Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 05:42:39 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 04:11:46 PM

Quote from: Ocule on July 20, 2022, 12:48:32 PM
Sigil is great but i dont think it hits the vibe of the dark citadel bugle is going for. Hmm...lets see just spitballing ideas out here

Building on what geeky said

The dragonborn are the ruling class of the citadel, they live lavish lives and horde wealth and knowledge. The non dragon racesor those without dragon blood in their ancestry in the citadel are slaves, though some exceptions are made for free men and visitors. Slaves are nude, and sometimes tattood and branded or forced to wear a magical collar that makes them easy to track.

As the citadel travels the lands it oppresses all in it's shadows, squads of dragonborn warriors make it down to the surface in order to acquire wealth and slaves.

The citadel is made largely from Obsidian giving it an imposing silhouette.

Among themselves, they are actually very civilized. They simply view the other races as beneath them, internally they even have a hierarchy that the more pure your blood of the dragon is the more clout you hold in their society. The society is decadent to the point of decay.

The spectre of the citadel appearing is said to be a portent of war, it's shadow induces a violent insanity in all those caught in it. The citadel is powered by blood and souls.

There are doors to everywhere and everywhen in the citadel, and even parallel dimensions. The citadel itself exists touching multiple places and dimensions simultaneously.

The denizens of the citadel can universally be described as cruel, cold, and arrogant. They also possess immense knowledge unknown to the kingdoms below. Slaves fight for entertainment, torture is a legal punishment.

Yes ive been reading alot of Elric lately lol though i also do like the idea of an anti-utopia like somene mentioned earlier

I love it! Their oh so precious Dragonborn are basically Nazis!

How do people get there when not taken by the Dragonborn?

I would guess any portal would be heavily guarded, so only those they allow can enter? How would the heroes get there then? Without loosing their weapons/magic stuff? Airships?

Just one minor complaint, all Utopias are what you call anti-utopia.

Occasionally cracks in their protections happen and visitors slip in. That way there is a steady supply of food for the denizens.

Okay, but...

It's floating high in the sky, sooooo... How do the visitors got that high? Skyships?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 06:28:28 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 05:42:39 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 04:11:46 PM

Quote from: Ocule on July 20, 2022, 12:48:32 PM
Sigil is great but i dont think it hits the vibe of the dark citadel bugle is going for. Hmm...lets see just spitballing ideas out here

Building on what geeky said

The dragonborn are the ruling class of the citadel, they live lavish lives and horde wealth and knowledge. The non dragon racesor those without dragon blood in their ancestry in the citadel are slaves, though some exceptions are made for free men and visitors. Slaves are nude, and sometimes tattood and branded or forced to wear a magical collar that makes them easy to track.

As the citadel travels the lands it oppresses all in it's shadows, squads of dragonborn warriors make it down to the surface in order to acquire wealth and slaves.

The citadel is made largely from Obsidian giving it an imposing silhouette.

Among themselves, they are actually very civilized. They simply view the other races as beneath them, internally they even have a hierarchy that the more pure your blood of the dragon is the more clout you hold in their society. The society is decadent to the point of decay.

The spectre of the citadel appearing is said to be a portent of war, it's shadow induces a violent insanity in all those caught in it. The citadel is powered by blood and souls.

There are doors to everywhere and everywhen in the citadel, and even parallel dimensions. The citadel itself exists touching multiple places and dimensions simultaneously.

The denizens of the citadel can universally be described as cruel, cold, and arrogant. They also possess immense knowledge unknown to the kingdoms below. Slaves fight for entertainment, torture is a legal punishment.

Yes ive been reading alot of Elric lately lol though i also do like the idea of an anti-utopia like somene mentioned earlier

I love it! Their oh so precious Dragonborn are basically Nazis!

How do people get there when not taken by the Dragonborn?

I would guess any portal would be heavily guarded, so only those they allow can enter? How would the heroes get there then? Without loosing their weapons/magic stuff? Airships?

Just one minor complaint, all Utopias are what you call anti-utopia.

Occasionally cracks in their protections happen and visitors slip in. That way there is a steady supply of food for the denizens.

Okay, but...

It's floating high in the sky, sooooo... How do the visitors got that high? Skyships?

Any kind of transportation spell, but especially teleport derivatives. PCs could find a teleportation circle in a dungeon and just jump on it, then find themselves in a draconic kitchen.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 06:34:16 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 06:28:28 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 05:42:39 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 04:11:46 PM

Quote from: Ocule on July 20, 2022, 12:48:32 PM
Sigil is great but i dont think it hits the vibe of the dark citadel bugle is going for. Hmm...lets see just spitballing ideas out here

Building on what geeky said

The dragonborn are the ruling class of the citadel, they live lavish lives and horde wealth and knowledge. The non dragon racesor those without dragon blood in their ancestry in the citadel are slaves, though some exceptions are made for free men and visitors. Slaves are nude, and sometimes tattood and branded or forced to wear a magical collar that makes them easy to track.

As the citadel travels the lands it oppresses all in it's shadows, squads of dragonborn warriors make it down to the surface in order to acquire wealth and slaves.

The citadel is made largely from Obsidian giving it an imposing silhouette.

Among themselves, they are actually very civilized. They simply view the other races as beneath them, internally they even have a hierarchy that the more pure your blood of the dragon is the more clout you hold in their society. The society is decadent to the point of decay.

The spectre of the citadel appearing is said to be a portent of war, it's shadow induces a violent insanity in all those caught in it. The citadel is powered by blood and souls.

There are doors to everywhere and everywhen in the citadel, and even parallel dimensions. The citadel itself exists touching multiple places and dimensions simultaneously.

The denizens of the citadel can universally be described as cruel, cold, and arrogant. They also possess immense knowledge unknown to the kingdoms below. Slaves fight for entertainment, torture is a legal punishment.

Yes ive been reading alot of Elric lately lol though i also do like the idea of an anti-utopia like somene mentioned earlier

I love it! Their oh so precious Dragonborn are basically Nazis!

How do people get there when not taken by the Dragonborn?

I would guess any portal would be heavily guarded, so only those they allow can enter? How would the heroes get there then? Without loosing their weapons/magic stuff? Airships?

Just one minor complaint, all Utopias are what you call anti-utopia.

Occasionally cracks in their protections happen and visitors slip in. That way there is a steady supply of food for the denizens.

Okay, but...

It's floating high in the sky, sooooo... How do the visitors got that high? Skyships?

Any kind of transportation spell, but especially teleport derivatives. PCs could find a teleportation circle in a dungeon and just jump on it, then find themselves in a draconic kitchen.

Oh, I got it, so is it a malfunction of the teleportation circle or are those traps?

Of course, keep in mind that a suitable heroic party, unhindered by moral equivalence or any real desire to try and deal with this legally, might just decide, 'Let's see how big a crater this hellhole makes if we crash it.'

Granted, they'll probably need to be on top of their game, but don't cry if they decide to piledrive the floating city into a mountain in pursuit of truth, justice, and sweet loot

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 20, 2022, 07:04:08 PM
Of course, keep in mind that a suitable heroic party, unhindered by moral equivalence or any real desire to try and deal with this legally, might just decide, 'Let's see how big a crater this hellhole makes if we crash it.'

Granted, they'll probably need to be on top of their game, but don't cry if they decide to piledrive the floating city into a mountain in pursuit of truth, justice, and sweet loot

Especially if said mountain contains a dragon's lair. Two hoards with one massive stone.

Quote from: RandyB on July 20, 2022, 08:05:24 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 20, 2022, 07:04:08 PM
Of course, keep in mind that a suitable heroic party, unhindered by moral equivalence or any real desire to try and deal with this legally, might just decide, 'Let's see how big a crater this hellhole makes if we crash it.'

Granted, they'll probably need to be on top of their game, but don't cry if they decide to piledrive the floating city into a mountain in pursuit of truth, justice, and sweet loot

Especially if said mountain contains a dragon's lair. Two hoards with one massive stone.

I could see my current party doing exactly that, but we might need another player or two, we lack a cleric and we might need a thief halfling.

No.  Let's Corrupt their Radiant Citadel!!!  That would be Much More Fun.

Yes....  We Must Bathe It in Darkness!!!

Muhuwahaha!!!

Perhaps we should corrupt their precious?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 06:46:27 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 06:34:16 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 06:28:28 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 20, 2022, 05:42:39 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 04:11:46 PM

Quote from: Ocule on July 20, 2022, 12:48:32 PM
Sigil is great but i dont think it hits the vibe of the dark citadel bugle is going for. Hmm...lets see just spitballing ideas out here

Building on what geeky said

The dragonborn are the ruling class of the citadel, they live lavish lives and horde wealth and knowledge. The non dragon racesor those without dragon blood in their ancestry in the citadel are slaves, though some exceptions are made for free men and visitors. Slaves are nude, and sometimes tattood and branded or forced to wear a magical collar that makes them easy to track.

As the citadel travels the lands it oppresses all in it's shadows, squads of dragonborn warriors make it down to the surface in order to acquire wealth and slaves.

The citadel is made largely from Obsidian giving it an imposing silhouette.

Among themselves, they are actually very civilized. They simply view the other races as beneath them, internally they even have a hierarchy that the more pure your blood of the dragon is the more clout you hold in their society. The society is decadent to the point of decay.

The spectre of the citadel appearing is said to be a portent of war, it's shadow induces a violent insanity in all those caught in it. The citadel is powered by blood and souls.

There are doors to everywhere and everywhen in the citadel, and even parallel dimensions. The citadel itself exists touching multiple places and dimensions simultaneously.

The denizens of the citadel can universally be described as cruel, cold, and arrogant. They also possess immense knowledge unknown to the kingdoms below. Slaves fight for entertainment, torture is a legal punishment.

Yes ive been reading alot of Elric lately lol though i also do like the idea of an anti-utopia like somene mentioned earlier

I love it! Their oh so precious Dragonborn are basically Nazis!

How do people get there when not taken by the Dragonborn?

I would guess any portal would be heavily guarded, so only those they allow can enter? How would the heroes get there then? Without loosing their weapons/magic stuff? Airships?

Just one minor complaint, all Utopias are what you call anti-utopia.

Occasionally cracks in their protections happen and visitors slip in. That way there is a steady supply of food for the denizens.

Okay, but...

It's floating high in the sky, sooooo... How do the visitors got that high? Skyships?

Any kind of transportation spell, but especially teleport derivatives. PCs could find a teleportation circle in a dungeon and just jump on it, then find themselves in a draconic kitchen.

Oh, I got it, so is it a malfunction of the teleportation circle or are those traps?

Both.

The misguided transportation effect is an aspect of the mirror universe Radiant Citadel. It takes PCs and NPCs into it naturally when they use a power or spell or whatever strong enough to cause a transportation effect and they are within a set distance from it based on the amount of energy used in the power or spell or whatever.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 10:59:41 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 20, 2022, 07:15:48 AM
My Pitch? I'd just take the Radiant Citadel as written and just give everything totalitarian undertones. Think Ba Sing Se from Avatar the Last Airbender.

It is not enough to tolerate, you must celebrate and embrace their values about everything. Describe the subtle fear behind everyone's eyes whenever anyone says anything that even remotely contradicts the official dogma. Those who draw too much attention disappear and, if they return, now fully embrace the official dogma and eerily repeat certain phrases as if by rote.

Can your PC's overcome this bastion of evil masking itself in virtue and free those enslaved within?

But that would require buying it, I'm not giving WotC any money.

But I do like the totalitarian aspect.

I thought of using some of the very special snowflake races but make them ALWAYS EVIL NPCs.

Nah, you don't have to buy it. The general description they've already released is more than enough to work out a sinister version of.

One thought I had was some sort of "enforced diversity" where they have quotas for the number of each species (with disproportionately high snowflake races). Maybe they ask for volunteers first, but ultimately it's a Hunger Games lottery. While I suppose you could use a ploymorph spell on the more common races to achieve this... to keep with the idea that those in charge are true monsters underneath I'd have them use the reincarnation spell... murdering the individual again and again until they come back in the "correct" race and sex... complete with all the trauma of multiple deaths and returns into bodies not their own.

Maybe even make it a central aspect of the radiant citadel's magic... that death within it always results in reincarnation, but also traps the subject within the citadel (requiring some sort of quest to into the depths of the citadel to break the hold it has).

Basically, there's an initial draw... here you can live forever... but with a terrible price made even worse by those who claimed authority misusing the power to pursue their own agenda.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 21, 2022, 07:08:09 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 20, 2022, 10:59:41 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 20, 2022, 07:15:48 AM
My Pitch? I'd just take the Radiant Citadel as written and just give everything totalitarian undertones. Think Ba Sing Se from Avatar the Last Airbender.

It is not enough to tolerate, you must celebrate and embrace their values about everything. Describe the subtle fear behind everyone's eyes whenever anyone says anything that even remotely contradicts the official dogma. Those who draw too much attention disappear and, if they return, now fully embrace the official dogma and eerily repeat certain phrases as if by rote.

Can your PC's overcome this bastion of evil masking itself in virtue and free those enslaved within?

But that would require buying it, I'm not giving WotC any money.

But I do like the totalitarian aspect.

I thought of using some of the very special snowflake races but make them ALWAYS EVIL NPCs.

Nah, you don't have to buy it. The general description they've already released is more than enough to work out a sinister version of.

One thought I had was some sort of "enforced diversity" where they have quotas for the number of each species (with disproportionately high snowflake races). Maybe they ask for volunteers first, but ultimately it's a Hunger Games lottery. While I suppose you could use a ploymorph spell on the more common races to achieve this... to keep with the idea that those in charge are true monsters underneath I'd have them use the reincarnation spell... murdering the individual again and again until they come back in the "correct" race and sex... complete with all the trauma of multiple deaths and returns into bodies not their own.

Maybe even make it a central aspect of the radiant citadel's magic... that death within it always results in reincarnation, but also traps the subject within the citadel (requiring some sort of quest to into the depths of the citadel to break the hold it has).

Basically, there's an initial draw... here you can live forever... but with a terrible price made even worse by those who claimed authority misusing the power to pursue their own agenda.

That is nightmarish and brilliant. Bravo, sir.

It'll change into something different when my party gets through it, I guess. I thought of letting them kidnap some of the special creatures - or wanted people - that are roaming the citadel and sell them into slavery or as bounties. The rest will be put to the blade and the buildings to the torch. The Radiant Citadel will then be renamed as the Fortress of Arrogance.

IDK, this sounds more like a dungeon/hostile-type location or an edgy anti-Radiant Citadel, rather than a proper non-soy city characters would wanna visit for anything beyond plunder. And it doesn't feel very "Planescapey". If going the anti-Radiant route I think the dystopian version some have proposed works best.

For me the non-soy city of the planes will always be Sigil.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 21, 2022, 11:52:24 AM
IDK, this sounds more like a dungeon/hostile-type location or an edgy anti-Radiant Citadel, rather than a proper non-soy city characters would wanna visit for anything beyond plunder. And it doesn't feel very "Planescapey". If going the anti-Radiant route I think the dystopian version some have proposed works best.

For me the non-soy city of the planes will always be Sigil.

If you introduce it and give the option to explore, trade and talk to its denizens then its not just a dungeon. Though personally id be more inclined to plunder the radiant citadel as written, because that place is cringe

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 21, 2022, 07:08:09 AM
... you could use a ploymorph spell...

I know this is a typo, but ploymorph sounds exactly like something the woke do. When one argument or 'ploy' doesn't work, they simply change things up and pretend their original argument wasn't actually what they were arguing, then acuse the other person of gaslighting them.

All kidding aside, your idea is brilliant!

Quote from: Ocule on July 22, 2022, 08:02:20 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 21, 2022, 11:52:24 AM
IDK, this sounds more like a dungeon/hostile-type location or an edgy anti-Radiant Citadel, rather than a proper non-soy city characters would wanna visit for anything beyond plunder. And it doesn't feel very "Planescapey". If going the anti-Radiant route I think the dystopian version some have proposed works best.

For me the non-soy city of the planes will always be Sigil.

If you introduce it and give the option to explore, trade and talk to its denizens then its not just a dungeon. Though personally id be more inclined to plunder the radiant citadel as written, because that place is cringe

Fair point.