So from the other thread...

Let's pretend they were taking ideas about doing 5e Spelljammer. What would you like to change/keep? What assumptions about the standard game worlds need to change? Or do you leave it as is and just do a rules conversion?

Space - is it vaccuum or not? It impacts the game in subtle ways.

Cultures - Imperial Elves, Scro, etc. Which cultures are spacefaring? Do you create templates for what your worlds SHOULD be like with spacefaring as part of it? I said fuck it, and Waterdeep and Calimport are Spelljamming ports. You can't hide that kinda shit.

Crystal Spheres - Keep or toss?

Magitech-level - Smokepowder? Or up the ante with Fireball guns, and lightning rifles using some "magical crystals" for ammo-packs? It would take little effort to go Fantasy Star Wars.

Construction rules - Spelljammer dodged the issue much like Star Wars does on how Spelljammers (hyperdrives) are created: you can only purchase them in-game from Arcane (or you steal one from an existing ship). What propels ships now? Do you need the huge crews? What kinds of ships are we talking about?

Everything else is window dressing. You could simulate a lot of things like Air Envelopes etc. through the use of magi-tech and keep the cold hard vacuum. Of course it would be a little grittier.

I hate the idea of galleons cruising in the void of space, I much prefer Dragonstar. Therefore, I would ditch both crystal spheres and galleon space travel. If galleons have to be kept, I would have something reminding of Lovecraft: in his stories there are some creatures that fly across the void, with the vague suggestion it is in a sort of mystical dimension. So I would have a travel based on Astral Projection, where boat and crew are projected in Astral, travel at the speed of thought, and then materialize on another world (no orbital travel). Destination would not require to know where the stars and planets are*; but knowing about a certain world somewhere, and having items, mystical rhymes and verses, etc. as a beacon to reach it. Everything that normally happens in space, would instead happen in the Astral plane. This way the campaign would remain entirely fantasy. I would of course include Lovecraft's moon-beasts in their black vessels...

(*: in fact, it might be based on Astrology rather than Astronomy! So a ship can travel to the right destination -i.e. with Astral Projection- only when the stars are in the right alignment.)

When Spelljammer topics come up I always drag in a mention of Monte Cook's 'Dark Space' setting for Rolemaster/Spacemaster.
It's decidedly darker, weirder and grittier than Spelljammer... without being 'grimdark' or 'gothic'.
Because I liked that setting so much whenever I've had the urge to try Spelljammer I find myself wanting to make it a more distinct space fantasy setting and lessen the presence of the iconic D&D settings like Greyhawk.

without the spheres its really not spelljamer anymore

The bizarro physics has to be kept. To me it was part of the charm of the setting.

Space boats, crystal spheres, wildspace being warm, air envelopes, explosive pholgiston, even the stupid hippo people are what make spelljammer what it is for me.

Quote from: Turanil;821772I hate the idea of galleons cruising in the void of space, I much prefer Dragonstar. Therefore, I would ditch both crystal spheres and galleon space travel. If galleons have to be kept, I would have something reminding of Lovecraft: in his stories there are some creatures that fly across the void, with the vague suggestion it is in a sort of mystical dimension. So I would have a travel based on Astral Projection, where boat and crew are projected in Astral, travel at the speed of thought, and then materialize on another world (no orbital travel). Destination would not require to know where the stars and planets are*; but knowing about a certain world somewhere, and having items, mystical rhymes and verses, etc. as a beacon to reach it. Everything that normally happens in space, would instead happen in the Astral plane. This way the campaign would remain entirely fantasy. I would of course include Lovecraft's moon-beasts in their black vessels...

(*: in fact, it might be based on Astrology rather than Astronomy! So a ship can travel to the right destination -i.e. with Astral Projection- only when the stars are in the right alignment.)

i dont really like the idea of the astral plane being used for reaching alternate material planes that should stay the plane of shadows job.

Quote from: Turanil;821772If galleons have to be kept, I would have something reminding of Lovecraft: in his stories there are some creatures that fly across the void, with the vague suggestion it is in a sort of mystical dimension. So I would have a travel based on Astral Projection, where boat and crew are projected in Astral, travel at the speed of thought, and then materialize on another world (no orbital travel). Destination would not require to know where the stars and planets are*; but knowing about a certain world somewhere, and having items, mystical rhymes and verses, etc. as a beacon to reach it. Everything that normally happens in space, would instead happen in the Astral plane. This way the campaign would remain entirely fantasy. I would of course include Lovecraft's moon-beasts in their black vessels...

Sounds a lot like the Astral Sea of 4e that combined Wildspace and the Astral Plane, with Spelljammer vessels plying "the spheres" (which is how "outer planes" i.e. other worlds appeared in the Astral Sea). But then I strongly feel the cosmology was the best thing about 4e.

The Lovecraft bits you've mentioned (I'm sorely unfamiliar with his Dreamlands stuff) would make fantastic additions to this framework.

Quote from: AxesnOrcs;821864Space boats, crystal spheres, wildspace being warm, air envelopes, explosive pholgiston, even the stupid hippo people are what make spelljammer what it is for me.

Exactly. Spelljammer isn't just "D&D in Space". Its so much more. Just making another setting of D&D in Space would not be Spelljammer unless you keep its quirks.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;821936Exactly. Spelljammer isn't just "D&D in Space". Its so much more. Just making another setting of D&D in Space would not be Spelljammer unless you keep its quirks.

So Spelljammer is definitely not for me. I bought the boxed set long ago, but then quickly sold it on ebay...

Quote from: Simlasa;821787When Spelljammer topics come up I always drag in a mention of Monte Cook's 'Dark Space' setting for Rolemaster/Spacemaster.
It's decidedly darker, weirder and grittier than Spelljammer... without being 'grimdark' or 'gothic'.
Because I liked that setting so much whenever I've had the urge to try Spelljammer I find myself wanting to make it a more distinct space fantasy setting and lessen the presence of the iconic D&D settings like Greyhawk.

Tell me more! I know nothing of this!

Quote from: Turanil;821772I hate the idea of galleons cruising in the void of space, I much prefer Dragonstar.

I like Dragonstar as a concept. I own all the books for it... have never run it. It would be too bait-and-switch for my players. I'd have to tell them upfront and frankly at this point in 5e I think Dragonstar could be done with a little elbow-grease.

Quote from: Turanil;821772Therefore, I would ditch both crystal spheres and galleon space travel. If galleons have to be kept, I would have something reminding of Lovecraft: in his stories there are some creatures that fly across the void, with the vague suggestion it is in a sort of mystical dimension. So I would have a travel based on Astral Projection, where boat and crew are projected in Astral, travel at the speed of thought, and then materialize on another world (no orbital travel).

Without going full Lovecraft (which is again, layering another strong flavor on top of Spelljammer which is it's own thing) - this opens up a fantastic possibility. So Galleons-whatever exist. But their "hyperspace" jumps are through the Astral Plane. This allows a more Gith presence - and grounds the game in a solidly standard D&D milieu (did I just write that word? /velch). Everything that exists in Spelljammer could easily be transported to this concept - with the added bonus of Planescape! Heady stuff!

Quote from: Turanil;821772*: in fact, it might be based on Astrology rather than Astronomy! So a ship can travel to the right destination -i.e. with Astral Projection- only when the stars are in the right alignment.)

You sir, are on to something here with this idea. I agree this is closer in concept to the 4e notion... but it could be made to work. Sure it's not the exact thing you're proposing, but I think it would work and could be done well. Hmm.

I would want it to keep much closer to the original than the ideas I'm seeing put forth here-- Wildspace, wonky gravity, and all. I'd handle it a lot like Pathfinder's solar system surrounding Golarion, except with Spelljammer physics.

My idea would be that it would come with one Crystal Sphere, detailed with seven or eight themed planets, and then hints about nearby Spheres. I'd maybe ditch the Sphere concept and the Phlogiston, and simply have systems be really far apart.

The core sphere would contain all of the standard D&D madness plus the Spelljammer madness, but the "main" planet would be pretty standard Europe + Asia with elves and dwarves, while things like civilized lizardmen and the kreen races would be from other planets in the system.

Quote from: tenbones;821746So from the other thread...

Let's pretend they were taking ideas about doing 5e Spelljammer. What would you like to change/keep? What assumptions about the standard game worlds need to change? Or do you leave it as is and just do a rules conversion?

Space - is it vaccuum or not? It impacts the game in subtle ways.

Cultures - Imperial Elves, Scro, etc. Which cultures are spacefaring? Do you create templates for what your worlds SHOULD be like with spacefaring as part of it? I said fuck it, and Waterdeep and Calimport are Spelljamming ports. You can't hide that kinda shit.

Crystal Spheres - Keep or toss?

Magitech-level - Smokepowder? Or up the ante with Fireball guns, and lightning rifles using some "magical crystals" for ammo-packs? It would take little effort to go Fantasy Star Wars.

Construction rules - Spelljammer dodged the issue much like Star Wars does on how Spelljammers (hyperdrives) are created: you can only purchase them in-game from Arcane (or you steal one from an existing ship). What propels ships now? Do you need the huge crews? What kinds of ships are we talking about?

Everything else is window dressing. You could simulate a lot of things like Air Envelopes etc. through the use of magi-tech and keep the cold hard vacuum. Of course it would be a little grittier.

Space is not vacuum, but has no breathable air.

Cultures should be spacefaring variants of D&D cultures.

No crystal spheres.

Definitely magitech, if not outright tech-tech.

I don't really care much about construction rules.  I suppose there should be some there, for the people who like that sort of thing; but there should also be lots of pre-made templates for those who don't.

most of those things are fine but the moment you take out the spheres it ceases to be spelljamer

nothing wrong with a different space setting but dont call it something its not

kinda like how there is nothing wrong with 4e style systems just dont say its d&d