Quote from: kreegan on September 07, 2021, 02:58:00 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 07, 2021, 11:36:55 AM
7) Evil Beagle Games/Sean patrick fannon went on some tirade about social justice and asked to be put on the red list. So he is now on the red list.

This ought to tell you all you need to know about Mr. Fannon. Remember, a goodly number of the loudest SJW types behave that way in an attempt to distract you from their own status as abusers...

https://www.enworld.org/threads/harassment-policies-new-allegations-show-more-work-to-be-done.665363/

Thats gonna go as a citation for him lol, i'm surprised people still associate with him

Quote from: Ocule on September 06, 2021, 06:31:27 PM

Quote from: Crusader X on September 06, 2021, 06:17:10 PM
Greg Gillespie, creator or Barrowmaze, commented on this list on Facebook.  Greg is definitely in the green group.

Got a link by any chance? I'll add him to the google doc

I can 100% confirm Greg's in the green camp. Great dude, no crap in his products.

Quote from: Ocule on September 07, 2021, 02:37:47 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 07, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
I know you don't want to hear this but this forum came out of this kerfuffle smelling like a cow pasture.

Twitter absolutely clowned on you and proclaiming you won to your fans while everyone else can see you being Corncobbed is just embarrassing.

You guys got roasted. Deal with it.

Does anyone seriously give a fuck about twitter? Like other than a few screenshots I've got no idea what twatter is doing. I didn't write this for twitter. Twitter is for Twits.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, like who the fuck cares about the gibbering scum on Twitter?

Let them REEEE! all they want. Fuck them. I don't think anyone here gives a damn about what people on fucking Twitter think.

"Deal With It"? *Laughing* Dealing with a bunch of sniveling, sobbing crybabies isn't difficult at all.

The SJW's hate the list you made up, Ocule! You know they are gnashing their teeth and sobbing in hysterical rage. How do we know this is true?

Just remember the video of the fat white woman wearing glasses falling to her knees and sobbing hysterically at the sky that Trump won the election?

That is the SJW's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Ocule on September 07, 2021, 02:15:08 PM

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 07, 2021, 02:00:09 PM

Quote from: Ocule on September 07, 2021, 01:28:47 PM

Quote from: Hopladamus on September 07, 2021, 01:12:50 PM
Don't forget to add Tenkar's Tavern Gamen to the Green list. Tenkar has always been fair to us.

I was skeptical about TT because he went full on hate boner for nu-tsr, i'm not entirely sure why. I know he released a video on it I havnt had the chance to actually watch it yet. I started it and really wasn't interested in their slapfight.

I think your idea of separating Anti-SJWs from the neutrals is for the best. Then anyone who isn't clearly on one side or the other can be put on the "neutral/undecided/unclear" list. Not to mention that some really spiteful SJW could cause problems for neutrals on the Green list for being "associated" with "those horrible reactionaries", and demand a public condemnation or apology.

The only clear cases for the Anti-SJW list (that I can remember) are RPGPundit, Venger Satanis, and Grim Jim (regardless of his politics, he's an anti-SJW). I'm not sure if James Raggi would qualify. He has caved to SJWs in the past but he generally seems to be opposed to them. Bob Bledsaw II probably also falls under the anti-SJW umbrella, but he goes way too far in the other direction. Ernie Gaygax Jr. Started strong but has since completely caved to SJWs. I seem to remember several known designers being suggested as a suitable replacement for Grim Jim after he quit IC, but I can't seem to remember who they are. I will try to dig up some old tweets and find them, or maybe Pundit remembers.

Yeah, I thought separating them out based on who is actually opposed to the sjw versus who remains neutral. I decided against it for now if only for the same reason as separating them, which is not to damage or paint a target on anyone. I think most people in the Green category are generally targets already, and it would be harder to target them as large group rather than a specific entity. At the same time, I really don't want to piss off the entities that are doing a good job at remaining neutral or staying out of this sort of "culture war" all together.

Given the language used i'm not sure how to handle the opposite extreme. I mean if engaged in the same sort of behavior they should definitely qualify as a redlist name for things like doxxing and harassment. I took MyFarog off the list a while ago because he isn't really what you'd call a sjw... well it's somewhere in the backlog of this really long thread lol. Bob Bledsaw II what's his deal?

I think an Anti-SJW list should be only for people who have explicitly called out SJWs. Not for those that we suspect of holding anti-SJW beliefs. As for the opposite of the extreme, well maybe they should also get their own separate list.

Keep in mind that this list (in my mind) is supposed to be a comprehensive guide to the political ideas of various companies. You are not trying to tell people what to buy, you are essentially providing a service for people who want to know the politics of the people whose games they consider buying. If you can only buy one game at the current time, and you can't decide between a game made by someone who treats you well and a game made by someone who doesn't treat you well, well then I guess your choice is pretty clear.

As for Bledsaw, he's essentially the typical alt-right guy. Race war is coming, jews are behind it and we need a white ethnostate if we wish for the white race to survive the white genocide. Vox Day also falls in that category.

Glenn Rahman has chosen Vox Day's publishing company Castalia House to publish the new Divine Right game. He has never expressed any political views to my knowledge, so if there is any list that he should be on then it's the neutral list, but he did have better offers for a publisher that he turned down even after some of his associates left him because of Vox Day. The same goes for Alexander Marcis of Autarch. Ken St. Andre has also worked with Castalia in the past, and he had several spouts with SJWs on Twitter, but he quickly backtracked every time after he got dogpiled. He's also not very open about politics, so he's neutral as far as I'm concerned.

He's pretty close to our side though: https://twitter.com/Trollgodfather/status/1015652554577928192

There is also that one DnD designer that now supports ComicsGate, but I can't remember who he is. I think that he's a Latino, but I'm not sure.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 06, 2021, 06:15:41 PM
However, I'm also a complete H.P. Lovecraft fanboi. He can't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned. Now, that said, I totally oppose his views on racism. He absolutely hated the Irish for example which people often neglect to mention.

That's not "racism" but "xenophobia". There is an important distinction between the two, and this is what people often neglect to mention (along with the fact that those less bothered by HPL's so-called "anti-Semitism are the Jews, as one can easily learn by simply browsing the internet).

Also, there is another important distinction to make: those who met and tackled HPL's worldviews decades ago, already debated about them and moved on; and those who for some reason, believe that, as of 2021, no one never ever realised HPL's racism and xenophobia, and so it is upon them to "wake up the world" about these topics - usually answering to a post by a Arab or an Italian who appreciates Lovecraft and read "The Horror at Red Hook" in 1985.

Quote from: Reckall on September 07, 2021, 03:52:02 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 06, 2021, 06:15:41 PM
However, I'm also a complete H.P. Lovecraft fanboi. He can't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned. Now, that said, I totally oppose his views on racism. He absolutely hated the Irish for example which people often neglect to mention.

That's not "racism" but "xenophobia". There is an important distinction between the two, and this is what people often neglect to mention (along with the fact that those less bothered by HPL's so-called "anti-Semitism are the Jews, as one can easily learn by simply browsing the internet).

Also, there is another important distinction to make: those who met and tackled HPL's worldviews decades ago, already debated about them and moved on; and those who for some reason, believe that, as of 2021, no one never ever realised HPL's racism and xenophobia, and so it is upon them to "wake up the world" about these topics - usually answering to a post by a Arab or an Italian who appreciates Lovecraft and read "The Horror at Red Hook" in 1985.

I have friends who do play CoC themed board games, and they can't seem to mention HP Lovecraft without feeling the need to mention how they think he's a "racist piece of shit" or other slurs.   And I dunno,  I just feel kinda bad for him after I watched , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6YzqY6jwB8  ,  and I've read some of his stories, and really it didn't seem that bad to me, if anything his stories seem less racist than you might think based on how his aunts raised and isolated him.

Quote from: SHARK on September 07, 2021, 03:12:45 PM

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, like who the fuck cares about the gibbering scum on Twitter?

Let them REEEE! all they want. Fuck them. I don't think anyone here gives a damn about what people on fucking Twitter think.

"Deal With It"? *Laughing* Dealing with a bunch of sniveling, sobbing crybabies isn't difficult at all.

The SJW's hate the list you made up, Ocule! You know they are gnashing their teeth and sobbing in hysterical rage. How do we know this is true?

Just remember the video of the fat white woman wearing glasses falling to her knees and sobbing hysterically at the sky that Trump won the election?

That is the SJW's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"Who cares what Twitter thinks?"

Uh, literally you since you're on this forum right now bitching about it and posting a Red list of companies you hate primarily because they were dicks to you on Twitter.

Honestly, I think people in general are just sick of this whole "Culture War" invading absolutely every corner of society.  You might think "well join us and we'll beat the SJWs!"  You aren't beating anyone, you're getting Corncobbed and being drawn into an unwinnable quagmire.  Yes, I am aware of my contributions to this very thread and you know what I feel stupid for doing it.

This thread and others  like it aren't pushing back or fighting against the problem of identitiarianism, groupthink, and culturekampfing in fandom, they're contributing to it.

Matt Tiabbi wrote a very good article about this called "The Myth of the Winnable Culture War" that I think you should read. Tiabbi is writing about Politics in general but I think it's very relevant. The gist of it is that there's no glorious "Purge" coming. We are not going to be able to just "get rid" of these people we don't like and they are never going to do the same to us. The people we don't like are not going anywhere, we should not engage in the tactics of unanswerable smears because like it or not they'll still be gamers and so will we.  We might as well learn to talk to each other.

If people are playing Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Changed Stars and enjoying it, who cares?  Let them.

"But you see, Torque they won't let us."

No.

You're not going anywhere and neither are they.  They will never march you off to the Gulags no matter how much they might want to.

I'd like to thank Hopladamus for pointing me to Ken St. Andres' twitter thread because I really think that's the point he was trying to make. This Tribalism is toxic and it's killing the hobby.  It's not the "muh SJWs" or "muh Reactionaries" that are doing it, it's the stupid, childish squabbling.

After I posted that thread about Changed Stars, I actually chatted with the creator on reddit and you know what happened?
We had a friendly conversation and a good laugh about it.  Then she offered me a signed copy.  Both I and GrimJim got into it with R Talsorian's PR Flack and we actually realized how we had been talking past each other.  My issues with the "+9 wheelchair of representation" really were objections to the 5e version specifically.  Furthermore, at no point have I or anyone else ever been told "give me a magic flying tank at first level, or I'll call you a bigot on Twitter."

Stop with the tribalism and start engaging with others as people.  You might learn a thing or two.

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 07, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
I know you don't want to hear this but this forum came out of this kerfuffle smelling like a cow pasture.

Twitter absolutely clowned on you and proclaiming you won to your fans while everyone else can see you being Corncobbed is just embarrassing.

You guys got roasted. Deal with it.

...Which was a crucial mistake. If you want for something to go away, marginalise it. If something is irrelevant, ignore it. Don't advertise its existence with a megaphone.

"Gulags." LOL. Do you really think the progressives on RPG Twitter are actually a bunch of tankies?

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 07, 2021, 04:16:39 PM

Quote from: SHARK on September 07, 2021, 03:12:45 PM

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, like who the fuck cares about the gibbering scum on Twitter?

Let them REEEE! all they want. Fuck them. I don't think anyone here gives a damn about what people on fucking Twitter think.

"Deal With It"? *Laughing* Dealing with a bunch of sniveling, sobbing crybabies isn't difficult at all.

The SJW's hate the list you made up, Ocule! You know they are gnashing their teeth and sobbing in hysterical rage. How do we know this is true?

Just remember the video of the fat white woman wearing glasses falling to her knees and sobbing hysterically at the sky that Trump won the election?

That is the SJW's.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"Who cares what Twitter thinks?"

Uh, literally you since you're on this forum right now bitching about it and posting a Red list of companies you hate primarily because they were dicks to you on Twitter.

Honestly, I think people in general are just sick of this whole "Culture War" invading absolutely every corner of society.  You might think "well join us and we'll beat the SJWs!"  You aren't beating anyone, you're getting Corncobbed and being drawn into an unwinnable quagmire.  Yes, I am aware of my contributions to this very thread and you know what I feel stupid for doing it.

This thread and others  like it aren't pushing back or fighting against the problem of identitiarianism, groupthink, and culturekampfing in fandom, they're contributing to it.

Matt Tiabbi wrote a very good article about this called "The Myth of the Winnable Culture War" that I think you should read. Tiabbi is writing about Politics in general but I think it's very relevant. The gist of it is that there's no glorious "Purge" coming. We are not going to be able to just "get rid" of these people we don't like and they are never going to do the same to us. The people we don't like are not going anywhere, we should not engage in the tactics of unanswerable smears because like it or not they'll still be gamers and so will we.  We might as well learn to talk to each other.

If people are playing Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Changed Stars and enjoying it, who cares?  Let them.

"But you see, Torque they won't let us."

No.

You're not going anywhere and neither are they.  They will never march you off to the Gulags no matter how much they might want to.

I'd like to thank Hopladamus for pointing me to Ken St. Andres' twitter thread because I really think that's the point he was trying to make. This Tribalism is toxic and it's killing the hobby.  It's not the "muh SJWs" or "muh Reactionaries" that are doing it, it's the stupid, childish squabbling.

After I posted that thread about Changed Stars, I actually chatted with the creator on reddit and you know what happened?
We had a friendly conversation and a good laugh about it.  Then she offered me a signed copy.  Both I and GrimJim got into it with R Talsorian's PR Flack and we actually realized how we had been talking past each other.  My issues with the "+9 wheelchair of representation" really were objections to the 5e version specifically.  Furthermore, at no point have I or anyone else ever been told "give me a magic flying tank at first level, or I'll call you a bigot on Twitter."

Stop with the tribalism and start engaging with others as people.  You might learn a thing or two.

   I find it strange the tribalism has become toxic now that the SJW's are getting a bit of the reaction they constantly, every day, all day, ask for.   I guess so long as everyone goes along with 'em there is no squabbling, but I rather an honest donnybrook to a cowards' peace. 

In green you have - Ben Laurence (Through Ultan's Door) apolitical


That's wrong. He tweeted about trans men being men/trans women being women along with some other garbage (BLM). I called him out and said something to the effect of - Nope, Nope, and nope. Gaming has always been inclusive, bigot!

Alas, he blocked me.

Quote from: pawsplay on September 07, 2021, 04:34:53 PM
"Gulags." LOL. Do you really think the progressives on RPG Twitter are actually a bunch of tankies?

A very good portion of them are...

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 07, 2021, 04:16:39 PMThis Tribalism is toxic and it's killing the hobby.  It's not the "muh SJWs" or "muh Reactionaries" that are doing it, it's the stupid, childish squabbling.

Stop with the tribalism and start engaging with others as people.  You might learn a thing or two.

You're not wrong, but you're assuming people here haven't tried to engage across various aisles. Many have; I'm one of them. One of the things I learned is that both tribes have to be willing to do it for anything useful to get accomplished by it. Another is that one of these tribes seems a lot more willing to assume that "disagreeing with me at all = not worth engaging with in the first place" than the other. (Have you ever tried expressing the sentiment above -- "Stop with the tribalism and engage others as people" -- to those on the other side of this dispute? What was the general reaction, if you did?)

Those aren't absolutes -- some instances of engagement, like your own, have been successful -- but the tendencies are acute enough that there comes a point where it's hard to fault reasonable people for no longer bothering to try.

Quote from: Torque2100 on September 07, 2021, 02:25:13 PM
I know you don't want to hear this but this forum came out of this kerfuffle smelling like a cow pasture.

Twitter absolutely clowned on you and proclaiming you won to your fans while everyone else can see you being Corncobbed is just embarrassing.

You guys got roasted. Deal with it.

Do you actually believe that people here were looking for approval and acceptance from woke Twitter?  Seriously?

The tribalism is frustrating. I don't always agree with others. Sometimes I can get roped into frustrating arguments. But that doesn't mean I'm going to assume the other person is evil or stupid. Maybe myopic when it comes to certain topics, but who isn't?

I've gotten way more frustrated over the bad writing in StarCraft than I ever have over the culture wars.