Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:24:04 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:12:02 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 04, 2023, 07:54:34 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM

Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.

I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.

honeydipperdave -- that isn't what your quoted source says. The source claims "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First of all, that isn't specific to teachers. Most sexual abuse in schools is from other students. Of the fraction that is by teachers... note that there are around 50 thousand Catholic priests in the U.S., and nearly 4 million teachers. So there are roughly one hundred teachers to every priest. The source isn't saying that an individual teacher is far more likely than a priest to sexually abuse.

Sexual abuse in school - by students and by teachers - is a huge problem. But misrepresenting claims doesn't help that.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM

Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven.  You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled.  If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around.  Again, "turn the other cheek".  Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.

Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.

I sort of agree in that religion will continue to be a part of culture shift. Still, I don't think it's new or that it's purely external influence. For me, Christianity is the source of what you're calling corruption. I grew up Presbyterian, and back around 1980, I first learned about homosexuality from when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism -- and the congregation pledged their support (as we always do with baptism). My current church is Unitarian Universalist, and they've always been progressive.

>Those figures suggest that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests," contended Ms. Shakeshaft, who is a professor of educational administration at Hofstra, in Hempstead, N.Y.

So if you want to look at later studies, it went from 10% ot 9.6% of the students but its not apples to apples.

>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.

The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest.  That was the first claim if you want to limit it to the teachers, are teachers 67X's more likely to abuse kids than priests is that better?  It's not a priest problem, its a teacher problem.  Who has more control, the priests or the teachers union?  The teachers union can have a member decide to trans your kid, not tell you, and put your kid on puberty blockers then call you in for a meeting tell you the name the school decided for your kid and let you know they've been on puberty blockers and that the parent is the bitch and you better get with the program or they'll call CPS and take your kid away from you.  That shit happened in New England.  The school nurse lost her job for going public.  Teachers at this point are the boogey men, not the priests, its the difference is the Priest telling you speak very well for being a black man to the Teacher slashing your throat with a knife from a threat perpensity.

You can go down to it for access.  A predator is going to go where it has access to its prey.  The church at best, is 2 hours without a parent, maybe a Sunday school and then maybe some kind of youth program for an hour.  At school, the predators get 40 hours access to kids without parental authority.  It goes higher if the kid is into sports or after school activities.  If you were going to be a groomer where would you groom?  Where do we see the groomers today coming from?  Go to Libs of Tiktok if you want to see anequedotal abuse - its the teachers, almost always the teachers.

Y'all forget you're no longer talking about the convo on dndbeyond, but talking pure politics on the wrong forum.
And besides all of you are wrong.  ;-)

Quote from: DocJones on March 04, 2023, 09:08:12 PM
Y'all forget you're no longer talking about the convo on dndbeyond, but talking pure politics on the wrong forum.
And besides all of you are wrong.  ;-)

This is specifically related to rpgs, albeit political in nature, which is fine per Pundit. And no, not wrong. You're just a milquetoast faggot.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:24:04 PM
>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.

The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest.  That was the first claim if you want to limit it to the teachers, are teachers 67X's more likely to abuse kids than priests is that better?  It's not a priest problem, its a teacher problem.

It is *both* a priest problem and a teacher problem. Here's the John Jay report for comparison,

QuoteThe John Jay report indicated that some 11,000 allegations had been made against 4,392 priests in the USA. This number constituted approximately 4% of the 110,000 priests who had served during the period covered by the survey (1950–2002).

cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States#National_studies

While 4% is less than 9.6%, it's clearly a huge problem with both. And I'm not convinced that these are apples to apples comparisons either way.

Trying to bring this back to RPGs -- I don't see the need to say that the Satanic Panic was not a problem. One can complain about both. Personally, I haven't heard of any parents banning their kids from playing D&D or OSR because of the reports of racism or other prejudice - but that's purely anecdotal.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:34:22 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:43:36 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.

I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the execess of religious followers bad behavior.

QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it?  Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock.  I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation.  And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us.  Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.

No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.

QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor.  You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists).  I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.

Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.

I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.

Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.

I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.

QuoteNext, take a look at Christian nations for the last century in the West, Gee Oh My, oh no the terror of living there: capitalism, freedom of speech, freedom of association, private ownership.  If you want to blame Christianity for anything its being too lax and allowing the perverts to come to power because "turn the other cheek".

Yep. If there's anything to take from this part of the discussion, it's that the religious and conservatives were ineffective at any kind of effort to understand and address the issues.

QuoteI get it, you are too ignorant to have any perspective on the problem.  You believe that through atheism everything will be saved, its your religion.  A portion of the population can live without religion (there's been genetic studies on religious prevalence) the vast majority 80%+ of the population want religion, whether it be organized religion, communism or now the new religion wokeism.  If you had to choose amongst which to live, and let me remind you, you ALWAYS will have to pick between the three, I'll take Organized religion any day of the week.

I see you don't get it at all. I never said that through atheism everything will be saved. I don't even believe that. So this is a dead-end argument.

QuoteChristianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven.  You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled.  If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around.  Again, "turn the other cheek".  Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag. 

Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.

You aren't able to think enough to get the point in the first place.  The point being you are always going to be living under a religion, whether its organized or state religion, your choice.  You listed you don't like Christianity and you have preference for atheism.

Where did I "list" that? You keep saying things that are not true. I happen to like Christianity. It's some of the Christians I have an issue with.

I suggest you take a step back and get your shit together.

Quote from: Brad on March 04, 2023, 08:17:29 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
Aw. Going for the personal attack now? 

You going to answer or continue to be a fucking idiot?

Answer what? Where on the Jesus plushie my feels got crushed? It was on my wee-wee, of course. Your question was stupid and deserved a dismissive response.

Quote"They're just as bad!" Nope. If you think so you're a moron, 100%.

They're the same kind of bad. I can't help if you want to believe differently.