Just a popcorn thread. I don't believe either of the trolls believe any of the crap they are writing. It's a thread about darksuns and then it derives down into two people arguing over the harm D&D causes to people. Both are trying to get the other person to talk like a normal non-leftarded individual to get the mods to do a ban on their account. Very entertaining, its like watching to dickless deer fighting with their antlers over the right to not to mate with a doe.
My favorite thing to think of, those two are the audience D&D writers for now. They are the best anti-consumer for a leftard company to get. Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's. I'm not cheering on a Depression but it will fix D&D.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?page=10
I gotta say I do agree with this statement, "I said the product itself is "tryhard" and "90s X-treme", because that was quite commonplace in the 90s RPG market. Dark Sun is kinda the "Rob Liefeld" of DnD."
Yup, that's what both Darksun and Planescape feel like to me. You can almost hear The Smiths playing in the background as the 20-something writers poured their angst and edginess onto the page when writing those settings and the fandom surrounding them.
I don't hate either. I own both and I've run some Planescape. But damn, it is exactly "90s X-treme" and that "Rob Liefeld" comment hits home. Interesting settings, but flawed as well.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 01, 2023, 12:43:40 AM
I gotta say I do agree with this statement, "I said the product itself is "tryhard" and "90s X-treme", because that was quite commonplace in the 90s RPG market. Dark Sun is kinda the "Rob Liefeld" of DnD."
Yes, I didn't read much beyond that, but that was a good line. ;D
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.
Not going to happen I reckon, short of Hasbro going bankrupt. Hasbro hate hate hate selling off IP, and would rather warehouse it for decades. If/when ONE D&D fails, I think that's quite likely to happen. We got a taster of it with the failure of 4e D&D, from 2011 until the release of 5e in 2014. But there they could see the big problem was the rules. The 5e rules were fine, so they had to come up with some quite creative ways to destroy the brand.
If you read the thread, AttackMatrix isn't "a leftard" - they're somebody saying:
Quote
I don't think a company that shows disdain for a game's legacy, that disrespects artists and writers still considered some of the greatest in the hobby by implying they are of questionable character for not thinking and feeling like some people today think and feel, deserves to be the custodian of that game. Honestly? I think the sooner Hasbro realize they're not making the sort of money they'd rather be making from it and choose to sell it, the better.
and
Quote
I'd love to see them allow Goodman Games to resurrect the setting for 5th ed. with involvement from the original team of writers and artists. But I think it affords WotC a lot of leverage with the public to just be able to say the setting is too problematic. Not that this prevents them from continuing to profit from it.
What I think they're trying to do is
bait the other poster: "if you really believe
harm is being caused, how can you not completely scorn WotC?"
They're using some pretty dumb sealioning tactics, which the other poster is calling them on. But the other poster's "I think they're going in the right direction now!" response reads as pretty weak, calling into doubt just what the "harm" is.
Quote from: S'mon on March 01, 2023, 03:32:29 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.
Not going to happen I reckon, short of Hasbro going bankrupt. Hasbro hate hate hate selling off IP, and would rather warehouse it for decades.
I'd certainly feel stupid if I was the suit who made the decision to sell off an IP, and then have the new owners turn it into a mega-hit.
...
Which is not an impossibility, if Hasbro handed the game over to a leaner and more creative bunch than the WOTC crew.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?page=10
WOOF! The DEI person made my stomach churn. Every trope used to make claims and then not back them up. "It's not my job..."
I can smell the dingy cubicles from 1984 through the monitor.
I was thinking this and then read on to see this dude SAY IT:
" That statement is nothing more than a religious article of faith. I have YET to see anyone demonstrate how this "harm" is done, other than hurt feelings because it doesn't appeal to someone's tastes or morals.
This is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
No one has EVER been able to demonstrate how D&D lead to murder and suicide during the Satanic Panic, and no one since then has been able to demonstrate how its content has lead to loss of life, limb, or property, despite what today's current crop of Neo-Puritans is saying. The best answer we've gotten so far is some version "you're just not enlightened enough to see it the way I do".
In addition to mere words about magic elves causing "harm" here is another gem from that thread:
" And you simply CANNOT make the case that D&D has led people to have some kind of racist epiphany, get out of their chairs at the gaming table, then proceed to bully and oppress marginalized communities. As PART of the marginalized communities in question here, tabletop gamers are the LAST people in the world I'm worried about.
The more leftard racists that D&D caters to, the worse their content become, the less profitable D&D becomes and the better likelihood of D&D IP being sold off.
Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.
Very well said, Brad. I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home. My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.
This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement. When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off. They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 01, 2023, 08:59:30 AM
The more leftard racists that D&D caters to, the worse their content become, the less profitable D&D becomes and the better likelihood of D&D IP being sold off.
Except it's making more money?
There is this basic assumption that D&D is like Marvel and DC comics (not movies) in that the more they appeal to the left the lower their sales will go.
That assumption is false. D&D didn't start where Marvel and DC started before they began their leftward march. Marvel and DC were already in extremely high mass appeal and mass market before that, for decades and decades. Their "fall" is relative to where they had been.
D&D was not starting there.
D&D right now is hitting that extremely high mass appeal and mass market. THAT factor is far more important for sales than any other factor.
Millions who were not really aware of D&D are now becoming aware of it. That is driving sales upward. It's a force far more powerful than any counter-force from partisanship.
I think some older gamers are in denial about just how many new players joined the hobby in the past 5 years. It was a genuine exponential growth moment. It truly made the number of people who started in the 1980s pale in comparison. It's something which didn't happen to comics in this generation - this is what happened to comics in the 1980s. not now.
I think....not sure, but I think I actually lost cognitive capabilities reading even a little of that thread.
Thanks for nothing, LOL.
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on March 01, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
Very well said, Brad. I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home. My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.
This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement. When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off. They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.
I played in secret for some years as a result of this. My parents realized I was not cruel to people or animals and was still willingly going to religious services.
I am most annoyed by the hangers on—-not people genuinely upset—-but the signalers that have allowed this to dominate online discussions. "Better not say anything....it's not a big deal." Right up until you cannot get products you want...
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on March 01, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
Very well said, Brad. I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home. My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.
This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement. When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off. They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.
Pretty much where I was at, too. My mom was ADAMANT about me not playing D&D anymore. So I moved on to Rolemaster and Palladium FRP, which are arguably waaaaay worse. Hey, it wasn't D&D! When i got to high school I pretty much just started AD&D and she left me alone, but yeah, there was a lot of "suggesting" I stop, although by that time I was more into Starfleet Battles so that took up 90% of my gaming. I can vividly remember her watching Pat Robertson discuss the githyanki image from Fiend Folio...that was a weird time.
Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AM
I was thinking this and then read on to see this dude SAY IT:
" That statement is nothing more than a religious article of faith. I have YET to see anyone demonstrate how this "harm" is done, other than hurt feelings because it doesn't appeal to someone's tastes or morals.
This is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
No one has EVER been able to demonstrate how D&D lead to murder and suicide during the Satanic Panic, and no one since then has been able to demonstrate how its content has lead to loss of life, limb, or property, despite what today's current crop of Neo-Puritans is saying. The best answer we've gotten so far is some version "you're just not enlightened enough to see it the way I do".
Ha, I liked this as well. I will always be astounded and fascinated by the way human beings think/act/say.
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 10:48:54 AM
Pretty much where I was at, too. My mom was ADAMANT about me not playing D&D anymore. So I moved on to Rolemaster and Palladium FRP, which are arguably waaaaay worse. Hey, it wasn't D&D! When i got to high school I pretty much just started AD&D and she left me alone, but yeah, there was a lot of "suggesting" I stop, although by that time I was more into Starfleet Battles so that took up 90% of my gaming. I can vividly remember her watching Pat Robertson discuss the githyanki image from Fiend Folio...that was a weird time.
As a Christian, I really hate the Pat Robertson types (well hate most popular preachers really). They're just grifting off of moral outrage, and both sides do it equally. The Pat Robertson's and Jesse Jackson's are the same creature.
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on March 01, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
Very well said, Brad. I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home. My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.
This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement. When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off. They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.
Pretty much where I was at, too. My mom was ADAMANT about me not playing D&D anymore. So I moved on to Rolemaster and Palladium FRP, which are arguably waaaaay worse. Hey, it wasn't D&D! When i got to high school I pretty much just started AD&D and she left me alone, but yeah, there was a lot of "suggesting" I stop, although by that time I was more into Starfleet Battles so that took up 90% of my gaming. I can vividly remember her watching Pat Robertson discuss the githyanki image from Fiend Folio...that was a weird time.
I know this happened and I heard stories about it but I never lived it directly. My parents bought me D&D and encouraged me to play because it went hand in hand with my reading a ton and having a good social life. Then again I came from a Jewish household and "reading" was way more important than "might get into devil-worshipping." They would have just laughed about devil-worshipping as they didn't believe in devils and nobody did much worshipping in our household.
I did have a close friend in my gaming group whose parents were like your parents and he secretly played D&D with us. He'd sometimes leave his books with us so his parents wouldn't find them and other times hide them in his garage.
I am reading the thread from the beginning (maybe I am crazy) But the guy in this post makes a damn good point:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?comment=116
Basically WOTC/Hasbro find the Dark Sun setting problematic, yet on Drivethrurpg they are selling the box set for Dark Sun. How problematic could it be if they are happy to take money for the older version?
Quote from: GhostNinja on March 01, 2023, 01:55:57 PM
I am reading the thread from the beginning (maybe I am crazy) But the guy in this post makes a damn good point:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/165343-no-plans-for-5e-dark-sun?comment=116
Basically WOTC/Hasbro find the Dark Sun setting problematic, yet on Drivethrurpg they are selling the box set for Dark Sun. How problematic could it be if they are happy to take money for the older version?
Problematic problematic that's how problematic.
Really though, should we be surprised by this behavior from a company that hates its customer base?
Quote from: rytrasmi on March 01, 2023, 02:03:57 PM
Problematic problematic that's how problematic.
Really though, should we be surprised by this behavior from a company that hates its customer base?
Nope just more hypocrisy from the woke and WOTC.
Quote from: GhostNinja on March 01, 2023, 02:11:01 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on March 01, 2023, 02:03:57 PM
Problematic problematic that's how problematic.
Really though, should we be surprised by this behavior from a company that hates its customer base?
Nope just more hypocrisy from the woke and WOTC.
They think you should buy the book, then burn it. No reason why their finances should suffer. :o
Quote from: S'mon on March 01, 2023, 03:32:29 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2023, 11:17:53 PM
Every day is a day closer for D&D to be sold off to a company that likes their customers and RPG's.
Not going to happen I reckon, short of Hasbro going bankrupt. Hasbro hate hate hate selling off IP, and would rather warehouse it for decades. If/when ONE D&D fails, I think that's quite likely to happen. We got a taster of it with the failure of 4e D&D, from 2011 until the release of 5e in 2014. But there they could see the big problem was the rules. The 5e rules were fine, so they had to come up with some quite creative ways to destroy the brand.
I'm wary of talking about corporate "success" and "failure" when I don't have access to actual revenue figures.
From a corporate perspective, the problem with a good ruleset that everyone loves is that it is a one-time purchase. That means that further profit is cut off. So there's a trade-off, where an incomplete or flawed ruleset may generate more corporate revenue than a complete and solid ruleset. But they can't make it too bad, or players won't buy it.
Like most corporations, they are there to generate profit for their shareholders, not fun for customers. That doesn't mean that they can't put out good products that are fun for customers, but it's a side-effect rather than the goal. I've enjoyed a number of Hasbro/WotC products over the years. However, I've always been at a minimum wary, and particularly after their OGL fiasco, I'm not buying from them now.
Greetings!
"Dark Sun is problematic!"; "Racist, hate-filled tropes in D&D cause POC's and Trans people harm, bigot!"--I'm paraphrasing generally. All of these people that believe this nonsense are just a bunch of mentally weak, emotionally fragile pussies. They are uneducated, near illiterate morons. I don't care where thy went to school. They have never actually learned to read, to understand, or to think critically, or rationally. Then, add in a dump-truck of Marxist, Libtard brainwashing, and these people are what you get. All of these kinds of activist, Communist morons are deeply mentally ill. They are morally corrupt, and should all be placed in high-security institutions, and properly medicated.
Or, righteously bathed in napalm. ;D
As for the "Satanic Panic" years, heh. *Shrug* I had a few Christian friends that had to endure their own paranoid parents, as well as their paranoid churches. I'm Christian, as were all of my friends. Just some were from different flavours of Christianity. Catholic, Baptist, what have you. Both of my parents drilled me to embrace the Christian Faith, and also to embrace intellectualism, reading, thinking, and excellence in everything. Theological excellence, intellectual, personal. Be smart. Be faithful. Be honourable and righteous. Both of my parents were Old School. They had me late in life, so yeah. OLD SCHOOL. My mother grew up on a farm in Texas in the 1930's, and was Baptist. My father was Catholic. Latin-speaking, and went to all-boys Catholic schools. Then, he fought in World War II.
My mother and father were some of the very first gamers that played D&D with me. My parents also bought me the dice, the miniatures, the paints, and the rule books. So, yeah. My father used to also take me to hobby shops regularly to buy plastic models, and then would watch me or help me build them. My parents took me to the Library regularly, and checked out books for me by the armload that I had selected, to feed my constant hunger for more and more knowledge. My mother would regularly read the Scriptures to me, and teach me the Bible. My parents took me to Mass every Sunday, and I would attend Bible Study on Wednesday evenings, and often attended a Baptist Christian Youth Group on Friday evenings. I completed my Confirmation studies as an adolescent, taught to us by Mrs. Cleary, and of course, Confirmed by my church's Father O'Malley, and the Bishop.
I also had regular chores to do every day and week, and also got a job as a teenager. My mother taught me how to play Chess, and my father played Squad Leader and Panzer Blitz with me, among other World War II wargames. Was my father a "Nazi" when he played the German Wehrmacht forces? ;D Of course not. I also went shooting and hunting and fishing with my parents. Using guns and real ammunition. As a kid and teenager. I went from BB guns to a .410 shotgun, then to larger shotguns. Similarly, from a .22 rifle to .308.
Honestly, in recent times, I feel like most of these people today, gamers, and so on, come from a different planet than I do. Or I was somehow raised on a sifferent planet. These morons have corrupted everything in our society to become Clown world now. It's sad, and bewildering for certain. That's why it is so important to keep the faith. Hold fast to what is true, righteous, and good.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brooding Paladin on March 01, 2023, 09:52:42 AM
I lived through the "Panic" and come from a Christian/religious home. My parents were genuinely concerned because they bought the popular rhetoric they were hearing but also saw that their nerdy sons were still the same nerdy sons despite continued exposure to this supposedly dangerous element.
This is part of how I learned that communication and education/exchange of ideas were fundamentally needed in any disagreement. When my parents fully realized it was all a game of pretend and that we weren't suddenly radicalized into devil-worshiping haters of all stripes, they eased off. They never entirely trusted the game and even (eventually) recommended we stop playing but by that point my brother and I were comfortable enough to just take it underground so everyone could live their lives peacefully.
Emphasis mine above. I completely agree, and this is one of the things that I find very helpful to hear about other people's experiences to compare.
Quote from: SHARK on March 01, 2023, 03:02:47 PM
I had a few Christian friends that had to endure their own paranoid parents, as well as their paranoid churches. I'm Christian, as were all of my friends. Just some were from different flavours of Christianity. Catholic, Baptist, what have you. Both of my parents drilled me to embrace the Christian Faith, and also to embrace intellectualism, reading, thinking, and excellence in everything. Theological excellence, intellectual, personal. Be smart. Be faithful. Be honourable and righteous. Both of my parents were Old School. They had me late in life, so yeah. OLD SCHOOL. My mother grew up on a farm in Texas in the 1930's, and was Baptist. My father was Catholic. Latin-speaking, and went to all-boys Catholic schools. Then, he fought in World War II.
My mother and father were some of the very first gamers that played D&D with me.
I had some similarities and some differences. I'm 53 now and grew up in the 1970s and 1980s. My parents were Presbyterian, though they weren't raised that way. My father was born in Japanese-occupied Korea, and was raised by his educated farming family in Mugyohoe (Korean non-church Christianity). My mother grew up near Boston as working-class Nazarene, and was the first in her family to go to college. We were fairly devout and I went through Presbyterian Sunday school and youth groups. However, we also were liberal and had no paranoia about Satanist stuff. For example, when I was a teenager, I went with a church group to go see The Last Temptation of Christ and then discuss it critically afterwards. Also, unlike SHARK, my friends weren't all Christian. I had many friends who were Jewish and agnostic/atheist. So I learned about communicating with people of other faiths.
So my parents weren't against D&D for Satanic or occult content. However, they were against D&D because it was a
game, and they saw hobby games as frivolous. They supported music, art, or sports as hobbies - but they looked down a lot on games. It's still a sore point with them. At best, they see games as time-wasters.
I played RPGs with my son, though, and raised him with a love of learning, literature, and creativity.
Quote from: SHARK on March 01, 2023, 03:02:47 PM
Honestly, in recent times, I feel like most of these people today, gamers, and so on, come from a different planet than I do. Or I was somehow raised on a sifferent planet. These morons have corrupted everything in our society to become Clown world now. It's sad, and bewildering for certain. That's why it is so important to keep the faith. Hold fast to what is true, righteous, and good.
I suspect I am part of the Clown world corruption that you're talking about -- but for me, I am holding fast to my roots and childhood faith.
I learned my feminism from my pastor growing up, Laurie Ferguson. I also learned about the struggle for LGBT rights in church. The first time I learned about gay people was around 1980 when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism at my church. And my church also spoke up for racial justice at the time. Especially as a mixed-race kid, I got to see just how common racial discrimination was as I grew up.
Kind off off-topic, but for anyone who's interested in "problematic" gaming with Dark Sun, without supporting WoTC, some ambitious individual on Reddit spent 8 years(!) assembling a 5-volume PDF compendium of the Dark Sun setting that's completely system-agnostic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/11fwm95/dark_sun_grand_compendium_finished/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/11fwm95/dark_sun_grand_compendium_finished/)
Chaosium...announces a 10 volume set of Glorantha cult books (TEN) hoping for the first book to be available in August. Response is a resounding thud.
This guy on Reddit..."hey here's 1,300 pages of Dark Sun, system agnostic, available now, at no cost."
Not all heroes wear Cthulhu.
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.
This is no different. Everyone sees themselves as the good guys fighting the good fight. Plenty of grifters and ideologues use mainstream religion to garner money and power. And they need a villian to rally the troops. Those troops are the people with "genuine concern".
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 10:48:54 AM
I can vividly remember her watching Pat Robertson discuss the githyanki image from Fiend Folio...that was a weird time.
Example #1.
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.
The woke nonsense isn't exactly the same as the Satanic Panic, because no two things are ever exactly the same, but nearly every single beat of the current woke climate mirrors evangelical Christianity of the late 20th century, and the early 2000s. This is a bitter pill for Christians to swallow, and it's also one of the most important things that Christians don't understand. The view you have of the left right now is how moderate normies have viewed "the right" for the past several decades. Those moderate normies are excusing the radical Marxist revolutionaries the same way you're excusing the radical fundamentalist Christians.
Quote from: Corolinth on March 02, 2023, 11:58:58 PM
Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.
See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.
The woke nonsense isn't exactly the same as the Satanic Panic, because no two things are ever exactly the same, but nearly every single beat of the current woke climate mirrors evangelical Christianity of the late 20th century, and the early 2000s. This is a bitter pill for Christians to swallow, and it's also one of the most important things that Christians don't understand. The view you have of the left right now is how moderate normies have viewed "the right" for the past several decades. Those moderate normies are excusing the radical Marxist revolutionaries the same way you're excusing the radical fundamentalist Christians.
Yup. The horseshoe is real, even if one side of it is wwaaayyy more powerful and in control
at the moment.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 02, 2023, 05:03:51 PM
This is no different. Everyone sees themselves as the good guys fighting the good fight. Plenty of grifters and ideologues use mainstream religion to garner money and power. And they need a villian to rally the troops. Those troops are the people with "genuine concern".
It absolutely is different: Marxists are objectively evil.
Quote from: Brad on March 03, 2023, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 02, 2023, 05:03:51 PM
This is no different. Everyone sees themselves as the good guys fighting the good fight. Plenty of grifters and ideologues use mainstream religion to garner money and power. And they need a villian to rally the troops. Those troops are the people with "genuine concern".
It absolutely is different: Marxists are objectively evil.
And so are the religious nuts.
I would argue that the so-called religious right never, ever enjoyed the sheer amount of soft and hard power that the current idpol/socjus left does.
The difference is that when a fundamentalist minister says that there is nothing wrong with D&D, it might get a one-sentence quote in a local newspaper, at the end of the article, and then never be discussed again. At the time. All the local newspapers that would have given you even that much then are now either defunct or bought and operated as leftist propaganda mills. Whereas when a leftist says that maybe orcs aren't racist, they are kicked out of the SJW church. It's the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect in coordinated action with all the SJW-controlled institutions.
In other words, being a "religious nut" is Marxist orthodoxy whereas being a "religious nut" is against the orthodoxy of Christians. You'd have to actually study both orthodoxies and meet a valid cross-sample of each--not the ones the press select for you--to know that, though. Or you could just understand the nature of the press and calibrate accordingly.
Or in other, other words, the Christian "religious nut" is answerable on his own terms, whereas the Marxist "religious nut" is not. Or back to Brad's succinct summary.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 03, 2023, 08:13:53 AM
In other words, being a "religious nut" is Marxist orthodoxy whereas being a "religious nut" is against the orthodoxy of Christians.
One way I'd put it is that Christianity according to the New Testament is not a totalitarian belief system, it has always distinguished between the secular and sacred realms. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". Attempts to make it a totalising ideology have tended to be shortlived, and/or a minority taste. Our current Neo-Marxism is very much a totalitarian ideology, even moreso than classical Marxism of the Stalinist or Maoist varieties I think - though it's closest to Maoism.
The other difference about the Satanic Panic Christians and todays Woke Marxists is that the Christians were reacting in fear whereas the Marxists are co-opting for power. There is an overlap in some of it for sure (ie censorship), but their aims were completely different.
The Christians didn't infiltrate the ranks and scrutinize everything demanding changes being made in accordance with their ideology. Also, almost every upset/concerned/worried Christian from that time eventually came to see through what was mostly false and overblown concerns. Things mellowed out for the most part because people learned the truth. There are always nuts in religions, but wokeism turns everyone into a nut. There are numerous tales of how kids convinced their Christian parents that it's just a game. What happens when you try to convince a wokey that orcs or space monkeys aren't black people?
That really is a big difference.
Quote from: halfling rogue on March 03, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
The other difference about the Satanic Panic Christians and todays Woke Marxists is that the Christians were reacting in fear whereas the Marxists are co-opting for power.
You do hear a lot of "JK Rowling is LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE" type stuff from Wokesters, though. I do think fear is a motivator. The Christians feared for our Immortal Souls. The Wokesters fear for Black Bodies, or Trans Bodies. It's much easier to justify your own aggression when you can say Words Are Violence and Literally Killing People.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 03, 2023, 07:58:43 AM
I would argue that the so-called religious right never, ever enjoyed the sheer amount of soft and hard power that the current idpol/socjus left does.
I would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PM
I would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
I'm sure it varies by region. In Tennessee or Belfast (Northern Ireland) I think the Religious Right was a big deal. Not so much in New York, Seattle or London. The areas least vulnerable to the Religious Right are mostly those most vulnerable to the Woke Left.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
And so are the religious nuts.
Sure, okay.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
Okay, so? They're stupid. They also thought they were granting eternal salvation to people. While retarded, it's at least commendable from a pragmatic viewpoint. The only thing Marxists offer is to bask in the glory of the State before your body is ground up into soylent green. I am sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters, I loathe the woke retards who think they're winning brownie points on the internet by sending wrongthinking citizens to the gulags.
Greetings!
I think that people that want to equate the "Satanic Panic" and the "Moral Majority" of the 1980's with the current Marxist fucking tyranny are unfortunately allowing their own deep-seated anti-Christian animus to blind them to the reality that the two are NOT THE SAME. They have only a very few overlapping characteristics, and are obviously, blatantly, entirely, totally different. Fuck the "Satanic Panic" and a few over-lathered Christians. Marxist tyrants are literally overthrowing our entire fucking society. Not just getting stroked about our little hobby world. Geesus. Hobby Word=/= the whole fucking society being plunged into insane, Marxist tyranny. Some of these people engaging in such hyperbolic, false equivalency really do not seem to understand the TOTAL DIFFERENCE in scope and scale, as well as methods, motives, and actual actions.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on March 03, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Greetings!
I think that people that want to equate the "Satanic Panic" and the "Moral Majority" of the 1980's with the current Marxist fucking tyranny are unfortunately allowing their own deep-seated anti-Christian animus to blind them to the reality that the two are NOT THE SAME. They have only a very few overlapping characteristics, and are obviously, blatantly, entirely, totally different. Fuck the "Satanic Panic" and a few over-lathered Christians. Marxist tyrants are literally overthrowing our entire fucking society. Not just getting stroked about our little hobby world. Geesus. Hobby Word=/= the whole fucking society being plunged into insane, Marxist tyranny. Some of these people engaging in such hyperbolic, false equivalency really do not seem to understand the TOTAL DIFFERENCE in scope and scale, as well as methods, motives, and actual actions.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Yeah, pretty much. I wrote out some stuff but it sounded preachy and this is an RPG board.
Let's all remember the Satanic Panic was before the internet. A lot of well meaning folks saw Jim & Tammy hold up the Dungeon Masters Guide with the devil-like Efretti and had no real way to research that outside of going to the game shop themselves.
I don't think TSR pushed back because it increased sales even if it made some gamers miserable. Gary was a pretty religious guy, he could have gone onto the 700 Club or whatever show and discussed the game. He could have held up that DMs Guide and pointed out the adventurers are fighting against that devil-like Efretti. Then ask them why they are opposed to people fighting Satan? Mic drop.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 03, 2023, 07:19:50 PM
Let's all remember the Satanic Panic was before the internet. A lot of well meaning folks saw Jim & Tammy hold up the Dungeon Masters Guide with the devil-like Efretti and had no real way to research that outside of going to the game shop themselves.
I don't think TSR pushed back because it increased sales even if it made some gamers miserable. Gary was a pretty religious guy, he could have gone onto the 700 Club or whatever show and discussed the game. He could have held up that DMs Guide and pointed out the adventurers are fighting against that devil-like Efretti. Then ask them why they are opposed to people fighting Satan? Mic drop.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Very true, Ruprecht!
Interestingly, yeah, Gary was quite religious. He was proud of being a Christian. Naturally, he was flawed as we all are--but he was steadfast in his Christian faith.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brad on March 03, 2023, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
And so are the religious nuts.
Sure, okay.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
Okay, so? They're stupid. They also thought they were granting eternal salvation to people. While retarded, it's at least commendable from a pragmatic viewpoint. The only thing Marxists offer is to bask in the glory of the State before your body is ground up into soylent green. I am sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters, I loathe the woke retards who think they're winning brownie points on the internet by sending wrongthinking citizens to the gulags.
Eternal salvation while picking their pockets and using the dough to bang hookers and snort coke.
I am not sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters. They're the "useful idiots" for the right, and they can fuck right off a cliff.
Quote from: Ruprecht on March 03, 2023, 07:19:50 PM
Let's all remember the Satanic Panic was before the internet. A lot of well meaning folks saw Jim & Tammy hold up the Dungeon Masters Guide with the devil-like Efretti and had no real way to research that outside of going to the game shop themselves.
I don't think TSR pushed back because it increased sales even if it made some gamers miserable. Gary was a pretty religious guy, he could have gone onto the 700 Club or whatever show and discussed the game. He could have held up that DMs Guide and pointed out the adventurers are fighting against that devil-like Efretti. Then ask them why they are opposed to people fighting Satan? Mic drop.
To which the religious nuttery would have said "You are teaching them to cast spells, my god spells I say!". A lot of people back then had problems differentiating between reality and fantasy. It's continued on today as well. Going to my pet store to see a furry cunt in ears and tail working the register is an example of said problems with reality happening today just on 11.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 11:29:28 PM
Eternal salvation while picking their pockets and using the dough to bang hookers and snort coke.
I am not sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters. They're the "useful idiots" for the right, and they can fuck right off a cliff.
Please show me on the Jesus plushie where your feels got crushed, sir.
deleted dup post
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: Brad on March 03, 2023, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
And so are the religious nuts.
Sure, okay.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
Okay, so? They're stupid. They also thought they were granting eternal salvation to people. While retarded, it's at least commendable from a pragmatic viewpoint. The only thing Marxists offer is to bask in the glory of the State before your body is ground up into soylent green. I am sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters, I loathe the woke retards who think they're winning brownie points on the internet by sending wrongthinking citizens to the gulags.
Eternal salvation while picking their pockets and using the dough to bang hookers and snort coke.
I am not sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters. They're the "useful idiots" for the right, and they can fuck right off a cliff.
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place. When it comes to allowing new ideas to come in, Christianity was one of the faiths that allowed it and gave you a fair amount of rights compared to other faiths. Even today, the sense of basic morality is derived from Christianity. We now have our first generation raised without Christianity and they believe all women (guilty until proven innocent), they believe a man can give birth (completely out of touch with reality) and that communists killing a 110M is a lie, and their youth pastor I mean their 5th grade history teacher Mr Groomer taught them the holy communion between his dick in their asshole turned them into trans women because Mr Groomer is the gender priests. Mr Groomer also taught them original sin (being born a white male) and absolution by becoming an ally (racist piece of shit that discriminates against people and themselves based on race and whomever is higher than they are on the progressive stack altar of their fucked up God), and the States Gender Priests (groomer teachers) can pick your child's gender and sterilize them and put a wound that will never heal on your now castrated sons because they are in a fucking woke death cult.
You are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
There is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: Brad on March 03, 2023, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
And so are the religious nuts.
Sure, okay.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.
Okay, so? They're stupid. They also thought they were granting eternal salvation to people. While retarded, it's at least commendable from a pragmatic viewpoint. The only thing Marxists offer is to bask in the glory of the State before your body is ground up into soylent green. I am sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters, I loathe the woke retards who think they're winning brownie points on the internet by sending wrongthinking citizens to the gulags.
Eternal salvation while picking their pockets and using the dough to bang hookers and snort coke.
I am not sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters. They're the "useful idiots" for the right, and they can fuck right off a cliff.
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place. When it comes to allowing new ideas to come in, Christianity was one of the faiths that allowed it and gave you a fair amount of rights compared to other faiths. Even today, the sense of basic morality is derived from Christianity. We now have our first generation raised without Christianity and they believe all women (guilty until proven innocent), they believe a man can give birth (completely out of touch with reality) and that communists killing a 110M is a lie, and their youth pastor I mean their 5th grade history teacher Mr Groomer taught them the holy communion between his dick in their asshole turned them into trans women because Mr Groomer is the gender priests. Mr Groomer also taught them original sin (being born a white male) and absolution by becoming an ally (racist piece of shit that discriminates against people and themselves based on race and whomever is higher than they are on the progressive stack altar of their fucked up God), and the States Gender Priests (groomer teachers) can pick your child's gender and sterilize them and put a wound that will never heal on your now castrated sons because they are in a fucking woke death cult.
You are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
There is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Greetings!
That was *righteous*, Honeydipperdavid. *Standing Ovation*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brad on March 04, 2023, 03:22:55 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 11:29:28 PM
Eternal salvation while picking their pockets and using the dough to bang hookers and snort coke.
I am not sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters. They're the "useful idiots" for the right, and they can fuck right off a cliff.
Please show me on the Jesus plushie where your feels got crushed, sir.
Aw. Going for the personal attack now? ;)
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.
I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the execess of religious followers bad behavior.
QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.
QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.
I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:43:36 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.
I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the excess of religious followers bad behavior. If you want to have a problem with pedophilia, then you look at professions that gives the pedophile long access to a child without access, like a groomer... I mean a teacher. daycare or a scoutmaster (that got them bankrupt). A pastor has less than 2 hours a week access to a kid a groomer... er I mean teacher has 40 hours a week with kids.
QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.
QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.
I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
Next, take a look at Christian nations for the last century in the West, Gee Oh My, oh no the terror of living there: capitalism, freedom of speech, freedom of association, private ownership. If you want to blame Christianity for anything its being too lax and allowing the perverts to come to power because "turn the other cheek". I get it, you are too ignorant to have any perspective on the problem. You believe that through atheism everything will be saved, its your religion. A portion of the population can live without religion (there's been genetic studies on religious prevalence) the vast majority 80%+ of the population want religion, whether it be organized religion, communism or now the new religion wokeism. If you had to choose amongst which to live, and let me remind you, you ALWAYS will have to pick between the three, I'll take Organized religion any day of the week.
Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag and go to their young trans Sunday school. The Christian faith is the most lax faith known to man, ask Europe how they let the whole land go willingly into the woke faith and they get on their hands and knees and ask their woke masters how they can serve them better. If anything, I'd rather be living in the 1950's America with religion and at fault marriage than the bloody fucking hellscape we are marching towards today. I'm firmly in the "woke faith" is going to start a bloody holy war in the US and a lot of us are going to have to fight the nutters just to keep our homes, jobs and families intact. And if those woke fucks were raised with religion they'd be working and trying to get a family rather than reading Marx and trying to find ways to take other peoples money and lives away from them.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:43:36 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.
I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the execess of religious followers bad behavior.
QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.
QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.
I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
QuoteNext, take a look at Christian nations for the last century in the West, Gee Oh My, oh no the terror of living there: capitalism, freedom of speech, freedom of association, private ownership. If you want to blame Christianity for anything its being too lax and allowing the perverts to come to power because "turn the other cheek".
Yep. If there's anything to take from this part of the discussion, it's that the religious and conservatives were ineffective at any kind of effort to understand and address the issues.
QuoteI get it, you are too ignorant to have any perspective on the problem. You believe that through atheism everything will be saved, its your religion. A portion of the population can live without religion (there's been genetic studies on religious prevalence) the vast majority 80%+ of the population want religion, whether it be organized religion, communism or now the new religion wokeism. If you had to choose amongst which to live, and let me remind you, you ALWAYS will have to pick between the three, I'll take Organized religion any day of the week.
I see you don't get it at all. I never said that through atheism everything will be saved. I don't even believe that. So this is a dead-end argument.
QuoteChristianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:43:36 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.
I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the execess of religious followers bad behavior.
QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.
QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.
I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
QuoteNext, take a look at Christian nations for the last century in the West, Gee Oh My, oh no the terror of living there: capitalism, freedom of speech, freedom of association, private ownership. If you want to blame Christianity for anything its being too lax and allowing the perverts to come to power because "turn the other cheek".
Yep. If there's anything to take from this part of the discussion, it's that the religious and conservatives were ineffective at any kind of effort to understand and address the issues.
QuoteI get it, you are too ignorant to have any perspective on the problem. You believe that through atheism everything will be saved, its your religion. A portion of the population can live without religion (there's been genetic studies on religious prevalence) the vast majority 80%+ of the population want religion, whether it be organized religion, communism or now the new religion wokeism. If you had to choose amongst which to live, and let me remind you, you ALWAYS will have to pick between the three, I'll take Organized religion any day of the week.
I see you don't get it at all. I never said that through atheism everything will be saved. I don't even believe that. So this is a dead-end argument.
QuoteChristianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
You aren't able to think enough to get the point in the first place. The point being you are always going to be living under a religion, whether its organized or state religion, your choice. You listed you don't like Christianity and you have preference for atheism. Good luck, you will be a minority and people of your mindset tend to support state religion, ie communism. The wok faith is marxism reworked to be based on race to take the down the US. The failure isn't religion and its not conservatives, the failure is the wealthy who decided to use globalism to increase profits at the expesne of the Middle Class. We are at the end of an 80 year cycle, where the wealthy gets consumed by the workers, it happens all the time whether in blood or economic transfer. You can read Ray Dalio on it. The wealthy elite are putting in race based communism to replace the current system to maintain their wealth.
You are always going to have to live under a system that is religion based, Europeans pretend they don't but they also import people with no education, no intention to ever learn the culture and integrate and the immigrants have an outright hatred of the locals, why do they do it? State faith tells them to do things that go against their economic and personal safety and they do it to follow the faith. Christianity doesn't. "Turn the other cheek" is one hell of a problem, however Christianity was also used to protect the people from the atrocities of "the other", whether it be religion or state belief. There was one hell of a religious revival in the 80's due to the fucked up 60s and 70s. There are already religious revivals hitting colleges, people are getting fed the fuck up with woke fucks. We have States passing laws stopping woke fucks from functioning in the US, essentially creating two separate US. And the wealthy are fleeing with their capital to red states to create jobs because woke states their workers get murdered, their shops get broken into and the blue states tax them into oblivion. This isn't just religion, its also economic, however religion helps to set the social values. Social values set property rights and civil liberties. You are better of with Christianity compared to all other religions from civil liberties and there is no comparison to the state worshippers (communists).
If you were lucky enough to be born in a nation founded on Christian beliefs you should be on your hands and knees kissing the ground, because a lot of people got born under the 2nd largest religion in the world or they got stuck under communist, and its a lot worse for them from basic civil liberties.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
honeydipperdave -- that isn't what your quoted source says. The source claims "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First of all, that isn't specific to teachers. Most sexual abuse in schools is from other students. Of the fraction that is by teachers... note that there are around 50 thousand Catholic priests in the U.S., and nearly 4 million teachers. So there are roughly one hundred teachers to every priest. The source isn't saying that an individual teacher is far more likely than a priest to sexually abuse.
Sexual abuse in school - by students and by teachers - is a huge problem. But misrepresenting claims doesn't help that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
I sort of agree in that religion will continue to be a part of culture shift. Still, I don't think it's new or that it's purely external influence. For me, Christianity is the source of what you're calling corruption. I grew up Presbyterian, and back around 1980, I first learned about homosexuality from when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism -- and the congregation pledged their support (as we always do with baptism). My current church is Unitarian Universalist, and they've always been progressive.
Quote from: jhkim on March 04, 2023, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
honeydipperdave -- that isn't what your quoted source says. The source claims "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First of all, that isn't specific to teachers. Most sexual abuse in schools is from other students. Of the fraction that is by teachers... note that there are around 50 thousand Catholic priests in the U.S., and nearly 4 million teachers. So there are roughly one hundred teachers to every priest. The source isn't saying that an individual teacher is far more likely than a priest to sexually abuse.
Sexual abuse in school - by students and by teachers - is a huge problem. But misrepresenting claims doesn't help that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
I sort of agree in that religion will continue to be a part of culture shift. Still, I don't think it's new or that it's purely external influence. For me, Christianity is the source of what you're calling corruption. I grew up Presbyterian, and back around 1980, I first learned about homosexuality from when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism -- and the congregation pledged their support (as we always do with baptism). My current church is Unitarian Universalist, and they've always been progressive.
>Those figures suggest that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests," contended Ms. Shakeshaft, who is a professor of educational administration at Hofstra, in Hempstead, N.Y.
So if you want to look at later studies, it went from 10% ot 9.6% of the students but its not apples to apples.
>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.
The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest. You can go down to it for access. A predator is going to go where it has access to its prey. The church at best, is 2 hours without a parent, maybe a Sunday school and then maybe some kind of youth program for an hour. At school, the predators get 40 hours access to kids without parental authority. If you were going to be a groomer where would you groom? Where do we see the groomers today coming from? Go to Libs of Tiktok if you want to see anequedotal abuse - its the teachers, almost always the teachers.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
Aw. Going for the personal attack now? ;)
You going to answer or continue to be a fucking idiot?
"They're just as bad!" Nope. If you think so you're a moron, 100%.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 04, 2023, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
honeydipperdave -- that isn't what your quoted source says. The source claims "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First of all, that isn't specific to teachers. Most sexual abuse in schools is from other students. Of the fraction that is by teachers... note that there are around 50 thousand Catholic priests in the U.S., and nearly 4 million teachers. So there are roughly one hundred teachers to every priest. The source isn't saying that an individual teacher is far more likely than a priest to sexually abuse.
Sexual abuse in school - by students and by teachers - is a huge problem. But misrepresenting claims doesn't help that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
I sort of agree in that religion will continue to be a part of culture shift. Still, I don't think it's new or that it's purely external influence. For me, Christianity is the source of what you're calling corruption. I grew up Presbyterian, and back around 1980, I first learned about homosexuality from when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism -- and the congregation pledged their support (as we always do with baptism). My current church is Unitarian Universalist, and they've always been progressive.
>Those figures suggest that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests," contended Ms. Shakeshaft, who is a professor of educational administration at Hofstra, in Hempstead, N.Y.
So if you want to look at later studies, it went from 10% ot 9.6% of the students but its not apples to apples.
>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.
The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest. That was the first claim if you want to limit it to the teachers, are teachers 67X's more likely to abuse kids than priests is that better? It's not a priest problem, its a teacher problem. Who has more control, the priests or the teachers union? The teachers union can have a member decide to trans your kid, not tell you, and put your kid on puberty blockers then call you in for a meeting tell you the name the school decided for your kid and let you know they've been on puberty blockers and that the parent is the bitch and you better get with the program or they'll call CPS and take your kid away from you. That shit happened in New England. The school nurse lost her job for going public. Teachers at this point are the boogey men, not the priests, its the difference is the Priest telling you speak very well for being a black man to the Teacher slashing your throat with a knife from a threat perpensity.
You can go down to it for access. A predator is going to go where it has access to its prey. The church at best, is 2 hours without a parent, maybe a Sunday school and then maybe some kind of youth program for an hour. At school, the predators get 40 hours access to kids without parental authority. If you were going to be a groomer where would you groom? Where do we see the groomers today coming from? Go to Libs of Tiktok if you want to see anequedotal abuse - its the teachers, almost always the teachers.
[/quote]
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:24:04 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: jhkim on March 04, 2023, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
honeydipperdave -- that isn't what your quoted source says. The source claims "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First of all, that isn't specific to teachers. Most sexual abuse in schools is from other students. Of the fraction that is by teachers... note that there are around 50 thousand Catholic priests in the U.S., and nearly 4 million teachers. So there are roughly one hundred teachers to every priest. The source isn't saying that an individual teacher is far more likely than a priest to sexually abuse.
Sexual abuse in school - by students and by teachers - is a huge problem. But misrepresenting claims doesn't help that.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Christianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
I sort of agree in that religion will continue to be a part of culture shift. Still, I don't think it's new or that it's purely external influence. For me, Christianity is the source of what you're calling corruption. I grew up Presbyterian, and back around 1980, I first learned about homosexuality from when a gay couple brought their adopted baby in for baptism -- and the congregation pledged their support (as we always do with baptism). My current church is Unitarian Universalist, and they've always been progressive.
>Those figures suggest that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests," contended Ms. Shakeshaft, who is a professor of educational administration at Hofstra, in Hempstead, N.Y.
So if you want to look at later studies, it went from 10% ot 9.6% of the students but its not apples to apples.
>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.
The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest. That was the first claim if you want to limit it to the teachers, are teachers 67X's more likely to abuse kids than priests is that better? It's not a priest problem, its a teacher problem. Who has more control, the priests or the teachers union? The teachers union can have a member decide to trans your kid, not tell you, and put your kid on puberty blockers then call you in for a meeting tell you the name the school decided for your kid and let you know they've been on puberty blockers and that the parent is the bitch and you better get with the program or they'll call CPS and take your kid away from you. That shit happened in New England. The school nurse lost her job for going public. Teachers at this point are the boogey men, not the priests, its the difference is the Priest telling you speak very well for being a black man to the Teacher slashing your throat with a knife from a threat perpensity.
You can go down to it for access. A predator is going to go where it has access to its prey. The church at best, is 2 hours without a parent, maybe a Sunday school and then maybe some kind of youth program for an hour. At school, the predators get 40 hours access to kids without parental authority. It goes higher if the kid is into sports or after school activities. If you were going to be a groomer where would you groom? Where do we see the groomers today coming from? Go to Libs of Tiktok if you want to see anequedotal abuse - its the teachers, almost always the teachers.
Y'all forget you're no longer talking about the convo on dndbeyond, but talking pure politics on the wrong forum.
And besides all of you are wrong. ;-)
Quote from: DocJones on March 04, 2023, 09:08:12 PM
Y'all forget you're no longer talking about the convo on dndbeyond, but talking pure politics on the wrong forum.
And besides all of you are wrong. ;-)
This is specifically related to rpgs, albeit political in nature, which is fine per Pundit. And no, not wrong. You're just a milquetoast faggot.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 08:24:04 PM
>The reanalysis found that 9.6 percent of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. That included misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7 percent of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7 percent reporting harassment involving physical contact.
The facts at hand is that teachers are the ones with an abuse problem, and are 100X's more likely to abuse a kid than a priest. That was the first claim if you want to limit it to the teachers, are teachers 67X's more likely to abuse kids than priests is that better? It's not a priest problem, its a teacher problem.
It is *both* a priest problem and a teacher problem. Here's the John Jay report for comparison,
QuoteThe John Jay report indicated that some 11,000 allegations had been made against 4,392 priests in the USA. This number constituted approximately 4% of the 110,000 priests who had served during the period covered by the survey (1950–2002).
cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States#National_studies
While 4% is less than 9.6%, it's clearly a huge problem with both. And I'm not convinced that these are apples to apples comparisons either way.
Trying to bring this back to RPGs -- I don't see the need to say that the Satanic Panic was not a problem. One can complain about both. Personally, I haven't heard of any parents banning their kids from playing D&D or OSR because of the reports of racism or other prejudice - but that's purely anecdotal.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:34:22 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:43:36 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on March 04, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Keep in mind the Christian faith allowed the enlightment to take place.
I do keep that in mind. But it's not an excuse for the execess of religious followers bad behavior.
QuoteYou are living in a post Christianity nation and its nice isn't it? Oh no, its not and you are praying for a religious revival to stop this shit before we devolve into some form of a civil war or worse they win and put you in their gulags because you won't suck the female cock. I'm not kidding here, that is where we are going in the nation. And I'm atheist, but I can appreciate the benefits and protection that Christianity gave all of us. Having a generation of Hitler youth being raised without faith means they will believe whatever they are told by the State happily as being morally right.
No. I am hoping that people come to their senses and reject woke ideology, like they rejected the Moral Majority and the Satanic Panic nonsense.
Whether those people find it through religion or reason or (most likely) a combination of the two.
Just remember the mind worm that turns people into authoritarian assholes knows no bounds. It can come from the left or the right, conservatives or liberals, religious or non-religious.
QuoteThere is a genetic predisposition to have faith, and those hippie fuck boomers believe they were above religion and raised this gender nazi generation are still religious they just worship an abhorrent non-theistist woke religion like the Nazi's worshipped Hitler and the Imp Japs worshipped the emperor. You will never live in a time without religion, its either the traditional religions, cults or state worship (communists). I'll live in a Christian controlled country any year, month, week or day happily.
Would you happily live in an authoritarian Christian nation that sodomized children and abused people's rights in the name of faith?
Religion is not a shield that prevents bad behavior. People twist good things. Bad people will always be with us, and they will be among the religious as well as the non-religious.
I've developed a bit of sympathy for the religious and conservatives after the left have gone batshit crazy. But I'm not going to let that blind me to their faults.
Just so you know teachers are 100X's more likely to bugger your child than a priest.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/sexual-abuse-by-educators-is-scrutinized/2004/03#:~:text=Those%20figures%20suggest%20that%20%E2%80%9Cthe,at%20Hofstra%2C%20in%20Hempstead%2C%20N.Y.
I'm well aware of the rates. That's no excuse.
QuoteNext, take a look at Christian nations for the last century in the West, Gee Oh My, oh no the terror of living there: capitalism, freedom of speech, freedom of association, private ownership. If you want to blame Christianity for anything its being too lax and allowing the perverts to come to power because "turn the other cheek".
Yep. If there's anything to take from this part of the discussion, it's that the religious and conservatives were ineffective at any kind of effort to understand and address the issues.
QuoteI get it, you are too ignorant to have any perspective on the problem. You believe that through atheism everything will be saved, its your religion. A portion of the population can live without religion (there's been genetic studies on religious prevalence) the vast majority 80%+ of the population want religion, whether it be organized religion, communism or now the new religion wokeism. If you had to choose amongst which to live, and let me remind you, you ALWAYS will have to pick between the three, I'll take Organized religion any day of the week.
I see you don't get it at all. I never said that through atheism everything will be saved. I don't even believe that. So this is a dead-end argument.
QuoteChristianity gives you quite a bit of leeway, I mean my god you can be an axe murderer, ask for forgiveness at the hangmans noose and technically you go to heaven. You can go to the parole board, show you've "accepted Jesus" and that can help get you paroled. If you want to go to leniency, Christianity is one of the most lax religions currently around. Again, "turn the other cheek". Hell you can go to a United Methodist Church and have a tranny in full drag preaching to you or an Episcopalian church as they give you a full sermon on pronouns with full rainbow flag.
Yep. Religion is next on their list of institutions to corrupt. And they'll succeed. Christianity will not be a safe place to retreat to.
You aren't able to think enough to get the point in the first place. The point being you are always going to be living under a religion, whether its organized or state religion, your choice. You listed you don't like Christianity and you have preference for atheism.
Where did I "list" that? You keep saying things that are not true. I happen to like Christianity. It's some of the Christians I have an issue with.
I suggest you take a step back and get your shit together.
Quote from: Brad on March 04, 2023, 08:17:29 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 04, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
Aw. Going for the personal attack now? ;)
You going to answer or continue to be a fucking idiot?
Answer what? Where on the Jesus plushie my feels got crushed? It was on my wee-wee, of course. Your question was stupid and deserved a dismissive response.
Quote"They're just as bad!" Nope. If you think so you're a moron, 100%.
They're the same kind of bad. I can't help if you want to believe differently.