Quote from: Fheredin on October 21, 2022, 05:30:29 PM

Quote from: Ocule on October 19, 2022, 11:11:21 PM

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The downsides to rippertech which is conceptually awesome, are the sanity loss which is you actually becoming more monstrous, plus the social downsides and the risk of becoming a ripper. Your upside is well a small buff in toughness, an attribute or supernatural ability. The only thing is as written the bad guys are very beatable without ever touching rippertech. IMO to do the setting justice you need to amp up the bad guys to make rippertech essential to their survival.

I can see both sides of that. Part of the problem may be that Savage Worlds simply doesn't handle higher difficulty that gracefully, so increasing the difficulty won't necessarily make Rippertech mandatory so much as make the flaws in the system painfully obvious. But as someone who has dabbled with it for a while, I have a theory as to why PEG flinched on making Rippertech mandatory. Biotranshumanism is a really dangerous worldbuilding trope because it can trigger things like hidden phobias or injury or surgery PTSD in the player in ways that vanilla insanity mechanics rarely do. In fact, I'd say that biotranshumanism is second only to explicit sexual assault at making players crave safety tools. It's really good at causing problems. Far better than its cousin genre, cybertranshumanism (a la Cyberpunk.)

If you're like me and do not want players to want safety tools and you certainly don't want them to hit the table, you have two options:

• Make a very explicit social contract to the game which tries to prevent safety tool situations from forming, and
• Make any Biotranshuman elements optional.

I don't see any RPG publisher of note pushing a setting which makes biotranshumanism mandatory. It isn't that experienced players can't make it work (in fact, they can probably do it with ease) but that even experienced players will likely assume its just a different flavor of cyberpunk. It's not and that attitude can get you in trouble very fast.

Hmm, I've never heard of biotranshumanism being triggering before. That's a new one. Then again, body horror is called horror for a reason. Transhumanism is an interesting can of worms in its own right, though. Being Humanity's largest screw you to nature.

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 21, 2022, 05:42:48 PM

Despite a long history of liking Chaosium products as much as SJG products (since the late 70s for the former and arguably the latter although the company at the time did not exist and the games were published by MetaGaming) I find the Chaosium sheet change a bigger warning sign that the games might start having their fun impacted in a way SJ's pronouncement about abortion a few months ago or his game designers for Hillary thing because while he put stuff on the company website it still isn't in the game materials.

Once it hits the game materials I worry the game will be lost for the message.

There are exceptions, but even then it lowers the game's appeal.  Underground by Mayfair back in the 90s is my go-to example of that. At a certain point, the anti-conservative parody overtook the fun of the setting.

This point mainly is what I was thinking about. Then again, people would like to know what they're supporting, even if indirectly. Which makes donations a weird territory. On one hand, you don't want to support bad actors...On the other hand, even some more liberally minded people said Chick-Fil-A could punch their mother and they'd still eat there. Not that these situations are exactly equivalent. This list is more about informing people with respect to a narrow set of guide markers, not a boycott of any type. I still think that SJG is straddling that line, but is ultimately yellow, but I can see the arguments to the contrary. As a side note of irony, I like how some publishers said red is good company when one of them is an organization of literal Yahtzees. LOL!!!

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 21, 2022, 05:42:48 PM

Despite a long history of liking Chaosium products as much as SJG products (since the late 70s for the former and arguably the latter although the company at the time did not exist and the games were published by MetaGaming) I find the Chaosium sheet change a bigger warning sign that the games might start having their fun impacted in a way SJ's pronouncement about abortion a few months ago or his game designers for Hillary thing because while he put stuff on the company website it still isn't in the game materials.

For me it is now past the point of if it interferes with the game or not. If some doofus thinks that they must proclaim their political stance within the game I'm not going to support it. For Chaosium I'm still tempted to order some of their Runequest Glorantha stuff, and I think that it's relatively free of woke nonsense (a bit heavy on beating the "woman warrior" horse but then that has always been part of the Runequest image.)

Quote from: jaseoffire on October 21, 2022, 08:07:05 PM

Quote from: PulpHerb on October 21, 2022, 05:42:48 PM

Despite a long history of liking Chaosium products as much as SJG products (since the late 70s for the former and arguably the latter although the company at the time did not exist and the games were published by MetaGaming) I find the Chaosium sheet change a bigger warning sign that the games might start having their fun impacted in a way SJ's pronouncement about abortion a few months ago or his game designers for Hillary thing because while he put stuff on the company website it still isn't in the game materials.

Once it hits the game materials I worry the game will be lost for the message.

There are exceptions, but even then it lowers the game's appeal.  Underground by Mayfair back in the 90s is my go-to example of that. At a certain point, the anti-conservative parody overtook the fun of the setting.

This point mainly is what I was thinking about. Then again, people would like to know what they're supporting, even if indirectly. Which makes donations a weird territory. On one hand, you don't want to support bad actors...On the other hand, even some more liberally minded people said Chick-Fil-A could punch their mother and they'd still eat there. Not that these situations are exactly equivalent. This list is more about informing people with respect to a narrow set of guide markers, not a boycott of any type. I still think that SJG is straddling that line, but is ultimately yellow, but I can see the arguments to the contrary. As a side note of irony, I like how some publishers said red is good company when one of them is an organization of literal Yahtzees. LOL!!!

This is the point of the list.  It allows gamers to read specifically what companies have done,and let each user decide for himself whether or not it's a company he wants to support.  Even if we don't agree on the color, the list details specifics so we can make an informed choice.

Quote from: wmarshal on October 18, 2022, 08:00:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on October 18, 2022, 07:25:48 PM
They could have just reworded "sex" as "gender", and would still have had full plausible deniability in terms of it being any attack on gamers.

But no, they chose to use "PRONOUNS", in a game set in the 1920s. A total anachronism. An intentional assault on the setting and a fuck you to its fans (who are notoriously meticulous about historical accuracy).

Replacing 'sex' with 'gender' may have been more era appropriate. I think many at the time tried to avoid the 's' word. Going to 'pronouns' instead is not just a virtue signal, but an attempt to force players towards being Woke.

Set in the 20s?  My 1935 Webster's dictionary defines Gender as a noun meaning "the grammatical distinction of sex", and Sex as a noun meaning "the physical distinction between male and female".  John Money, born in 1921, would go on to introduce the term "gender role" and popularize "gender identity" during his adulthood.  I believe the use of "gender" as an overlay of "sex" actually followed that, but even if it preceded it, there's no way that was true in the 1920s.  In the 1920s, no one used "gender" to mean "sex", and assuredly no one had come up with personalized or chosen pronouns.

Quote from: Venka on October 22, 2022, 11:50:44 AM
Set in the 20s?  My 1935 Webster's dictionary defines Gender as a noun meaning "the grammatical distinction of sex", and Sex as a noun meaning "the physical distinction between male and female".  John Money, born in 1921, would go on to introduce the term "gender role" and popularize "gender identity" during his adulthood.  I believe the use of "gender" as an overlay of "sex" actually followed that, but even if it preceded it, there's no way that was true in the 1920s.  In the 1920s, no one used "gender" to mean "sex", and assuredly no one had come up with personalized or chosen pronouns.

Usage of "gender" as a term for sex dates back several centuries. It has real utility beyond simple linguistic delicacy because it doesn't refer to an act nor overlap with slang terminology.

However, you're correct, the form of the term invented by the pedophile and child abuser John Money would not have been used, and should never be used by people who aren't interested in sexually abusing children.

Ahh. Right, I was looking through the list, looking to see the status of a studio I am getting an admittedly free product from for curiosity sake, when I ran across TSR Hobbies. Considering their lack of product, is it appropriate for them to be on the list at all? So far the only content they've seemed to generate is legal documents for the various legal battles they're involved in.

Quote from: jaseoffire on October 21, 2022, 07:42:48 PM
Hmm, I've never heard of biotranshumanism being triggering before. That's a new one. Then again, body horror is called horror for a reason. Transhumanism is an interesting can of worms in its own right, though. Being Humanity's largest screw you to nature.

Eclipse Phase talks about that topic in depth and it makes sense in that context of being able to stick your head in a robotic squid space miner or a giant human baby doll.

  Setting is great but the company is completely in the Red Zone.

I would have put the studio that publishes EP in the red zone simply because of their take on religion in game.

All established religions but Islam fail to survive because of the authored reasons and feels.

Given that death and the concept of heaven and hell become meaningless when if one dies they simply get another new body.

Yet one of the more radical religions that hate change and would be horrified to find out that morphing into another body shows that religion is useless yet they somehow survive. When in reality most religions would crumble because again no heaven or hell just code being sent to one body to another.

Quote from: Abraxus on October 26, 2022, 01:36:10 PM
I would have put the studio that publishes EP in the red zone simply because of their take on religion in game.

All established religions but Islam fail to survive because of the authored reasons and feels.

Given that death and the concept of heaven and hell become meaningless when if one dies they simply get another new body.

Yet one of the more radical religions that hate change and would be horrified to find out that morphing into another body shows that religion is useless yet they somehow survive. When in reality most religions would crumble because again no heaven or hell just code being sent to one body to another.

Christianity still survives (especially in Jovian space).

That being said, though, the politics of the company shine through hilariously with how they paint everyone but the anarchists as various flavors of bad guy.

Quote from: jaseoffire on October 22, 2022, 11:03:03 PM
Ahh. Right, I was looking through the list, looking to see the status of a studio I am getting an admittedly free product from for curiosity sake, when I ran across TSR Hobbies. Considering their lack of product, is it appropriate for them to be on the list at all? So far the only content they've seemed to generate is legal documents for the various legal battles they're involved in.

Yeah I meant to remove them, I'll revisit them again when they publish something. They may even warrant a lower ranking because of questionable behavior. Took it off for now

Quote from: rytrasmi on October 18, 2022, 09:14:21 PM
Jhkim: The most relevant of the 3 in game is "sex." Do you have broad hips or broad shoulders? 1920's NPCs are going to make snap judgments based on a first glance. Yes, not all women have broad hips but most everyone in the 20s is going to instantly know whether you're a man or a woman. Pronouns mean nothing unless there's a conversation and, of course, standard pronouns would be the norm in the 20s.

There could be several reasons to use different pronouns in game. A woman disguised as a man for instance. But that doesn't mean it needs to on the character sheet, while omitting the much more commonly used trait of the character's obvious biological sex.

Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.

There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.

Quote from: pawsplay on October 28, 2022, 07:35:32 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on October 18, 2022, 09:14:21 PM
Jhkim: The most relevant of the 3 in game is "sex." Do you have broad hips or broad shoulders? 1920's NPCs are going to make snap judgments based on a first glance. Yes, not all women have broad hips but most everyone in the 20s is going to instantly know whether you're a man or a woman. Pronouns mean nothing unless there's a conversation and, of course, standard pronouns would be the norm in the 20s.

There could be several reasons to use different pronouns in game. A woman disguised as a man for instance. But that doesn't mean it needs to on the character sheet, while omitting the much more commonly used trait of the character's obvious biological sex.

Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

Code Select Expand

1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.

There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.

That's a much higher proportion than normally given. I don't doubt that someone is saying this, but I think they are messing a bit with definitions.

Quote from: pawsplay on October 28, 2022, 07:35:32 PM
Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

Code Select Expand

1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.

There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.

There are a lot of people here who are over two thousand years old too. 
Maybe this site is popular with elves.

Or perhaps, like myself, we didn't bother to fill out our sex or birth date.

Quote from: pawsplay on October 28, 2022, 07:35:32 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on October 18, 2022, 09:14:21 PM
Jhkim: The most relevant of the 3 in game is "sex." Do you have broad hips or broad shoulders? 1920's NPCs are going to make snap judgments based on a first glance. Yes, not all women have broad hips but most everyone in the 20s is going to instantly know whether you're a man or a woman. Pronouns mean nothing unless there's a conversation and, of course, standard pronouns would be the norm in the 20s.

There could be several reasons to use different pronouns in game. A woman disguised as a man for instance. But that doesn't mean it needs to on the character sheet, while omitting the much more commonly used trait of the character's obvious biological sex.

Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

Code Select Expand

1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.

There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.

This post is off topic. Make another off topic post here or on any other thread and you could be permanently banned. This is your only warning.