Inspired by the VTM thread and a post from our own BoxCrayonTales pointing to a write up he did : https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQ7Nye5r0Dhm8Cp7D81stTbAWsFrl1Gxg7dpmRo5DRNJAtDcyZL0FOwAfNid4-r2yVFSLgATKj4cs89/pub

So, there's a Bloodlines build, IMHO each line should have some unique power/weakness, also in the write up there's no mechanical info, so let's try and do that for the OSR.

Powers:
    Animal Control – bats, wolves, rats, etc.
    Charm –
    Climb walls like a spider –
    Control of the elements  – Wind, rain and other natural phenomena.
    Create darkness –
    Curse –
    Flight – Fly without any outside influence.
    Fog people's minds (improved implant a whole set of memories) –
    Immortal – The power to never age and recover from almost any injury.
    Intangibility –
    Invisibility –
    Magic –
    Misting – Turning into mist
    Paralyze –
    Read memories of it's victims –
    Shapeshifting – taking on the appearance of other people or changing into a bat.
    Telekinesis – Manipulate objects/matter with the mind.
    Telepathy – Vampires can sometimes read/sense another person's thoughts, communicate with them mentally and/or influence their minds/thoughts.
    Unnatural Healing – To heal rapidly from any physical injury.
    Unnatural Senses – Vampires have uncanny senses.  They better sight, smell, hearing, taste, and sense of touch.
    Unnatural Speed – Vampires can move at faster than the human eye.
    Unnatural Strength – The power to exert great strength.
    Vision – Night/Heat or Blood flow

I think one thing worth noting in devising vampires is that Dracula was a literal wizard in the novel; having learned black magic at the hidden school Scholomance, supposedly from Satan himself (the poser Caine only learned from the lesser demoness Lilith).

It's worth noting because, in an urban fantasy RPG, a LOT of Dracula's "traditional vampire powers" are actually black magic from his ton of levels in wizard.

That also means he's NOT a typical vampire so the first thing you need to decide is which of his powers you want to also be available to black magic users in your setting and whatever is left should be the template for your average vampire.

Now it could be that the vampiric state makes them all natural conduits for black magic (basically making wizard a "favored class" for vampires) and blood sacrifice a natural source of mana, but that would still make learning to use the magic a part of their development and lead to different "types" of vampire simply by spell selection.

ETA: if it were me, I'd give the base vampire template the raw physical abilities; strength, speed, sharp senses, unnatural resilience/healing; and leave the rest to magic they have natural affinities for.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.

I've scoured rpgs and prose fiction for ideas. There's a lot you can do with vampires. More than I can list. I've been keeping a brainstorming doc where I collect ideas and I have a lot.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRXShVnJvKRhqFBMhqtBGA2j_AYDVKGXPqAsenH26MGPGdrY8phdsGEfsTtJklKT4ZUabvqZ3w5x7xU/pub

Almost all of these were inspired by some book or movie, but as you can see there's a bunch. I have more than I know what to do with.

Even using just Dracula as a basis and not going into other stuff, there's a bunch of ways you could flesh them out.

There's the hammer horror/comic book stereotype: http://www.laughingsage.com/macabrefiles/Fpg_fiendguide.htm

The Linea Dracula from Night's Black Agents. Dracula made a pact with the Devil to become a vampire, which was inherited by his biological descendants. These vampires are a biological bloodline who reproduce in the typical sexual fashion, but they can turn ordinary people into their vampiric brides/grooms or mostly-human renfields. A scion of the Linea Dracula cannot be cured, but if you kill one then all their brides/grooms become human again.

The Wamphyri from Necroscope. These vampires have been infected with a fungal parasite that hungers for blood and grants superpowers. You can get an overview here: https://www.themandragora.com/necroscope/

In the French ttrpg Nephilim, vampire myths were inspired by immortals known as Selenim. Lucy Westenra was a real person who inspired Bram Stoker to write his book. She was originally an ordinary woman who, after a terrible nightmare, woke up as an emotional vampire. This gave her the ability to learn and cast black magic, including necromancy, conjuration (summoning nightmare monsters via music), and anamorphosis (painting a nightmarish self-portrait that gives you fixed shapeshifting powers).

Good thread.

So I am currently designing a Vampire game that is set in modern times.   

Being a vampire doesn't come with prestige.  No Sparkly vampires.  Real Vampires.

You and your nest are trying to survive.   Making the right choices so your nest can grow and survive, if you make the wrong choice and kill the wrong person bad things will happen.

It's a game of survival.

I like the concept of Vampire the Masquerade but I hated how it was put together.   Being bit by a vampire doesn't make you horny, it's scary and if you are a victim in the grasp of a vampire your life is in danger.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 21, 2023, 10:30:05 AM
I like the concept of Vampire the Masquerade but I hated how it was put together.   Being bit by a vampire doesn't make you horny, it's scary and if you are a victim in the grasp of a vampire your life is in danger.

In the indie ttrpg Blood, a vampire's bite causes paralysis and short term memory loss but the exact sensation felt depends on the environment and current feelings: alone in a scary alley the victim experiences terror, while in a hedonistic nightclub the victim experiences ecstasy.

Personally, I find "all the legends are true" to be the death knell of any memorable fantasy creature. The more specific, the more memorable it often seems.

Despite the noisy "down with all things Biblical" fans attempts to make it a debunked myth in VtM, the extremely specific Curse of Cain myth made its vampires feel extremely distinctive from random bloodsuckers. Being able to use epithets like "The First Murderer" and "The Third Mortal" is evocative.

So too things like "Spawn of Lilith" or "Children of Set."

While it doesn't evoke big mythological names, the concept of "all buried in unhallowed ground" or similar connections to improper rites associated with death leading to the rise of a restless dead who feeds on the living to sustain itself has a sort of folklore truth to it "honor the death rites or a monster will rise and punish the community for it."

I'm honestly kinda partial to the old WoD Kuei-Jin origin of damned souls who escaped Hell back into their bodies and will do ANYTHING to keep from being dragged back, including feeding on the innocent.

The point is... all of those unique takes on vampires lose impact if they're ALL true in the same setting. Fantasy Kitchen Sinks are generally derided, but for some reason Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sinks get a pass, probably for some modernist reason of preference for a lack of absolute truth.

Pick one, maybe two if they don't contradict, things and run with all those implications for a given setting. If you're making some generic vampire setting then make sure to point out that many of the options should be mutually exclusive for a given campaign.

And similarly, if you have other things that go bump in the night, try to not have their creation myths overtly contradict each other (see WoD Vampire, Werewolf and Mage whose cosmologies are fundamentally incompatible).

The Vampire Diaries deserves a lot of crap, but at least its mages/witches, vampires and werewolves all derived from non-contradictory origins (and consistent magic rules such as; "there's always a loophole/weakness to magic," "powerful magic must be bound to something that sustains it (and often becomes it's weakness)" and "blood is life so consuming it is required for immortality").

Like, Dracula as a foundation could work for a broader supernatural context because it's got Vlad becoming Dracula by means of infernal magic. His immortality comes from a satanic pact sealed by his need to feed on the living. His ability to infect others is akin to a perversion of the concept of Original Sin... he spreads his original sin to others.

And this origin also includes broader elements of a supernatural world. Infernal magic exists and can impart things like vampirism. Lycaon was supposedly cursed by the storm god Zeus (oft associated with the Mesopotamian god Baal) with the form of a wolf for his cannibalism, but other interpretations call it a blessing.

Baal-Zeus makes a werewolf who hunts at night, feeds on the flesh and blood of man, and passes its curse with a bite. Satan makes Dracula a vampire who hunts at night (and merely loses his powers in daylight), feeds on the blood of the living and passes on his curse with a bite. Magic A is Magic A if you wanted to use that as the foundation of a setting.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
Personally, I find "all the legends are true" to be the death knell of any memorable fantasy creature. The more specific, the more memorable it often seems.

Despite the noisy "down with all things Biblical" fans attempts to make it a debunked myth in VtM, the extremely specific Curse of Cain myth made its vampires feel extremely distinctive from random bloodsuckers. Being able to use epithets like "The First Murderer" and "The Third Mortal" is evocative.

So too things like "Spawn of Lilith" or "Children of Set."

While it doesn't evoke big mythological names, the concept of "all buried in unhallowed ground" or similar connections to improper rites associated with death leading to the rise of a restless dead who feeds on the living to sustain itself has a sort of folklore truth to it "honor the death rites or a monster will rise and punish the community for it."

I'm honestly kinda partial to the old WoD Kuei-Jin origin of damned souls who escaped Hell back into their bodies and will do ANYTHING to keep from being dragged back, including feeding on the innocent.

The point is... all of those unique takes on vampires lose impact if they're ALL true in the same setting. Fantasy Kitchen Sinks are generally derided, but for some reason Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sinks get a pass, probably for some modernist reason of preference for a lack of absolute truth.

Pick one, maybe two if they don't contradict, things and run with all those implications for a given setting. If you're making some generic vampire setting then make sure to point out that many of the options should be mutually exclusive for a given campaign.

And similarly, if you have other things that go bump in the night, try to not have their creation myths overtly contradict each other (see WoD Vampire, Werewolf and Mage whose cosmologies are fundamentally incompatible).

The Vampire Diaries deserves a lot of crap, but at least its mages/witches, vampires and werewolves all derived from non-contradictory origins (and consistent magic rules such as; "there's always a loophole/weakness to magic," "powerful magic must be bound to something that sustains it (and often becomes it's weakness)" and "blood is life so consuming it is required for immortality").

Like, Dracula as a foundation could work for a broader supernatural context because it's got Vlad becoming Dracula by means of infernal magic. His immortality comes from a satanic pact sealed by his need to feed on the living. His ability to infect others is akin to a perversion of the concept of Original Sin... he spreads his original sin to others.

And this origin also includes broader elements of a supernatural world. Infernal magic exists and can impart things like vampirism. Lycaon was supposedly cursed by the storm god Zeus (oft associated with the Mesopotamian god Baal) with the form of a wolf for his cannibalism, but other interpretations call it a blessing.

Baal-Zeus makes a werewolf who hunts at night, feeds on the flesh and blood of man, and passes its curse with a bite. Satan makes Dracula a vampire who hunts at night (and merely loses his powers in daylight), feeds on the blood of the living and passes on his curse with a bite. Magic A is Magic A if you wanted to use that as the foundation of a setting.

That's fair. On the other hand, this is how all urban fantasy ttrpgs have already done things so far.

In Nightlife, there's one type of vampire, werewolf, demon, etc. They all follow standardized templates. There are a handful of variants but they're minor. The most customization you get is deciding in what order you learn your powers, or picking your animal aspect for werebeasts beyond werewolves.

In WitchCraft, there's one type of vampire, werewolf, etc. They all follow standardized templates. Again, the most customization you get is picking the order you learn your powers, your animal aspect, or whether your vampire was raised by another vampire or rose from the dead under their own power.

In Everlasting, Vampire: Alone in the Darkness, Vampire: Undeath, and other VTM heartbreakers, the vampires all follow the same template aside from your choice of tribe. Your choice of tribe determines what superpowers your character is talented in and a handful of additional weaknesses. Even if the tribes have separate origins, they still use the same template and never diverge from it.

Even in hunter settings like Chill, vampires of different strains still follow >90% of the same rules.

I can see the appeal of using a single template for everything. My personal preference is for all magical stuff to have been inspired by a single magical race rather than a half-dozen or so as is usually the case. This is one of the reasons I like settings like Nephilim or Invisible War.

For different inspirations, I'd recommend a book of vampires for the Chill RPG, which details a dozen or so vampires from different traditions around the world. I particularly liked Elizabeth Bathory as a vampire, the Greek Santorini vampires, and the rock star vampire (connected to selling his soul at a crossroads).

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2900/Vampires

I'd also suggest GURPS Blood Types, which has a detailed discussion of a variety of vampire lore.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Bloodtypes/

I do think that one should pick a style/tradition rather than trying to encompass them all.

So I have a fresh idea for a Vampire game, it's a little out there, but stay with me.

OK, so there's a clan of Vampires, but rather than setting it in Transylvania, I've contemporized by moving them to the Pacific North West. Now what's interesting about Vampires? They don't age. So as cover, this clan pretends to be High School kids, and after graduation they move schools, so they've graduated dozens of times!

Now in the novel Dracula, sunlight doesn't hurt the vampire. I did still want it to be a limitation though, so instead of burning from the sunlight, there's some kind of optical effect that reveals them as supernatural, so they still avoid strong sunlight. We need a tragic romance element, so I was thinking, what if a mortal, ACTUAL teen fell in love with an ancient vampire who just LOOKED like a teen?

Anyway, I'm open to constructive criticism, but I put a lot of my heart and soul in to this concept, so please be gentle! Oh, and don't steal my idea!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2023, 10:48:34 AM
In the indie ttrpg Blood, a vampire's bite causes paralysis and short term memory loss but the exact sensation felt depends on the environment and current feelings: alone in a scary alley the victim experiences terror, while in a hedonistic nightclub the victim experiences ecstasy.

Those are good ideas.  I may use them. 

I know that there are other games out there but looking at the ones that were listed they were very small, short games.  I want to create something really fleshed out that can be played for awhile with possible random encounters, seed ideas, etc.

I am looking to create something really fleshed out.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 07:31:10 AM
I think one thing worth noting in devising vampires is that Dracula was a literal wizard in the novel; having learned black magic at the hidden school Scholomance, supposedly from Satan himself (the poser Caine only learned from the lesser demoness Lilith).

It's worth noting because, in an urban fantasy RPG, a LOT of Dracula's "traditional vampire powers" are actually black magic from his ton of levels in wizard.

That also means he's NOT a typical vampire so the first thing you need to decide is which of his powers you want to also be available to black magic users in your setting and whatever is left should be the template for your average vampire.

Now it could be that the vampiric state makes them all natural conduits for black magic (basically making wizard a "favored class" for vampires) and blood sacrifice a natural source of mana, but that would still make learning to use the magic a part of their development and lead to different "types" of vampire simply by spell selection.

ETA: if it were me, I'd give the base vampire template the raw physical abilities; strength, speed, sharp senses, unnatural resilience/healing; and leave the rest to magic they have natural affinities for.

The idea is to brainstorm ALL the powers (and then weaknesses, and so on) a Vampire can have.

Then, using BoxCrayonTales' write up, divide those between universal and bloodline specific. So you choose your bloodline and it makes your Vampire different from mine or from the one you played last year.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
And similarly, if you have other things that go bump in the night, try to not have their creation myths overtly contradict each other (see WoD Vampire, Werewolf and Mage whose cosmologies are fundamentally incompatible).

I disagree with this advice, simply because I like the mystery that having these contradictory accounts creates. Reality is messy, and historical accounts are always filled with half-truth and propaganda.

The reality of the cosmology and primordial history should be more-or-less impossible to know for any human-equivalent character, so this stuff just provides framework for character motivations.

Incompatible story material in sourcebooks is the story equivalent of letting your players have access to every splatbook and then complaining that they discovered some weird gamebreaking build.

Quote from: Zelen on April 21, 2023, 12:35:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
And similarly, if you have other things that go bump in the night, try to not have their creation myths overtly contradict each other (see WoD Vampire, Werewolf and Mage whose cosmologies are fundamentally incompatible).

I disagree with this advice, simply because I like the mystery that having these contradictory accounts creates. Reality is messy, and historical accounts are always filled with half-truth and propaganda.

Reality IS messy. That's why people prefer stories... things have to make sense there.

I don't mean that the origins have to be widely known, merely that, at whatever level of unknown you set "the truth" the elements at the level of "the truth" shouldn't contradict themselves or people will find it unsatisfying.

Real Life dangles, fiction shouldn't.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 01:14:16 PM

Quote from: Zelen on April 21, 2023, 12:35:13 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
And similarly, if you have other things that go bump in the night, try to not have their creation myths overtly contradict each other (see WoD Vampire, Werewolf and Mage whose cosmologies are fundamentally incompatible).

I disagree with this advice, simply because I like the mystery that having these contradictory accounts creates. Reality is messy, and historical accounts are always filled with half-truth and propaganda.

Reality IS messy. That's why people prefer stories... things have to make sense there.

I don't mean that the origins have to be widely known, merely that, at whatever level of unknown you set "the truth" the elements at the level of "the truth" shouldn't contradict themselves or people will find it unsatisfying.

Real Life dangles, fiction shouldn't.

It's Mythology and legend within that fiction though, it is in fact OK to be murky, perhaps even contradictory. People do actually have different tastes.