Pundit just did a thing on WotC inventing new classes like the Chronic Fatigue Barbarian who makes people and monsters tired with psionic powers from a wheel chair. I don't even know what to say to that so...it's MS paint catharsis time.



We need a new section called RED AF or maybe INFRARED, where it's so red that you can't even see it. So damned red that Gary is gonna come back and wap some mothereffers right in the shins with a shovel before this is over.

Quote from: oggsmash on August 30, 2021, 05:08:19 PM

Quote from: WayneThePayne on August 30, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
I get that the political video was cringe

I can accept them removing the video to be honest,

This video was meant to be part of a sequence of satirical videos, making fun of the current political situation. After someone took the whole thing, way to seriously, they cancelled it. I think they took the "Never explain, never complain" stance, after seeing the mess on rpgnet and just removed it instead. TDM is completely unpolitical and after the joke went wrong, I doubt they will even try overt satire again.

They should be in the Green part of the list.

Quote from: zincmoat on September 02, 2021, 06:05:02 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 30, 2021, 05:08:19 PM

Quote from: WayneThePayne on August 30, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
I get that the political video was cringe

I can accept them removing the video to be honest,

This video was meant to be part of a sequence of satirical videos, making fun of the current political situation. After someone took the whole thing, way to seriously, they cancelled it. I think they took the "Never explain, never complain" stance, after seeing the mess on rpgnet and just removed it instead. TDM is completely unpolitical and after the joke went wrong, I doubt they will even try overt satire again.

They should be in the Green part of the list.

  Judging from the things I have from them, I would agree. 

Quote from: oggsmash on September 02, 2021, 09:29:20 AM

Quote from: zincmoat on September 02, 2021, 06:05:02 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 30, 2021, 05:08:19 PM

Quote from: WayneThePayne on August 30, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
I get that the political video was cringe

I can accept them removing the video to be honest,

This video was meant to be part of a sequence of satirical videos, making fun of the current political situation. After someone took the whole thing, way to seriously, they cancelled it. I think they took the "Never explain, never complain" stance, after seeing the mess on rpgnet and just removed it instead. TDM is completely unpolitical and after the joke went wrong, I doubt they will even try overt satire again.

They should be in the Green part of the list.

  Judging from the things I have from them, I would agree.

All good points, and glad to hear it. I moved them from red to green in the google doc, with an explanation for their move. I am glad to hear it because the idea of the Mythras and Mythic Earth settings looks amazing.

From the RTG exiting GenCon thread... I'm curious about the geographic distribution of the various companies. For example, while GenCon happens in Indianapolis, it's actual offices are in, you guessed it, Seattle.

I'm going to actually take a look and will report my findings, but my hypothesis is that the majority of green companies have their headquarters outside the Seattle ecosystem while most of the red/yellow ones are going to actually be headquartered near the Seattle area (or a similar extremely woke bastion).

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 02, 2021, 10:34:55 AM
I'm going to actually take a look and will report my findings, but my hypothesis is that the majority of green companies have their headquarters outside the Seattle ecosystem while most of the red/yellow ones are going to actually be headquartered near the Seattle area (or a similar extremely woke bastion).

   WotC, Paizo, and Green Ronin are all Seattleites, of course, while Fred Hicks of Evil Hat, at least, is in the DC Metro area.

I don't think Games Workshop should be in the red. Yellow, at most. Their primary woke sin was that "Warhammer is for everybody, but you" post that their community team posted to twitter, but they soft walked that back a few weeks later and never mentioned it again. Woke companies double down in the face of criticism, not back down. I believe they even mentioned in an investor phone call that they have no diversity initiatives in hiring, and that merit is the primary focus.

There's other stuff, but it is mostly minor. An increase in racial and gender diversity in their models, and a couple Black Library authors pulling some pronoun shenanigans. Their reboot of the Sisters of Battle turned the Repentia into a gang of unruly soccer moms. But generally speaking, most of it is fairly benign - a tendency towards woke, but never quite crossing the line fully into a company that wishes you dead (outside that Warhammer isn't for everybody post). You'll know they are too far gone when the female space marines arrive and them calling anybody against it a sexist.

That being said, GW is about as sleazy as they come in other ways. But thinking GW is a blight on the industry is different than them being woke. Maybe just remove them from the list altogether, except with a footnote:

* Games Workshop - here there be dragons.

Quote from: Squidi on September 02, 2021, 12:55:23 PM
I don't think Games Workshop should be in the red. Yellow, at most. Their primary woke sin was that "Warhammer is for everybody, but you" post that their community team posted to twitter, but they soft walked that back a few weeks later and never mentioned it again. Woke companies double down in the face of criticism, not back down. I believe they even mentioned in an investor phone call that they have no diversity initiatives in hiring, and that merit is the primary focus.

There's other stuff, but it is mostly minor. An increase in racial and gender diversity in their models, and a couple Black Library authors pulling some pronoun shenanigans. Their reboot of the Sisters of Battle turned the Repentia into a gang of unruly soccer moms. But generally speaking, most of it is fairly benign - a tendency towards woke, but never quite crossing the line fully into a company that wishes you dead (outside that Warhammer isn't for everybody post). You'll know they are too far gone when the female space marines arrive and them calling anybody against it a sexist.

That being said, GW is about as sleazy as they come in other ways. But thinking GW is a blight on the industry is different than them being woke. Maybe just remove them from the list altogether, except with a footnote:

* Games Workshop - here there be dragons.

Good point, yeah they are bad for other reasons than the few woke points they tried to score, like warhammer is for everybody but you or warhammer adventures. They might be better off as a footnote or removed all together.


Does anyone know about Luke Crane and Burning Wheel? Or any more on Ars Magicka and Atlas Games? I remember there was some drama with Luke Crane but I dont remember what it was about

Quote from: Ocule on September 02, 2021, 01:52:23 PM

Does anyone know about Luke Crane and Burning Wheel? Or any more on Ars Magicka and Atlas Games? I remember there was some drama with Luke Crane but I dont remember what it was about

Crane flat out said that anyone who wasn't in 100% agreement with Anita Sarkeesian on the "Gamers Gate" thing as verboten on their forums and welcome to never buy their games. 

I don't know how pervasively woke they are, but they are way down the male feminist rat hole.  Draw your own guess from that.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 02, 2021, 02:08:39 PM
Crane flat out said that anyone who wasn't in 100% agreement with Anita Sarkeesian on the "Gamers Gate" thing as verboten on their forums and welcome to never buy their games.

I don't have the slightest clue about that whole gamer gate shit (I'm not really into video games per se).

But anyone who supports that cabbage Sarkeesian should be red listed regardless of gamer gate imo. As she's not a feminist by it's true definition. in fact she's completely one sided towards women. A true feminist would seek 'parity' and not favor one or the other. Read a dictionary Anita!

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 02, 2021, 02:08:39 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 02, 2021, 01:52:23 PM

Does anyone know about Luke Crane and Burning Wheel? Or any more on Ars Magicka and Atlas Games? I remember there was some drama with Luke Crane but I dont remember what it was about

Crane flat out said that anyone who wasn't in 100% agreement with Anita Sarkeesian on the "Gamers Gate" thing as verboten on their forums and welcome to never buy their games. 

I don't know how pervasively woke they are, but they are way down the male feminist rat hole.  Draw your own guess from that.

Damn, I wish I could find it. Any screenshots, archives or links to it? I believe you but it adds more credibility if it's linkable

Quote from: Ocule on September 02, 2021, 02:17:40 PM
Damn, I wish I could find it. Any screenshots, archives or links to it? I believe you but it adds more credibility if it's linkable

Nope.  I was already a bit miffed at them because they messed up my account and I couldn't download the errata for Torchbearer that was part of what I paid for.  In the midst of trying to straighten that out and getting no response, they launched that bombshell.  I walked away and never even clicked to look again.  Knew that I would never buy anything from them again.

And I generally like most of their games (though I don't know anyone else that I want to play them with, so kind of academic).

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 02, 2021, 02:08:39 PM
I don't know how pervasively woke they are, but they are way down the male feminist rat hole.

Isn't that kind of the definition of pervasively woke?

Damn i just added Luke Crane to red, more digging I was able to find an interview  with Anita and Luke Crane, a bunch of selfies and testimonials. I enjoyed reading burning wheel gold, but gotta say my experience with it was just cancer. I recruited some people off of the burning wheel forums to play over skype and have someone show me the game. We got a small group together and began, alot of things happened that showed parts of the system way better in theory than in practice.

We built our setting as recommended in the burning wheel books, collaboratively and I sort of steered in it the direction I wanted to play which ended up being some weird mix of elements from dragon age origins and Merlin (tv series from BBC). It took one session for a player with a dice roll to hijack the whole premise of a rebellion to be about feminism. Yes, an entire rebellion for equal rights in the middle ages. I openly told them I really did not want to play in that kind of setting and they went with it anyway. I dropped from the game after like 2 more sessions of trying to steer it back but it became pretty clear to me that she was too busy in her clam fantasy to think of anyone else who has to actually sit there with her. Also should mention, it wasn't earth so it was never actually established that women were oppressed in any way so that was entirely her doing.

But yeah anything i'm surprised anyone actually gives that fuck the time of day, much less invites her as a guest of honor to a con.

Quote from: Squidi on September 02, 2021, 02:29:22 PM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on September 02, 2021, 02:08:39 PM
I don't know how pervasively woke they are, but they are way down the male feminist rat hole.

Isn't that kind of the definition of pervasively woke?

There is a high correlation, yes.  It's not automatic though.  I've known a handful of radical feminists (female and male) that were particularly extreme on that point but pretty normal and reasonable otherwise (on economics, politics, etc.).  I didn't agree with their principle, but they did, in fact, have consistent, understandable principles that they stuck to.  Being woke requires a level of cognitive dissonance that makes that impossible.

Which brings up a related point to a lot of the games listed in the "yellow" category".  They may or may not be woke.  What they lack is principles and the courage to stick to them.