So good to have this list. I for one really want to know what companies I give my money to are about. I for one have seen many forms of woke media. From comics, to films,rpgs,ect. The one thing they all share is they all on a fundamental level miss their mark and suck.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 01:52:08 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 01:10:04 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 12:33:37 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 10:17:20 AM
Agreed, if the game is good the game is good.

Except a lot of folks don't believe that. You might be but a seeming majority aren't. When a creator's politics or personal beliefs come up that "taints" their content. Look at Orson Scott Card, the poster child for 'cancelling'. His personal beliefs on same sex marriage 'caused' (free to speak, not free from consequences) his 'cancellation'. Or the most recent comments by Sandy Peterson, now people won't buy from Chaosium.

Your argument is weak.

My argument that I believe "if a game is good, then a game is good" is weak because Sandy Peterson and Orson Scott Card were cancelled. Ok. Trying to understand what that has to do with my belief.

Is my argument weak? Or is the argument you have built up in your head as mine weak?

Fair enough. I see your point. My point, which I hope came across, is that the majority does not separate creator from content. Pundit's products have, as far as the products I have, no modern political statements in them. But because pundit is vocal people won't buy his games, despite them being good games, as you said yourself. So if pundits or vengers games are good people still won't buy them. Heck, Arrows of Indra has a trans person on the cover.

Contrast that with WotC, who are actively, and admittedly, changing games for modern political reasons.

The majority of what? The majority of Twitter users? Don't base your reality in social media and you'll have a happier existence.

As for Pundit's products, I don't buy much of anything anympre based on D&D rules. If he wants to make Lion & Dragon MERP (or Against the Darkmaster) compatible or as a module for Shadow of the Demon Lord*, then I'll pick it up. However, I never enjoyed the old D&D rules enough to ever want to suffer through using them again even if the setting material is fantastic. I could convert it myself, but that's prep time I'd rather spend crafting adventures/stuff that actually comes up at the table.

* Did play in a group that used an adaptation of the L&D social classes in Against the Darkmaster to good effect.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 06, 2021, 02:02:51 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 01:52:08 PM
Fair enough. I see your point. My point, which I hope came across, is that the majority does not separate creator from content. Pundit's products have, as far as the products I have, no modern political statements in them. But because pundit is vocal people won't buy his games, despite them being good games, as you said yourself. So if pundits or vengers games are good people still won't buy them. Heck, Arrows of Indra has a trans person on the cover.

Contrast that with WotC, who are actively, and admittedly, changing games for modern political reasons.

The majority of what? The majority of Twitter users? Don't base your reality in social media and you'll have a happier existence.

As for Pundit's products, I don't buy much of anything anympre based on D&D rules. If he wants to make Lion & Dragon MERP (or Against the Darkmaster) compatible or as a module for Shadow of the Demon Lord*, then I'll pick it up. However, I never enjoyed the old D&D rules enough to ever want to suffer through using them again even if the setting material is fantastic. I could convert it myself, but that's prep time I'd rather spend crafting adventures/stuff that actually comes up at the table.

* Did play in a group that used an adaptation of the L&D social classes in Against the Darkmaster to good effect.

Yes, I agree. I am basing off of twitter and big purple. So I agree, they are not a true 'majority'. And definitely agree on a happier existence not based on social media.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 01:52:08 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 01:10:04 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 12:33:37 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 10:17:20 AM
Agreed, if the game is good the game is good.

Except a lot of folks don't believe that. You might be but a seeming majority aren't. When a creator's politics or personal beliefs come up that "taints" their content. Look at Orson Scott Card, the poster child for 'cancelling'. His personal beliefs on same sex marriage 'caused' (free to speak, not free from consequences) his 'cancellation'. Or the most recent comments by Sandy Peterson, now people won't buy from Chaosium.

Your argument is weak.

My argument that I believe "if a game is good, then a game is good" is weak because Sandy Peterson and Orson Scott Card were cancelled. Ok. Trying to understand what that has to do with my belief.

Is my argument weak? Or is the argument you have built up in your head as mine weak?

Fair enough. I see your point. My point, which I hope came across, is that the majority does not separate creator from content. Pundit's products have, as far as the products I have, no modern political statements in them. But because pundit is vocal people won't buy his games, despite them being good games, as you said yourself. So if pundits or vengers games are good people still won't buy them.

I don't know how to quote without getting the whole thing in, so please forgive me. Typing this on a phone.

Ok. So if I can give my own opinion on this, and it echoes what HappyDaze said before: guys like pundit have an expertise in game design that I can appreciate. I like learning how to run my games better. I think GMing is a skill that requires constant development and I've been a lifelong learner in that regard.

I don't own pundits game. I can't speak to his whether his game is good or not, my comment was more of a general statement to echo HappyDaze. I can state that many people seem to like his game and I can respect that.

Let me be clear: I do not own his or Vengers game because I don't have an interest in the content (medieval realism or generally anything Cthulian). I'm likely getting that wrong or over generalizing, but my point is that my lack of purchase has nothing to do with their vocal stances and everything to do with "what I have seen thus far in terms of game content isn't my bag". I will not and have not advocated for people not to buy their works nor will I because, as Grim stated in his recent YouTube video, that's a personal preference and not my job to tell people what not to buy. That includes Sandy Peterson.

But I agree about the inability to separate the work from the creator. I believe everyone has a line, some draw that line really close and some people have yet to find that line. I have a line on that, an example being the director of Jeepers Creepers. I can't tolerate the idea of a man convicted of pedophilism being able to take my money so I (unfortunately) have never finished the trilogy.

Thorn, I had a point but I think I got lost in My thoughts.

Oh I get having a preference in games. I don't like any game based on IP (so no LotR). I don't like any game based .... ish in real world (like CoC), or really anything tied to the "real" world for that matter. So I know people love and have fun with those games and more power to them. I just don't want that. I have limited time and resources so I'll play/buy what I like.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 06, 2021, 01:16:31 PM
One thing about Orsen Scott Card. It was way more than just his opinions on homosexuality. I mean, he's actively campaigning and funding against gay marriage. If you look into it he's a total scum bag. I would vehemently oppose his views on homosexuality.

I totally hear ya on Card. But what is one person's scum is another person's hero. History is replete with it. And don't get me wrong, I agree, what Card did was wrong, but it doesn't stop me from rereading the Ender books. Some of my favorites. Does that mean I support his world view? Not at all. But some would call me wrong for my liking of his work.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 02:17:58 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 06, 2021, 01:16:31 PM
One thing about Orsen Scott Card. It was way more than just his opinions on homosexuality. I mean, he's actively campaigning and funding against gay marriage. If you look into it he's a total scum bag. I would vehemently oppose his views on homosexuality.

I totally hear ya on Card. But what is one person's scum is another person's hero. History is replete with it. And don't get me wrong, I agree, what Card did was wrong, but it doesn't stop me from rereading the Ender books. Some of my favorites. Does that mean I support his world view? Not at all. But some would call me wrong for my liking of his work.

If I can interject here, I also just didn't care for his ultimate iron man run. That was what put me off his writing.

Bedrock Games should go in yellow. The creator has pandered by stating his Arrows of Indra was trans inclusive before it was cool.

Quote from: pawsplay on September 06, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
Bedrock Games should go in yellow. The creator has pandered by stating his Arrows of Indra was trans inclusive before it was cool.

I mean India = ladyboys lol.

Quote from: pawsplay on September 06, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
Bedrock Games should go in yellow. The creator has pandered by stating his Arrows of Indra was trans inclusive before it was cool.

Uhhhhhhh, I may be dense, and you're just being sarcastic, but you do know who wrote Arrows of Indra right?

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 09:40:25 AM
We have always known you are "fighting back" (if you call telling the same 8 people you are big mad fighting back), you do that literally every week with some new post or comment or blog video.

This is the most self inflated "echo chamber" I have seen, a bunch of people sitting around gleefully thinking they have made people big mad and not a one of you seems to catch on that the red list is a joke to us.

No butthurt. No seething beneath the surface. No rage. It's legit hilarious.

Dude. You made a guide to shop by values, who is upset by that? You also left it open to be edited to the public, how are people NOT going to laugh at that?

You'll  pat yourselves on the back so much, I'm surprised we haven't seen photos of permanent hand print scars with claims of sjw attacks on your person.

U mad, bro?

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 06, 2021, 10:00:21 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 06, 2021, 09:53:16 AM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 09:40:25 AM

No butthurt. No seething beneath the surface. No rage. It's legit hilarious.

No one cares what a bunch of SJW gimps think. This is a list made purely for us evil doers. I personally, couldn't give a fig whether you find it hilarious or loath it. No skin of my my man tits... It's for informational purposes only.

Although, I do find it deliciously ironic, that they 'care' so little, they take the time to sign up to Pundit's forum just to tell us all about it.  Says it all really...

Kinda like how Pundit and his subscribers care so little about what WotC does yet they all have to tell us about the evil leftists and their craziness all the time.

Say what you will about the RPG Pundit, he made D&D great again.  Without him, we probably wouldn't be talking about 5e or any version of D&D after 2nd edition.

Quote from: mathew6987 on September 06, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
@ocule I cant believe you would post something like this showing the world that you are a such a bad person on the inside. You literally must be lacking in all morals to think that being kind to people is a bad thing. You are the reason the world is a worse place than it needs to be. You only bring anger, and sadness to this world. Remember all anger comes from fear so you need to look inside and find out what you are really afraid of.

This list is a cry for help from a scared little guy who thinks that big bad different man/woman is gonna come and take all his privileges that he didn't earn himself. He knows without those he will be even more left out than he is now b/c he cant do life unless everyone thinks he is special. I mean seriously when did you become so weak and small that this is what matters to you?

Your list is an act of hate. You are not fighting against anything except the inclusion of others into this great hobby. And you are right Companies hate you just like the rest of us do. we all want you and your hateful kind to just go away forever and never speak again you are the worst of us and make the whole hobby look bad with your ignorance and just plain stupidity.

BE A GOOD PERSON!!

Well, I'm convinced.  I know it's a bit late, but can I go vote for Joe Biden now?

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 02:07:01 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 01:52:08 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 01:10:04 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on September 06, 2021, 12:33:37 PM

Quote from: Marcelus14 on September 06, 2021, 10:17:20 AM
Agreed, if the game is good the game is good.

Except a lot of folks don't believe that. You might be but a seeming majority aren't. When a creator's politics or personal beliefs come up that "taints" their content. Look at Orson Scott Card, the poster child for 'cancelling'. His personal beliefs on same sex marriage 'caused' (free to speak, not free from consequences) his 'cancellation'. Or the most recent comments by Sandy Peterson, now people won't buy from Chaosium.

Your argument is weak.

My argument that I believe "if a game is good, then a game is good" is weak because Sandy Peterson and Orson Scott Card were cancelled. Ok. Trying to understand what that has to do with my belief.

Is my argument weak? Or is the argument you have built up in your head as mine weak?

Fair enough. I see your point. My point, which I hope came across, is that the majority does not separate creator from content. Pundit's products have, as far as the products I have, no modern political statements in them. But because pundit is vocal people won't buy his games, despite them being good games, as you said yourself. So if pundits or vengers games are good people still won't buy them.

I don't know how to quote without getting the whole thing in, so please forgive me. Typing this on a phone.

Ok. So if I can give my own opinion on this, and it echoes what HappyDaze said before: guys like pundit have an expertise in game design that I can appreciate. I like learning how to run my games better. I think GMing is a skill that requires constant development and I've been a lifelong learner in that regard.

I don't own pundits game. I can't speak to his whether his game is good or not, my comment was more of a general statement to echo HappyDaze. I can state that many people seem to like his game and I can respect that.

Let me be clear: I do not own his or Vengers game because I don't have an interest in the content (medieval realism or generally anything Cthulian). I'm likely getting that wrong or over generalizing, but my point is that my lack of purchase has nothing to do with their vocal stances and everything to do with "what I have seen thus far in terms of game content isn't my bag". I will not and have not advocated for people not to buy their works nor will I because, as Grim stated in his recent YouTube video, that's a personal preference and not my job to tell people what not to buy. That includes Sandy Peterson.

But I agree about the inability to separate the work from the creator. I believe everyone has a line, some draw that line really close and some people have yet to find that line. I have a line on that, an example being the director of Jeepers Creepers. I can't tolerate the idea of a man convicted of pedophilism being able to take my money so I (unfortunately) have never finished the trilogy.

Thorn, I had a point but I think I got lost in My thoughts.

I wish I had the foresight to never see Jeepers Creepers 2.  It's just awful, you're not missing anything.  I love the first, bought the blu-ray on clearance a couple of Halloweens ago.  I also think that pedophilia is one of the worst crimes you can commit, so...

Quote from: VengerSatanis on September 06, 2021, 04:52:23 PM

Quote from: mathew6987 on September 06, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
@ocule I cant believe you would post something like this showing the world that you are a such a bad person on the inside. You literally must be lacking in all morals to think that being kind to people is a bad thing. You are the reason the world is a worse place than it needs to be. You only bring anger, and sadness to this world. Remember all anger comes from fear so you need to look inside and find out what you are really afraid of.

This list is a cry for help from a scared little guy who thinks that big bad different man/woman is gonna come and take all his privileges that he didn't earn himself. He knows without those he will be even more left out than he is now b/c he cant do life unless everyone thinks he is special. I mean seriously when did you become so weak and small that this is what matters to you?

Your list is an act of hate. You are not fighting against anything except the inclusion of others into this great hobby. And you are right Companies hate you just like the rest of us do. we all want you and your hateful kind to just go away forever and never speak again you are the worst of us and make the whole hobby look bad with your ignorance and just plain stupidity.

BE A GOOD PERSON!!

Well, I'm convinced.  I know it's a bit late, but can I go vote for Joe Biden now?

You're not dead yet, my friend. Request denied.