Quote from: blackstone on December 13, 2022, 05:24:20 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on December 13, 2022, 02:32:18 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on December 13, 2022, 02:22:45 PM
More than the layout, he's reconsidering even releasing a second edition due to all the negative feedback so far.  But it sounds like he might even get more radical and lean into the B/X/AD&D mashup aspect, adding more new content and ceding the retroclone space to other games, which I think would be a good idea.  We have tons of B/X clones already; far fewer 1e clones.  OSE adds AD&D material but B/Xifies it.  Something that leaned more the other way, using AD&D hit dice, more spells, etc., might be an interesting alternative.  It would certainly emulate the way we played for much of the 80s.

That would be a great idea! Something I've been trying to do for a while (with lots of house rules etc.). I'd love to see a simplified AD&D.

Totally agree. I think that might be a step in the right direction too.

Hmmm, I just went back to the Facebook page too and it seems that Dan deleted some of the comments he made a couple days ago concerning abandoning the project entirely.  He was apparently pretty bothered by the negativity regarding presentation but the support from people on that Facebook has changed his mind, I presume.  There were two different places where he referenced this, but I can't find either now, unless they're buried in other threads.  He talked about meeting his production goals already (in the past?) and wishing he could release it anonymously since it seems some people just don't like him and they're predisposed towards negativity.  I'm not familiar with any of this backstory so I won't comment on that.

Believe me, I was one of the folks trying to talk him into not abandoning the second edition, especially if there's going to be new content along the lines I referenced.  There's a niche waiting to be filled.

It's a pity he switched from his own forums to social media, the tone of critique is very different and not nearly as civilised. I'm not surprised if he was discouraged (IIRC the same thing happened when he posted the first conceptual AI art cover), glad he's sticking with it for now. I have both LL (the combined hardcover) and OSE (box plus tome plus the advanced stuff), and I suspect many people interested in one will tend to buy the other as well. They are quite different, perhaps in feel more than in the rules.

Quote from: Persimmon on December 13, 2022, 05:38:04 PM

Quote from: blackstone on December 13, 2022, 05:24:20 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on December 13, 2022, 02:32:18 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on December 13, 2022, 02:22:45 PM
More than the layout, he's reconsidering even releasing a second edition due to all the negative feedback so far.  But it sounds like he might even get more radical and lean into the B/X/AD&D mashup aspect, adding more new content and ceding the retroclone space to other games, which I think would be a good idea.  We have tons of B/X clones already; far fewer 1e clones.  OSE adds AD&D material but B/Xifies it.  Something that leaned more the other way, using AD&D hit dice, more spells, etc., might be an interesting alternative.  It would certainly emulate the way we played for much of the 80s.

That would be a great idea! Something I've been trying to do for a while (with lots of house rules etc.). I'd love to see a simplified AD&D.

Totally agree. I think that might be a step in the right direction too.

Hmmm, I just went back to the Facebook page too and it seems that Dan deleted some of the comments he made a couple days ago concerning abandoning the project entirely.  He was apparently pretty bothered by the negativity regarding presentation but the support from people on that Facebook has changed his mind, I presume.  There were two different places where he referenced this, but I can't find either now, unless they're buried in other threads.  He talked about meeting his production goals already (in the past?) and wishing he could release it anonymously since it seems some people just don't like him and they're predisposed towards negativity.  I'm not familiar with any of this backstory so I won't comment on that.

Believe me, I was one of the folks trying to talk him into not abandoning the second edition, especially if there's going to be new content along the lines I referenced.  There's a niche waiting to be filled.

It's weird how there are people in the world where they feel like they have to drag everyone else down around them. I'm happy he made the decision to stay the course. Hell, I threw my hat in the ring and asked if he could use any help proofreading, playtesting, etc. I want him to be successful. Successful in a way that LL remains a choice in the OSR.

With everything going on with the latest version of D&D being in playtest, we need choices. Gygax and Arneson, if they were alive today, would be shaking their heads in sadness because of what their game has become. D&D being a "life style" brand. I mean, don't get me wrong, TSR did try to go down the "diversify the brand name" route in the early 80s, and that lead to the financial disasters of the late 80s and 90s. It was a bad business choice.

and now they're going to try it again? What makes them think they'll be successful this time? This is what happens when you have a group of idiots think they're the smartest guys in the room.

anywho...

I hope to see LL (and Adv LL) 2nd edition. The more diverse the market is the better.

Finally found Dan's response on Facebook:

"These are great comments everyone, but I don't think so far they bring me to a decision. Still pretty split. I hesitate a little to say this but no new edition is also on the table. Just to be honest. I'm finding a much more negative environment IMO today than a few years back. There are many reasons for that I figure, but one is that there are a lot of people who would prefer I just disappear. I almost feel like if I could change my identity to do away with both expectations and prejudice I'd be better off, but that isn't realistic.
I'm proud of the fact that I achieved my production goals, but maybe it truly is time to pack it up."

Luckily, it seems that he has walked back on this sentiment.

Quote from: Persimmon on December 14, 2022, 09:33:45 AM
Finally found Dan's response on Facebook:

"These are great comments everyone, but I don't think so far they bring me to a decision. Still pretty split. I hesitate a little to say this but no new edition is also on the table. Just to be honest. I'm finding a much more negative environment IMO today than a few years back. There are many reasons for that I figure, but one is that there are a lot of people who would prefer I just disappear. I almost feel like if I could change my identity to do away with both expectations and prejudice I'd be better off, but that isn't realistic.
I'm proud of the fact that I achieved my production goals, but maybe it truly is time to pack it up."

Luckily, it seems that he has walked back on this sentiment.

My objections are to the presentation, not the fact that there's a second edition.  I love the original and own it on print.  I especially love the AEC.  I was all on board for a second edition and considered my money already spent for it when I first heard about it, but if it's going to have horrid art I don't see why I should spend the money.  I think Dan was overreacting here and being a little unfair to those of us who wish him well and would welcome a new edition that improves on what we loved about the first edition.  I presume he released that preview so that he could get comments on it.  Well, he got them.  I don't owe him my money for a downgrade of something I already bought from him once.  Whether this new edition ends up being to my personal taste or not, I wish him success with it.

Do it, or don't do it. No need at all for this "will-I won't-I" teasing bullshit.

Quote from: I on December 14, 2022, 10:07:16 AMMy objections are to the presentation, not the fact that there's a second edition.  I love the original and own it on print.  I especially love the AEC.  I was all on board for a second edition and considered my money already spent for it when I first heard about it, but if it's going to have horrid art I don't see why I should spend the money.  I think Dan was overreacting here and being a little unfair to those of us who wish him well and would welcome a new edition that improves on what we loved about the first edition.  I presume he released that preview so that he could get comments on it.  Well, he got them.  I don't owe him my money for a downgrade of something I already bought from him once.  Whether this new edition ends up being to my personal taste or not, I wish him success with it.

The presentation is total ass...when I heard the new edition was coming out, I contacted him directly about doing some character generation software and other utilities. I think Advanced LL is the best retroclone by far, and an update with better layout/art and resources similar to something like OSE would be awesome. But this...this is bad. Cartoony nonsense, horrid border/colors...I just do not understand what he was trying to do.

I hope LL2 does happen.  He can redo the layout and make it better then everyone is happy.

I am trying to switch from 5e and this has been the best option yet, with Pathfinder 2 in second place.

I wonder how Goblinoid Games statement on politics is going to play out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993232931066659/permalink/2066329003757051/

Quote from: rkhigdon on January 02, 2023, 12:24:37 PM
I wonder how Goblinoid Games statement on politics is going to play out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993232931066659/permalink/2066329003757051/

In the past I would have responded to his post, but now I just don't give a fuck. If you say ANYTHING about how you disagree in the slightest way, the Marxists will come out of the woodwork to destroy you. So what's the point? The sycophants can enjoy their circlejerk and now I have another good reason not to purchase the new edition.

Quote from: Brad on January 02, 2023, 12:29:40 PM

Quote from: rkhigdon on January 02, 2023, 12:24:37 PM
I wonder how Goblinoid Games statement on politics is going to play out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993232931066659/permalink/2066329003757051/

In the past I would have responded to his post, but now I just don't give a fuck. If you say ANYTHING about how you disagree in the slightest way, the Marxists will come out of the woodwork to destroy you. So what's the point? The sycophants can enjoy their circlejerk and now I have another good reason not to purchase the new edition.

Yeah, unfortunately it's another one of those "politics don't matter except for the politics we don't like which are exclusionary hate speech" statements. 

Quote from: rkhigdon on January 02, 2023, 12:24:37 PM
I wonder how Goblinoid Games statement on politics is going to play out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993232931066659/permalink/2066329003757051/

I know how it's going to play out with me:  this fucker won't be getting one more dime from my wallet.

Quote from: I on January 02, 2023, 02:25:27 PM
I know how it's going to play out with me:  this fucker won't be getting one more dime from my wallet.

Seconded.

Quote from: rkhigdon on January 02, 2023, 12:24:37 PM
I wonder how Goblinoid Games statement on politics is going to play out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993232931066659/permalink/2066329003757051/

and then Dan goes on to say how he will be sanitizing the next version of LL (getting rid of "offensive" magical items like the girdle of masculinity, etc.)

what a tool this guy turned out to be

Isn't he a college professor? You resemble the company you keep...