So. . . I'm thinking of running a FR camapign with Kill Puppies for Satan. For all of the hype about its satirical genius, I've found that its real genius is the fact that its a completely generic system designed to facilitate doing X thing (e.g., killing small animals) for Y form of authorial control (e.g., points of evil). There's no reason that, with a little tinkering, it wouldn't be a great engine for say. . . adventuring through Faerun, gacking orcs.

My Name Is: Blackleaf
I whack orcs for Elminster!
Tactical: 2
Righteous: 3
Homicidal: 3
Testicular: 4

Tactical is how analytical, calculating, and patient you are. Righteous is how self-absorbed and fanatical you are. Homicidal is how violent and murderous you are.Testicular is how gutsy and powerful you are.

You get the idea. . . so. . . what games have you used (or considered using) in a manner other than that in which they are presented?

So if whacking orcs is the x, what's the y?

I await actual play reports. I have a feeling this hack will expose the ultimate futility of kpfs even quicker than the default setting.

I kill orcs so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can *BLAM*THUD*

Quote from: droogI await actual play reports. I have a feeling this hack will expose the ultimate futility of kpfs even quicker than the default setting.

I kill orcs so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can get more y so I can get better at killing orcs, so I can *BLAM*THUD*

A popular reason for playing D&D in my experience.

Quote from: mythusmageA popular reason for playing D&D in my experience.

You naughty man....

I discovered, by way of a fan attempt at an RCC for it, that while I basically hate Rifts itself, it makes an unbelievably fantastic system for simulating Dragonball Z.  

Kicks that piece of shit Fusion game in the ass.

Wait, isn't the deal with KPfS that you kill the puppies as a kind of token gesture, to get the evil points for what you really want to do? In your example,the killing orcs IS what you mainly do, so it seems like it'd break down. Which I guess is probably what Droog's saying, actually.

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: apparition13So if whacking orcs is the x, what's the y?

Heroic badassitude via dramatic editing. Basically, you earn points of Badassitude for whacking orcs and can later cash these points in to do badass stuff (e.g., think wuxia badass). Basically, it works just like KPFS does mechanically -- it takes a stereotype (in this case, professional fantasy adventurers) and then cranks it up to ten. In other words, what I propose is basically bad, wrong, munchkiny, fun (or what many detractors accuse D&D of being, but what it falls tremendously short of in reality).

Quote from: MelinglorWait, isn't the deal with KPfS that you kill the puppies as a kind of token gesture, to get the evil points for what you really want to do? In your example,the killing orcs IS what you mainly do, so it seems like it'd break down.

In KPFS, killing puppies isn't a token gesture, but the basic action that drives the rest of the game (i.e, you must kill puppies to gain evil, which allows you to do other stuff that you couldn't normally do). Evil (and thus, killing puppies) is what sets the PCs apart from say. . . those folks whom Jesus wants for a sunbeam. But yeah, killing puppies isn't the sole focus of the game, nor would killing orcs be in the variant that I propose (much as it isn't in D&D).

i kill puppies to get evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, *BLAM*THUD*

Quote from: droogi kill puppies to get evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, so i can get better at killing puppies so i can get more evil, *BLAM*THUD*

Substitute "orcs" for "puppies" and "badass" for "evil" -- and you've pretty much got your classic dungeon crawl scenario

Quote from: jdrakehIn KPFS, killing puppies isn't a token gesture, but the basic action that drives the rest of the game (i.e, you must kill puppies to gain evil, which allows you to do other stuff that you couldn't normally do).

OK, so it's a necessary token gesture. My point was that the puppies arethe means, not the end. That makes the two feedback loops Droog describes fundamentally different: XYXYXYXYXYXYX vs XXXXXXXXXXXXX.

But it sounds like you've got that worked out.

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: jdrakehSubstitute "orcs" for "puppies" and "badass" for "evil" -- and you've pretty much got your classic dungeon crawl scenario

It sounds like the kind of game that gets boring rather fast, if you ask me.

Quote from: MelinglorOK, so it's a necessary token gesture. My point was that the puppies are the means, not the end. That makes the two feedback loops Droog describes fundamentally different: XYXYXYXYXYXYX vs XXXXXXXXXXXXX.

No, I think the feedback loop is pretty much the same. That's what makes kpfs satire. But don't let me put you off, James. I really do want to see some AP.

[EDIT TO ADD: The puppies are a means to an entirely meaningless end, which is the point. I think the difference will be that orcs aren't puppies, and the joke will get old a lot faster because it doesn't have the intrinsic gross-out factor.]

Quote from: jdrakehYou get the idea. . . so. . . what games have you used (or considered using) in a manner other than that in which they are presented?

Well, there was drawing all over Keep on the Borderlands maps like a boardgame. In fact, we pretty much played Basic D&D as a boardgame for a while. I was about 9 at the time.

About the same time and for a few years after that, we used D&D to help us play "nations" where basically each person's house was a "realm" and whatever we had - toys, models, you name it - comprised our cities and armies. Characters were created using D&D for various action figures and we used the stats as benchmarks. We also mapped out our kingdoms on hex paper and used wandering monster tables to populate the hexes, Probably the best stunt I pulled was using some old Atari 800 fantasy wargame to play out fights between my realm and the other kid's realms. They actually accepted the results as being what really happened.