Do you know this post exploded on Twitter with outrage everywhere.  There are thousands of people in the TTRPG community crying to each other about how unfair this list is.

Quite hilarious coming from the same group of people that go around trying to cancel anyone and every company who doesn't precisely parrot their values.

Quote from: Palleon on September 06, 2021, 08:40:13 PM

Quote from: Allvaldr on September 06, 2021, 07:46:03 PM
Thanks so much for this list. Didn't realise there was an RPG related forum around still that isn't run by the woke crowd. Saw the list mentioned on a youtube vid so had to look it up.

Anyway, to the list. I don't immediately get how the company/product split it always made? Like, Free League is in yellow, I can see that, and it's deserved - but Symbaroum is listed separately in the green. I can understand Mörk Borg being listed separately since they're just the ones handling distribution pretty much; but isn't Symbaroum entirely Free League owned? Not saying I don't think the product itself doesn't deserve green, but I guess my question is more like ... how do you decide really to judge a company as a whole, vs an individual product?

Better yet is Kobold Press being Green because their artwork was canceled and Red because of a chapter in one of their Guide to... compilation books.

The whole list idea is just bad.  Buy products that capture your imagination.  Ignore the politics of the publishers.

Hey Folks! 
First post from a first-time poster here, but can we get a consensus ruling on Kobold Press?  Or take them off of both the Green and Red lists and put them on the Yellow for now?

Quote from: DM_Curt on September 07, 2021, 07:25:19 AM

Quote from: Palleon on September 06, 2021, 08:40:13 PM

Quote from: Allvaldr on September 06, 2021, 07:46:03 PM
Thanks so much for this list. Didn't realise there was an RPG related forum around still that isn't run by the woke crowd. Saw the list mentioned on a youtube vid so had to look it up.

Anyway, to the list. I don't immediately get how the company/product split it always made? Like, Free League is in yellow, I can see that, and it's deserved - but Symbaroum is listed separately in the green. I can understand Mörk Borg being listed separately since they're just the ones handling distribution pretty much; but isn't Symbaroum entirely Free League owned? Not saying I don't think the product itself doesn't deserve green, but I guess my question is more like ... how do you decide really to judge a company as a whole, vs an individual product?

Better yet is Kobold Press being Green because their artwork was canceled and Red because of a chapter in one of their Guide to... compilation books.

The whole list idea is just bad.  Buy products that capture your imagination.  Ignore the politics of the publishers.

Hey Folks! 
First post from a first-time poster here, but can we get a consensus ruling on Kobold Press?  Or take them off of both the Green and Red lists and put them on the Yellow for now?

Hey sorry about that, a while back they were on twice because I forgot to delete them after moving em. But this was an older copy someone saved so I'll be doing some editing today with some new editions.

TSR Hobbies - Green. They are still around under that name
BRW Games - Green, havnt heard of em before but got some people vouching for em.
Barrowmaze/Greg Gillespie - green.

Symbaroum I didn't realize was free league at the time of publishing so I'll have to dig in and make sure their ratings are all accurate.

Grim and perilous needs a description as to why I placed em where I did
I'll have another look at Goodman games, any links to receipts would be appreciated.
And evil beagle games(Sean Patrick fannon)  is red by request, not sure why anyone would be proud of supporting such behavior but whatever.

I'll be updating the list today, if I got time clean some stuff up and maybe add a foreword.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 07, 2021, 06:56:29 AM

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 07, 2021, 01:04:24 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 09:40:57 PM

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 05, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
All the concern troll piss indicates the list is not actually appreciated by those trying to pretend a bit too often that they are laughing so hard at it.

They're afraid.

You say this, as do others, throughout the thread.

But I am pretty sure that everyone on the red list is aware of the opinion of the people that would put them on the red list. You think it's somehow cringey that people are bragging and laughing about being on the red list, but ... Really? You think that WotC even noticed this list? Or that the people you list as Red due to their actions prior to this list are somehow going to change their mind because they've been assigned a color by a group of people that they obviously weren't concerned about alienating prior to this color thing.

And you talk about "using their tactics against them."  But, eh, so far from my outsider view of this all:  One person is making a list of names, the other is saying "Yeah, I stand behind my products."

In the meantime, I do oppose them defacing your list. I honestly think that the list is totally fine, as is. It'd be especially helpful if you provided some evidence in the list of a company's anti-woke stance, so it's not just the appearance of "We personally like this game" but something above and beyond. Something objectively provable.

I explain exactly what their reaction is all about in my latest video:

Thanks for all the kind words I'm glad people are finding this useful. I'm still kind of shocked anyone really took notice of it, I can probably thank the outrage mob for bringing so much attention to it. Also as for the list having so many osr I think it is mostly due to the fact that osr tends to actually be producing games these days it would be a nightmare to try and go through every dms guild or individual who releases a supplement or adventure on dtrpg.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 07, 2021, 05:51:23 AM

Quote from: MigRib on September 07, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
"Diogo Nogueira who threatened to punch Venger at a the next con he sees him at" Does anybody know in which context this happened?

I don't think Venger should be too worried. 

Yeah, the dude doesn't look menacing at all. That's why I'm curious, what kind of woke rage led him to make a physical threat!

RE: Kobold Press being both Green and Red

Quote from: Ocule on September 07, 2021, 08:09:51 AM

Hey sorry about that, a while back they were on twice because I forgot to delete them after moving em. But this was an older copy someone saved so I'll be doing some editing today with some new editions.

Thanks!

(At least I didn't ask that you edit it for alphabetical order.  )

Quote from: MigRib on September 07, 2021, 08:30:05 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 07, 2021, 05:51:23 AM

Quote from: MigRib on September 07, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
"Diogo Nogueira who threatened to punch Venger at a the next con he sees him at" Does anybody know in which context this happened?

I don't think Venger should be too worried. 

Yeah, the dude doesn't look menacing at all. That's why I'm curious, what kind of woke rage led him to make a physical threat!

It's all hot air with these SJWs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 07, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
I explain exactly what their reaction is all about in my latest video:

Hey Pundit. This video was spot on and explained a lot of what I was thinking about this past weekend. The sjw's complete hypocrisy and lack of integrity is astounding in their reaction to "the list". There is no intellectual honesty amongst 'em. They have literally made lists for years and incorrectly blame people without finding facts. This kerfuffle was on r/osr when Dyson Logos made a statement about it. It's everywhere (not literally speaking, but the sjdubs will latch onto anyway).

What page is the most recent list on if anyone knows? Had to take some days off for wedding planning and that was back when it was only 25 pages 

Also congrats on the recognition and pissing off large swathes of inconsequential do-nothings!

They're upset because the list that exists is based on factual representations of... those companies own actions. Heaven forbid "adults" be responsible for their own choices.

I especially like how they call the RPGSite an "echo chamber" - when this place exists as a direct result of those asshats that have run everyone off with their ideological bullshit. There is more actual diversity here than "there", but they're too stupid to understand it. There are no heated debates on TBP - only posts that elicit the Censorship squad and public shaming in their one-way "struggle session" where everyone is allowed to berate the "offender" of their sensibilities.

It's even more hilarious that on the same vein where they rail about how negatively they perceive the list, they *can't* help themselves to some good ol' fashioned Virtue Signaling by demanding of themselves to be put on the Red List (or the Pink or Black or whatever is "worse").

Quote from: tenbones on September 07, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
I especially like how they call the RPGSite an "echo chamber"

Some superlative logic there eh? I mean, twitter and the tbp not echo chambers at all. 

I feel a little bad about Goodman Games, they seem cool, but I have been noticing they've been getting more pressure from SJW's about inclusivity, and they might start bowing to that, or pay some kind of lip service to it.

And they've made donations to NAACP in honor of BLM.
https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/06/17/charity-donation-from-dcc-days-online/

The echoes of stupidity there make us all dumber.

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on September 07, 2021, 09:49:06 AM
I feel a little bad about Goodman Games, they seem cool, but I have been noticing they've been getting more pressure from SJW's about inclusivity, and they might start bowing to that, or pay some kind of lip service to it.

And they've made donations to NAACP in honor of BLM.
https://goodman-games.com/blog/2020/06/17/charity-donation-from-dcc-days-online/

Yeah that's a bummer for me too.

Quote from: tenbones on September 07, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
They're upset because the list that exists is based on factual representations of... those companies own actions. Heaven forbid "adults" be responsible for their own choices.

  No, that's only when they try to destroy someone's livelihood and career. When we note that some of these people use their platforms to espouse things that not everyone will agree with, it's terrible censorship and narrow-minded bigotry.

  I do have to wonder how many people complaining about the list were part of the #firemikemearls movement.

Quote from: tenbones on September 07, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
They're upset because the list that exists is based on factual representations of... those companies own actions. Heaven forbid "adults" be responsible for their own choices.

I especially like how they call the RPGSite an "echo chamber" - when this place exists as a direct result of those asshats that have run everyone off with their ideological bullshit. There is more actual diversity here than "there", but they're too stupid to understand it. There are no heated debates on TBP - only posts that elicit the Censorship squad and public shaming in their one-way "struggle session" where everyone is allowed to berate the "offender" of their sensibilities.

It's even more hilarious that on the same vein where they rail about how negatively they perceive the list, they *can't* help themselves to some good ol' fashioned Virtue Signaling by demanding of themselves to be put on the Red List (or the Pink or Black or whatever is "worse").

All of that is true.  And yet in some case it is too generous to the dynamic happening.  Sometimes, it's merely that they are developmentally still stuck in the 2-year old mode, where they can't abide someone telling them "No"--even if it is only, "No, I want agree that your thing is great and wonderful and completely beyond reproach, and even so great it makes you a wonderful person merely for saying it."

Some of twitter screaming is the inner toddler coming out.  I know, water is wet, sun rises in the east, news at 11:00.