Quote from: RPGPundit on September 06, 2021, 09:09:57 PM

Oh look, a blatantly transparent YDIS goon!

lol what

I'm pretty sure my registration here pre-dates YDIS, which I barely have any awareness of. Literally I have never read a YDIS in my life.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on September 06, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
When has he ever told them they're unwelcome in gaming anywhere?

You mean like when he called people swine and said they were ruining gaming for everyone, everywhere?

Quote from: Crusader X on September 06, 2021, 09:11:46 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 06, 2021, 09:03:34 PM

Quote from: Crusader X on September 06, 2021, 06:17:10 PM
Greg Gillespie, creator or Barrowmaze, commented on this list on Facebook.  Greg is definitely in the green group.

That's good to hear!

Screenshot?

I sent both you and Ocule a PM.

Yeah, Greg Gillespie/Barrowmaze should definitely be added to the Green list!

Quote from: pawsplay on September 06, 2021, 11:20:36 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on September 06, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
When has he ever told them they're unwelcome in gaming anywhere?

You mean like when he called people swine and said they were ruining gaming for everyone, everywhere?

Ruining gaming doesn't equal people being told not to play I think most narrative games ruin the hobby, but I won't tell people they can't be a part of the hobby because of different ways of play. I can't speak for him [Pundit]. Guess we wait for his answer. 

Quote from: Jason Coplen on September 06, 2021, 11:25:52 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on September 06, 2021, 11:20:36 PM

Quote from: Jason Coplen on September 06, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
When has he ever told them they're unwelcome in gaming anywhere?

You mean like when he called people swine and said they were ruining gaming for everyone, everywhere?

Ruining gaming doesn't equal people being told not to play I think most narrative games ruin the hobby, but I won't tell people they can't be a part of the hobby because of different ways of play. I can't speak for him [Pundit]. Guess we wait for his answer. 

While I have said that certain people shouldn't be part of the hobby, "ways of play" has never been a category by which I  judged that. If you really want to play D&D wrong, you can go ahead and do that as far as I'm concerned.

For your consideration to be added to the GREEN group:

- BRW Games (creators of Adventures Dark and Deep RPG, the Castle of the Mad Archmage megadungeon adventure, and a number of adventures, supplements, and accessories)

https://www.brwgames.com/2018/11/05/official-statement-on-politics/?fbclid=IwAR2OJi3AbwJ-TCROqehHE8s3nEof2YCoFfn_ANo5ctdvp2iulP3AMWFSJvI

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 09:40:57 PM

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 05, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
All the concern troll piss indicates the list is not actually appreciated by those trying to pretend a bit too often that they are laughing so hard at it.

They're afraid.

You say this, as do others, throughout the thread.

But I am pretty sure that everyone on the red list is aware of the opinion of the people that would put them on the red list. You think it's somehow cringey that people are bragging and laughing about being on the red list, but ... Really? You think that WotC even noticed this list? Or that the people you list as Red due to their actions prior to this list are somehow going to change their mind because they've been assigned a color by a group of people that they obviously weren't concerned about alienating prior to this color thing.

And you talk about "using their tactics against them."  But, eh, so far from my outsider view of this all:  One person is making a list of names, the other is saying "Yeah, I stand behind my products."

In the meantime, I do oppose them defacing your list. I honestly think that the list is totally fine, as is. It'd be especially helpful if you provided some evidence in the list of a company's anti-woke stance, so it's not just the appearance of "We personally like this game" but something above and beyond. Something objectively provable.

I'm adding my voice as another vote to place Goodman Games solidly in the Red Category. Their coddling and relentless promotion of "Jennell" Jaquays and his products alone, should merit it, coupled with their BLM and ADL support. Jaquays has been belching forth an endless screed against anyone who isn't woke, specifically attacking conservative gamers for being so and openly alienating anyone who doesn't march in political lockstep, to the point of wishing them death. It's a shame really, he was a decent and thoughtful guy, once upon a time.

I also believe giving artists an automatic pass is troublesome, since a great many are now crossing over into writing products themselves, Luka Rejec and Scrap Princess come to mind. I for one put a lot of value on art and I believe it does influence the tone of a product. There's nothing that turns me away from a game faster than painfully woke cover art.

TSR believes that games are a form of art.  Games should be protected by the First Amendment just as any other art form.

TSR believes in the First Amendment protection of creators and that they should be allowed the freedom to create what they want.

TSR is an American Publishing Company and believes in championing these freedoms.

Just imagine where humanity would be if Homer was silenced and told, "You can't tell those stories, the Odyssey and Iliad make people have nightmares about cyclops!"

Fantastic works of fiction have been with us for a long time, they have allowed us to explore strange new worlds, ride the dusty plains, explore the oceans depths, ride luck dragons and more.

If creators are not protected they can be filled with fear instead of wonder.  Fear of reprisal, boycotts, loss of income, and cancellation. The only way that what if, can overcome I can't is if the creator is allowed the freedom to ask the question, what if, and answer it freely without fear.

TSR is proud to be part of that rich legacy, and will always champion the absolute freedom of the creators that work with us. There is a certain kind of magic that happens when something is created.

TSR looks forward to continuing this tradition with the creation and publication of new games and media that will bring to light the fruits of that history and plant the seeds for the future.

-JL

Quote from: Squidi on September 06, 2021, 08:56:15 PM

Quote from: Allvaldr on September 06, 2021, 07:46:03 PMAnyway, to the list. I don't immediately get how the company/product split it always made? Like, Free League is in yellow, I can see that, and it's deserved - but Symbaroum is listed separately in the green. I can understand Mörk Borg being listed separately since they're just the ones handling distribution pretty much; but isn't Symbaroum entirely Free League owned? Not saying I don't think the product itself doesn't deserve green, but I guess my question is more like ... how do you decide really to judge a company as a whole, vs an individual product?

It's my understanding that Free League now owns Symbaroum and brought the developers in house, but initially they were just publishers. I don't think this change has resulted in any content changes though (they recently reprinted some earlier adventures in a collection). But based on their YouTube updates, it seems to me like the Symbaroum is still a separate, independent team, and the people working on the Mutant Year Zero games are a different team.

But yeah, at this point, Free League fully owns Symbaroum, so it probably doesn't deserve the Mork Borg separation.

OK, maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Symbaroum was the original Free League game, that they already developed in Swedish before they even got the license for Mutant. While Free League developed the Year Zero rules system, the Mutant IP is licensed and not owned.

But it's kinda difficult to grasp from the outside because of all the mergers and so on that happened in the past decade in the Swedish RPG scene, so as mentioned I might be misremembering.

"Diogo Nogueira who threatened to punch Venger at a the next con he sees him at" Does anybody know in which context this happened?

Quote from: MigRib on September 07, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
"Diogo Nogueira who threatened to punch Venger at a the next con he sees him at" Does anybody know in which context this happened?

I don't think Venger should be too worried. 

   So, some people are commenting as to how the existence of some list (which is honestly a work in progress) is approaching a form of virtue signal or censorship is bad.   I made pretty clear earlier in this thread, I have no issue with most artists political views (though honestly, the best thing for an artist is for NO ONE to know their political views publicly) so long as they do not decide to go out and declare anyone who has my point of view should not be able to function in society or tell me they do not want my money.   If someone tells me they do not want my money, I will oblige them.  If someone has made it quite clear through prior action they will attempt to professionally end people (do all they can to ensure the person is unemployable) that is a very serious matter to me.  It is essentially a complete coward's method of trying to kill someone.  Can not make money, can not function, can not function leads people down a dark road IMO.   I take that sort of thing MUCH more seriously than threats of actual harm, because time and again that crew has shown they will attempt to end careers.   

   What I find funny, is the people outside of the forum are bringing up the list, as if it were something to laugh about.  Other people say people are laughing at people here.  Who really cares?  I do think it might be important for people to have a list of products and creators who do in fact publicly endorse people who have some of the views I have should not exist in professional society.   Is it a way for people who feel as I do to perhaps hit back in the bank accounts of people who if given the chance would end me and other like me professionally?  Yes.  Are the people making this list looking to destroy those people's careers?  No.  Just like I do not attempt to destroy cigarettes or Soda makers.  If people want that product, more power to them.  I wont buy them, they are not for me. 

   I can also understand why some people, beyond contrarian tendencies, might want to complain about the list or making the list and how "no one wants to end you" as an excuse.   10 years ago I would have agreed with that point of view.  But now?  only a complete fool misses there are people ready to pounce on one public misstep and run it as far as it can take them to ending a career.   

Quote from: Terry LMD on September 07, 2021, 12:37:53 AM
For your consideration to be added to the GREEN group:

- BRW Games (creators of Adventures Dark and Deep RPG, the Castle of the Mad Archmage megadungeon adventure, and a number of adventures, supplements, and accessories)

https://www.brwgames.com/2018/11/05/official-statement-on-politics/?fbclid=IwAR2OJi3AbwJ-TCROqehHE8s3nEof2YCoFfn_ANo5ctdvp2iulP3AMWFSJvI

Yes, Joseph Bloch is definitely one of the good guys.

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 07, 2021, 01:04:24 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 09:40:57 PM

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 05, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
All the concern troll piss indicates the list is not actually appreciated by those trying to pretend a bit too often that they are laughing so hard at it.

They're afraid.

You say this, as do others, throughout the thread.

But I am pretty sure that everyone on the red list is aware of the opinion of the people that would put them on the red list. You think it's somehow cringey that people are bragging and laughing about being on the red list, but ... Really? You think that WotC even noticed this list? Or that the people you list as Red due to their actions prior to this list are somehow going to change their mind because they've been assigned a color by a group of people that they obviously weren't concerned about alienating prior to this color thing.

And you talk about "using their tactics against them."  But, eh, so far from my outsider view of this all:  One person is making a list of names, the other is saying "Yeah, I stand behind my products."

In the meantime, I do oppose them defacing your list. I honestly think that the list is totally fine, as is. It'd be especially helpful if you provided some evidence in the list of a company's anti-woke stance, so it's not just the appearance of "We personally like this game" but something above and beyond. Something objectively provable.

I explain exactly what their reaction is all about in my latest video: