Quote from: Aglondir on May 12, 2024, 07:11:43 PMIs that a quote from G-troll? (starting with "I was looking...")

Yes.  It's from a topic he started on TBP.

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 12, 2024, 08:30:40 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on May 12, 2024, 07:11:43 PMIs that a quote from G-troll? (starting with "I was looking...")

Yes.  It's from a topic he started on TBP.

I am sorry to see that. Dark Dungeon X is released under the OGL and Public Domain. I have looted, err, adapted parts of that for my home system. So I plan on separating the artist from the art. To bad. I really enjoyed his earlier work. See https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/2023/10/01/light-fantasy-kickstarter-is-live/ from his website for the full, unvarnished version. So the decent into madness begins.

Quote from: Aglondir on May 12, 2024, 07:11:43 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 12, 2024, 12:00:13 AMSo, Gurbintroll has decided that Dark Dungeons is regressive, problematic and in need of a sensitivity reading.

I was looking through Dark Dungeons today, and after having done Light Fantasy it is looking positively regressive.

It's not just the simple things like the race-as-class and the monsters, it's deeper things like the whole chapter on settling the wilderness and building a domain is pretty damn colonialist and there are things there like Raise Dead only working on humans and demihumans because other humanoids don't have souls (only spirits), and other humanoids not having proper clerics and magic-users, only lesser shamans and sorcerers (and of course that last one is a double-whammy in that not only are orcs and the like given shamans instead of clerics, those shamans are objectively inferior to clerics).

Now this is all stuff that the game inherited from its BECMI and RC roots, but that's not the point. It just makes me cringe when I read it now.

So, since next year is going to be the game's 15th anniversary, I thought I'd start a major overhaul of the game.

Some thoughts include:

1) Lose the race-as-class and convert those classes into Light Fantasy style classes, where ancestry has no mechanical effect on the game.

2) Lose all the monsters that are actually different ancestries of people.

3) It's not going to focus on the weird like Light Fantasy does. The feel will still be more traditional D&D (although it will still have immortals and flying ships and the like).

4) Give everything as good a sensitivity reading as I can, to see if anything else is problematic.

Hey Yosemitemike,

Is that a quote from G-troll? (starting with "I was looking...")

I'm not Mike, but it's a quote. I saw the same dumb fucking post.

Quote from: swzl on May 13, 2024, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 12, 2024, 08:30:40 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on May 12, 2024, 07:11:43 PMIs that a quote from G-troll? (starting with "I was looking...")

Yes.  It's from a topic he started on TBP.

I am sorry to see that. Dark Dungeon X is released under the OGL and Public Domain. I have looted, err, adapted parts of that for my home system. So I plan on separating the artist from the art. To bad. I really enjoyed his earlier work. See https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/2023/10/01/light-fantasy-kickstarter-is-live/ from his website for the full, unvarnished version. So the decent into madness begins.

Is any of Dark Dungeons useful or did the rot set in back then? I was thinking of grabbing a copy.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 13, 2024, 12:44:49 PM

Quote from: swzl on May 13, 2024, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on May 12, 2024, 08:30:40 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on May 12, 2024, 07:11:43 PMIs that a quote from G-troll? (starting with "I was looking...")

Yes.  It's from a topic he started on TBP.

I am sorry to see that. Dark Dungeon X is released under the OGL and Public Domain. I have looted, err, adapted parts of that for my home system. So I plan on separating the artist from the art. To bad. I really enjoyed his earlier work. See https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/2023/10/01/light-fantasy-kickstarter-is-live/ from his website for the full, unvarnished version. So the decent into madness begins.

Is any of Dark Dungeons useful or did the rot set in back then? I was thinking of grabbing a copy.

I don't see any issues with his work through Dark Dungeon X. They seem to be adaptions from the originals.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 13, 2024, 12:44:49 PMIs any of Dark Dungeons useful or did the rot set in back then? I was thinking of grabbing a copy.

The original post is from 5-2-24.  I don't think they have had time to actually implement these changes and come out with a new version yet.

So question, how long is the redemption period on a company? While companies like Evil Hat continue to be who they are, let's take one of the milder ones. Pelgrane published Cthulhu Confidential 7 years ago, and the line in question was most likely from Chris Spivey who is no longer affiliated with the company. So, the question is, what has Pelgrane done since then? Is a company just a permanent pariah from that point forward with no hope of ever coming back. I can see Paizo, WotC, Evil Hat and ones like that who continue to promote the same drivel, but shouldn't there be a statute of limitations that if they don't continue to spout nonsense in their products, they can be moved up the list just as one could be moved down or added?

(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

Quote from: Neonsmri on May 19, 2024, 10:07:26 AM(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

What exactly are you talking about here--LAMs, or...?

Quote from: HappyDaze on May 19, 2024, 11:11:08 AM

Quote from: Neonsmri on May 19, 2024, 10:07:26 AM(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

What exactly are you talking about here--LAMs, or...?

This made me laugh way harder then it should have. 

Quote from: Neonsmri on May 19, 2024, 10:07:26 AM(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

If you think a company should move from this category to that category, make the case.

Quote from: jaseoffire on October 22, 2022, 11:03:03 PMAhh. Right, I was looking through the list, looking to see the status of a studio I am getting an admittedly free product from for curiosity sake, when I ran across TSR Hobbies. Considering their lack of product, is it appropriate for them to be on the list at all? So far the only content they've seemed to generate is legal documents for the various legal battles they're involved in.

You mean the fake TSR? The one that tried and failed to make a racist fake Star Frontiers?

That (not)TSR is on the list for a reason.

Quote from: Neonsmri on May 19, 2024, 10:07:26 AMSo question, how long is the redemption period on a company? While companies like Evil Hat continue to be who they are, let's take one of the milder ones. Pelgrane published Cthulhu Confidential 7 years ago, and the line in question was most likely from Chris Spivey who is no longer affiliated with the company. So, the question is, what has Pelgrane done since then? Is a company just a permanent pariah from that point forward with no hope of ever coming back. I can see Paizo, WotC, Evil Hat and ones like that who continue to promote the same drivel, but shouldn't there be a statute of limitations that if they don't continue to spout nonsense in their products, they can be moved up the list just as one could be moved down or added?

(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

How many times are you supposed to trust the scorpion and give it a ride, and then get stung, before you just up and refuse to give it a ride again.

So far once a company has been co-opted it usually either stays co-opted or will flip back to being co-opted whenever it is convenient to push the agenda again.

FFG for example.

Quote from: Neonsmri on May 19, 2024, 10:07:26 AMSo question, how long is the redemption period on a company? While companies like Evil Hat continue to be who they are, let's take one of the milder ones. Pelgrane published Cthulhu Confidential 7 years ago, and the line in question was most likely from Chris Spivey who is no longer affiliated with the company. So, the question is, what has Pelgrane done since then? Is a company just a permanent pariah from that point forward with no hope of ever coming back. I can see Paizo, WotC, Evil Hat and ones like that who continue to promote the same drivel, but shouldn't there be a statute of limitations that if they don't continue to spout nonsense in their products, they can be moved up the list just as one could be moved down or added?

(But then the list is pretty static, and even with Catalyst going Full woke, firing Blaine Pardo, embracing and promoting Trans mechs, and hiring a super woke community manager that has attempted to purge anyone right of Stalin out of the community, it is still sitting on yellow)

I suppose the answer is until they prove repeatedly over time that they don't belong there anymore and anyone who contributed to putting them on that list (whether creative or executive) is gone.   They choose by their words/actions to get their and that's how they choose to get off.   A decade ago I'd have said when the crazies complain that they're not "politically correct" enough but their supposed line in the sand is a doodle on a dune in a sandstorm that shifts with every wind gust for the woke; what was supposedly tolerant a decade ago is at best just not good enough nowadays.

Woke bullshit is like the dark side of the force. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on May 20, 2024, 01:32:34 PMWoke bullshit is like the dark side of the force. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Much like the path of those that crusade against it, right?