Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
Vampires embodying the sin of Pride see their physical and mental attributes greatly heightened to beyond mortal levels. Their weakness is they lose these abilities or even find their baseline abilities hindered in the daytime (i.e. their pride is only justified in the dark of night... in the harsh light of day they're nothing special). Their bloodline founders swear fealty to Satan himself, the great dragon, and so I would label this type the Dracul (Vlad Tepes being the archetypal 'Dracula').

Excellent. What if you did something with mirrors? Either no reflection, since God has cursed them to never see the one thing they want to see the most, or Hideous reflection, where the mirror it reveals all of their inner ugliness (e.g. Dorian Gray)

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
The sin of Wrath brings out feral impulses that allow the vampire to take on animal-like traits and command savage beasts. Their weakness is an underlying rage that grows with their embrace of sin.

Nice.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
The sin of Lust grants a vampire powers of emotional manipulation and inhuman beauty with the weakness of being a growing emotional deadness (outside of rage if they have gained the sin of wrath) outside of sheer depravity as the pleasures of the flesh become too mundane to stimulate them.

Excellent.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
The sin of Greed grants a vampire telekinetic control over objects (all material goods belong to them) and an insatiable hunger to possess and flaunt material goods.

Hmm, not sold on this one. 

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
As mentioned, the sin of Envy produces a vampire who doesn't just take your life when they feed, they can take your LIFE by adopting the form and stealing the memories of those they feed upon. Their weakness though is obsession and stalker-ish behavior towards those they envy.

I love the doppleganger aspect. Ever see a movie from the 90's called Single White Female?

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
The sin of Gluttony allows the vampire to consume anything related to life and take on aspects of what they consume (you are what you eat). They are cursed with insatiable hunger far beyond that of normal vampires.

It works, but it seems a bit unfinished, not sure why.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
The sin of Sloth grants a vampire both incredible resilience (resistance to change) and command over dreams and sleep (at high levels they can even feed on victims through their dreams), but suffer from lethargy in daytime that at higher levels is practically indistinguishable from death.

Probably my favorite of the bunch.

---

It's a great start. I'm getting an In Nomine vibe from the whole thing, which kinda makes sense. The themes are solid, but the powers and weaknesses need some fine tuning and balancing against each other. For example, the Pride guy and Sloth guy aren't going to want to go out in daytime, and if the rest of the party agrees, they've essentially negated their weakness.

Advancement

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
I don't want to put in a strict correlation between level and in-character age. I feel that can be too restrictive and nonsensical. If the campaign starts in contemporary times and don't move very far into the future, then the PCs achieving high levels would break any attempt at correspondence between level and in-character age. If there's no strict correlation, then a starting PC could have a backstory as a centuries old vampire but still be level 1 for whatever reason (injury, laziness, luck, etc).

You're right, it's not going to work. Unless every campaign starts in 500 BC (or whenever) and hops forward in time. Not what I had in mind. I wanted vampires to grow in power as they age, but it can't work with PCs growing in power as they do stuff.

Vampires as Monsters

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
I do think cannibals can work purely as antagonists. I have this idea where some vampires just lose interest in being part of any society and turn into pure nightmare monsters that live on the periphery of civilization and eat any unfortunate mortals or vampires they happen across. This isn't like VTM's feral beast degeneration thing, these nightmare monsters can still possess the same intellect they had in life they just don't value temporal power or social interaction anymore. Some can be packs of feral beasts by an alpha, if desired.

I have something like this in mind as well, where vampires can degenerate and become dark reflections of their class. Although I hate the Sabbat, this is my take on the clan/antitribbu concept. It also owes a lot to Conspiracy X, where the traditional monsters of myth were actually magic-users who became corrupt and morphed into something non-human. One point of difference between your concept and mine is that I intend for these guys to be the badguys of the setting, so (some of them) are very much into temporal power. 

Other Magical Creatures

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
If other magical creatures exist, then they're limited to NPCs or are integrated into the rules as PC options who freely fraternize with the others Nightlife style. But the latter would require (re)designing the setting and rules from a new/different starting point.

The WOD mashups of the 90's were a dumpster fire. I've never read Nightlife, but we played the Dresden Files RPG once. It worked, but it would have worked better if the players were mortals investigating supernatural threats, rather than 6 different monster splats all working together for some very contrived reason. And that's what I fear the game will turn into. "Oh no, we're fighting the evil thing that is more evil than us, which will destroy the world unless we all work together... for the fourth time?"

But perhaps the inclusion of other creatures in the setting is inevitable. I just don't want to think about it right now.

Your Bloodlines

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
For example, instead of having multiple classes with variants of the lord shtick, you have a single archetypal Vampire Lord class and then different subclasses (or races?) for different bloodlines.

That's the approach I want to take with my classes. I want broad-based archetypes that are culturally and historically agnostic, so you can make a magic-using vampire that isn't beholden to a hermetic order from Vienna that was founded in the Middle Ages. It's why I want to stay away from the Gurps Blood Types approach.

I'll just throw it out there that my favorite depiction of vampires comes from the Dresden Files.  There's the red, white, and black courts, each with a different set of abilities.  Plus whatever the heck the boss monster vampire from the last book was; he doesn't seem to entirely fit any of the known types.  There's a lot of detailed description of what they can and can't do.  There's social structure, politics, and history.  In short, enough depth,  breadth, and consistency to make them interesting.  If I were to make my own vampire game I might just file off the serial numbers and go with that.

Quote from: Aglondir on April 27, 2023, 12:24:10 AM
Vampires as Monsters

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
I do think cannibals can work purely as antagonists. I have this idea where some vampires just lose interest in being part of any society and turn into pure nightmare monsters that live on the periphery of civilization and eat any unfortunate mortals or vampires they happen across. This isn't like VTM's feral beast degeneration thing, these nightmare monsters can still possess the same intellect they had in life they just don't value temporal power or social interaction anymore. Some can be packs of feral beasts by an alpha, if desired.

I have something like this in mind as well, where vampires can degenerate and become dark reflections of their class. Although I hate the Sabbat, this is my take on the clan/antitribbu concept. It also owes a lot to Conspiracy X, where the traditional monsters of myth were actually magic-users who became corrupt and morphed into something non-human. One point of difference between your concept and mine is that I intend for these guys to be the badguys of the setting, so (some of them) are very much into temporal power. 

Nephilim does the same as Conspiracy X. The PCs are half-human and half-elemental, and there's a risk of the elemental side taking over and turning the PC into an elemental beast. One mostly antagonist splat (I say mostly because they're supposed to be the corrupt version of a much more philosophical precursor) studies this phenomenon and learns to control and exploit it.

Yeah, I don't really like the sabbath either. In Nightlife there's a similar secret society called the Complex but they prefer to live in secret within human society and secretly work to create a work where they can enslave humanity and rule openly, but they're not sure whether this is even feasible so they keep their options open. They don't see humans as people, but they're not stupid or rabid. Unfortunately, the RAW don't actually make them tenable: they'd suffer from all their weakness at maximum and have no downsides to using their powers (powers cost humanity in these rules), when the rules assume these are problems for the PCs. I think Feed's "Los Satanicos" implements this concept far more elegantly, and I've even done a conversion of Nightlife to those rules.

QuoteOther Magical Creatures

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
If other magical creatures exist, then they're limited to NPCs or are integrated into the rules as PC options who freely fraternize with the others Nightlife style. But the latter would require (re)designing the setting and rules from a new/different starting point.

The WOD mashups of the 90's were a dumpster fire. I've never read Nightlife, but we played the Dresden Files RPG once. It worked, but it would have worked better if the players were mortals investigating supernatural threats, rather than 6 different monster splats all working together for some very contrived reason. And that's what I fear the game will turn into. "Oh no, we're fighting the evil thing that is more evil than us, which will destroy the world unless we all work together... for the fourth time?"

But perhaps the inclusion of other creatures in the setting is inevitable. I just don't want to think about it right now.

Ok, you should try to familiarize yourself with the premise of Nightlife because it works nothing like what you think. It works because the different "kin" races (they call themselves Kin, one year before Mark Rein-Hagen) share a single overarching society and don't segregate themselves. So it avoids the contrived reasons for working together because they rub shoulders as a matter of course. They're not high school cliques that arbitrarily segregate themselves for shallow reasons. Mixed parties are the norm.

QuoteYour Bloodlines

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2023, 09:28:03 AM
For example, instead of having multiple classes with variants of the lord shtick, you have a single archetypal Vampire Lord class and then different subclasses (or races?) for different bloodlines.

That's the approach I want to take with my classes. I want broad-based archetypes that are culturally and historically agnostic, so you can make a magic-using vampire that isn't beholden to a hermetic order from Vienna that was founded in the Middle Ages. It's why I want to stay away from the Gurps Blood Types approach.

Ok. Anyway, to go back to the vampire lord concept I was floating...

Giving them mind control is a no brainer, but I was also interested in fleshing out the lord concept further and introducing further powers that aren't just mind control or generic vampire powers. For example, over on someone's homebrew they came up with basically a minion master thing. The lord can make magical oaths, augment minions, limited prescience to know who they can trust, that sort of thing. I think devising powers like that would be good to flesh out the concept beyond the traditional stereotypes. Another example is that, in Vampyre Hack, its lord class is the only one that starts out with the powers to turn vampires or empower familiars for free while others have to learn it at cost.

Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 01:52:34 AM
I'll just throw it out there that my favorite depiction of vampires comes from the Dresden Files.  There's the red, white, and black courts, each with a different set of abilities.  Plus whatever the heck the boss monster vampire from the last book was; he doesn't seem to entirely fit any of the known types.  There's a lot of detailed description of what they can and can't do.  There's social structure, politics, and history.  In short, enough depth,  breadth, and consistency to make them interesting.  If I were to make my own vampire game I might just file off the serial numbers and go with that.

Oh right! I forgot about that. It does something similar for werewolves, which makes it a very unique setting.

I'm reading the Vampyre Hack blog's article on the design process behind the Zoltan. BTW, it shares its name with a ridiculous vampire dog b-movie and I cannot forget that. Anyway, the writer tries to do better with the concept as you can probably imagine. I noticed a huge gaping hole though: he doesn't know that it's originally a rip-off of the Wamphyri from Necroscope. I read the first five books years ago and it's somewhat different from Rein-Hagen's ripoff.

The Wamphyri are themselves shapeshifters, but their abilities in this regard are fairly limited. They can fly by flattening themselves, or grow moderately sized claws and fangs (they eat human flesh btw), but that's about it. However, on longer time scales they can dramatically mutate physically. The oldest one had turned into a hideous walking leech, while another trapped in a pit in Sicily had mutated over the centuries into a gigantic mass of flesh by consuming victims thrown in by its jailors, and one lord named "Vasagi the Suck" had removed his jaw and turned his mouth into a siphon. If they have an alchemical laboratory, then they can direct this process using vampirism-infected thralls as raw materials. On their homeplanet (they're aliens btw) they lived in castles that were composed of the mummified remains of victims they'd used as building materials. This is a universe where your soul remains conscious inside your corpse after death, so the entire castle doubles as a haunted necropolis ossuary thing. In one scene the main character, who is a medium, asks for directions from the dead people used to make a staircase. Meanwhile, still living victims are used to create reservoirs, heaters, air conditioners, indoor plumbing like sinks and toilets, etc. As well as living airplanes and "warrior creatures". You can see examples in the official art gallery: https://www.brianlumley.com/media/artists/paul/paul.html

Although the Wamphyri aren't classically undead (they're called "undead" in the books, but they still have all bodily functions and can reproduce sexually), they're incredibly durable. They can regenerate from anything short of destroying their body. They're human beings whose entire body is infected with parasitic superpowered hematophagous psychic fungus that will attempt to survive anyway it can, so you need to kill the fungus rather than the host. In one book, wamphyri are encountered frozen solid inside a glacier, still alive and capable of holding telepathic conversations, although their metabolism is slowed to the point they're able to survive a really long time without sustenance.

There are different forms of infection, with the overall progression ranging from "human thrall with bits of vampiric proto-flesh attached to their brain" to "hideous walking leech." The mature form of the infection, which what most of the villains reached, is a mostly human form with a giant tentacled leech wrapped around the spine and major organs. The leech is purely instinctive, but influences it host to give it the blood it hungers for by making the host constantly high. If the host is sufficiently incapacitated or locked in a room to starve, then the leech will evacuate their body.  This isn't a cure as the host is still infected by its cells and will commit suicide without the constant high provided by the leech.

There was actually a Necroscope RPG in the 90s from West End Games, although now long out of print. Some kind of byzantine legal dispute prevents it from being republished by the current owners of the West End Games IP inventory. It can be summarized as Night's Black Agents meets I Psi. It had a Wamphyri book, which included a section written in-character from the perspective of an E-Branch agent who had been infected by a leech egg. His life turned into a psychological body horror movie.

I find this more prolonged deterioration of humanity more effective horror than something like The Strain, where the horror comes from being enslaved and losing your soul rather than becoming a villain who enjoys eating people because your constantly high. Unfortunately, the actual novels don't really do this sort of thing to any of the characters. E-Branch agents who are infected die in short order without exploring their psychological transformation and two of the heroes get infected but are Gary Stus who can easily resist the leech's temptation. West End Games gave us the best fiction but it's questionably canon and locked behind copyright orphan status.

Anyhow, I've got some ideas for lineage and class concepts. I like Aglondir's ideas for classes: ruler, warrior, hunter, deceiver, outcast, sorcerer, and necromancer. I'm not reinventing the wheel for the moment. But these are just roles: They're not necessarily associated with particular cliques or lineages.

With lineages I wanted to do something that's loosely approximated by race in fantasy. A character may be any mix of lineage and class, with each lineage having their own takes on the classes.

I'll use a lineage I call "Carpathians" as an example:

Carpathian Ruler: classic Vlad Dracul types. Feudal lords.
Carpathian Warrior: Vlad Dracul, but emphasis on combat training. Feudal vassals.
Carpathian Hunter: the classic shapeshifter, assuming the forms of nocturnal mammals like wolves, rats, and bats.
Carpathian Deceiver: the brides.
Carpathian Outcast: academy award winner for vampire makeup effects
Carpathian Sorcerer or Necromancer: I ran out of ideas

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 29, 2023, 12:01:27 PM
Anyhow, I've got some ideas for lineage and class concepts. I like Aglondir's ideas for classes: ruler, warrior, hunter, deceiver, outcast, sorcerer, and necromancer. I'm not reinventing the wheel for the moment. But these are just roles: They're not necessarily associated with particular cliques or lineages.

With lineages I wanted to do something that's loosely approximated by race in fantasy. A character may be any mix of lineage and class, with each lineage having their own takes on the classes.

I'll use a lineage I call "Carpathians" as an example:

Carpathian Ruler: classic Vlad Dracul types. Feudal lords.
Carpathian Warrior: Vlad Dracul, but emphasis on combat training. Feudal vassals.
Carpathian Hunter: the classic shapeshifter, assuming the forms of nocturnal mammals like wolves, rats, and bats.
Carpathian Deceiver: the brides.
Carpathian Outcast: academy award winner for vampire makeup effects
Carpathian Sorcerer or Necromancer: I ran out of ideas

Not sure class+level is the way to go. Probably too limiting. My first idea was to do a VTM heartbreaker, using a modified B/X chassis sort of like what Kevin Crawford does for his Sine Nomine games.

But then it started to morph into my own vampire universe, with noble houses scheming for dominance. The classes became roles within the house: Leader, Warrior, Scout, and Mystic. The nosferatu-equivalent became the enemies, lurking in vast subterranean lairs created from abandoned subway tunnels and sewers. Next, I added in hellgates to other dark dimensions, so I could explain where the monsters were coming from. There were demons, but they were too "big" to come through the hellgates, so they had to act through minions.

I had the traditional vampire powers, which you could use with no concern. But sorcery, the real powerful stuff, was dangerous since it tapped into the dark dimensions for power. This causes the gates to expand, risking the chance that a demon will break through. I wanted to avoid the classic D&D spell list, but make thematic spells based on the powers of blood, shadows, dreams, and death. Seems like I need a fifth one...

Then I started to think of the progenitor, transmission, history, society, laws, etc. and wondered if I was just reinventing VTM. So I took a break, which is where I'm at now.

I'd recommend you stick with your 3 Hogwarts categories (passion, ambition, secrecy) and match that schema up with some of your bloodlines, since it's more original than my work.

Ok. Then I guess the traditional fighter, mage and thief trio could work. Or whatever the modern equivalent would be.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 01, 2023, 09:25:39 PM
Ok. Then I guess the traditional fighter, mage and thief trio could work. Or whatever the modern equivalent would be.

Adept, Expert, Warrior. That's from True 20, and much like what Kevin Crawford uses in his X Without Number games.

Or you could just use your bloodlines, and start buying skills and powers with character points.

My favorite 7 of your bloodlines, with comments. All of them have potential. Some of them I excluded because they have an origin story connected to a dark diety, and that's covered by the Apophians. For a setup like this, it's better to have a variety of origin stories to set the bloodlines apart. But in the end, my choices were arbitrary and represent my own preferences. You can easily swap the Followers of Ahriman for the Followers of Apophis, for example. Or choose the Banshee instead of the Raksasha. 

QuoteApophians are an Ancient Egyptian cult that venerate the demon Apophis as their founder. They style themselves enemies of cosmic order and devote their existences towards criminal enterprises that exploit and subtly undermine civilization.

WW's Setites were one of my favorite clans, due the ancient Egypt aspect. Set, per se, not so much. 

QuoteCarpathians are indigenous to the Carpathian Mountains; indeed, they must sleep in contact with the mountains' soil. They exhibit a natural talent for stereotypical vampiric powers like hypnotizing their victims and commanding (and turning into) nocturnal animals. A minority demonstrate an aptitude with an ancient (and disturbing) Slavic sorcery whose practices include elementalism, necromancy, and biomancy.

Perfect. I assume this is Dracula's bloodline, correct?

QuoteDisciples of the Necromantion are an Ancient Greek cult that dedicate themselves to studying magic, particularly necromancy. They venerate Hellenic and ancient Near East chthonic deities like Hades, Persephone, Hecate, and Ereshkigal, but members of the bloodline claim no particular descent.

Love the the blending of the Greek with the Near East. Weren't there some pre-Christian Greek mystery cults that focused on immortality, influenced by eastern mystery cults? But you need a better name.

QuoteHouse of Magnus claims descent from the medieval wizard Magnus the Great, who became a vampire by stealing the dark gift with alchemy. As such, the magnates are despised and distrusted by other vampires of respectable bloodlines.

A bloodline of medeival hermetic sorcerers is required. But again, need a better name. House of Anything sounds a lot like House Tremere.

QuoteMerovingians are a bloodline of vampires that claim descent from the historical Merovingian dynasty. Not only that, but members of the secret society the Priory of Sion claim that they are further descended from Jesus Christ. Merovingian vampires exhibit a talent for powers of mind control.

Excellent. But I'd switch "Jesus was a vampire" to one of the Merovigian saints was a vampire. Here's some interesting info from the Wikipedia article: "Many Merovingian saints, and the majority of female saints, were local ones, venerated only within strictly circumscribed regions; their cults were revived in the High Middle Ages, when the population of women in religious orders increased enormously."

QuoteStrigoi claim descent from the pre-Christian Slavic deity Chernobog. All members of this bloodline are cursed with a malaise of the visage, ranging from overt physical mutation, decay and rigor mortis to less obvious tells like a malign odor or an eerie presence. They exhibit affinities with vermin, disease, nightmares, mutation, and necromancy.

A WW Nosferatu equivalent is a must, and this is more interesting.

QuoteRakshasas are Indian vampires that claim descent from the demon king Ravana. They are masters of dark magic, mental manipulation, and illusions.

Included for pure Monster Manual pipe-smoking catman nostalgia.

Quote from: Aglondir on May 01, 2023, 11:15:38 PM
My favorite 7 of your bloodlines, with comments. All of them have potential. Some of them I excluded because they have an origin story connected to a dark diety, and that's covered by the Apophians. For a setup like this, it's better to have a variety of origin stories to set the bloodlines apart. But in the end, my choices were arbitrary and represent my own preferences. You can easily swap the Followers of Ahriman for the Followers of Apophis, for example. Or choose the Banshee instead of the Raksasha.

Ok. For reference, I have a longer brainstorming doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRXShVnJvKRhqFBMhqtBGA2j_AYDVKGXPqAsenH26MGPGdrY8phdsGEfsTtJklKT4ZUabvqZ3w5x7xU/pub

Quote

QuoteApophians are an Ancient Egyptian cult that venerate the demon Apophis as their founder. They style themselves enemies of cosmic order and devote their existences towards criminal enterprises that exploit and subtly undermine civilization.

WW's Setites were one of my favorite clans, due the ancient Egypt aspect. Set, per se, not so much. 

In my longer notes doc I gave more backstory to the evil cults and suggested they're actually descended from the same demon/antigod because they share many powers in common. The differences between them are mainly cultural and modus operandi: one focuses on subverting civilization from the bottom-up through criminal syndicates, the other focuses on subverting civilization from the top-down through manipulating social institutions and the media.

There's a novel I remember where the name "Second Sons of Apophis" was used. It had this origin myth where, after the Exodus, the priests who'd lost their firstborns adopted the worship of Apophis in vengeance and taught this to their second born sons. In modern times, they've adopted the practice of sacrificing Christian firstborn sons to Apophis. I'd like to use that. Even in-universe tho, I'd have characters speculate on whether it has any basis in fact due to the lack of evidence for the Exodus. One Sethian who was alive during the Hyksos dynasty and Akhenaton's reformation speculates that it might come from a distorted account of the priesthood's conflicts with that dynasty (which he claims were masterminded by the cult of Apophis to discredit the cult of Seth) and the Second Sons cult was actually founded by post-Christian Satanists who incorporated bits of Apophis worship they found without actually knowing the true history.

Quote

QuoteCarpathians are indigenous to the Carpathian Mountains; indeed, they must sleep in contact with the mountains' soil. They exhibit a natural talent for stereotypical vampiric powers like hypnotizing their victims and commanding (and turning into) nocturnal animals. A minority demonstrate an aptitude with an ancient (and disturbing) Slavic sorcery whose practices include elementalism, necromancy, and biomancy.

Perfect. I assume this is Dracula's bloodline, correct?

Yes. These are the classic gothic vampires. The reference to magic is made in case anybody wants to bring in Necroscope or Elizabeth Bathory stuff.

One idea I've considered is, rather than the stereotypical pagan or Satanic themes, they'd have adopted Christianity and reflavored their practices as miracles granted by God, the Angels and the Saints.

Quote

QuoteDisciples of the Necromantion are an Ancient Greek cult that dedicate themselves to studying magic, particularly necromancy. They venerate Hellenic and ancient Near East chthonic deities like Hades, Persephone, Hecate, and Ereshkigal, but members of the bloodline claim no particular descent.

Love the the blending of the Greek with the Near East. Weren't there some pre-Christian Greek mystery cults that focused on immortality, influenced by eastern mystery cults? But you need a better name.

The Necromantion was an ancient Greek temple of necromancy. I thought it was appropriate, and I enjoy the cross-language wordplay: it's pronounced like "necro mansion". It's also a reference to an old fansite that went offline years ago.

But I leave room for every group to have multiple names. You could name this Twilight Order, Golgothans, whatever.

Quote

QuoteHouse of Magnus claims descent from the medieval wizard Magnus the Great, who became a vampire by stealing the dark gift with alchemy. As such, the magnates are despised and distrusted by other vampires of respectable bloodlines.

A bloodline of medeival hermetic sorcerers is required. But again, need a better name. House of Anything sounds a lot like House Tremere.

It's a reference to Anne Rice's Magnus. His backstory is that he became a vampire by stealing the dark gift with magic. In my longer brainstorming doc I go into more detail in how they differ from other vampires. They need every pledge to perform a magic ritual to become a vampire. They don't have fangs but instead use magic to drain life.

They're not the only vampires who used magic to become vampires. I have a few others in my brainstorming.

Quote

QuoteMerovingians are a bloodline of vampires that claim descent from the historical Merovingian dynasty. Not only that, but members of the secret society the Priory of Sion claim that they are further descended from Jesus Christ. Merovingian vampires exhibit a talent for powers of mind control.

Excellent. But I'd switch "Jesus was a vampire" to one of the Merovigian saints was a vampire. Here's some interesting info from the Wikipedia article: "Many Merovingian saints, and the majority of female saints, were local ones, venerated only within strictly circumscribed regions; their cults were revived in the High Middle Ages, when the population of women in religious orders increased enormously."

Huh, I didn't know that before. I need to do more research.

Quote

QuoteStrigoi claim descent from the pre-Christian Slavic deity Chernobog. All members of this bloodline are cursed with a malaise of the visage, ranging from overt physical mutation, decay and rigor mortis to less obvious tells like a malign odor or an eerie presence. They exhibit affinities with vermin, disease, nightmares, mutation, and necromancy.

A WW Nosferatu equivalent is a must, and this is more interesting.

I decided to give them a theme based on around fear itself and the various things humans fear: death, disease, etc. This provides ready inspiration for developing them further. Maybe they have a magic system that lets them create their own pocket nightmare world that they can pull things out of, or pull people into? Etc.

Quote

QuoteRakshasas are Indian vampires that claim descent from the demon king Ravana. They are masters of dark magic, mental manipulation, and illusions.

Included for pure Monster Manual pipe-smoking catman nostalgia.

They can also cover Japanese Oni and the like. They're similar to the previous in that they're fear-themed, but focused on physical violence and manipulation rather than lingering decay.

I have a bunch more ideas in my brainstorming doc, including things like spider-themed vampires (I've also made these into a non-vampiric shapeshifter splat), vampiric drug lords that need to drink drugged blood but get access to higher consciousness, creepy child vampires that assert and defend themselves with powerful mind control, etc.

About names: Might be a pet peeve here, but I hate the "X of Y" naming convention that WW started midway through the line. Daughters of Cacaphony, Followers of Set, Serpents of Light, Harbringers of Skulls... WTF is a harbringer of a skull? So I like "The Necromantion" but not "Disciples of.." in front.

I'll take a look at your longer document. I think I skimmed it before, since I remember the Lolitas. But In general, you have too many good ideas-- you need to select the best, revise, and refine-- instead of going deeper. Focus on what will make each of these attractive to a player. For example, when I read the Magnus bloodline I think "Sorcerer who uses magic to feed, rather than fangs" and that sounds awesome. Same with the Strigoi.

Another approach could be to do a grid with columns for bloodline, orogin story, powers, and weakness. Not for players, but just to organize your thoughts.

A lot of secret societies have names like that. Temple of Set, Brotherhood of Saturn, Hermetic Order of the Blue Rose, etc. Although they usually make more sense than the word salad titles WW often came up with, yeah.

Sorry this might be a silly questions and may or may not have been discussed and I missed it.

Do the vampires remember their past?  Is the person still in there from before they were bit or did they die when they were bit and a monster took their place in the body?

Quote from: GhostNinja on May 03, 2023, 09:46:28 AM
Sorry this might be a silly questions and may or may not have been discussed and I missed it.

Do the vampires remember their past?  Is the person still in there from before they were bit or did they die when they were bit and a monster took their place in the body?

Good question!

That varies by setting. Most fiction I'm aware of has them remember their human life, even if their conscience is gone and a demon has taken up residence. In the Sonja Blue books vampires suffer brain damage that results in them having little memory of their former life, no conscience and limited intelligence. In the ABYSS ttrpg, vampires have no memory of their human life and any promises of immortality to prospective recruits are empty.

In most ttrpg settings the playable vampires having once been human is just a formality to justify the power fantasy, like isekai. They could have been born a vampire, or have no memory of their human lives, and it wouldn't make any meaningful change to these settings. I consider this a weakness of the writing. Most fiction that even has vampires not being ex-human in the first place is paranormal romance where the dynamics are akin to an interracial superhero romance. Christine Feehan's Dark Prince series being a prolific example.

In my settings I was gonna have it vary according to what themes I wanted to explore. Maybe offer players a choice of origins: "memories of human life," "forgot what it was like to be human," "no memories of humanity," "was never human," etc.