Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:47:57 PM

Quote from: therealjcm on September 08, 2021, 01:40:41 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
The real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

If you start trying to track every mentally ill twatter who ever "sold" 10 copies of their pwyw supplement on drivethru then I think the list would lose some of its value. Maybe a requirement that they have at least a single copper bestseller before inclusion or some other criteria would be useful.

Yeah, there needs to be a minimum bar to keep it relevant.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Still Waiting for Erik Tenkar to be placed on the Red List for the "anti-consumer behavior" (which is specifically listed by the list's author as enough to keep one out of both the Green and Yellow Lists) of getting a product pulled from OBS for content he didn't like. As I pointed out earlier, Tenkar was called out vociferously on this very forum.

Also look how upset the SJWs are lol
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/On-The-Red-RPG-List-by-CogswellDesign/88048921.XNZKR

I need more information on Tenkar before putting him on the list i've seen conflicting information about him. Also that is freakin hilarious, thats like being proud your restaurant couldn't pass a health inspection and wearing it like a badge of honor. Big mad

It might be a situation where the company itself should be in the green or yellow but the creator is in the red, like Monte Cook. If Eric did do it and tries to make up for it then there should be a path for him to be taken off the red list.

On the other hand Tenkar is a blogger and not a publusher and I don't see a reason to put him on a list just for being an asshole. The list is meant to help consumers make informed decisions on what products to buy.

I may be missing something but why are/is the woke crowd upset? Why should they be upset by this list?

I mean they come right out and tell those they don't want money from. The companies  are some like Ziedhander (whatever you call/spell it). Why the reaction? If you tell people you don't want their money are the supposed to meekly shuffle off?

Sounds out of touch.

Personally, life would be a lot better if people just went their separate ways.

Quote from: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 02:22:09 PM
I may be missing something but why are the woke crowd upset?

I mean they come right out and tell those they don't want money from. Why the reaction? If you tell people you don't want their money are the supposed to meekly shuffle off?

Sounds out of touch.

I agree with your sentiment but this tangent of conversation has already happened earlier and it's gotten us way off topic before so we should probably discuss this kind of thing in a different forum.

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PMThe real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

Generally, you don't have to because the small creators are so explicit about their woke ideology, that's usually the only content in the game. Do you really need to point out that something like Thirsty Sword Lesbians is woke? Woke crap that is created to be woke crap is easy enough to spot, and easy enough to avoid.

I think the list is most useful for the companies that are stewards of existing franchises. I don't care if some nobody makes an RPG about adventurers in a wheel chair, I can when they make D&D wheelchair accessible in spite of decades of tradition and lore. I don't care if some nobody insults their fans on Twitter. I care when the stewards of my favorite RPG decide to insult their fans, making their decades of fandom worse than meaningless.

The dangers of wokeness is due to what it ruins - literally destroying properties that have gone strong for 40-50 years and now are nothing - not necessarily it being cloyingly obnoxious in and of itself.

Quote from: ArtemisWyrm on September 08, 2021, 02:23:32 PM

Quote from: Willmark on September 08, 2021, 02:22:09 PM
I may be missing something but why are the woke crowd upset?

I mean they come right out and tell those they don't want money from. Why the reaction? If you tell people you don't want their money are the supposed to meekly shuffle off?

Sounds out of touch.

EDIT: I see Pundits topi on that very thing.

I agree with your sentiment but this tangent of conversation has already happened earlier and it's gotten us way off topic before so we should probably discuss this kind of thing in a different forum.

Fair enough. I've only been following along here and there. I did see the topic pop up in TT at TBP.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Still Waiting for Erik Tenkar to be placed on the Red List for the "anti-consumer behavior" (which is specifically listed by the list's author as enough to keep one out of both the Green and Yellow Lists) of getting a product pulled from OBS for content he didn't like. As I pointed out earlier, Tenkar was called out vociferously on this very forum.

Also look how upset the SJWs are lol
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/On-The-Red-RPG-List-by-CogswellDesign/88048921.XNZKR

This thread started in a August, but the earliest review goes back to January. Seems a little sketchy that the site would apply reviews to other shirts to this new design.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:53:10 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:47:57 PM

Quote from: therealjcm on September 08, 2021, 01:40:41 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
The real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

If you start trying to track every mentally ill twatter who ever "sold" 10 copies of their pwyw supplement on drivethru then I think the list would lose some of its value. Maybe a requirement that they have at least a single copper bestseller before inclusion or some other criteria would be useful.

Yeah, there needs to be a minimum bar to keep it relevant.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Still Waiting for Erik Tenkar to be placed on the Red List for the "anti-consumer behavior" (which is specifically listed by the list's author as enough to keep one out of both the Green and Yellow Lists) of getting a product pulled from OBS for content he didn't like. As I pointed out earlier, Tenkar was called out vociferously on this very forum.

Also look how upset the SJWs are lol
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/On-The-Red-RPG-List-by-CogswellDesign/88048921.XNZKR

I need more information on Tenkar before putting him on the list i've seen conflicting information about him. Also that is freakin hilarious, thats like being proud your restaurant couldn't pass a health inspection and wearing it like a badge of honor. Big mad

Bro, I literally linked the thread on here where everyone was decrying his actions. You're not trying very hard. Here it is again. YOU made the list. YOU set the terms. Is "anti-consumer" behavior criteria for getting into the red list? If not, you need to edit what you wrote.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/acab-erik-karen-tavern-gets-obs-module-taken-down/

And here is Venger's blog post complaining about getting booted from Tenkar's Discord over, among other things, his "coming out" as trans-tentacle or whatever the fuck. How much evidence do you need? To the Red List with him!

https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2019/03/whats-opposite-of-humble.html

Sorry, its a long thread I forgot about it. I think at least for now, i'm not sure he should be in the guide because it's more of a blog/community and not an actual publisher or creator of rpgs. It was a bad take for sure, and as far as I can tell this isn't behavior he does regularly. He seems to attempt to be a neutral ground, which is something I applaud and am grateful for.

Anyway i'm still having doubts about not just being a sort of stamp of approval or greenlist of games rather than having a "naughty list" on there at all. Might be a bit late for that now either way.

Quote from: Squidi on September 08, 2021, 02:25:06 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PMThe real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

Generally, you don't have to because the small creators are so explicit about their woke ideology, that's usually the only content in the game. Do you really need to point out that something like Thirsty Sword Lesbians is woke? Woke crap that is created to be woke crap is easy enough to spot, and easy enough to avoid.

I think the list is most useful for the companies that are stewards of existing franchises. I don't care if some nobody makes an RPG about adventurers in a wheel chair, I can when they make D&D wheelchair accessible in spite of decades of tradition and lore. I don't care if some nobody insults their fans on Twitter. I care when the stewards of my favorite RPG decide to insult their fans, making their decades of fandom worse than meaningless.

The dangers of wokeness is due to what it ruins - literally destroying properties that have gone strong for 40-50 years and now are nothing - not necessarily it being cloyingly obnoxious in and of itself.

Only really touched it because they are with Evil Hat, otherwise yeah it  would have been something too small to really care about.

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 02:34:34 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:53:10 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:47:57 PM

Quote from: therealjcm on September 08, 2021, 01:40:41 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
The real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

If you start trying to track every mentally ill twatter who ever "sold" 10 copies of their pwyw supplement on drivethru then I think the list would lose some of its value. Maybe a requirement that they have at least a single copper bestseller before inclusion or some other criteria would be useful.

Yeah, there needs to be a minimum bar to keep it relevant.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Still Waiting for Erik Tenkar to be placed on the Red List for the "anti-consumer behavior" (which is specifically listed by the list's author as enough to keep one out of both the Green and Yellow Lists) of getting a product pulled from OBS for content he didn't like. As I pointed out earlier, Tenkar was called out vociferously on this very forum.

Also look how upset the SJWs are lol
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/On-The-Red-RPG-List-by-CogswellDesign/88048921.XNZKR

I need more information on Tenkar before putting him on the list i've seen conflicting information about him. Also that is freakin hilarious, thats like being proud your restaurant couldn't pass a health inspection and wearing it like a badge of honor. Big mad

Bro, I literally linked the thread on here where everyone was decrying his actions. You're not trying very hard. Here it is again. YOU made the list. YOU set the terms. Is "anti-consumer" behavior criteria for getting into the red list? If not, you need to edit what you wrote.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/acab-erik-karen-tavern-gets-obs-module-taken-down/

And here is Venger's blog post complaining about getting booted from Tenkar's Discord over, among other things, his "coming out" as trans-tentacle or whatever the fuck. How much evidence do you need? To the Red List with him!

https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2019/03/whats-opposite-of-humble.html

Sorry, its a long thread I forgot about it. I think at least for now, i'm not sure he should be in the guide because it's more of a blog/community and not an actual publisher or creator of rpgs. It was a bad take for sure, and as far as I can tell this isn't behavior he does regularly. He seems to attempt to be a neutral ground, which is something I applaud and am grateful for.

Wrong again. He wrote Swords & Wizardry: Continual Light. Let's get him on the list, your reluctance to hold him to the same standards as everyone else is telling. He seems to meet the criteria, what's the problem?

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 02:46:41 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 02:34:34 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:53:10 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:47:57 PM

Quote from: therealjcm on September 08, 2021, 01:40:41 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
The real question is though, do I include creators that are so small i doubt their own mothers even know they still exist?

If you start trying to track every mentally ill twatter who ever "sold" 10 copies of their pwyw supplement on drivethru then I think the list would lose some of its value. Maybe a requirement that they have at least a single copper bestseller before inclusion or some other criteria would be useful.

Yeah, there needs to be a minimum bar to keep it relevant.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 08, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Still Waiting for Erik Tenkar to be placed on the Red List for the "anti-consumer behavior" (which is specifically listed by the list's author as enough to keep one out of both the Green and Yellow Lists) of getting a product pulled from OBS for content he didn't like. As I pointed out earlier, Tenkar was called out vociferously on this very forum.

Also look how upset the SJWs are lol
https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/On-The-Red-RPG-List-by-CogswellDesign/88048921.XNZKR

I need more information on Tenkar before putting him on the list i've seen conflicting information about him. Also that is freakin hilarious, thats like being proud your restaurant couldn't pass a health inspection and wearing it like a badge of honor. Big mad

Bro, I literally linked the thread on here where everyone was decrying his actions. You're not trying very hard. Here it is again. YOU made the list. YOU set the terms. Is "anti-consumer" behavior criteria for getting into the red list? If not, you need to edit what you wrote.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/acab-erik-karen-tavern-gets-obs-module-taken-down/

And here is Venger's blog post complaining about getting booted from Tenkar's Discord over, among other things, his "coming out" as trans-tentacle or whatever the fuck. How much evidence do you need? To the Red List with him!

https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2019/03/whats-opposite-of-humble.html

Sorry, its a long thread I forgot about it. I think at least for now, i'm not sure he should be in the guide because it's more of a blog/community and not an actual publisher or creator of rpgs. It was a bad take for sure, and as far as I can tell this isn't behavior he does regularly. He seems to attempt to be a neutral ground, which is something I applaud and am grateful for.

Wrong again. He wrote Swords & Wizardry: Continual Light. Let's get him on the list, your reluctance to hold him to the same standards as everyone else is telling.

The claim is SJWs thrive on hypocrisy and now the jackasses putting this list together are using the tools of the enemy, but I've long known them to be hypocrites and too deluded to recognize it.

Reluctance is justified, because of one time he went full Karen? Fuckin please. I've tried to be as impartial is possible, i'm still human. And the only reason I even kept up a red category is because it seemed people here believed it was helpful. Are you just trying to be contrarian or do you have a point?

Greetings!

Geesus. All the whining cunts. Ocule should make more lists calling out the cock-sucking Liberal Marxists.

Just so the little bitches can cry and snivel some more.

Fucking morons. How many times doe it need to be explained to you? The List doesn't "Cancel" anyone. It doesn't tell anyone not to buy from X company. It simply provides a listing of companies and how political or not--they have been in marketing their games.

That is nothing like the Cancel Lists that the fucking SJW's have made for years.

So, no hypocrisy at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Kind of impressed I wasn't banned for my last post.

In any case, I have really soured on this "list."  The rhetoric surrounding it is just ridiculous and hyperbolic. These are RPG designers we are discussing.  They are not the Khmer Rouge. That's just as ridiculous and hurtful as when they call someone a "Nazi."

I think the best approach is to just play the games that excite our imaginations and not worry about the High School popularity games or who's being a prick to whom on Twitter.

You're never going to "win" the KulturKampf. It's a fools errand and a waste of time an energy.

Spend that time, energy and money on things that make you happy.

Quote from: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 03:03:52 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. All the whining cunts. Ocule should make more lists calling out the cock-sucking Liberal Marxists.

Just so the little bitches can cry and snivel some more.

Fucking morons. How many times doe it need to be explained to you? The List doesn't "Cancel" anyone. It doesn't tell anyone not to buy from X company. It simply provides a listing of companies and how political or not--they have been in marketing their games.

That is nothing like the Cancel Lists that the fucking SJW's have made for years.

So, no hypocrisy at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Your kind always lies and should never be believed.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 08, 2021, 03:10:07 PM

Quote from: SHARK on September 08, 2021, 03:03:52 PM
Greetings!

Geesus. All the whining cunts. Ocule should make more lists calling out the cock-sucking Liberal Marxists.

Just so the little bitches can cry and snivel some more.

Fucking morons. How many times doe it need to be explained to you? The List doesn't "Cancel" anyone. It doesn't tell anyone not to buy from X company. It simply provides a listing of companies and how political or not--they have been in marketing their games.

That is nothing like the Cancel Lists that the fucking SJW's have made for years.

So, no hypocrisy at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Your kind always lies and should never be believed.

Your kind? That's a bit presumptuous, and what might be meant by that? Particularly the gross generalization