Quote from: Gameogre on August 22, 2021, 09:53:58 AM
It's wanting to kill people that gets you gets you on the list.

Again, I agree with not buying products from a-holes who hate you. Makes sense to me... Fuck 'em in the eye.

But as for being 'seriously threatened' by some of those RPG dweebs, it's all just a load of hot air. Fuck them as well though.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 22, 2021, 09:28:51 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 22, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
I personally wouldn't consider anti Trump sentiments a viable reason not to buy a product. I'm more against the overly politically correct and the brow beating of, 'you must play our way', and the censorship of art, etc.

The list isn't there to tell you what to buy, or what not to buy.  The list is there to tell you if the crators of a specific game hate you and want to see you put in camps or killed. 

You make your own decisions.

Regarding TDS: as others have stated, it's not about Trump so much as banning people who supported or voted for him.  It is a political attack.  So those companies that do that should get listed as Red.  Also cons and other game forums, like This one:

https://mashable.com/article/rpgnet-forum-bans-trump-support?amp

What a fucking load of nonsense.  The "hate you and want to see you killed" is moronic fear mongering designed to sway idiots (and it seems to gain a lot of traction here). What this list really does is allow posters to virtue signal, just like those on the other side do. It's all rather pathetic tribalism among basement dwellers.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 22, 2021, 09:48:28 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 22, 2021, 09:28:51 AM
The list is there to tell you if the crators of a specific game hate you and want to see you put in camps or killed. 

You make your own decisions.

A tad hyperbolic, imo. But I'm glad the list exists, I mean, I don't want to spend any more money with assholes or people who want to control what you can and can't enjoy or are pro censorship.

This is a more reasonable take on it, but I think it undertakes the hyperbole and also fails to recognize that many of those pushing things into the list also want to control what other can and can't enjoy (even as they try the Tucker Carlson dance of "I'm just saying/asking...make up your own mind" they slant the fuck out of it for their own tribe).

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 03:27:44 PM
What a fucking load of nonsense.  The "hate you and want to see you killed" is moronic fear mongering designed to sway idiots

This!

I agree... I very much doubt there's a bunch of RPG dweebs coming to 'get you'. Sure, they kick up a stink on twitter, or may try and cancel you, and call on a company to censor a product. But you just stand firm, write the games you want, and play shit your own way.

And sod anyone else who tries to force you into their way of woke gaming.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 03:27:44 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 22, 2021, 09:28:51 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 22, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
I personally wouldn't consider anti Trump sentiments a viable reason not to buy a product. I'm more against the overly politically correct and the brow beating of, 'you must play our way', and the censorship of art, etc.

The list isn't there to tell you what to buy, or what not to buy.  The list is there to tell you if the crators of a specific game hate you and want to see you put in camps or killed. 

You make your own decisions.

Regarding TDS: as others have stated, it's not about Trump so much as banning people who supported or voted for him.  It is a political attack.  So those companies that do that should get listed as Red.  Also cons and other game forums, like This one:

https://mashable.com/article/rpgnet-forum-bans-trump-support?amp

What a fucking load of nonsense.  The "hate you and want to see you killed" is moronic fear mongering designed to sway idiots (and it seems to gain a lot of traction here). What this list really does is allow posters to virtue signal, just like those on the other side do. It's all rather pathetic tribalism among basement dwellers.

It used to be "Story gamers are going to destroy society!" lists before that got so pathetic nobody could pretend it was a threat anymore. So now it's SJW gamers. Eventually that fad will fade too, people will "declare victory" though almost nobody will have been influenced by their rantings, and the next boogeyman will arise.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 03:30:41 PM
they slant the fuck out of it for their own

I think that's a fair assumption. However, that said, I'm naturally skeptical of pretty much everything. So while this list will certainly point the finger at certain companies. I will be the final arbiter whether I buy from them or not despite the 'color'.

Also, I have my own personal criteria of what I will and won't buy (which I mentioned with the whole Trump thing originally). If any of those companies tick my boxes then I won't touch them with an asbestos glove. Evil Hat is a good example, and a shame really as I like a lot of their stuff and I've bought a lot of it too in the past. But Hicks is an obnoxious individual, so no more money from me (I doubt they will care of course).

Again, I don't care about a companies political leanings. It's the woke part in games I don't like (and censorship, etc.). I'm obviously highly skeptical about the RPG dweebs and their supposed Pogrom.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 22, 2021, 03:33:43 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 03:27:44 PM
What a fucking load of nonsense.  The "hate you and want to see you killed" is moronic fear mongering designed to sway idiots

This!

I agree... I very much doubt there's a bunch of RPG dweebs coming to 'get you'. Sure, they kick up a stink on twitter, or may try and cancel you, and call on a company to censor a product. But you just stand firm, write the games you want, and play shit your own way.

And sod anyone else who tries to force you into their way of woke gaming.

Is it nonsense considering a lot of these morons will actually tell you this.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 03:27:44 PM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 22, 2021, 09:28:51 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 22, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
I personally wouldn't consider anti Trump sentiments a viable reason not to buy a product. I'm more against the overly politically correct and the brow beating of, 'you must play our way', and the censorship of art, etc.

The list isn't there to tell you what to buy, or what not to buy.  The list is there to tell you if the crators of a specific game hate you and want to see you put in camps or killed. 

You make your own decisions.

Regarding TDS: as others have stated, it's not about Trump so much as banning people who supported or voted for him.  It is a political attack.  So those companies that do that should get listed as Red.  Also cons and other game forums, like This one:

https://mashable.com/article/rpgnet-forum-bans-trump-support?amp

What a fucking load of nonsense.  The "hate you and want to see you killed" is moronic fear mongering designed to sway idiots (and it seems to gain a lot of traction here). What this list really does is allow posters to virtue signal, just like those on the other side do. It's all rather pathetic tribalism among basement dwellers.

Idc what people do with it I started it so myself and others don't get duped into buying into a game only to regret it later. And thanks to building this list I found some games that I probably wouldn't have found like ACKS, which after a quick read is an awesome game. There are a few others that I just wouldn't have heard of over the big companies. Or not buying into evil hat products like the Dresden files only to probably
Find myself banned from fate communities unable to find games. Or like a wotc where I stopped buying their new trash effectively ending the line for myself. Or knowing if I buy like tashas it's gonna be full of woke bullshit

Quote from: Ocule on August 22, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
like a wotc where I stopped buying their new trash effectively ending the line for myself. Or knowing if I buy like tashas it's gonna be full of woke bullshit

Totally agree. Not that I'd buy anything from Wotc.

But the list, imo is a good starting point of who not to do business with.

LOL at the Kool Aid drinkers in this thread warning about the dangers of us following the crowd.  If they didn't have "see, your side does it, too!", they'd have nothing to say...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
LOL at the Kool Aid drinkers in this thread warning about the dangers of us following the crowd.  If they didn't have "see, your side does it, too!", they'd have nothing to say...

Well, before that I called you a swayed idiot that buries his head in the asses of fear mongers, but I'm sure you're in full denial on that.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 07:47:40 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
LOL at the Kool Aid drinkers in this thread warning about the dangers of us following the crowd.  If they didn't have "see, your side does it, too!", they'd have nothing to say...

Well, before that I called you a swayed idiot that buries his head in the asses of fear mongers, but I'm sure you're in full denial on that.

Cry more, please!  It's the hit dog that yelps.  If you can't see the difference between people refusing to patronize companies that explicitly tell them "not to buy if they have X belief" and people who are trying to convince others to actively destroy the businesses of those who don't sufficiently parrot the woke that they believe, then I think everyone here can tell exactly how much weight to give your opinion on anything.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2021, 08:09:41 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2021, 07:47:40 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
LOL at the Kool Aid drinkers in this thread warning about the dangers of us following the crowd.  If they didn't have "see, your side does it, too!", they'd have nothing to say...

Well, before that I called you a swayed idiot that buries his head in the asses of fear mongers, but I'm sure you're in full denial on that.

Cry more, please!  It's the hit dog that yelps.  If you can't see the difference between people refusing to patronize companies that explicitly tell them "not to buy if they have X belief" and people who are trying to convince others to actively destroy the businesses of those who don't sufficiently parrot the woke that they believe, then I think everyone here can tell exactly how much weight to give your opinion on anything.

It's sad that you consider yourself to be a hit dog.

Quote from: Ocule on August 22, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
Or knowing if I buy like tashas it's gonna be full of woke bullshit

Maybe we have very different tolerance for bullshit, but "full of woke bullshit" feels like a massive exaggeration to me. Or are we triggered by the word "trigger"?
Looking in Tasha's, which is 192 pages, I'm hardly finding any wokeness:

• Are we considering allowing PCs to change racial ability score increases (pg 7) "woke"? I don't like it, it doesn't fit the kind of game I want to play, but it is very clearly motivated with "PCs are exceptional individuals who don't have to conform to the racial archetypes at all". The race still has those archetypes.
• Ditto allowing PCs to change languages or cultural proficiencies (pg 7) or personality (pg , although both ought to be changed if you're running in a thickly-detailed world.
• Chapter 4 talks about Session Zero, so there's encouragement to explicitly discuss hard & soft limits on pg 141. I suspect some of the posters on here would find a couple of those paragraphs overly solicitous of player concerns.
  

That's everything I can find?

Personally, I'm not offended by any of that, even though I don't want to use all of them; I'm far more offended by the wastes of space from poor editing and from a house style that seems to be aimed at readers instead of gamers. There are far more pages spent on Artificers - 15! - or various sub-classes who don't fit into most of the game-worlds I want to run, than on overwritten restatements of "PCs might not be normal" or "you should plan the kind of game your players want to play".

Page 4: "Everything in this book is optional. Each group, guided by the DM, decides which of these options, if any, to incorporate into a campaign."

Quote from: Naburimannu on August 23, 2021, 04:39:50 AM

Quote from: Ocule on August 22, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
Or knowing if I buy like tashas it's gonna be full of woke bullshit

Maybe we have very different tolerance for bullshit, but "full of woke bullshit" feels like a massive exaggeration to me. Or are we triggered by the word "trigger"?
Looking in Tasha's, which is 192 pages, I'm hardly finding any wokeness:

• Are we considering allowing PCs to change racial ability score increases (pg 7) "woke"? I don't like it, it doesn't fit the kind of game I want to play, but it is very clearly motivated with "PCs are exceptional individuals who don't have to conform to the racial archetypes at all". The race still has those archetypes.
• Ditto allowing PCs to change languages or cultural proficiencies (pg 7) or personality (pg , although both ought to be changed if you're running in a thickly-detailed world.
• Chapter 4 talks about Session Zero, so there's encouragement to explicitly discuss hard & soft limits on pg 141. I suspect some of the posters on here would find a couple of those paragraphs overly solicitous of player concerns.
  

That's everything I can find?

Personally, I'm not offended by any of that, even though I don't want to use all of them; I'm far more offended by the wastes of space from poor editing and from a house style that seems to be aimed at readers instead of gamers. There are far more pages spent on Artificers - 15! - or various sub-classes who don't fit into most of the game-worlds I want to run, than on overwritten restatements of "PCs might not be normal" or "you should plan the kind of game your players want to play".

Page 4: "Everything in this book is optional. Each group, guided by the DM, decides which of these options, if any, to incorporate into a campaign."

Greetings!

Interesting. "A house style that seems to be aimed at readers instead of gamers." What ways does WOTC do this with the Tasha book?

Of course, I also wonder why the designers are then catering to the perceived audience of *readers* instead of *Gamers*.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Naburimannu on August 23, 2021, 04:39:50 AM

• Are we considering allowing PCs to change racial ability score increases (pg 7) "woke"?

Yes, because they think race stats mods is racial essentialism = racist. That's why they changed it, same as they got rid of racial alignments.