QuoteIts not the pathetic sad powergaming of fiddling with little numbers to optimize your "character build".

:confused:...So, what do you think about High Guard Ship construction rules?

Or G³ ?
Or FF&S?

Heaven forfend that people try to squeeze the maximum number of advantages they can from the system when creating and maintaining a character.

I'm reminded of the second series of Rome, when Octavian foreshortens his swordplay lessons with Titus Pullo. When Pullo questions his decision to stop training O replies with words to the effect of "At best I'll be an average swordsman. The cemetaries are full of average swordsman. Better to be the best, or not at all."

This is pretty much how I see the adventurers mentality. Anyone who regularly gets in to lethal encounters is likely to be doing every damn thing they can to make sure that they are the ones who win. Anything else would be like slow suicide. Optimisation is just a systemic represenatation of a person focussing on their strengths to stay alive. It has nothing to do with fidelity to character concept, which is a mutable thing that can easily be adapted to any kind of build.

Well, Pundy's from the humanities, right? They'll never understand our obsession with small numbers

I mean, fuck, I know he can´t be bothered with actually putting effort into his tactical combats, but if he wants to stay the "Champion of the Mainstream", he better change his stance, that would be fitting for all those lazy -ology students at the Forgery!

Quote from: mearlsI don't think CR gave players a sense that the DM should only throw encounters of a certain strength at them. I think CR gave them the vocabulary needed to say, "This encounter is unfair."

Which is all well and good. But fair is boring. Nobody ever says, "Yeah, in my last group, we had this epic fight. We all remember it in detail and have fun discussing it to this very day. What made it so great was that it was totally fair."

Seanchai

"We so pwned that critter we were supposed to pwn!
:cool:

Quote from: Settembrini"We so pwned that critter we were supposed to pwn!
:cool:

Yeah, but surely you can get that its much cooler to be able to Pwn the critter that you weren't supposed to be good enough to Pwn, right?

RPGPundit

PS: EVEN if half of you die in the Pwning...

I was being sarcastic.
As mentioned upthread, winning a combat I was supposed to win is nothing that floats my boat. It´s neccessary to do this, but it isn´t exactly fun.

Hm, I have a slight tangent that might merit its own thread.

Basically I think it's rewarding to accomplish something you were supposed to accomplish, provided you actually had to put some effort into it. And also, if you decided to take on the task.

Being presented with a series of gimmes doesn't meet these criteria, but the RPG equivalent of experience-farming might.

I'm probably the wrong person to respond to that, Eliot, as that aspect of CRPGs has always been beyond me (as does running, swimming, knitting etc -- seems I fail at producing the necessary endorphins fast enough).
In a tabletop setting, it's rather unlikely that this kind of engagement is satisfying to _all_ the participants. While some enjoy that kind of trudging through the inevitable, others would be bored beyond comprehension.

Therefore there has to be a challenge. Which I don't quite equate with risk. Gimli/Legolas bodycounting might come to mind.

Right...I suppose I'm trying to emphasize that "risk" isn't necessary for challenge. Although perhaps you could say that a job is challenging, even if you're sure you can do it, provided you're not sure exactly what you have to do or how long it'll take you.

XP farming (as I understand it; I've only done roughly similar stuff in some games like Armored Core, no MMORPGs for me) can be drudgery, but the fun part of it is that you can say, "Here, I've identified this goal, this thing I want to change about the game, and I've found a way to do it--now I just need to do that." As long as the purely mechanical process isn't too long, exercises your skills somewhat, and has some degree of inherent fun & interest, slogging your way to a goal can be pleasurable, I think, especially if it's a goal of your own invention, and your own plan.

Two hypothetical scenarios:

1) You say you want to defeat Fafnir, the dragon. You know the DM will give you maybe four sessions of party-appropriate encounters, and then you can fight Fafnir, who's also scaled appropriately. Boring!

2) You say you want to defeat Fafnir, the dragon. By whatever means (lore rolls?) the DM looks at his map & notes which are already written up, tells you approximately what to expect--in terms that if you wanted, you could translate into CRs. Then you look at your party, decide you can do it, and head off on your expedition. Interesting! Because even if you don't think there's much risk, you know the world isn't being tailored to, instead you're using your own knowledge and effort to take on the world.