Quote from: Greentongue;918908I must be dense because I don't see the "problem" that you are talking about.
From the EPT rules there is no complex detailed social construct. [...]

Now I agree that since the initial release, the complex social construct has been detailed but, I don't think that invalidates playing the original EPT as written with a completely different spin.
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You're one of the few I know who has a 1975 edition. I'd have no possibility to compare, way outta my league. The speculative prices of Tekumel are pretty crazy, which brings us back to that "What RPG Product Will You Pay $200+ For."

A lot of Tekumel used product is pretty expensive, and that itself might be an exposure problem. The core seems like it needs an OSR reboot to democratize the content or system or whatever makes EPT special. I've seen a few small publisher takes on it -- but where the fuck to start? There's not even an easily found Wikia. I can imagine it a problem for many newly interested.

Quote from: Opaopajr;918921You're one of the few I know who has a 1975 edition. I'd have no possibility to compare, way outta my league. The speculative prices of Tekumel are pretty crazy, which brings us back to that "What RPG Product Will You Pay $200+ For."

A lot of Tekumel used product is pretty expensive, and that itself might be an exposure problem. The core seems like it needs an OSR reboot to democratize the content or system or whatever makes EPT special. I've seen a few small publisher takes on it -- but where the fuck to start? There's not even an easily found Wikia. I can imagine it a problem for many newly interested.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2060/Empire-of-the-Petal-Throne?it=1

I did a search on "Empire of the Petal Throne pdf". First hit.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;918950http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2060/Empire-of-the-Petal-Throne?it=1

I did a search on "Empire of the Petal Throne pdf". First hit.

Oh, thank god. That's far more reasonable. (Hmm, Maps for EPT and Jakalla are separate purchases, for $8 and $4 respectively... :mad: ) Well, at least all together it's a tenth of the going used price. :cool:

Quote from: Opaopajr;918958Oh, thank god. That's far more reasonable. (Hmm, Maps for EPT and Jakalla are separate purchases, for $8 and $4 respectively... :mad: ) Well, at least all together it's a tenth of the going used price. :cool:

Depending on how detailed you need, there are digital copies available to ballpark things with.
Again, if you fill in the details as needed for your own game, I think there is enough to play with.

There is a copy of Jakalla even.
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Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;918777We do?

Never heard of that. But the novel was published in 1988. I remember that it didn't catch my fancy when I saw it in book stores back then. Bought other stuff instead (McKillip, Vance, Le Guin, Wolfe...).



And while EPT was the inspiration for the first German RPG, Magira/Midgard, the first thing the author/translator did was strip the Tekumel references from the rules and convert the system to a more down-to-earth, almost Hârn-like, game.

But some of the exoticism remained in the game. Among the first setting books that were published for both Midgard (and much later the spin-off game Abenteuer in Magira), was fantasy India (called Rawindra and Ranabar, respectively). Which made Midgard a hard sell - fans craved for trad regions like Clanthon, Erainn, Alba that were referenced in the rules all the time.

Thanks guys!!! I've just been using google translate to read the German material I can find online. Now I have even more material to use for "mash-ups"!!! When I need it...

This is just a little reflection of what goes on in the real world on many levels. Some will love it. Others will loathe it. Others lurk...Some have the means to pay crazy prices for old books. Others do not. No different with non-niche hobbies or passtimes. What is it that Gronan says...!!!

H:0)

Quote from: Opaopajr;918921You're one of the few I know who has a 1975 edition. I'd have no possibility to compare, way outta my league. The speculative prices of Tekumel are pretty crazy, which brings us back to that "What RPG Product Will You Pay $200+ For."

Dont have the books handy at the moment but Adventures in Tekumel touches on the society too. Though the lifepath chargen has the PC as a noble of some sort.

Quote from: Omega;919053Dont have the books handy at the moment but Adventures in Tekumel touches on the society too. Though the lifepath chargen has the PC as a noble of some sort.

Yes, the divergence from "your world" to "The Professor's World" started with later releases.
That is the way of Canon formation. Someone publishes a few more details and they become the foundation of Holy Writ.

My point in this thread is that the concept was enough when it was released for people to pay a premium for it.
In my opinion the addition of "The Professor's" version does not invalidate its value as a starting point for people that want to treat it as the seed for "Neverwhere".
Heck, it would be fine for a "Conan in the East" style game. So what that it is not "what makes Tekumel special" in some people's minds?

I just don't understand the thinking that since there is an "OFFICIAL" version, that is all that can be done with it.

Maybe there is concern that the Copyright Police will swoop in or that the people that hated on Janny Wurts and Raymond E. Feist for their "Daughter of the Empire" series will hunt down anyone "corrupting" the setting with their own vision?
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Quote from: Greentongue;919068I just don't understand the thinking that since there is an "OFFICIAL" version, that is all that can be done with it.

Maybe there is concern that the Copyright Police will swoop in or that the people that hated on Janny Wurts and Raymond E. Feist for their "Daughter of the Empire" series will hunt down anyone "corrupting" the setting with their own vision?
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Right. Though to be fair. Adventures touches on various lifestyles. Magical study, military study, merchanteering/trade, even exploration, parenthood, and hardships galore. So it at least paints a broad range of possible activities.

Having missed out on all the other editions its interesting to see how the setting evolved over time.

Yes, it certainly has become unique over time.
Quite interesting but also intimidating to many.

In my opinion, later updates make it much more of a challenge to play a "Juan Karter of Tekumel" style game.
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NON-INTIMIDATING TEKUMEL

or

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW TO PLAY 1975 EotPT IN ONE BRIEF HAND-OUT:

You live on Tekumel, a steamy-hot jungle world with two moons, no white people, no horses, very little metal, and no stars in the sky. Humans are the main sentient race but there are many others, all very alien. There are "Monsters" in the wilderness and The Underworld (The planet-wide linked web of "Dungeons"- the whole crust is a mega-dungeon, basically) and they are the stuff of H.R. Geiger's worst bad acid trip. Your characters don't know it (And pretty have no chance of ever knowing it) but Tekumel is a lost colony of a human star-faring empire 100,000+ years in our future. There are no more Caucasians because the Americas (Except rural Guatemala), Europe, and all of Asia except rural Sri Lanka and the Yemeni deep desert got wiped in a nuclear war long before recorded history.

You are barbarians from some obscure podunk nation. Probably buck naked, maybe in a grass skirt. Your shitty boat has just washed up on the shores of Tsolyanu, "The Empire of the Petal Throne". It's a very, very old, regimented, bigoted, densely populated, socially complex, and massive authoritarian empire that's sorta like a cross between the Aztecs and Ancient China. Sorta. Kinda. If you squint hard. Tsolyanu is where the action is. Everything in the EotPT revolves around clans... you underworld-crawl so that you can buy, weasel, or marry yourself into a clan. You are a murder-hobo, but you're a wannabe-bourgeoisie murder-hobo and there is sort of a point to it. Like Feudal Japan, "Face" and showing proper respect is really important. All crimes have only one punishment in the Empire: Being publicly impaled on a sharp pole stuck up your ass. However, only the worst cases actually reach Imperial justice, usually things get settled clan-to-clan with blood money, gifts, concessions, poisonings, etc.

Slavery, nudity, human sacrifice and drugs are all the culturally accepted day-to-day norm (Except for the weird heroin-analog drug that's sold by the scorpion-men pirates that have stone boats and rape you with their tails). Tsolyani culture is crazy-ass "Callous" by the standards of Modern Western morality. There are "Gods" (Awesome Lovecraftian alien energy beings), and their temples have a near-monopoly on magic. The gods fall into two factions: The Gods of Stability and The Gods of Change. You might think that they would hate each other but they seem to have more-or-less reached an understanding and can't fight each other openly. Your weapons and armor are made out of alchemically-treated dinosaur hide about as hard as bronze and can be in whatever outlandish color or shapes that you can afford (i.e. spiky zig-zag hook swords that make Klingon melee weapons look sensible).

OK, anything I forgot? Anything you would have worded differently?

Quote from: Greentongue;919119Yes, it certainly has become unique over time.
Quite interesting but also intimidating to many.

In my opinion, later updates make it much more of a challenge to play a "Juan Karter of Tekumel" style game.
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Adventures was pretty accessible. It walks you all the way through chargen and then opens up those FF style adventures which also helps show the player some insights into the lands, cultures and some of the beings.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;919155OK, anything I forgot? Anything you would have worded differently?

hmm. Add that Tekumel was once a heavily terraformed resort world visited by humans and aliens. The original inhabitants are still pissed off at the terraforming and being ousted from their lands. Theres lost tech from all the ruins of the spacefaring age out there waiting to be re-discovered.

Adventures swaps out the barbarians for low to high level nobles more versed in the culture. More options than pure combat seems to be up for grabs.

Your characters don't know it (And pretty have no chance of ever knowing it) but Tekumel is a lost colony of a human star-faring empire 100,000+ years in our future.
... which is why there are lost Techno-magic items scattered everywhere.

you underworld-crawl so that you can buy, weasel, or marry yourself into a clan.
you do the odd jobs that no respectable person would do like underworld-crawl so that you can buy, weasel, or marry yourself into a clan and become respectable.;
The more flamboyant your actions, the more likely a clan will be attracted to you, or have you dealt with.

The gods fall into two factions: The Gods of Stability and The Gods of Change.
The gods fall into two factions: The Gods of Good and The Gods of Evil. "Good" is from a Modern Western morality as they promote Stability while the "Evil" ones promote Anarchy. Both sets barely care about their worshipers and rarely answer prayers. There are other individual Lovecraftian alien energy beings but they and their followers are suppressed.

*** Sticking to just the EPT rule set.

QuoteEverything in the EotPT revolves around clans... you underworld-crawl so that you can buy, weasel, or marry yourself into a clan. You are a murder-hobo, but you're a wannabe-bourgeoisie murder-hobo and there is sort of a point to it.

This little bit reminds me of Skyrealms of Jorune, which ultimate goal was for you to gain citizenship, if I remember correctly. It's nice to have a purpose beyond loot.