Quote from: pawsplay on September 08, 2021, 04:32:32 AM
Is it possible to land on the Red list by being a full-on Nazi? People talk about "normal" gamers but I see a lot of right, far-right, and eccentric attitudes expressed in this thread that don't fly with "normal gamers" insofar as that's a thing. So I'm really wondering if being apolitical is the Green standard here, or if this is just a deck shuffle to really say right-wing, conservative, or retrograde politics.
Oh, and thank you, posters with less than 10 posts, for showing up and registering to post the absolute worst takes on everything.

I +1 for putting something like Myfarog in the red list yes. It's political propaganda and it's just as racist and discriminatory as that Lesbian Sword something that is such a hype now.

edit: also that Racial Holy War RPG while we're discussing political propaganda in RPGs.

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 08, 2021, 07:58:24 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 08, 2021, 04:32:32 AM
Is it possible to land on the Red list by being a full-on Nazi? People talk about "normal" gamers but I see a lot of right, far-right, and eccentric attitudes expressed in this thread that don't fly with "normal gamers" insofar as that's a thing. So I'm really wondering if being apolitical is the Green standard here, or if this is just a deck shuffle to really say right-wing, conservative, or retrograde politics.
Oh, and thank you, posters with less than 10 posts, for showing up and registering to post the absolute worst takes on everything.

I and Ocule have touched upon this subject a bit. Basically, I suggested that we separate the neutral/undecided/unknown and anti-SJW list as well as the SJW and alt-right list. The only people on the Anti-SJW list would be the people who have explicitly stated that they are opposed to SJWs, not the people that we suspect of being anti-SJWs. I have also listed a couple of more names for the neutral list as well as a couple of names for the hypothetical alt-right list. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard back from Ocule regarding this idea. Hopefully, he sees this post.

It's a terrible idea. If the list is to maintain any fairness, it needs to address bad actors, not political alignments. Red should be those who exclude, not just those who are the Sharp Point on Political Axis X. Green should be the companies who welcome anyone of any political stripe, as long as they meet some basic standards of decency.

Myfarog guy should definitely be red.

LOL, I see TBP noticed the Red List.

Oh, and we're a 'hate site'.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 08:28:45 AM
LOL, I see TBP noticed the Red List.

Oh, and we're a 'hate site'.

Which part is it on? I don't fancy trawling through that leprous miasma of dweeps.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 08:35:27 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 08:28:45 AM
LOL, I see TBP noticed the Red List.

Oh, and we're a 'hate site'.

Which part is it on? I don't fancy trawling through that leprous miasma of dweeps.

The original thread got killed almost instantly (I wonder if TBP's forum software 'scans' for wrongthink links?) here: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/why-do-antisjws-complain-about-niche-games-they-will-never-play.886481/

A trouble ticket requesting permission to discuss it without linking to us dirty proles got started as well:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-it-ok-to-discuss-the-ttrpg-red-list.886560/

EDIT: The first linked post annoys me and I just realized why. From said post:

QuoteLike it's bad enough they claim that sjws are taking over their favorite games...except their is noting stopping them from house rulling and they don't have to play games that are pretty niche

I don't know if this person is just retarded or arguing in bad faith. Some of the red names on the list are not exactly fucking niche. Paizo and WotC in particular would be cause for concern, considering their 'footprint'.

Well, it's always been SJW policy that everything they are doing is best for everyone and only a rabid Hitler neanderthal would disagree, while their sycophants insist that everything that they are doing isn't happening and wouldn't be important even if it were.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 07, 2021, 11:12:34 PM
Excellent, and your list can also help provide me and other SJW folks the same benefit, as you're providing a list of games made by people who hate us and which ones don't.

The irony of this statement is that the people on the green list are more likely to just not care one way or the other about you other than wanting to provide you with a good gaming product, and the people in red are still likely to hate you for not fitting 100% into their orthodoxy.

Quote from: Pat on September 08, 2021, 08:04:57 AM

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 08, 2021, 07:58:24 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 08, 2021, 04:32:32 AM
Is it possible to land on the Red list by being a full-on Nazi? People talk about "normal" gamers but I see a lot of right, far-right, and eccentric attitudes expressed in this thread that don't fly with "normal gamers" insofar as that's a thing. So I'm really wondering if being apolitical is the Green standard here, or if this is just a deck shuffle to really say right-wing, conservative, or retrograde politics.
Oh, and thank you, posters with less than 10 posts, for showing up and registering to post the absolute worst takes on everything.

I and Ocule have touched upon this subject a bit. Basically, I suggested that we separate the neutral/undecided/unknown and anti-SJW list as well as the SJW and alt-right list. The only people on the Anti-SJW list would be the people who have explicitly stated that they are opposed to SJWs, not the people that we suspect of being anti-SJWs. I have also listed a couple of more names for the neutral list as well as a couple of names for the hypothetical alt-right list. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard back from Ocule regarding this idea. Hopefully, he sees this post.

It's a terrible idea. If the list is to maintain any fairness, it needs to address bad actors, not political alignments. Red should be those who exclude, not just those who are the Sharp Point on Political Axis X. Green should be the companies who welcome anyone of any political stripe, as long as they meet some basic standards of decency.

Myfarog guy should definitely be red.

Sorry comments are hard to keep up with, this thread is so active. I was thinking about this for the past few days and I agree, I'm going to add MyFarog and a the judges guild guy to red. The guide should encompass overall practices as a buyers guide. Like a buyers beware this will involve changing some of the language I initially used to categorize the various entities. Of course the spiel of "if you don't like our politics or voted for x don't buy our games" will still be categorized as red. Yellow should be a bit more defined as well.

New definitions might shift some of the yellows around as well to either green or red. Though I predict mostly towards green. My goal is to make it so only an absolute tard could possibly mistake it for a hate list or black list

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 08:37:39 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 08, 2021, 08:35:27 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 08, 2021, 08:28:45 AM
LOL, I see TBP noticed the Red List.

Oh, and we're a 'hate site'.

Which part is it on? I don't fancy trawling through that leprous miasma of dweeps.

The original thread got killed almost instantly (I wonder if TBP's forum software 'scans' for wrongthink links?) here: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/why-do-antisjws-complain-about-niche-games-they-will-never-play.886481/

A trouble ticket requesting permission to discuss it without linking to us dirty proles got started as well:
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/is-it-ok-to-discuss-the-ttrpg-red-list.886560/

EDIT: The first linked post annoys me and I just realized why. From said post:

QuoteLike it's bad enough they claim that sjws are taking over their favorite games...except their is noting stopping them from house rulling and they don't have to play games that are pretty niche

I don't know if this person is just retarded or arguing in bad faith. Some of the red names on the list are not exactly fucking niche. Paizo and WotC in particular would be cause for concern, considering their 'footprint'.

Ta' very much!

As far as I know there isn't a list of "hate sites" at TBP that users are forbidden linking to. PLT at may be why the poster didn't catch a ban. However, if TBP is now identifying some gaming sites as hate sites I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking into doing a purge of their members that are also members here under their rule 0. If they can ban a member for working for ICE I don't see what stops them from banning folks who are members here.

Quote from: wmarshal on September 08, 2021, 09:26:51 AM
I don't see what stops them from banning folks who are members here.

I'm sure they would. Although, most of us here are banned from there already. 

Kobold Press is listed both in the Green and the Red. I think the red is the correct section, right?

Art of the Genre, the makers of The Folio Series should be in the Green too.

Quote from: VhaidraSaga on September 08, 2021, 09:38:30 AM
Kobold Press is listed both in the Green and the Red. I think the red is the correct section, right?

Art of the Genre, the makers of The Folio Series should be in the Green too.

They should not be on the google doc I think it's just the first page I'll be updating that soon.



Also as a general announcement I'm working on the master  document today and hopefully have it up. I'm working on the language and being more clear on the criteria for each category as well as a statement of intent up front

Quote from: Ocule on September 08, 2021, 09:59:49 AM

Quote from: VhaidraSaga on September 08, 2021, 09:38:30 AM
Kobold Press is listed both in the Green and the Red. I think the red is the correct section, right?

Art of the Genre, the makers of The Folio Series should be in the Green too.

They should not be on the google doc I think it's just the first page I'll be updating that soon.

Also as a general announcement I'm working on the master  document today and hopefully have it up. I'm working on the language and being more clear on the criteria for each category as well as a statement of intent up front

You're doing the lord's work my friend.

Just a quick query about the list.

How do you handle a situation where you dislike an rpg's creator, for his public and toxic woke insanity but think the company, that could be publishing several different creators, is actually okay (AKA - not woke)?

How do you guys think that should be handled? Do you think there's a point to calling out specific product lines - If created by that toxic/woke person who is detrimental to the hobby as a whole?

Interested to hear your thoughts, Ta'.