Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 01:39:40 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 01:03:32 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 08, 2021, 02:01:39 AM

Quote from: Merrill on August 07, 2021, 06:33:18 PM
But on a side note, do you think Jews, who call themselves God's Chosen People, refer to other races and groups as Goyim, black people as "Schwarze", and operate an ethnostate in Israel with nice big walls and camps for people who get out-of-line, are racist?

Banned for anti-semitism.

It's almost amusing how, once you let them talk for a while, the anti-semites can't help but out themselves.  It's like they were vegan, or into Crossfit...

So much for the anti-woke crowd. Expressing a negative or critical view of Israel or Jews is totally nazi and has to be banned. Maybe it was off-topic, but What is the difference between this and the people who ban others for posting statistics or scientific facts on account of them being "racist"? This literally banning out of political correctness; the guy didn't advocate for genocide, ethnic cleansing or discrimination.
   
Inb4 "nazi fascist antisemitic bigot!!!!"

Why can't we just have a society in which people speak their minds and we let everyone decide for themselves and sort themselves out instead of having a group of chosen few moderators who totally know what's right for us and know what opinions have to be purged? I know it's a private forum, but you get the point.

Well, I can't speak for Pundit, but I can tell you, as an advocate for individualism, I have no problem discussing the issues with individual people and their actions.  But collective guilt, collective hatred, or collective discrimination are neither valid arguments, nor productive.  They assert things not proven (that a person is guilty of X because of their race), and then attempt to denigrate all members of that group based on that.  They never lead to actual discussion, because bigots of that nature are never willing to listen.  Do you honestly think that Merrill would have been open to being convinced that his anti-semetic prejudice was incorrect?  That isn't discussion; it's a lecture (from a bigot).  So it has no value on this forum.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 02:19:43 PM
Well, I can't speak for Pundit, but I can tell you, as an advocate for individualism, I have no problem discussing the issues with individual people and their actions.  But collective guilt, collective hatred, or collective discrimination are neither valid arguments, nor productive.  They assert things not proven (that a person is guilty of X because of their race), and then attempt to denigrate all members of that group based on that.  They never lead to actual discussion, because bigots of that nature are never willing to listen.  Do you honestly think that Merrill would have been open to being convinced that his anti-semetic prejudice was incorrect?  That isn't discussion; it's a lecture (from a bigot).  So it has no value on this forum.

Individualism is not isolationism. It does not exclude group behavior, cultural baggage, demographic trends, etc. Every person is an individual but they belong to a certain group due to their upbringing and this does have an effect on their outlook in life. Far from being smothering collectivism, belonging to a community is a natural part of being a human being (and just in case, it does not justify taking away your individual rights for the "greater good").

Go to Israel, if you don't believe me, and see what the prevailing attitude is towards christians. There are exceptions, sure. But there are also rules which societies tend to follow, and Israel, as a country, has a very strong anti-christian sentiment.

This is a major problem with individualists and libertarians; both ideas to which I strongly adhere, btw. They can't bring themselves to admit that group trends do exist and that tribalism and group-think is natural to people. To some of us, it's impossible to admit the existence of groups, cultures, civilizations and societies; apparently doing so means that you justify ideologies like "greater good" and lack of individuality. We must break from our own dogmas and see the blatant facts.

Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own. Other groups do see race and realize that white people are a culture on their own, rather than the "standard" or the "vanilla", base, neutral culture everybody is meant to assimilate. While Whites have been told to think in terms of individuals, other groups were taught to have allegiance to their people, and you're seeing the results.

That being said, banning people for not being individualists sounds very collectivist to me.

Ah, yes, the nazis, those paragons of individualist thought...

Won't someone please think of the nazis.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2015/08/21/advanced-discrimination-dragons-critical-look-varg-vikernes-myfarog-rpg/

I just read the article about how "racist" Myfarog is. The person who wrote it is a woke idiot.

QuoteDude even has his own system of measurement. You can fight, go on quests, attend festivals, get married, create a home, have kids (although the mother might die in childbirth; women are frail things in the world of Thule), then have your character's child replace him as your player character. Why you would want to play this disaster for that long, I don't know, but you need a pretty hefty rule set for a world as complex as that.

See? This idiot doesn't even understand that some people like a gritty, "mudcore" aspect to their game. Death in childbirth is apparently sexist.

Quote
Set in the antediluvian land of Thule, a repository for a bunch of generic fantasy tropes filtered through Vikernes' own Norse-centric historical revisionism, this isn't that far off from Dungeons & Dragons or Conan the Barbarian – only so racist it would make Conan creator Robert E Howard himself seem enlightened.

So what? Since when are "generic" fantasy settings bad? Far from being generic, it's not a common setting.

And the Robert E. Howard comment... give me a break. I don't blame him for being "racist" (assuming he was, which is likely but not too overt in his works). That was the common denominator of all mankind until the past few decades of indoctrination.

I don't blame him for getting a bad impression of Africans in the 1930's. Politically-correct invidualism and wokeism demand that we ignore reality to adhere to a dogma in which every culture, every lifestyle and every people is just the same in spite of blatant differences. Africa was mostly undeveloped while Europe was in the Industrial Age. I don't blame Europeans for seeing them as less civilized or simply less desirable. Just as I don't blame the Japanese for seeing Westerners as "long-nosed barbarians" or the Arabs thinking the Africans were practically subhuman.

Quote
And hey, maybe you'll think this has a great world to play in. But if you do, guess what? You're a Nazi. A literal Nazi.

Nobles are naturally superior to the peasantry in this world.

Everybody qualifies as a "nazi" for these people. Most people throughout history held politically incorrect views. Slavery, submission of women, authoritarianism, nobility, etc. Only in the mindset of a 21st century democrat are these things completely unacceptable. They can only play in medieval setting in which transqueerfolk can have their safe space.

QuoteThere is an entire page with his versions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism – you know what? I'm not even religious and I can't even bring myself to write a summary of it.

Then they get upset about criticisms of christianity... Well after years of media telling you the church burned people for no reason and "oppressed" the peaceful tribes of hippies who commit human sacrifice every once in a while, how can you complain about criticisms of christianity?

Quoteone of the suggested quest ideas is literally ethnic cleansing:

Here's the ethnic cleansing hes talking about

QuoteTo his credit, Varg does consider women to be human. He allows them to be as good at hunting rabbits as men (although they have to leave the bigger game to their stronger male counterparts). Women can even go to war! In fact, there's an entire race where the men see women as equals and allow them to fight alongside them in battle. Unfortunately, that means that the race has fewer females because, and I quote, "the women die sooner than the men, because they are physically weaker than the men." So, you know.

omg biology is oppressing me

QuoteObviously, you shouldn't buy this book. But if you really want to kick this clown in the balls, go make a donation in his name to a worthy charity like the Shoah Foundation or the Southern Poverty Law Center.

No words here.


Anyway, fuck Vikernes. He's an arsonist, murderer, mentally ill-pagan LARPer and probably thinks nords are better than everybody else. And his music is not really good either

Christ in a Camaro... I hang on this board to talk about RPGs... not if some fuckwit actually qualifies as a bona fide Nazi or just a LARP-head.

As to the Anti-Semitic remarks made above by our dear departed poster: that statement was deliberately calculated to provoke reactions at the least, and at the most to inject Jew baiting into our discussion. Pundit did the right thing; that sort of shit has no place in any adult's definition of intelligent discussion. I don't like the SJWs either, but there's a goddamned line.

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own.

Before your inevitable exit from here, I will point out to you that culture (such as mine: traditional individualist American) has nothing to do with race.  Far from failing, the idea of a nation where any person can be a part (regardless of race) has proven to be the foundation of the greatest nation ever, responsible for more advancement in living conditions than any other in world history.  It is the tribalists (be they based on race, geography, etc.) that consistently fail to product societies worth living in.  The American ideal, while an offshoot of Western Protestant Liberalism, requires nothing except a commitment to its principles and the corresponding behaviors.  It is open to everyone.  That makes it absolutely superior to any "collective" based on race or tribe.  You should free yourself of your misguided anger and embrace the reality: the only thing that matters is what you believe and how you live.  Everything else is superficial.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 08, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Thanks for the ban against that creep. I was tired of reading pages and pages of his tripe. What's next, someone will come in and waste our time going on and on about how Sauron was the good guy, admittedly that would be a funner read.

Someone never read The Last Ringbearer (although that was more of a parody/deconstruction).

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own.

Before your inevitable exit from here, I will point out to you that culture (such as mine: traditional individualist American) has nothing to do with race.  Far from failing, the idea of a nation where any person can be a part (regardless of race) has proven to be the foundation of the greatest nation ever, responsible for more advancement in living conditions than any other in world history.  It is the tribalists (be they based on race, geography, etc.) that consistently fail to product societies worth living in.  The American ideal, while an offshoot of Western Protestant Liberalism, requires nothing except a commitment to its principles and the corresponding behaviors.  It is open to everyone.  That makes it absolutely superior to any "collective" based on race or tribe.  You should free yourself of your misguided anger and embrace the reality: the only thing that matters is what you believe and how you live.  Everything else is superficial.

Greetings!

*SALUTE* my friend.





Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own.

Before your inevitable exit from here, I will point out to you that culture (such as mine: traditional individualist American) has nothing to do with race.  Far from failing, the idea of a nation where any person can be a part (regardless of race) has proven to be the foundation of the greatest nation ever, responsible for more advancement in living conditions than any other in world history.  It is the tribalists (be they based on race, geography, etc.) that consistently fail to product societies worth living in.  The American ideal, while an offshoot of Western Protestant Liberalism, requires nothing except a commitment to its principles and the corresponding behaviors.  It is open to everyone.  That makes it absolutely superior to any "collective" based on race or tribe.  You should free yourself of your misguided anger and embrace the reality: the only thing that matters is what you believe and how you live.  Everything else is superficial.

I was told by another user to just leave it here and I agreed, but after this response I couldn't stay silent.

You have more diversity now than ever. How's that working out for America? Do you think all the people who migrate to America have the same western, individualist, protestant-ethics, by-your-bootstraps mindset? Far from being a cohesive society, you have plenty of sub-groups with different sub-cultures; an example is "Black people/White people things/music". Maybe in the South they'll honor the memory of people like Stonewall Jackson or General Lee, but African Americans, just as Americans as they are, may want to tear down their statues because to them they were their enslavers. Others, like Asians, may be more neutral and have no feeling either way. That is why you have lots of Black people interested in Black history (which is totally natural), while White Americans have to venerate MLK and Harriet Tubman because their heroes became unacceptable; Christopher Columbus, Lewis and Clarke, General Lee, the Founding Fathers.

Diversity has always been a cause for division, disunity, distrust, "flight" & gentrification, riots, discrimination; you name it. Give people a chance and they'll naturally flock to "their own"; that's how you end up with lots of hyphenated Americans, reservations, historically-black colleges, ethnic christian congregations, white flight, interracial crime, and, inevitably, identity politics once the demographic make-up of your society becomes diverse enough. Need I mention voting patterns? Politicians know exactly that groups like Blacks or Asians tend to vote democrat while Whites tend to vote Reopublican and use it to their advantage; which proves my point; demographic trends are real, but dogmatism is blinding people to that fact.

To this day, America is still spending millions in affirmative action, diversity quotas, diversifying suburbs (which is obviously gerrymandering) and other such programs to "fix" society and "fix the inequalities" that can only be attributed to racism. Meanwhile, the same "racist" white supremacist system is giving Asians a statistical advantage even over their "oppressors".

I don't know why pointing this out would be "anger" or "hatred". Don't put words in my mouth. Not once have I advocated for discrimination, ethnic cleansing or anything of that sort. I just stated a basic fact of life; people don't tend to see past race, and certainly America hasn't been the exception. Let me be crystal clear: I advocate for natural, voluntary, spontaneous association as opposed to enforced diversity in hopes of a utopia which will probably never come.

If my "inevitable exit" thrills you then that speaks volumes of you, not me. I wouldn't mind getting "exitted" from a place in which they ban people based on political correctness or assumptions about their opinions. If I wanted that I'd go to RPG net or reddit, they do that very often.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own.

Before your inevitable exit from here, I will point out to you that culture (such as mine: traditional individualist American) has nothing to do with race.  Far from failing, the idea of a nation where any person can be a part (regardless of race) has proven to be the foundation of the greatest nation ever, responsible for more advancement in living conditions than any other in world history.  It is the tribalists (be they based on race, geography, etc.) that consistently fail to product societies worth living in.  The American ideal, while an offshoot of Western Protestant Liberalism, requires nothing except a commitment to its principles and the corresponding behaviors.  It is open to everyone.  That makes it absolutely superior to any "collective" based on race or tribe.  You should free yourself of your misguided anger and embrace the reality: the only thing that matters is what you believe and how you live.  Everything else is superficial.

Amen!

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 04:45:46 PM

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM
Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own.

Before your inevitable exit from here, I will point out to you that culture (such as mine: traditional individualist American) has nothing to do with race.  Far from failing, the idea of a nation where any person can be a part (regardless of race) has proven to be the foundation of the greatest nation ever, responsible for more advancement in living conditions than any other in world history.  It is the tribalists (be they based on race, geography, etc.) that consistently fail to product societies worth living in.  The American ideal, while an offshoot of Western Protestant Liberalism, requires nothing except a commitment to its principles and the corresponding behaviors.  It is open to everyone.  That makes it absolutely superior to any "collective" based on race or tribe.  You should free yourself of your misguided anger and embrace the reality: the only thing that matters is what you believe and how you live.  Everything else is superficial.

I'd have to strongly disagree with you, here. Culture and race are very closely linked. You can always find examples to the contrary, but, in general, culture and race -- very closely linked. I don't see how anyone can even argue that. I am in Canada, not America, but the same thing applies. To take one example, you have second-generation Indians who are still very Indian. They take whatever can benefit them from the white people's system, but still favour their own group, give breaks to their own group, hire their own group, marry their own group, and vote for Indian politicians. They demand the right to wear turbans in the police force (rather than the customary RCMP hat) or on motorcycles (rather than helmets). These people are not interested in assimilating or integrating. They do not see past race, at all. They keep their culture, religion, and in-group preferences when it counts. I think a lot of white people have never experienced so-called reverse racism (which is actually just racism) or discrimination for being white, or they were too dumb to know what was happening. A smile and a kind word to your face, but disdain and sneakiness behind your back. Dumb white leftist baizuo. So gullible.

But this is getting a bit off topic -- my apologies.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 08, 2021, 04:47:09 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 08, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Thanks for the ban against that creep. I was tired of reading pages and pages of his tripe. What's next, someone will come in and waste our time going on and on about how Sauron was the good guy, admittedly that would be a funner read.

Someone never read The Last Ringbearer (although that was more of a parody/deconstruction).

I have not, good sir. Is it worth my time?

Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 08, 2021, 08:14:37 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 08, 2021, 04:47:09 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on August 08, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Thanks for the ban against that creep. I was tired of reading pages and pages of his tripe. What's next, someone will come in and waste our time going on and on about how Sauron was the good guy, admittedly that would be a funner read.

Someone never read The Last Ringbearer (although that was more of a parody/deconstruction).

I have not, good sir. Is it worth my time?

It's interesting. The idea is that the Lord of the Rings is 'history written by the victors' and that the reality of the conflict was... far less black and white.

Because there were legal issues involving Tolkien's estate (and I find them ironic in light of how the current holders are shitting things up) it was never commercially published in English. A translation can be downloaded from here. https://ymarkov.livejournal.com/280578.html

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 01:39:40 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 01:03:32 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 08, 2021, 02:01:39 AM

Quote from: Merrill on August 07, 2021, 06:33:18 PM
But on a side note, do you think Jews, who call themselves God's Chosen People, refer to other races and groups as Goyim, black people as "Schwarze", and operate an ethnostate in Israel with nice big walls and camps for people who get out-of-line, are racist?

Banned for anti-semitism.

It's almost amusing how, once you let them talk for a while, the anti-semites can't help but out themselves.  It's like they were vegan, or into Crossfit...

So much for the anti-woke crowd. Expressing a negative or critical view of Israel or Jews is totally nazi and has to be banned. Maybe it was off-topic, but What is the difference between this and the people who ban others for posting statistics or scientific facts on account of them being "racist"? This literally banning out of political correctness; the guy didn't advocate for genocide, ethnic cleansing or discrimination.
   
Inb4 "nazi fascist antisemitic bigot!!!!"

Why can't we just have a society in which people speak their minds and we let everyone decide for themselves and sort themselves out instead of having a group of chosen few moderators who totally know what's right for us and know what opinions have to be purged? I know it's a private forum, but you get the point.

Claiming that "Jews" (as in collectively) are bigoted and also suggesting that 'Jews are the real nazis' is a directly racist statement against an entire people. These claims aren't statistics, they're not even true or viable opinions.

This isn't an invitation for you to derail this thread by responding to me, and definitely not an invitation for you to share your opinions about the Jewish people. It's just to make clear to you: open anti-semites will be banned here. If you don't like that, leave.

(edited to add: making specific statements about specific Israeli government policies, so long as those statements are truthful, is of course allowed. So is criticizing individual Jews for things they've actually said or done)

Quote from: SonTodoGato on August 08, 2021, 03:01:11 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2021, 02:19:43 PM
Well, I can't speak for Pundit, but I can tell you, as an advocate for individualism, I have no problem discussing the issues with individual people and their actions.  But collective guilt, collective hatred, or collective discrimination are neither valid arguments, nor productive.  They assert things not proven (that a person is guilty of X because of their race), and then attempt to denigrate all members of that group based on that.  They never lead to actual discussion, because bigots of that nature are never willing to listen.  Do you honestly think that Merrill would have been open to being convinced that his anti-semetic prejudice was incorrect?  That isn't discussion; it's a lecture (from a bigot).  So it has no value on this forum.

Individualism is not isolationism. It does not exclude group behavior, cultural baggage, demographic trends, etc. Every person is an individual but they belong to a certain group due to their upbringing and this does have an effect on their outlook in life. Far from being smothering collectivism, belonging to a community is a natural part of being a human being (and just in case, it does not justify taking away your individual rights for the "greater good").

Go to Israel, if you don't believe me, and see what the prevailing attitude is towards christians. There are exceptions, sure. But there are also rules which societies tend to follow, and Israel, as a country, has a very strong anti-christian sentiment.

This is a major problem with individualists and libertarians; both ideas to which I strongly adhere, btw. They can't bring themselves to admit that group trends do exist and that tribalism and group-think is natural to people. To some of us, it's impossible to admit the existence of groups, cultures, civilizations and societies; apparently doing so means that you justify ideologies like "greater good" and lack of individuality. We must break from our own dogmas and see the blatant facts.

Asians, Blacks, "Hispanics", Jews, Muslims, etc. tend to see themselves as a distinct group which has collective interests and an identity of their own. What makes Western civilizations any different? Hell, even individualism is a trait of western civilization. It is a cultural trait which westerners tend to take for granted. It is a fairly modern western philosophy. Not everyone shares it.

This is the reason why "colorblindness" and "civic nationalism" prove to be failures time after time. The only ones who are seeing "past race" are White, Western people, who refuse to see that they have a culture and an identity of their own. Other groups do see race and realize that white people are a culture on their own, rather than the "standard" or the "vanilla", base, neutral culture everybody is meant to assimilate. While Whites have been told to think in terms of individuals, other groups were taught to have allegiance to their people, and you're seeing the results.

That being said, banning people for not being individualists sounds very collectivist to me.

I know a lot of Jewish people, both Israelis and Jews who've never stepped foot in Israel and in between. While I'm sure there are Jewish people who could have justified or unjustified issues or resentment against Christians, I've never yet met a single one who has.

In addition to posting anti-semitic statements, another (more common) bannable offence is posting off-topic in the gaming forum.  So this is a warning: stop posting about this here, or any other off-topic deviations from the subject of gaming in any thread in the roleplaying forum, or you will be banned.