Just a popcorn thread.  I don't believe either of the trolls believe any of the crap they are writing.  It's a thread about darksuns and then it derives down into two people arguing over the harm D&D causes to people.  Both are trying to get the other person to talk like a normal non-leftarded individual to get the mods to do a ban on their account.  Very entertaining, its like watching to dickless deer fighting with their antlers over the right to not to mate with a doe.

My favorite thing to think of, those two are the audience D&D writers for now.  They are the best anti-consumer for a leftard company to get.  Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.  I'm not cheering on a Depression but it will fix D&D.


https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?page=10

I gotta say I do agree with this statement, "I said the product itself is "tryhard" and "90s X-treme", because that was quite commonplace in the 90s RPG market. Dark Sun is kinda the "Rob Liefeld" of DnD."

Yup, that's what both Darksun and Planescape feel like to me. You can almost hear The Smiths playing in the background as the 20-something writers poured their angst and edginess onto the page when writing those settings and the fandom surrounding them.

I don't hate either. I own both and I've run some Planescape. But damn, it is exactly "90s X-treme" and that "Rob Liefeld" comment hits home. Interesting settings, but flawed as well.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 01, 2023, 12:43:40 AM
I gotta say I do agree with this statement, "I said the product itself is "tryhard" and "90s X-treme", because that was quite commonplace in the 90s RPG market. Dark Sun is kinda the "Rob Liefeld" of DnD."

Yes, I didn't read much beyond that, but that was a good line. 

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.

Not going to happen I reckon, short of Hasbro going bankrupt. Hasbro hate hate hate selling off IP, and would rather warehouse it for decades. If/when ONE D&D fails, I think that's quite likely to happen. We got a taster of it with the failure of 4e D&D, from 2011 until the release of 5e in 2014. But there they could see the big problem was the rules. The 5e rules were fine, so they had to come up with some quite creative ways to destroy the brand.

If you read the thread, AttackMatrix isn't "a leftard" - they're somebody saying:

Quote
I don't think a company that shows disdain for a game's legacy, that disrespects artists and writers still considered some of the greatest in the hobby by implying they are of questionable character for not thinking and feeling like some people today think and feel, deserves to be the custodian of that game. Honestly? I think the sooner Hasbro realize they're not making the sort of money they'd rather be making from it and choose to sell it, the better.

and

Quote
I'd love to see them allow Goodman Games to resurrect the setting for 5th ed. with involvement from the original team of writers and artists. But I think it affords WotC a lot of leverage with the public to just be able to say the setting is too problematic. Not that this prevents them from continuing to profit from it.

What I think they're trying to do is bait the other poster: "if you really believe harm is being caused, how can you not completely scorn WotC?"

They're using some pretty dumb sealioning tactics, which the other poster is calling them on. But the other poster's "I think they're going in the right direction now!" response reads as pretty weak, calling into doubt just what the "harm" is.

Quote from: S'mon on March 01, 2023, 03:32:29 AM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.

Not going to happen I reckon, short of Hasbro going bankrupt. Hasbro hate hate hate selling off IP, and would rather warehouse it for decades.

I'd certainly feel stupid if I was the suit who made the decision to sell off an IP, and then have the new owners turn it into a mega-hit.

...

Which is not an impossibility, if Hasbro handed the game over to a leaner and more creative bunch than the WOTC crew.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?page=10

WOOF! The DEI person made my stomach churn. Every trope used to make claims and then not back them up. "It's not my job..."
I can smell the dingy cubicles from 1984 through the monitor.

I was thinking this and then read on to see this dude SAY IT:

" That statement is nothing more than a religious article of faith.  I have YET to see anyone demonstrate how this "harm" is done, other than hurt feelings because it doesn't appeal to someone's tastes or morals.

This is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.

No one has EVER been able to demonstrate how D&D lead to murder and suicide during the Satanic Panic, and no one since then has been able to demonstrate how its content has lead to loss of life, limb, or property, despite what today's current crop of Neo-Puritans is saying.  The best answer we've gotten so far is some version "you're just not enlightened enough to see it the way I do".

In addition to mere words about magic elves causing "harm" here is another gem from that thread:

" And you simply CANNOT make the case that D&D has led people to have some kind of racist epiphany, get out of their chairs at the gaming table, then proceed to bully and oppress marginalized communities.  As PART of the marginalized communities in question here, tabletop gamers are the LAST people in the world I'm worried about.

The more leftard racists that D&D caters to, the worse their content become, the less profitable D&D becomes and the better likelihood of D&D IP being sold off.

Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.

See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.

Very well said, Brad.  I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home.  My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.

This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement.  When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off.  They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 01, 2023, 08:59:30 AM
The more leftard racists that D&D caters to, the worse their content become, the less profitable D&D becomes and the better likelihood of D&D IP being sold off.

Except it's making more money?

There is this basic assumption that D&D is like Marvel and DC comics (not movies) in that the more they appeal to the left the lower their sales will go.

That assumption is false. D&D didn't start where Marvel and DC started before they began their leftward march. Marvel and DC were already in extremely high mass appeal and mass market before that, for decades and decades. Their "fall" is relative to where they had been.

D&D was not starting there.

D&D right now is hitting that extremely high mass appeal and mass market. THAT factor is far more important for sales than any other factor.

Millions who were not really aware of D&D are now becoming aware of it. That is driving sales upward. It's a force far more powerful than any counter-force from partisanship.

I think some older gamers are in denial about just how many new players joined the hobby in the past 5 years. It was a genuine exponential growth moment. It truly made the number of people who started in the 1980s pale in comparison. It's something which didn't happen to comics in this generation - this is what happened to comics in the 1980s. not now.

I think....not sure, but I think I actually lost cognitive capabilities reading even a little of that thread.

Thanks for nothing, LOL.

Quote from: Brooding Paladin on March 01, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
Very well said, Brad.  I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home.  My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.

This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement.  When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off.  They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.

I played in secret for some years as a result of this.  My parents realized I was not cruel to people or animals and was still willingly going to religious services. 

I am most annoyed by the hangers on—-not people genuinely upset—-but the signalers that have allowed this to dominate online discussions.  "Better not say anything....it's not a big deal."  Right up until you cannot get products you want...