Quote from: SeanchaiYes, just  s l o w l y.

Speaking of rpgs and things that take ages to happen, and about which fanboys tell lies, I was reading an rpg.net thread about roleplaying whole countries, and someone linked to a review of Aria from 1997.

Quote from: Seanchai, in an old reviewAria utilizes game concepts that will revolutionize the FRPG industry...

One of those concepts is that of the Interactive History. [...]

That finishes out the core of character creation in Aria. But by no means is the small sample here all there is to that process. It is detailed and time-consuming. The final product, however, is worth all the book-keeping, page-flipping, and decision making that each Persona requires. In the end, you will have a character that will truly step off the page when the role-playing begins...

[...] Aria does as Tolkien did.

I am honestly having to wipe a tear from a corner of my eye as I try to stop laughing. It's all so beautiful! Such wonderful fanboy gushing!

Revolutionise the whole fantasy roleplaying game industry? A detailed and time-consuming character creation, but it's all worth it? Equal to Tolkien?

I don't know if Seanchai's enthusiasm was genuine, or if he was "turning the volume up to 11", so to speak. But it's beautiful

Myself, I found Aria awe-inspiring, but unplayable. It may very well be the only roleplaying game that no-one has ever played. Fine ideas, dreadful execution.

Revolutionary! Well worth the effort of character generation!

Quote from: Kyle AaronI am honestly having to wipe a tear from a corner of my eye as I try to stop laughing. It's all so beautiful! Such wonderful fanboy gushing!

Instead of you trying to stop laughing, how about you stop distorting what I wrote? I am grateful you included a link so that folks can check out the review of themselves as your portrayal is not so accurate.

It's true that I do lay it on thick in parts, but it's a 4,200 word review. And I also say things such as "The writing of Aria bears note. Unfortunately, this is because it is the game's greatest flaw. While technically precise, the style used to convey the game's mechanics is impenetrable. Instead of using a common and familiar vernacular, the authors have decided to coin numerous terms and they thrust them upon the reader with great enthusiasm. One may no more skim Aria for comprehension than peer through masonry."

Quote from: Kyle AaronRevolutionise the whole fantasy roleplaying game industry?

Here's what I actually said: "However, Aria utilizes game concepts that will revolutionize the FRPG industry..."

I don't know if you've picked up little games like Reign and Exalted, but playing nations, etc., has been incorporated into the mainstream since Aria's publication.

Quote from: Kyle AaronA detailed and time-consuming character creation, but it's all worth it?

And?

Quote from: Kyle AaronEqual to Tolkien?

"Aria does as Tolkien did. The game's intent is to help us explore our collective mythologies and it succeeds. With it's Interactive Histories, living Personas, and detailed worlds, there is only one word that can describe a fully realized Aria campaign: epic."

Where you get "equal" from, I'm not sure.

When all is said and done, however, I still really like Aria. I wish it had gotten the new edition that cleaned it up and cleared up some of the jargon. Oh, well.

Seanchai

I gotta back Seanchai up a little here.  I still think Aria doesn't wholely suck.  I consider it a majestic failure.  It didn't reach out a grab a star like it wanted to, but at least it can say it got burned trying.

When did Aria come out? D&D had rules for playing nations decades ago.

Quote from: James McMurrayWhen did Aria come out? D&D had rules for playing nations decades ago.

Mid-1990's, I think.

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayWhen did Aria come out? D&D had rules for playing nations decades ago.

Say what?  D&D has always had at least a few rules for playing the leaders of a polity.  But for playing the polity itself?  That would be a new one on me.  Is there a version of D&D that let's me play not just the Mayor of Greyhawk, but the whole damn city?  That's one of the things I thought was new in Aria.

Never having read Aria it's quite possible I'm wrong. All I saw was that playing nations apparently revolutionized things, but D&D has been doing that since 1984's Companion set.

Quote from: GoOrangeAny unisystem game: The great thing is that it's compatible with all the other unisystem games.

Hey, I thought this one was true. In which way aren't they compatible?

Quote from: ClaudiusHey, I thought this one was true. In which way aren't they compatible?

Cinematic unisystem and classic unisystem are quite different and I understand that. What really gets me was the difference in classic unisystem games. There were different starting numbers for characters, different combat rules, and completely different magic systems. Magic or psionics in Con X works very different than it does in Witchcraft

Quote from: jrientsSay what?  D&D has always had at least a few rules for playing the leaders of a polity.  But for playing the polity itself?  That would be a new one on me.  Is there a version of D&D that let's me play not just the Mayor of Greyhawk, but the whole damn city?  That's one of the things I thought was new in Aria.

Birthright is what he's referring to I think. Never played it so I'm not sure, but it predates the mid-90s.

Universality is the most frequent lie.

GURPS can do anything!
D20 can do anything!
Wushu can do anything!
Heroquest can do anything!
Risus can do anything!

Eeee Teee Ceee (to quote D. Boon.)

The other lie that always annoyed me was about WFRP1e. It goes something like this: your character is a complete loser who will be destroyed by the forces of chaos in his second or third adventure. IME, I certainly had some campaigns that ended up that way, but I also played in two campaigns that ran for years in the early 90s. Fate points are super-powerful in the hands of old-school D&D players, in my opinion--- in other words, run the fuck away unless you're overwhelmed.

Quote from: OliveBirthright is what he's referring to I think. Never played it so I'm not sure, but it predates the mid-90s.

Birthright was published in 1995. Aria was published in 1994. Obviously, if there's something in the D&D Companions set about role-playing nations, that predates both of those.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiBirthright was published in 1995. Aria was published in 1994. Obviously, if there's something in the D&D Companions set about role-playing nations, that predates both of those.

Seanchai

The Mentzer Companion set, dated 1983, includes rules (as in actual rules rather than just vague guidelines) on many aspects of running a dominion - natural resources, income, expenses, the loyalty of subjects, etc.. So, as you see, the idea of running an entire kingdom within the mechanisms of a roleplaying game are not at all that newfangled, indeed.

Okay, there's a disconnect going on in this whole Aria business.  Now its been a while since I read the game and certainly I could be misunderstanding, but I could have sworn that your PC is the kingdom.  I.e. your character sheet is NOT for "Bob, Lord of Bobia" the ruler of a vast dominion.  Instead, in Aria as I recall it your PC was the realm of Bobia.

That's what I thought was different about Aria.

Quote from: jgantsSpeaking of which, here's another lie:

"City of Heroes is still a viable license for Eden"

They can take as long as they want on the liscense and never lose it.  Owner of Eden and the owner of the company that owns City of Heroes are good friends.  They've been friends for many years before either of them owned a company.