Re: OSRIC... the gang that is currently working on stuff for it are certainly not Wokies.

That being said: the license holder, Stuart Marshall is AFAIK totally AWOL. I've been told he's taking a break from D&D related boards. My experience with him is that he's the typical Brit Labour bloke who thinks American conservatism is a goddamned psych ward.  But I've never seen him post anything radical left. So, unless Stuart resurfaces in drag and starts posting pics of himself with Bronies while shotgunning wine coolers, I think you can put OSRIC in the green zone for now.

Re: Zweihander RPG... I've got their books, read them, and I'm not seeing what other purport to see. Fox's politics are his own business until he shoves it down someone's throat. The closest I've seen in the books is a statement that gender is fluid... well, so is my taste in women. So what.  I'm sure others have seen or heard things I have not.

Now: G&P on DriveThru RPG is allowing authors to publish stuff under the ZH banner using any published material any way they see fit... for a cut of the profits. 60/40 toward the author. I'm not seeing any parameters about socio-political themes demanded from the authors other than don't be a shit-ass blah blah blah, so theoretically I'm guessing one could publish an adventure about tall blond elves dressed in black gassing dwarves and shoving the bodies in ovens, and get away with it. Probably wouldn't sell many copies, but you could be damned sure it would get discussed.

Quote from: Ocule on August 03, 2021, 12:26:41 PM

I was thinking on the topic of fighting back and not giving money to people that hate you, so I decided the best thing to do is make a compilation list of companies and rpgs that are woke, those that sit on the fence and those that are not. It might be helpful when looking at various rpgs to know what you are getting into before you buy in. If there are any other companies that you know of just comment with the company or rpg line and why you think it is. I'm sure ill get some stuff wrong here but it might be a good thing to have around.

Green
Not Woke or Indifferent

• RPG Pundit (Lion and Dragon, Arrows of Indra, Dark Albion): Historical fiction and stays true to the mindset of the times. See his YT channel. Might create a new category here for anti sjw.
• Troll Lord Games Supports vets with big discounts, generally stays apolitical.
• Studio Agate/Shadows of Esteren No indication of any affiliation. Decent game, takes forever to fill kickstarters though.
• Precis Intermedia: "Makers of the Genre Diversion System and a publisher of any other games. Never seen anything woke from them, and the owner seems like a really cool, level-headed guy"
• Autarch/ACKS no indication one way or the other
• Necrotic Gnome Makes a point to be apolitical
• Basic Fantasy Also keeps politics separate from products

Yellow
Sort of Woke or Panders- If it's there it's subtle. They "bend the knee" to the grifters, or maybe they themselves are woke

• Fantasy Flight Games Hard to decide if it belongs here or just in the woke catagory. They gender and race swap characters, ban words that might be considered offensive like Banzai, and generally allow the woke mob to take over the forums and run away with their trade dress etc. They dont constantly harass potential customers and tell them how much they hate em at least.
• Talsorian Games Mixed Bag imo, they lean really heavily into IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations) it's on their page rules. Lots of pronouns in bios, They havn't gone full crazy just yet
• Frog God Games/Swords and Wizardry Did a bit of pandering with an all female printing of Swords and Wizardry, suspect but worth noting.
• Goodman Games - Tried to protect itself by distancing itself from Judges Guild and donating to ADL. Other than that can't really find anything else on them. Praised BLM for a time
• Chaosium Changed in world lore to be more for Runequest, some censorship and bending to BLM/GLBT+ demands

Red
Woke,These people probably despise you if you don't fall in line and they aren't afraid to let you know it.

• Wizards of the Coast - Harasses customers, diversity checkboxes, hires based on race, pedo judges, bans anyone they disagree with on social issues from all sanctioned events. True dumpster fire.
• Paizo- Has whole pages in their books telling you how you must play there game and be inclusive. Harasses customers, aggressively moderates forums against anyone to the right of stalin, Retconned Golarion lore to be more inclusive, starfinder even had an adventure where you needed to get a professor at a university to apologize for being insensitive despite being factually correct. No lie, first adventure path. Another AP for Pathfinder showed all men as incompetent, read like a tumblr blog and all the women were super powerful and if you didnt bring the black, lesbian, disabled ranger with you then you automatically lost. Iron Gods or something like that.
• Zweihander/Grim and Perilous Games- Freakin Dumpster Fire,
• Cubicle 7 - Not as bad as the others on this list, they're definitely woke. Their art design generally shows it, having extremely odd choices for portraits in warhammer fantasy line and ignoring in world cultural practices like female dwarven artisans arent generally a thing. Ticks diversity checkboxes, pronouns in the bio. I havn't seen them harassing customers yet so that's a win.
• Mophidious/Vampire the Masquerade 5e Not sure where to start with these guys, woke in their products and openly hate you
• Onyx Path Publishing/Chronicles of Darkness
• New White Wolf Publishing Not sure if they're still around, see Mophidious and Onyx Path they're all sister companies.
• Green Ronin- Chris Pramas is a full-on member of ANTIFA, has a vitriolic hatred for white people, and his products reflect this. Publishes "Blue Rose", the gay RPG
• Monkey House Games/Jeff Dee: Enormous asshole and activist. If you are republican or conservative or Christian this hates you.
• Evil Hat Productions- Another poster child for woke gaming. Embedded in everything from their forums, to their products and staff. Openly tells you if you don't like their politics don't buy their games. Too easy
• Free League - Uses OGL to shoot down authors they disagree with. Supports BLM and bailing out rioters

Unknown

• GURPs/Steve Jackson Games
• Palladium
• Whitebox
• For Gold and Glory
• Immersive Ink (Delving Deeper)
• OSRIC

[/list]

Great thread. I'd second a sticky.

I'm not sure if you've seen this thread, but I started making a list like yours a while back:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/the-least-woke-major-rpg-publishers/msg1140348/#msg1140348

Also, check out these threads:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/recommend-your-favorite-not-woke-fantasy-rpg!/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/tsr-is-coming-back-or-it-is-back/msg1177536/#msg1177536

Quote from: palaeomerus on August 03, 2021, 06:39:16 PM
It is a bunch of paramilitary thugs raised in a dystopia with a Demolition Man like idiot culture and these poor people are out busting heads and purging each other so the crazy computer won't purge them and every damned one is a mutant and in a secret society which is grounds to be purged.

Sounds like modern cancel culture/SJWs.

Can't say I give a shit about the politics (stated or presumed) of the companies I buy from. Seems like I buy a lot from the yellow and red groups and almost nothing from the  green, but that's because I haven't found a single OSR product worth dropping money on (and I have a few free pdfs that don't make me want to spend any money on it either).  It's not a politics thing for me though, I just buy what I like.

Gotta say I am surprised Monte Cook Games isn't in the red yet. They are the ones who put out the Consent in Gaming document and are the ones who decided to coin the term 'safety tool's if I remember correctly.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2021, 02:41:55 AM
Can't say I give a shit about the politics (stated or presumed) of the companies I buy from. Seems like I buy a lot from the yellow and red groups and almost nothing from the  green, but that's because I haven't found a single OSR product worth dropping money on (and I have a few free pdfs that don't make me want to spend any money on it either).  It's not a politics thing for me though, I just buy what I like.

^ This.

Quote from: RebelSky on August 04, 2021, 03:16:40 AM
Gotta say I am surprised Monte Cook Games isn't in the red yet. They are the ones who put out the Consent in Gaming document and are the ones who decided to coin the term 'safety tool's if I remember correctly.

I'd say that's a Yellow thing.  I mean, it wasn't included in all their game books.  It was a free pdf you could download if you wanted.  I haven't seen any Trump stand-in type monsters show up in Numenera or any political screeds finding their way into The Strange or any other Cypher game.

They did have one that was all about mental health: We're All Mad Here.

QuoteThe Heartwood, a complete fairy tale setting that draws upon the fictional concept of "madness" in a way that addresses our modern, realistic, and sensitive understanding of mental health. In this setting, characters touched with mental illness in the real world discover a realm where they are empowered, and the wild and imaginative adventures they have there allow them to find even greater strengths within themselves.

But again, that seems more pandering than anything else.

Quote from: Semaj Khan on August 04, 2021, 08:46:21 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2021, 02:41:55 AM
Can't say I give a shit about the politics (stated or presumed) of the companies I buy from. Seems like I buy a lot from the yellow and red groups and almost nothing from the  green, but that's because I haven't found a single OSR product worth dropping money on (and I have a few free pdfs that don't make me want to spend any money on it either).  It's not a politics thing for me though, I just buy what I like.

^ This.

Monty Cook is woke AF.

And what of Pinnacle Entertainment Group? Sure, they rewrote the Deadlands backstory, but supposedly there is a logical reason for doing so? Other than that, I haven't seen any woke pandering from them. I'd say at worst, yellow?

Yeah I'm gonna try and leave red for the most ones who delve deep into crazy town like eclipse phase, wotc etc. I think most will end up yellow. As for Grim and Perilous as hey are definitely red. Their original zweihander hadn't been corrupted yet but if you look at their other projects like flames of freedom or something like that the whole thing is just screeching "reeee colonialism bad, white people bad" and if you visit their discord they actually have a bot that censors "banned words"and phrases. On top of the other drama I heard about them I'm not sure I can justify any others.

Steve Jackson id love to hear about how they pander. I don't really doubt it just I havnt really seen it and couldn't find it readily.

Pinnacle I might put as yellow, I wanted to make em green so badly but after adventure edition they've been walking that line like removing the csa from deadlands, and doing away with all the art that people might take offense to. It's mostly more puritans finding there way into the groups I think

Quote from: Merrill on August 03, 2021, 02:13:51 PM
Monkey House Games: Jeff Dee's gaming company. The guy is maybe the biggest leftist, woke asshole in the history of the industry.

  Didn't he write the V&V adventure For the Greater Good with supervillains that were nasty satires of conservatives ... back in the 80s? He was SJW before it was cool.

Dammit. First I had to dump my Gloomhaven stuff after the Frosthaven fiasco. Now I have to get rid of my Conan and Forbidden Lands books, which I just ordered and haven't even received yet.

At least I still have Old School Essentials. That's a set of rules I really like...

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson on August 04, 2021, 10:11:59 AM
Dammit. First I had to dump my Gloomhaven stuff after the Frosthaven fiasco. Now I have to get rid of my Conan and Forbidden Lands books, which I just ordered and haven't even received yet.

At least I still have Old School Essentials. That's a set of rules I really like...

Whats going on with Gloomhaven and Fiasco? Or Conan and Forbidden Lands.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2021, 02:41:55 AM
Can't say I give a shit about the politics (stated or presumed) of the companies I buy from. Seems like I buy a lot from the yellow and red groups and almost nothing from the  green, but that's because I haven't found a single OSR product worth dropping money on (and I have a few free pdfs that don't make me want to spend any money on it either).  It's not a politics thing for me though, I just buy what I like.

To each their own tastes, the intent of this was really to focus on companies doing it right rather than the ones who are actually woke. Personally I am just frustrated with investing time and money into a game that I like only for them to turn around and start taking jabs at me or fillng books with propaganda/preaching. Most of the companies on the red list i've felt like that with. Like WotC makes a pretty decent game 5e and I invested in books and source material, then shows their true colors and now I have a half finished rpg line because I wont use stupid shit like Tashas. Paizo just makes it very hard to interact with any paizo sanctioned communities or buying anything after like Wrath of the Righteous adventure path. Which is a shame because it too, made a pretty solid game.

On a sort of coincidental side note, conservative/moderate/not far left publishers and creators really could use some love considering that companies like Evil Hat really step into the bounds of tortious interference or find themselves banned from all the big conventions (see Nu TSR or whatever the fuck they're calling themselves now) so making our own communities, conventions and letting people know who otherwise wouldn't know about them certainly helps.


Speaking of, Lamentations of the Flame Princess....I'm not sure what to make of Zak S and what catagory he would fit into.

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson on August 04, 2021, 10:11:59 AM
Dammit. First I had to dump my Gloomhaven stuff after the Frosthaven fiasco. Now I have to get rid of my Conan and Forbidden Lands books, which I just ordered and haven't even received yet.

At least I still have Old School Essentials. That's a set of rules I really like...

Yeah, so what happened with Frosthaven? I haven't kept up on it.

I'm not going to get rid of the Conan stuff, most of it is pretty good and it wasn't till the later 3rd stage set of releases when Modiphius started going more woke. And I think it's only one book that got changed (which are some stupid changes IMO). Luckily I have a PDF copy of that book before the alterations. It was during the final editing of the book, the one that takes Conan to the east, where a new line editor was hired and this tool made the changes.

As far as I know no other Conan books have been changed.

I also think Modiphius should be split from V5E. Modiphius is the publisher.  The game is by Renegade Game Studios.

Modiphius, as far as I can tell, are more pandering (but admittedly I don't hang on their boards so I don't know what that's like).  With the exception of the edits made to a single Conan book, Conan the Wanderer, I haven't seen anything too bad from them.  They are more what I call European Woke.  I expect every European game to have a disclaimer about anti -ism and the like and find it odd if they don't.  I don't tend to hold that against any of them because it doesn't come across as political, unlike when it comes from a US based company.  Maybe it's just a lack of PoV on my part, but that's how it feels to me.