Quote from: The Butcher;387739I am not looking for pretentious emulation of history of genre fiction, just some fun with an East Asian flavor.

In that case you might want to stay clear of Qin as the game as quite an extensive and very well researched/put together history part and if you are not looking for at least semi-historic emulation then you are throwing out a huge junk of the book.

QuoteI am not looking for pretentious emulation of history of genre fiction, just some fun with an East Asian flavor.

Sorry, just saw this now. Forget about Blood & Honor too, as it has a understructure of fiction emulation tied to it (clan creation, Honor pool, etc.).

Quote from: Saphim;388144In that case you might want to stay clear of Qin as the game as quite an extensive and very well researched/put together history part and if you are not looking for at least semi-historic emulation then you are throwing out a huge junk of the book.

Quote from: silva;388151Sorry, just saw this now. Forget about Blood & Honor too, as it has a understructure of fiction emulation tied to it (clan creation, Honor pool, etc.).

It's not a deal-breaker, either, unless the book expects or requires you to read extensively on the subject matter. "Semi-historic" is definitely within the bounds I've set for myself. What I don't want is players whining about how they can't have katanas because it's a Heian Period game, or whether King X ruled Y state in Z year of W Dynasty. Extra setting information is always a plus, as long as it's easily handwaved away.

Oriental Adventures would be an easy answer, but I am looking for a bit more tha "D&D in faux Japan". I kind of like the idea of mechanics like Honor and Glory, enforcing a distinct "feel". Sounds like L5R and B&H have this covered. How about Qin?

My recommendation is Usagi Yojimbo, the Sanguine version. In my opinion it's the best chanbara RPG ever, it emulates perfectly the tropes of chanbara, like one-hero-against-many, worthy opponents, cool stunts, fighting schools, fighting with no armor etc. There is a thread about Usagi Yojimbo here.

Legend of the Five Rings resembles superficially Japanese culture with Chinese geography, but that's where the similarities end. Rokugan is not historical Japan nor China, it's not even chanbara, it's its own thing, very much like D&D. This point is very important, so I'll insist. If you're looking for chanbara tropes in L53, you'll be disappointed. Armor is too useful not to wear one, combats are too dangerous etc.

I don't like L5R, but maybe you will. If you insist in playing L5R, I recommend the 1st edition, 3rd edition suffers from rules overbloat, and the metaplot will make you want to gouge out your own eyes. And avoid 2nd edition like the plague, it has the worst version of the system.

I can't comment on Qin, I own a copy but I have yet to read it thoroughly.

Qin works with a relatively simple renown score that is used to determine how far word has spread about your exploits. It creates a distinct taoistic feel with the way its attributes work. They are named after taoist elements (still easily recognizable) and a character has to keep them in balance to make the most of ones magical potential.

Bushido all the way.

We've played a lot of L5R here.  I'll back up all the comments saying to use the first edition system, our GM for the game tried many others but eventually he always came back to the original at the urging of us players.

Personally I really enjoy the setting.  It has a lot of the 'cool stuff' from various ancient oriental cultures all mashed into one without locking you into a historical setting where they couldn't have been in the same place at the same time.  Yes it's deadly, but that keeps everyone from jumping into combat every time you turn around.  Helps push forward a little more roleplay in order to resolve some problems.

Qin we've never played.  Have no opinion to offer up there.

Quote from: The Butcher;387948System lethality is good for a chanbara emulator, though. My vague recollection is that it's a fairly gritty, bloody genre, though I could be mistaken.

Yes and no. In this chanbara is like the sword and sorcery genre; it's forgiving for the main hero, but very lethal for his enemies. In your typical chanbara or sword and sorcery story, the hero regularly kills many times his number, and survives.

This is another reason why I love Usagi Yojimbo. The combat system is very lethal in itself, but there are several Gifts that let your character avoid damage, so your character can have several fights and be unscathed whereas his enemies die like flies.

I would have to repeat what some have said here. If you want a generic fantasy setting inspired by japan (and a bit of china thrown in there, and a lot of western movies/novels allegedly about japan), then L5R is ok. But if you want to play in a fantasy version OF asia (specifically china), then Qin is your game.

And this distinction isn't only important if you want to get all historically sophisticate, its also important in the sense of how the two games will actually play out.  Even if you're playing it as a no-brainer kind of campaign which doesn't particularly care about "historical accuracy", its like the difference between Troy or 300 vs.  Xena:Warrior Princess. The former two, however full of historical inaccuracies, still have a vaguely historical feel which makes the whole thing feel more authentic, while the latter is clearly a bunch of made-up shit with modern sentiments and vague cultural window-dressing.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;388406Even if you're playing it as a no-brainer kind of campaign which doesn't particularly care about "historical accuracy", its like the difference between Troy or 300 vs.  Xena:Warrior Princess. The former two, however full of historical inaccuracies, still have a vaguely historical feel which makes the whole thing feel more authentic, while the latter is clearly a bunch of made-up shit with modern sentiments and vague cultural window-dressing.

Nice distinction.

Quote from: RPGPundit;388406while the latter is clearly a bunch of made-up shit with modern sentiments and vague cultural window-dressing.

RPGPundit

Just like almost every fantasy game on the market including every edition of D&D.  You speak like it's a bad thing but then it's what every one does.  Alderac just decided to use an oriental slant with it and was successful with a CCG, RPG and for a while even the Mini game sales were good.

Quote from: dekaranger;388458Just like almost every fantasy game on the market including every edition of D&D.  You speak like it's a bad thing but then it's what every one does.  Alderac just decided to use an oriental slant with it and was successful with a CCG, RPG and for a while even the Mini game sales were good.

Well, yes, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Its only a problem if someone mistakenly believes that L5R is somehow attempting to authentically emulate Japan; in the same sense that someone believes that D&D is authentically trying to emulate "medieval europe".

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;388532Well, yes, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Its only a problem if someone mistakenly believes that L5R is somehow attempting to authentically emulate Japan; in the same sense that someone believes that D&D is authentically trying to emulate "medieval europe".

I'll confess to initially falling prey to this misapprehension when I first bought L5R, which left me feeling rather put off for a while.  Eventually I came around to seeing is as an "Asian D&D" and set the system against the background of feudal Japan in much the same way someone might set D&D against the background of medieval England.  Unless one is being a real stickler for accuracy, the setting material for L5R is surprisingly easy to divorce from the mechanics.  Well, as long as you're going to a Japanese pastiche, and not, say, a Chinese one.

!i!

Certainly that's an important element of difference right there. Inasmuch as you can put L5R into an historical context, the basic settings of L5R and Qin are about 2000 years apart, and two completely different nations/society.  Asking about the relative qualities of each is like asking about the relative qualities of an ancient Greek RPG and a late Renaissance France RPG; in other words, if you aren't just lumping everything "asian" into the same boat, you wouldn't even be asking.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Ian Absentia;388695Unless one is being a real stickler for accuracy, the setting material for L5R is surprisingly easy to divorce from the mechanics.

The impressions I got from reading the corebook are just the opposite, that is, I felt it is very difficult to divorce the system from the setting. But if you did and had fun, what do I know? More power to you.