Quote from: Eric Diaz on February 07, 2022, 07:16:16 PM
Yup, you nailed it. The influence is obvious. Bands of outlaws, wild frontiers, wide open spaces, isolated cities, gold diggers (and gold is more important than birth)... have a lot more to do with western tropes than medieval tropes.

Yes, you just described Europe from about 400AD to 1000AD. As the classical world fell apart, provinces and cities were on their own. Places that were once tamed become wild again. Centers of importance also had it very rough, e.g. London was abandoned in 410AD and the same almost happened to Paris. The difference between an Angle, Saxon, Dane, Vandal, Alan, Goth, etc. king, warlord, bandit, outlaw, etc. and the next was probably one of degree rather than kind. They were beholden only to someone that was stronger than they were. Otherwise, they do what they want to do. They are the classic model of an adventurer. Plus, beginning adventurers start a huge amount of wealth compared to ordinary people. So, PCs are the sons and daughters of non-insignificant people.     

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Might be because of REH indeed... or just the tropes Gygax and Arneson were familiar with.

There are also obvious medieval/arthurian tropes - castles, jousting, mythical European monsters (there might be a sasquatch somewhere), so, a bit of both - but society resembles western more than medieval (no fiefs, vassals, aristocrats, etc., just bands and henchmen).

First, we need to clear about something. AD&D rarely made any effort to maintain a consistent setting. You are liable to see an adventurer equipped as an 8the century BC Greek hoplite standing right next to another adventurer wearing 15th century Italian plate harness. It's D&D. Gygax does address societies in the section of the DMG on world-building. He mentions that there is just too much for one table fits all. But he doesn't say, "It's the Wild West, yo!" He gives guidelines and suggestions and then comments that your world will vary. European folklore in this thread along with European/Mediterranean history is the bedrock of modern fantasy. Gygax even tells us about his dad telling him stories which were from and inspired by stories collected by Andrew Lang.

As for the Wild West, I would say it is the basis for one of peeves about almost every published D&D setting: They don't leave enough unclaimed land for PCs. It's almost the exact opposite of the Wild West where there was an entire continent for the taking. If you want to claim some land and build a castle in Greyhawk, you got to get permission. There should have been a better illustration of difference between theoretical borders and the zones of control around cities and castles with the land outside those areas being available for PCs. I don't think there has been any RPG that handles this well. Plus, feudal settings tends to flake apart once you start adding abundant magic.   

What is the biggest antagonist in the Wild West aside from outlaws? Indians. What is lacking from D&D? Anything representing Indians. Orcs were inspired from Huns. And monsters inspired from American myths are rare. Maybe count them on one hand? Pathfinder may have done most of the work.

The most uniquely western influence that you can point to is the inn and/or tavern in every town or village regardless on how small it is. And it's just their presence. The inns themselves are pretty much carbon copies from various medieval inns.

(Oh someone mentioned general stores. So that makes two.)

Quote from: AtomicPope on February 18, 2022, 08:58:56 PM
The D&D tavern is really an American invention, but it has its roots in English history (especially the very act of "adventuring" and hiring "adventurers").  American taverns were places to find mercenaries going back to colonial times until very recently.  The US Marine Corps was born in a tavern, and the first recruiter was a tavern owner.  That was a common occurrence in American history for centuries.  If a Sheriff needed deputies he would go to a tavern and deputize willing and able-bodied men.  There are still state laws on the books, in particular the American Southwest, that allows Sheriffs to temporarily deputize citizens and form a posse ( derived from posse comitatus). Need armed men to take on local bandits?  Form a posse.  This is a common theme in D&D games from the very beginning.  Even the 5e Starter Set has a bandit problem that needs to be resolved by adventurers.  All of this is closer to colonial America and the Wild West than the Middle Ages, and it's much better if we recognize that and build campaigns that capture those themes.

I agree, well said. There are several cool 'actual medieval-esque' games like Pendragon, C&S, and the Pundit's stuff, but D&D is not one even in the typical feel of how things work.
If you want a less Western and somewhat more Medieval or Arthurian feel, the PCs could be knights & retainers of a Lord, being sent out from court to go do stuff in the far flung parts of his realm. Remove all inns, you either stay at the manors of local knights & lords, or at abbeys, priories, monasteries and suchlike religious holdings. The inn taproom is replaced by the lord's hall or the refectory.

So a bit late, but you could run Keep on the Borderlands easily in an Western setting with some changes to the fantastical aspect.