Quote from: Corolinth on March 02, 2023, 11:58:58 PM

Quote from: Brad on March 01, 2023, 09:36:02 AM

Quote from: Dapig on March 01, 2023, 08:12:55 AMThis is literally no different than the hyper-religious nut-bars of the 80's and 90's claiming that D&D caused harm because it eroded Christian values and gave the Devil a foothold in people's lives.

See, I take issue with these sorts of statements because they try to equivocate deeply held, serious religious concerns over occult-like imagery with purely imagined nonsense. There is a massive difference between stating tomes detailing the statistics of literal demons and devils can be problematic for youth, and having evil races of sub-human monsters is somehow racist against black people. It's not even fucking close. So, yes, the Satanic Panic was mostly stupid, but at least came from a place of genuine concern. This woke nonsense comes from a place of race grifters trying to capitalize on dumbasses buying into their Marxist rhetoric.

The woke nonsense isn't exactly the same as the Satanic Panic, because no two things are ever exactly the same, but nearly every single beat of the current woke climate mirrors evangelical Christianity of the late 20th century, and the early 2000s. This is a bitter pill for Christians to swallow, and it's also one of the most important things that Christians don't understand. The view you have of the left right now is how moderate normies have viewed "the right" for the past several decades. Those moderate normies are excusing the radical Marxist revolutionaries the same way you're excusing the radical fundamentalist Christians.

Yup. The horseshoe is real, even if one side of it is wwaaayyy more powerful and in control at the moment.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 02, 2023, 05:03:51 PM
This is no different. Everyone sees themselves as the good guys fighting the good fight. Plenty of grifters and ideologues use mainstream religion to garner money and power. And they need a villian to rally the troops. Those troops are the people with "genuine concern".

It absolutely is different: Marxists are objectively evil.

Quote from: Brad on March 03, 2023, 05:57:31 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 02, 2023, 05:03:51 PM
This is no different. Everyone sees themselves as the good guys fighting the good fight. Plenty of grifters and ideologues use mainstream religion to garner money and power. And they need a villian to rally the troops. Those troops are the people with "genuine concern".

It absolutely is different: Marxists are objectively evil.

And so are the religious nuts.

I would argue that the so-called religious right never, ever enjoyed the sheer amount of soft and hard power that the current idpol/socjus left does.

The difference is that when a fundamentalist minister says that there is nothing wrong with D&D, it might get a one-sentence quote in a local newspaper, at the end of the article, and then never be discussed again. At the time.  All the local newspapers that would have given you  even that much then are now either defunct or bought and operated as leftist propaganda mills.  Whereas when a leftist says that maybe orcs aren't racist, they are kicked out of the SJW church.  It's the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia effect in coordinated action with all the SJW-controlled institutions. 

In other words, being a "religious nut" is Marxist orthodoxy whereas being a "religious nut" is against the orthodoxy of Christians. You'd have to actually study both orthodoxies and meet a valid cross-sample of each--not the ones the press select for you--to know that, though.  Or you could just understand the nature of the press and calibrate accordingly. 

Or in other, other words, the Christian "religious nut" is answerable on his own terms, whereas the Marxist "religious nut" is not.  Or back to Brad's succinct summary.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 03, 2023, 08:13:53 AM
In other words, being a "religious nut" is Marxist orthodoxy whereas being a "religious nut" is against the orthodoxy of Christians.

One way I'd put it is that Christianity according to the New Testament is not a totalitarian belief system, it has always distinguished between the secular and sacred realms. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". Attempts to make it a totalising ideology have tended to be shortlived, and/or a minority taste. Our current Neo-Marxism is very much a totalitarian ideology, even moreso than classical Marxism of the Stalinist or Maoist varieties I think - though it's closest to Maoism.

The other difference about the Satanic Panic Christians and todays Woke Marxists is that the Christians were reacting in fear whereas the Marxists are co-opting for power. There is an overlap in some of it for sure (ie censorship), but their aims were completely different.

The Christians didn't infiltrate the ranks and scrutinize everything demanding changes being made in accordance with their ideology. Also, almost every upset/concerned/worried Christian from that time eventually came to see through what was mostly false and overblown concerns. Things mellowed out for the most part because people learned the truth. There are always nuts in religions, but wokeism turns everyone into a nut. There are numerous tales of how kids convinced their Christian parents that it's just a game. What happens when you try to convince a wokey that orcs or space monkeys aren't black people?

That really is a big difference.

Quote from: halfling rogue on March 03, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
The other difference about the Satanic Panic Christians and todays Woke Marxists is that the Christians were reacting in fear whereas the Marxists are co-opting for power.

You do hear a lot of "JK Rowling is LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE" type stuff from Wokesters, though. I do think fear is a motivator. The Christians feared for our Immortal Souls. The Wokesters fear for Black Bodies, or Trans Bodies. It's much easier to justify your own aggression when you can say Words Are Violence and Literally Killing People.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 03, 2023, 07:58:43 AM
I would argue that the so-called religious right never, ever enjoyed the sheer amount of soft and hard power that the current idpol/socjus left does.

I would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PM
I would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.

I'm sure it varies by region. In Tennessee or Belfast (Northern Ireland) I think the Religious Right was a big deal. Not so much in New York, Seattle or London. The areas least vulnerable to the Religious Right are mostly those most vulnerable to the Woke Left.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 07:29:16 AM
And so are the religious nuts.

Sure, okay.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 03, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI would argue against that. Anyone remember the Moral Majority? Millions of people tuning in and tossing money at the 700 Club or the PTL Club? Listening to what they had to say and influencing American politics? I think the social justice stuff feels more dangerous because it's now and it's unresolved.

Okay, so? They're stupid. They also thought they were granting eternal salvation to people. While retarded, it's at least commendable from a pragmatic viewpoint. The only thing Marxists offer is to bask in the glory of the State before your body is ground up into soylent green. I am sympathetic to the religious people who got duped by shysters, I loathe the woke retards who think they're winning brownie points on the internet by sending wrongthinking citizens to the gulags.

Greetings!

I think that people that want to equate the "Satanic Panic" and the "Moral Majority" of the 1980's with the current Marxist fucking tyranny are unfortunately allowing their own deep-seated anti-Christian animus to blind them to the reality that the two are NOT THE SAME. They have only a very few overlapping characteristics, and are obviously, blatantly, entirely, totally different. Fuck the "Satanic Panic" and a few over-lathered Christians. Marxist tyrants are literally overthrowing our entire fucking society. Not just getting stroked about our little hobby world. Geesus. Hobby Word=/= the whole fucking society being plunged into insane, Marxist tyranny. Some of these people engaging in such hyperbolic, false equivalency really do not seem to understand the TOTAL DIFFERENCE in scope and scale, as well as methods, motives, and actual actions.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 03, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Greetings!

I think that people that want to equate the "Satanic Panic" and the "Moral Majority" of the 1980's with the current Marxist fucking tyranny are unfortunately allowing their own deep-seated anti-Christian animus to blind them to the reality that the two are NOT THE SAME. They have only a very few overlapping characteristics, and are obviously, blatantly, entirely, totally different. Fuck the "Satanic Panic" and a few over-lathered Christians. Marxist tyrants are literally overthrowing our entire fucking society. Not just getting stroked about our little hobby world. Geesus. Hobby Word=/= the whole fucking society being plunged into insane, Marxist tyranny. Some of these people engaging in such hyperbolic, false equivalency really do not seem to understand the TOTAL DIFFERENCE in scope and scale, as well as methods, motives, and actual actions.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yeah, pretty much. I wrote out some stuff but it sounded preachy and this is an RPG board.

Let's all remember the Satanic Panic was before the internet. A lot of well meaning folks saw Jim & Tammy hold up the Dungeon Masters Guide with the devil-like Efretti and had no real way to research that outside of going to the game shop themselves.

I don't think TSR pushed back because it increased sales even if it made some gamers miserable. Gary was a pretty religious guy, he could have gone onto the 700 Club or whatever show and discussed the game. He could have held up that DMs Guide and pointed out the adventurers are fighting against that devil-like Efretti. Then ask them why they are opposed to people fighting Satan? Mic drop.

Quote from: Ruprecht on March 03, 2023, 07:19:50 PM
Let's all remember the Satanic Panic was before the internet. A lot of well meaning folks saw Jim & Tammy hold up the Dungeon Masters Guide with the devil-like Efretti and had no real way to research that outside of going to the game shop themselves.

I don't think TSR pushed back because it increased sales even if it made some gamers miserable. Gary was a pretty religious guy, he could have gone onto the 700 Club or whatever show and discussed the game. He could have held up that DMs Guide and pointed out the adventurers are fighting against that devil-like Efretti. Then ask them why they are opposed to people fighting Satan? Mic drop.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Very true, Ruprecht!

Interestingly, yeah, Gary was quite religious. He was proud of being a Christian. Naturally, he was flawed as we all are--but he was steadfast in his Christian faith.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK