Quote from: RPGPundit;1003221if you run something like Death Frost Doom with the assumption that it is D&D and it is a D&D dungeon then the very things that PCs are SUPPOSED to do in standard D&D dungeons are what fucks them over in DFD

Yep! While I like DFD (especially the overall vibe of it at any rate). I've criticized it in the past for being a killer Dungeon (or a negadungein as the term is called here). I mean, just by picking up and examining a few things gives you an automatic % chance to die and that occurs a few times. IMO it's been purposly stacked as to kill off most (or all) of the players and that's even beofre they have to fight the big bads. If I was to run DFD. I'd have to strip the shit out of it so I felt the players would have a fair chance at getting through it.

Just my two cents...

All I'm hearing here is folks complaining that the dungeon is too hard.  "Oh no," they whimper, "I can't run this for my players, their widdle feelings will get hurt when they die."

And yet we've got playtester reports from Raggi and another gentleman's experience that no, the adventure isn't too hard, their players did fine.

Grow a pair folks.  Either run the module or get off the fucking pot.  I don't come to this site to listen to folks complain that the GAME is too FUCKING HARD.

Here is an entry from DfD to illustrate what people are talking about it being a death trap.

QuoteJust north of the altar is an organ made out of bones. The keys are human finger bones, and the pipes are made of giants' thighbones. The organ has been clogged with dust and deadly yellow mold. Playing the organ will cause the spores to shoot out the pipes and all over the room (50% chance) or just over a 10' area around the organ (50% chance), and everyone in the area of effect must save versus poison or die. Doing this will also dislodge an onyx bowl worth 1300 gold and a sapphire worth 250 gold from the inner workings of the organ.

While a fuck you save or die trap, any party member who just amble up and start playing without thoroughly checking out what it is obvious a creepy organ is an idiot in most D&D campaigns. I wouldn't expect to contain yellow mold that expelled when you played it. But I would expect some kind of nasty curse/mechanism/magic that would result in a save or die situation or the equivalent. Especially given how the locale is painted prior to this.

Quote from: jcfiala;1003238Grow a pair folks.  Either run the module or get off the fucking pot.  I don't come to this site to listen to folks complain that the GAME is too FUCKING HARD.

Actually, thanks for that post! It now makes me want to complain about DFD even more...

Quote from: The Exploited.;1003248Actually, thanks for that post! It now makes me want to complain about DFD even more...

Yes, share your feelings with us darling, we love it when you get 'real' with us.

Quote from: estar;1003245While a fuck you save or die trap, any party member who just amble up and start playing without thoroughly checking out what it is obvious a creepy organ is an idiot in most D&D campaigns.

Yes, either Pundit plays with such idiots or he's just being dense. The same guy that runs up an plays that organ without examining it is going to get himself and/or others killed in most any decent 'dungeon' adventure I can think of.
We have a guy like that in our DCC group, and while he's is a source of amusement he is also on his tenth character and has caused the rest of the PCs some serious difficulties at times.

In DFD there's a whole lot of stuff to see before you get to that creepy organ, and just about ALL of it serves as a signpost that warns you how ominous/creepy/dangerous the place is. There is stuff earlier on that you can mess with without instant death (the stuff in the shack, like the clock) but that still ougtta give you the idea to not just randomly go messing with things... that this stuff was all put in place by bad people doing bad things. Proceed with caution, don't lick things, don't stick your dick in the keyholes.
But, with just a bit of examination and thought the situation with that organ WILL be apparent and then its up to the Players to find some sort of solution.

Quote from: Simlasa;1003257In DFD there's a whole lot of stuff to see before you get to that creepy organ, and just about ALL of it serves as a signpost that warns you how ominous/creepy/dangerous the place is. There is stuff earlier on that you can mess with without instant death (the stuff in the shack, like the clock) but that still ougtta give you the idea to not just randomly go messing with things... that this stuff was all put in place by bad people doing bad things. Proceed with caution, don't lick things, don't stick your dick in the keyholes.
But, with just a bit of examination and thought the situation with that organ WILL be apparent and then its up to the Players to find some sort of solution.

Yes, don't go around fondling strange people's organs, it's dangerous.

Quote from: jcfiala;1003254Yes, share your feelings with us darling, we love it when you get 'real' with us.

I sure will cupcake.

Quote from: Simlasa;1003257WILL be apparent and then its up to the Players to find some sort of solution.

Especially that bit about opening the door without doing X. I don't want to give away spoilers. But it's not the most intuitive IMO.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1003263Especially that bit about opening the door without doing X. I don't want to give away spoilers. But it's not the most intuitive IMO.

When I've played it people were pretty quick to figure out what it was asking for, yep.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1003221Now, I get a lot of what you're saying above, but the fact is that it is still so close to D&D that if you run something like Death Frost Doom with the assumption that it is D&D and it is a D&D dungeon then the very things that PCs are SUPPOSED to do in standard D&D dungeons are what fucks them over in DFD.  You yourself admit that, Kubasik, in your post above, in a roundabout way.

I didn't do anything in a roundabout way. In fact, I was straightforward and clear all the way down the line.

You keep going on about these things PCs are "supposed" -- but have not named them.

If you want to make a list of "the very things that PCs are SUPPOSED to do in standard D&D dungeons are what fucks them over in DFD" I'd love to see it.

I anticipate that list is going to be narrowly limited to your very subjective assumptions, so it probably flip my mind. But maybe it will! At the least I'm curious to hear what you consider these "very things".

Quote from: The Exploited.;1003261I sure will cupcake.

Hey, whatever you want to say, I'm not the one being triggered by a dungeon.

Quote from: jcfiala;1003274Hey, whatever you want to say, I'm not the one being triggered by a dungeon.

I'm so terribly triggered at the moment...

Quote from: jcfiala;1003238Grow a pair folks.  Either run the module or get off the fucking pot.  I don't come to this site to listen to folks complain that the GAME is too FUCKING HARD.

Nerd macho...the most pathetic kind of machoism ever?

Quote from: Voros;1003353Nerd macho...the most pathetic kind of machoism ever?

Ah, but which is more pathetic, the nerd macho, or the man who protests that he's better than that by posting on a fantasy elves site?