Quote from: RPGPundit on August 20, 2021, 07:36:15 AM
Ocule, you should probably update the first post whenever you update the list. Make it easier for quick reference.

What about pinning this list?

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 20, 2021, 07:36:15 AM
Ocule, you should probably update the first post whenever you update the list. Make it easier for quick reference.

I wanted to but for some reason I can't. I think there might be a seven day timer on the ability to edit posts or something but that seemed to be it

Can confirm there's definitely a time limit on editing posts. I went back to test it with a post from last month and the 'modify' button is not present.

Quote from: Reckall on August 20, 2021, 06:11:47 AM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 12:52:18 AM
Since the topic of Cthulhu mythos games came up, I would put Arc Dream as yellow tbh. Aside from the tirade against Trump and "authoritarian populism" in the Delta Green Handler's Guide, and them including an "other" category in sex on the DG character sheet

I have no problems with "other", mostly because it is a personal choice that I can respect, not to mention something I feel "belonging" to the DG universe... But... Trump??

I got my DG books literally two days ago. They were still in their (*) slipcase. After your post I pulled out the Handler's Guide and I read the tirade against the Big T. What were they thinking? I sometimes like to have bits of political debate in my CoC games set in the 1920s, just to enhance the flavour of the era, but contemporary politics have no place in a RPG.

Quote
(honestly I think they should've just left 2016 and beyond out of the book, but whatever).

Same here. To me, the cut-off in DG should be 2015.

(*) They are transgender books of course.

While the cutoff should have been 2015, if they continued the timeline (as I know some of the DG scenarios in the new books happen in 2017/2018) they honestly should've either did what they did with Obama and put little info, or just have someone that doesn't exist in it. On the flip side, I understand to a point including all of that because a lot of DG characters tend to work in intelligence.

I also would not have included the last thing about Infowars in the book, because to me phenomen-x is basically the DG canon equivalent so it wasn't necessary

Quote from: Reckall on August 20, 2021, 07:29:36 AM

Quote from: S'mon on August 20, 2021, 04:39:58 AM
Re HPL, his own paranoid racism, with non-Anglos exuding a kind of Miasma of Evil, is extremely reminiscent of modern CRT, where Anglos exude a kind of Miasma of Evil. Hollywood has been doing this for a while - the white Southerners in Mississippi Burning aren't a million miles from Innsmouth's fishy folk, contrasted with the film's beatific black characters & HPL's pure Anglo-Aryan Investigator types.

The "complexity" of Lovecraft's racism (and xenophobia - something that, for some reason, is always forgotten) is the very point that SJWs hysterically refuse to tackle. And yet you can't escape from the fact that the Jews aren't bothered by HPL's anti-semitism. Why? Because any objective analysis shows HPL as someone born in a specific cultural milieu, with the fears of that milieu amplified by his own neurosis; but also someone that, across his life, showed a desire to find his own identity - and who over and over, acted against that "racist" label so easily attributed to him.

Regarding "HPL's pure Anglo-Aryan Investigator types" remember how they always end up insane, or dead, or both. The main character in "The Mask of Innsmouth" doesn't even fit this description. But these characters, more often than not, are simply vessels for HPL to narrate his story. One could even say that HPL always used the same character: himself. And that nothing more should be read from that.

And then, in a period of deep spiritual growth, HPL produces stories like "The Haunter of the Dark" where is the "pure Anglo-Aryan Investigator" that acts out of hubris and gets nuked, and the "poor Italo-Irish Catholic community" the smart ones. And HPL writes this while kickstarting the career of a young Robert Block - a Jew.

Lovecraft died still young while amid a period of personal growth - a sort of positive mid-life crisis, if such term can be used. It's a pity that we will never know how it would have been ended for him.

Yeah, that's all fair comment of course. I was caricaturing HPL a bit in order to rag on Hollywood,  . I stick with my Miasma of Evil comment though, several HPL stories share with modern CRT the idea that the mere presence of the Evil Race(s) brings with it a sort of spiritual pollution. The Street - https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/s.aspx

If I may (I have just created an account to do that), I do not understand in the case of Arc Dream Publishing why having published a sole paragraph "critizing" the Trump Administration, in the context of a summary of various past US governments, qualifies you as being pro-woke.

• Arc Knight Publishing (Delta Green) Delta Green Handlers guide has a whole section on Trump. They are actually more hostile to Trump than actual historical nazis.

First, the publisher has been listed as "Arc Knight", demonstrating that the guy who wrote this rant has probably no idea of what he is talking about.

Second, I am copy/pasting the passage in question:

» 20 JAN 2017: Donald J. Trump is inaugurated as president of the Unit- ed States. Controversies immediately surround the Trump administra- tion: the flagrant dishonesty of Trump and his staff, the degree to which White House decision-making may be influenced by and affect Trump's family and businesses, the influence and administration roles of Blackwater founder Erik Prince and his family, Trump's seeming fondness for authoritarian leaders, FBI and congressional investi- gations of the Trump campaign's and administration's reported links to the Russian government, and so on. As the White House formulates plans to reduce the funding and activities of most non-military fed- eral agencies, leaks to the press and social media become more and more frequent. The Program maintains its longstanding policy of not briefing the incoming president or vice president on its activities unless absolutely necessary.

It may be a little charged against the Trump administration, but most of it, if not all, is factually true.

So my suggestion is to remove Arc Dream Publishing, until further notice, specially considering there is absolutely nothing relating to woke-ism here, as apparently MAGA diehards are deliberately trying to settle some score here by blurring the lines.

I do not support neither Trump nor woke pandering from companies, and do not want those two things to be inappropriately confused.

Quote from: stilgars on August 20, 2021, 10:41:05 AM
If I may (I have just created an account to do that), I do not understand in the case of Arc Dream Publishing why having published a sole paragraph "critizing" the Trump Administration, in the context of a summary of various past US governments, qualifies you as being pro-woke.

• Arc Knight Publishing (Delta Green) Delta Green Handlers guide has a whole section on Trump. They are actually more hostile to Trump than actual historical nazis.

First, the publisher has been listed as "Arc Knight", demonstrating that the guy who wrote this rant has probably no idea of what he is talking about.

Second, I am copy/pasting the passage in question:

» 20 JAN 2017: Donald J. Trump is inaugurated as president of the Unit- ed States. Controversies immediately surround the Trump administra- tion: the flagrant dishonesty of Trump and his staff, the degree to which White House decision-making may be influenced by and affect Trump's family and businesses, the influence and administration roles of Blackwater founder Erik Prince and his family, Trump's seeming fondness for authoritarian leaders, FBI and congressional investi- gations of the Trump campaign's and administration's reported links to the Russian government, and so on. As the White House formulates plans to reduce the funding and activities of most non-military fed- eral agencies, leaks to the press and social media become more and more frequent. The Program maintains its longstanding policy of not briefing the incoming president or vice president on its activities unless absolutely necessary.

It may be a little charged against the Trump administration, but most of it, if not all, is factually true.

So my suggestion is to remove Arc Dream Publishing, until further notice, specially considering there is absolutely nothing relating to woke-ism here, as apparently MAGA diehards are deliberately trying to settle some score here by blurring the lines.

I do not support neither Trump nor woke pandering from companies, and do not want those two things to be inappropriately confused.

It came as Arc Knight and not Arc Dream because I am on mobile and typing is weird (likewise I just woke up). If you even read my comment after, it's more the comment on the page after talking about "authoritarian populism" and the "rising authoritarianism in the American public". The writers themselves are woke-ish, but so far they've been decent at keeping it out of their games (hence saying they're Yellow, not Red). The writing in the handler's guide on the Tcho-Tcho when they could've just as easily retconned it, combined with how they broach certain subjects like some of the factions in The Labyrinth also begs to differ. I wouldn't include things like Agent Remko or New Life Fertility to be woke, because they very heavily fit the lore, and it is still a crime to be homosexual in Russia afaik, likewise I wouldn't entirely make the Prana Sodality "anti-woke", they're just hippies that stumbled across something they shouldn't have.

Edit: also I think another reason I said Arc Knight is due to the large amount of talk about Gallant Knight, and my half-awake brain just got confused

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 11:14:05 AM

It came as Arc Knight and not Arc Dream because I am on mobile and typing is weird (likewise I just woke up). If you even read my comment after, it's more the comment on the page after talking about "authoritarian populism" and the "rising authoritarianism in the American public". The writers themselves are woke-ish, but so far they've been decent at keeping it out of their games (hence saying they're Yellow, not Red).

Arc Dream has been classified as Red, actually.

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 11:14:05 AM
The writing in the handler's guide on the Tcho-Tcho when they could've just as easily retconned it, combined with how they broach certain subjects like some of the factions in The Labyrinth also begs to differ. I wouldn't include things like Agent Remko or New Life Fertility to be woke, because they very heavily fit the lore, and it is still a crime to be homosexual in Russia afaik, likewise I wouldn't entirely make the Prana Sodality "anti-woke", they're just hippies that stumbled across something they shouldn't have.

So you still believe there are occurrences of wokeness in The Labyrinth, but you cannot actually present one definitive example?
And good lord, I would be very curious to understand how you could imagine one instant New Life Fertility (a secret organisation which breed Sub Niggurath hybrids in the midst of rich people with infertility issues) to be potentially woke. In that case, all modern RPGs become verboten

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 09:00:35 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 20, 2021, 06:11:47 AM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 12:52:18 AM
Since the topic of Cthulhu mythos games came up, I would put Arc Dream as yellow tbh. Aside from the tirade against Trump and "authoritarian populism" in the Delta Green Handler's Guide, and them including an "other" category in sex on the DG character sheet

I have no problems with "other", mostly because it is a personal choice that I can respect, not to mention something I feel "belonging" to the DG universe... But... Trump??

I got my DG books literally two days ago. They were still in their (*) slipcase. After your post I pulled out the Handler's Guide and I read the tirade against the Big T. What were they thinking? I sometimes like to have bits of political debate in my CoC games set in the 1920s, just to enhance the flavour of the era, but contemporary politics have no place in a RPG.

Quote
(honestly I think they should've just left 2016 and beyond out of the book, but whatever).

Same here. To me, the cut-off in DG should be 2015.

(*) They are transgender books of course.

While the cutoff should have been 2015, if they continued the timeline (as I know some of the DG scenarios in the new books happen in 2017/2018) they honestly should've either did what they did with Obama and put little info, or just have someone that doesn't exist in it. On the flip side, I understand to a point including all of that because a lot of DG characters tend to work in intelligence.

I also would not have included the last thing about Infowars in the book, because to me phenomen-x is basically the DG canon equivalent so it wasn't necessary

Back in the '90 (1995-1999) I wrote a series of comic-book stories about this secret government agency called "Elsewhere" that dabbled in... everything and anything (I'm still proud of the dialogue "The President is worried about the impact of this crisis on our commercial treaties with the Elves..."). It was set in contemporary times and actually it was strongly "Tom Clancey" (not only in the depth of real world research found in Clancy books but also in his vein of "optimism after all").

The US President was always a shadow among shadows. It was not a fictional one and I never mentioned real-World politics. And that was all. Sometimes the readers wrote us asking "Is that guy in the shadows Bill Clinton? Is there a secret President behind everything?" and we just answered "Who knows? This is 'Elsewhere'..."

I have put down the outline of an CoC adventure set at the very beginning of the Iraq War, on the night of Mar, 20th 2003 (I guess that now I'll use Delta Green). It involves a totally unprepared MET Team picked up at the last moment, given scattered intelligence and sent out in the mountains near Karbala from "the highest authorities".

I'll make clear that I'll accept any king of rumbling against "Shitty heads who shit out shitty missions with shitty intelligence - this is how good guys give up the shit pals!" but any political comment about the War, Bush Jr. and friends is verboten. They are not there to debate that and a game is not the place to debate these kind of topics anyway.

Quote from: stilgars on August 20, 2021, 11:29:02 AM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 11:14:05 AM

It came as Arc Knight and not Arc Dream because I am on mobile and typing is weird (likewise I just woke up). If you even read my comment after, it's more the comment on the page after talking about "authoritarian populism" and the "rising authoritarianism in the American public". The writers themselves are woke-ish, but so far they've been decent at keeping it out of their games (hence saying they're Yellow, not Red).

Arc Dream has been classified as Red, actually.

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 11:14:05 AM
The writing in the handler's guide on the Tcho-Tcho when they could've just as easily retconned it, combined with how they broach certain subjects like some of the factions in The Labyrinth also begs to differ. I wouldn't include things like Agent Remko or New Life Fertility to be woke, because they very heavily fit the lore, and it is still a crime to be homosexual in Russia afaik, likewise I wouldn't entirely make the Prana Sodality "anti-woke", they're just hippies that stumbled across something they shouldn't have.

So you still believe there are occurrences of wokeness in The Labyrinth, but you cannot actually present one definitive example?
And good lord, I would be very curious to understand how you could imagine one instant New Life Fertility (a secret organisation which breed Sub Niggurath hybrids in the midst of rich people with infertility issues) to be potentially woke. In that case, all modern RPGs become verboten

No I was saying The Labyrinth wasn't woke, when they could easily be misconstrued as such, and I brought those up as things that have been examples of such wokisms on other forums, ie big purple, but honestly to me don't seem to be (with New Life being possibly misconstrued as "haha stupid Catholics wanted natural bs" despite it showing that it isn't technically natural). Also the only reason Arc Dream was listed as Red was because of my initial post, and while the tirade on Trump in the book is bad, that's essentially the only instance of wokeness I've seen (and I have read through the DG core books, Impossible Landscapes, The Labyrinth, and Black Sites. Hell, it's probably my favorite RPG at this point and I only noticed that because of rereading the handler's guide as I need to come up with a new op for my party and I saw that.)

Quote from: stilgars on August 20, 2021, 11:29:02 AM

Quote from: PonchoGoblin on August 20, 2021, 11:14:05 AM

It came as Arc Knight and not Arc Dream because I am on mobile and typing is weird (likewise I just woke up). If you even read my comment after, it's more the comment on the page after talking about "authoritarian populism" and the "rising authoritarianism in the American public". The writers themselves are woke-ish, but so far they've been decent at keeping it out of their games (hence saying they're Yellow, not Red).

Arc Dream has been classified as Red, actually.

If nothing else, it's interesting to see how an intent of "we have to collect and share the Truth" plays out in action.

So I just checked out delta green in more detail, which a lot of those accusations are misleading at best or debunked but okay let's just ignore that. Look at this assholes Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/drgonzo123

This is the creator of delta green. Here we have him telling people not to buy his book, celebrating the death of conservatives if they happen to die of covid, and pretty much just nothing but shitting on conservatives and going on anti American rants. Yeah fuck this guy he's solidly on red.

Quote from: Ocule on August 20, 2021, 01:43:19 PM
So I just checked out delta green in more detail, which a lot of those accusations are misleading at best or debunked but okay let's just ignore that. Look at this assholes Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/drgonzo123

This is the creator of delta green. Here we have him telling people not to buy his book, celebrating the death of conservatives if they happen to die of covid, and pretty much just nothing but shitting on conservatives and going on anti American rants. Yeah fuck this guy he's solidly on red.

I only got down to this:

Quote from: Đɇnnɨs Đɇŧwɨłłɇɍ @drgonzo123The passive-aggressiveness in how people interact on the internet is fucking ridiculous. Do us all a favour, read back what you typed before you post it. If someone saying that to you would be classified as an asshole — guess what! YOU'RE the asshole!

I guess he showed us who the asshole is.

I would say Massif Press in their Lancer RPG is pretty red.
They have a whole takeout page in the gm section about how they are cis able bodied men trying not to glorify racism, show anyone in a bad light, etc.
Then immediately state that they are extreme antifascist, racist, etc.
Then they finally move on to telling people not discriminate at their table and how you should be accepting of all views.

It is the modern day version of 'we aren't satanist/this is fiction' screed that we saw in rpg's in the 90's.

Quote from: Ocule on August 20, 2021, 01:43:19 PM
So I just checked out delta green in more detail, which a lot of those accusations are misleading at best or debunked but okay let's just ignore that. Look at this assholes Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/drgonzo123

This is the creator of delta green. Here we have him telling people not to buy his book, celebrating the death of conservatives if they happen to die of covid, and pretty much just nothing but shitting on conservatives and going on anti American rants. Yeah fuck this guy he's solidly on red.

Ok fine. So for the sake of exactness, your list is non-political/pro-trump "authors" versus anti-trump, nothing actually concerning woke (or non woke) companies in RPGs.

As for celebrating the anti-vaccine guy who dies of covid-19, it's called Darwinism - the antithesis of wokeness. The weak and the stupid die first.