Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;932398I'll sign up for exploration over endless hack and slash any day. This is what I have been doing in my games for years.

Shemek.

Agreed! It always seemed more for fun for everyone, including Phil...

"What the hell is this, Barker?!?" - Gronan, on many occasions

"I dunno. Look for yourself." - Phil, in his usual less-then-helpful manner

"Let me look at that!" -Origo, in his usual inquisitive way

"Why are Chirine and Vrisa lying on the floor?" - Kayalen, on her first time out with the party

"Move over, you two, and stop hogging the whole floor!" - Kayalen, on her second time out with the party

"Where are my eyebrows?" - Origo, after the loud noise and bright lights subside

Accurate, there, my General?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932394Agreed! I don't mind a little swordplay along the way, but exploration was always our big emphasis.

I don't mind lots of swordplay, even:). The point was more to increase the relative share of "meeting new people and places" in our current games.

And after that we can get to the skulduggery and swordplay with said new people, and call it "a trading expedition".

Quote from: Greentongue;928887If Swords of the Petal Throne had been the original rules, would the setting still have been considered too dense?

Would the rule presentation really have made the difference?

I'm assuming that the initial price for the box set was the major roadblock. I know it certainly hurt my pocket at the time.
Luckily, I had the disposable income from being in the Navy.
=

Back in the day we didn't consider the density of Tekumel to be a roadblock. We dove in head first into Tekumel, Glorantha, and dense mechanics like Chivalry and Sorcery and Space Opera.
If EPT had been a little less expensive, a little more widely available, I think it really could have caught on well.

We were actually attracted to games that encouraged exploration and encounters of the cultural variety rather than the straight up combat and traps that D&D seemed to popularize. At least that's how it was in our remote, little corner of northern New York state.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932414Agreed! It always seemed more for fun for everyone, including Phil...

"What the hell is this, Barker?!?" - Gronan, on many occasions

"I dunno. Look for yourself." - Phil, in his usual less-then-helpful manner

"Let me look at that!" -Origo, in his usual inquisitive way

"Why are Chirine and Vrisa lying on the floor?" - Kayalen, on her first time out with the party

"Move over, you two, and stop hogging the whole floor!" - Kayalen, on her second time out with the party

"Where are my eyebrows?" - Origo, after the loud noise and bright lights subside

Accurate, there, my General?

Kayalen and I are quite literally laughing out loud at this.  TOTALLY accurate.

"Hold my Ma'ash Brandy and watch this"... Origo, too often

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;932398I'll sign up for exploration over endless hack and slash any day. This is what I have been doing in my games for years.

Shemek.

I have found it hard to get people into an "explorer" mindset.  They have been so thoroughly programmed by modules and computer games that if a mysterious stranger with black cloak, black hood, black dirk, black boots, black mace, and two red glowing fires where his eyes should be does not walk up to them and say "I understand you undertake quests," they'll sit there.

I began the campaign for my current group of players with their characters returning to the village in which they lived to find a cluster of villagers holding pitchforks, hoes and other improvised weapons while the butcher's son lay dead on the ground (with greenish blood on the blade of his cleaver). One of the players imediately asked "can we kill all the villagers?" All I could say in response was "you can try..."

Thankfully one of the other players spoke up and reminded the first that "the GM doesn't like murderhoboes". I was afraid I was going to have a TPK in the first scene.

Quite a change for me from the sort I am used to gaming with, who at the slightest mention of something intersting are off like a shot to pursue it, even if it was intended to be just a fragment of overheard tavern talk not a plot hook.

Quote from: AsenRG;932417I don't mind lots of swordplay, even:). The point was more to increase the relative share of "meeting new people and places" in our current games.

And after that we can get to the skulduggery and swordplay with said new people, and call it "a trading expedition".

You've been talking to Harchar again, haven't you?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932439Kayalen and I are quite literally laughing out loud at this.  TOTALLY accurate.

"Hold my Ma'ash Brandy and watch this"... Origo, too often

Yep. All too many times, to the point where we thought abut getting thinner armor so we could get closer to the floor.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932440I have found it hard to get people into an "explorer" mindset.  They have been so thoroughly programmed by modules and computer games that if a mysterious stranger with black cloak, black hood, black dirk, black boots, black mace, and two red glowing fires where his eyes should be does not walk up to them and say "I understand you undertake quests," they'll sit there.

I said it in another thread as well, Glorious General. But I did come up with a solution to that after running whole campaigns for people who had only played MMORPGs, and thus expected exactly the above...

1. Announce that the XP is only going to be given for "good roleplaying" and "chasing your goals".
2. Make them write short-, middle- and long-term goals on the character sheets.
2a. If they can't come up with some, write some for them (they can freely change them by IC actions or between sessions, so it's no big deal).
3. Explain that nobody offers quests unless they have reputations to match, and then those quests aren't often related to their goals.
3a. Make it clear they don't have such reputations, yet. So the planning is up to them.

It works for me:).

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932446You've been talking to Harchar again, haven't you?

No, he hasn't featured in the campaign lately...
Maybe we're just holding to a similar outlook?

Maybe I have to feature him again, now that you mention it;).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932439Kayalen and I are quite literally laughing out loud at this.  TOTALLY accurate.

"Hold my Ma'ash Brandy and watch this"... Origo, too often

So, what were Chirine and Vrisa doing on the floor:D?

Quote from: DavetheLost;932445I began the campaign for my current group of players with their characters returning to the village in which they lived to find a cluster of villagers holding pitchforks, hoes and other improvised weapons while the butcher's son lay dead on the ground (with greenish blood on the blade of his cleaver). One of the players imediately asked "can we kill all the villagers?" All I could say in response was "you can try..."

Thankfully one of the other players spoke up and reminded the first that "the GM doesn't like murderhoboes". I was afraid I was going to have a TPK in the first scene.

Quite a change for me from the sort I am used to gaming with, who at the slightest mention of something intersting are off like a shot to pursue it, even if it was intended to be just a fragment of overheard tavern talk not a plot hook.

Maybe you could try the above trick, too?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932440I have found it hard to get people into an "explorer" mindset.  They have been so thoroughly programmed by modules and computer games that if a mysterious stranger with black cloak, black hood, black dirk, black boots, black mace, and two red glowing fires where his eyes should be does not walk up to them and say "I understand you undertake quests," they'll sit there.

Oh Glorious General I know exactly what you mean. Fortunately I have been gaming with a lot of the same guys for more than 30 years, and they quickly learnt, back in "Ye Olden Dayes", that they will have to look for adventures, and that it was probably the little skinny guy sitting in the gutter, and begging for coins who was more likely to be of use than the "mysterious dark stranger".


Shemek

I was talking to a friend about this... the  young gamer I've mentioned a couple times who's tossed over 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and is now a devoted OD&D referee...

Anyway, after a bit, he said somewhat plaintively, "I don't know HOW to look for adventure!"

So I pointed this out on my city map:

1) There are docks and warehouses by the river, which is navigable.
2) Merchandise is traveling by water.
3) Therefore, there are pirates.  Do you want to fight them or join them?

It was rather a revelation to him.

Also, of there are import duties or tariffs, there will be smugglers and a Shore Patrol.  Same as above.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932929I was talking to a friend about this... the  young gamer I've mentioned a couple times who's tossed over 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and is now a devoted OD&D referee...

Anyway, after a bit, he said somewhat plaintively, "I don't know HOW to look for adventure!"

So I pointed this out on my city map:

1) There are docks and warehouses by the river, which is navigable.
2) Merchandise is traveling by water.
3) Therefore, there are pirates.  Do you want to fight them or join them?

It was rather a revelation to him.

Also, of there are import duties or tariffs, there will be smugglers and a Shore Patrol.  Same as above.

That's the problem with the new mantra of "RPGs create stories" rather than the old paradigm of "RPGs create worlds".  People don't look at the setting like their character actually would.  They interact with it from without, a meta-construct, rather than from within.

Modern RPGs are filled with horseshit useless advice about Tropes, Themes, Acts, Scenes, etc... as if they are training people to write screenplays.  Which makes sense since almost all the new breed of designers are wannabe novelists or videogame writers.  

Say what you want about Gary's florid prose, in the DMG, he told you how to run a world players could roleplay in, not a story in which they could play the part - and yes there's a difference.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932929I was talking to a friend about this... the  young gamer I've mentioned a couple times who's tossed over 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and is now a devoted OD&D referee...

Anyway, after a bit, he said somewhat plaintively, "I don't know HOW to look for adventure!"

So I pointed this out on my city map:

1) There are docks and warehouses by the river, which is navigable.
2) Merchandise is traveling by water.
3) Therefore, there are pirates.  Do you want to fight them or join them?

It was rather a revelation to him.

Also, of there are import duties or tariffs, there will be smugglers and a Shore Patrol.  Same as above.

I'm officially bookmarking this for the next time someone claims "there's no adventure but what the GM thought about" or "you need to go to adventure, it's never going to happen if you're just doing your job".

Quote from: CRKrueger;932930That's the problem with the new mantra of "RPGs create stories" rather than the old paradigm of "RPGs create worlds".  People don't look at the setting like their character actually would.  They interact with it from without, a meta-construct, rather than from within.

Modern RPGs are filled with horseshit useless advice about Tropes, Themes, Acts, Scenes, etc... as if they are training people to write screenplays.  Which makes sense since almost all the new breed of designers are wannabe novelists or videogame writers.

I've been trained to write screenplays and find the advice in most, though not all non-narrative RPGs kinda lacking;). But when playing or running a game, that's not what I want, and just having a PC with a flair for the dramatic usually leads to better stories than following a structure, IME.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;932929I was talking to a friend about this... the  young gamer I've mentioned a couple times who's tossed over 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder and is now a devoted OD&D referee...

Anyway, after a bit, he said somewhat plaintively, "I don't know HOW to look for adventure!"

So I pointed this out on my city map:

1) There are docks and warehouses by the river, which is navigable.
2) Merchandise is traveling by water.
3) Therefore, there are pirates.  Do you want to fight them or join them?

It was rather a revelation to him.

Also, of there are import duties or tariffs, there will be smugglers and a Shore Patrol.  Same as above.

Oh, for crissakes. Just shoot me now, and put me out of my misery. Harchar would have just thrown himself over the side at this.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;932971Oh, for crissakes. Just shoot me now, and put me out of my misery. Harchar would have just thrown himself over the side at this.

You can teach the same lesson, Uncle;).