Michael Pondsmith, the designer behind my favorite science-fiction RPG, just unveiled a Kickstarter for Mekton Zero, a new version of the Mekton RPG! Go here (http://kck.st/13NEGjt).
Man, between the Eclipse Phase: Transhuman Kickstarter and now this, my wallet is out for blood.
Mekton Z was a favorite for me to run and for my group. Consider me interested, but not yet committed.
It would help if Pondsmith explained what the hell he was thinking when he made Cyberpunk 3.0, just so we know he isn't insane.
Insanity or not, I am backing Mekton Zero. I loved the original games, Zeta was probably my favorite.
Quote from: CRKrueger;657065It would help if Pondsmith explained what the hell he was thinking when he made Cyberpunk 3.0, just so we know he isn't insane.
Here here. I was so disappointed in 3.0.
I am really, Really, REALLY torn on this.
In the video itself, there's a huge red flag. There's a statement that "unlike Mekton Zeta, Mekton Zero will be a roleplaying game instead of a miniatures combat game" or something to that effect. Seriously, WTF??? This is made even more strange by the fact that a lot of what is being presented seems geared towards creating and supporting a Battletech style miniatures combat game rather than traditional roleplaying as Mekton has always been before.
Another thing is that years ago when I was part of the MZML, I saw some of Max Mike's ideas for an upcoming Mekton edition. For one thing, he doesn't see any difference between asstastic Fuzion and Interlock. He also stated that he saw the construction system of Mekton and the toolkit nature of the game as a liability. He wanted to make Mekton setting specific, instead of the General Mecha Anime game which I am in love with. Everything said in the trailer and printed in the Kickstarter description seems to support the idea that he is proceeding in this direction, which I consider anathema to playability and enjoyability in Mekton.
Looking at the mock up of the Mekton sheets, I can tell they're using some variant of Mekton: The Movie combat system from the MZ Tactical Screen. That particular rule designed for mass combat doesn't work well at all, and I'd question anyone who used it.
The stuff about Katas and Individual Mecha Traits sounds really cool, but the prototype Mekton Sheet showing how they are intended to be implemented looks like the same kind of non-effort as put forth for Martial Arts styles in Cyberpunk 2020.
I would like to see Mekton minis. A Murian Excaliber would be cool as an Elarian summer. I'd like to support Mekton.
But, quite frankly, I think Mike Pondsmith has lost his mind. At the very least, he is no longer in touch with what I found appealling about this games in the past. Plus, his reputation as being able to deliver is severely tarnished. If he does deliver, I don't think it will be a serious effort.
Mike Pondsmith is a tremendously good game designer on the whole - Mekton, Falkenstein, Cyberpunk - and I think betting on him isn't the worst idea BUT the KS pledge levels look pricey.
Saw the video. Saw the same red flag. Not sold. No evidence yet that this is not still "Fucking Doll Art" Maximum Mike, instead of the man that made MZ.
Well, the fact that it's backwards compatible with MZ leads me to believe that this isn't a reboot of the system, but a setting specific line for the Algol campaign. Which could be good. We already have MZ for our generic mecha needs, and this could fill the desire some players have for a strong setting.
Having said that, I too am worried that Uncle Mike has gotten very out of touch since he dropped out of RPGs and took his break. So... no. Not gonna back this. I may pick it up after it launches. They already have half the base funding on day one.
Fuck!
Now I've got to think about this, a lot.
I'll probably feel sorry about this, but I'm gonna do it. I just want to see some signs of life for Mekton already.
Mike Pondsmith commented that Mekton Zero will use a hybrid Interlock and Fuzion rules set, with an entirely new method of character generation. It makes me curious if this is a testbed for the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 RPG.
Fuzion yukky. Pass.
Quote from: Celestial;657213Mike Pondsmith commented that Mekton Zero will use a hybrid Interlock and Fuzion rules set, with an entirely new method of character generation. It makes me curious if this is a testbed for the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 RPG.
Fuzion = Fail.
Do not pass Go. Do not pledge any money.
I am disappointed there is no all-digital option. Don't want bookmarks, t-shirts or other swag. Just want the pdf.
Not entirely sure what Mike P has in mind for the rules for Mekton Zero, but as a fan of his other games I am willing to give it a chance...assuming I get an all-digital option.
If the guy uses action figures for the art here, then he really needs to have his head examined.
Three days in, and Mekton Zero is funded. Not bad!
Quote from: Prophetsteve;657372I am disappointed there is no all-digital option. Don't want bookmarks, t-shirts or other swag. Just want the pdf.
Not entirely sure what Mike P has in mind for the rules for Mekton Zero, but as a fan of his other games I am willing to give it a chance...assuming I get an all-digital option.
According to the Kickstarter page, you can select to forego the physical swag and use it as credit towards stuff in stretch goals. Still, I agree that an actual all digital tier would be preferable.
OK while I think he really screwed the pooch with the 3rd ed CP, this looks seriously cool. I think the criticisms that have been put forth are a bit over blown. This seems like an expanded Zeta with a setting baked in. It looks very interesting.
Fuzion is kind of unfortunate...
There is enough time left on this that I can afford to wait a couple of paydays before deciding if it is worth funding or not.
Quote from: jeff37923;658009There is enough time left on this that I can afford to wait a couple of paydays before deciding if it is worth funding or not.
I think I'm in the same boat.
The first stretch goal was announced (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1888572386/mekton-zero/posts/492654)... and it's all about the miniatures. This made me curious, so I asked Mike Pondsmith if miniatures would be required to play Mekton Zero. This is his answer:
QuoteIt's a lot more fun, but you can use any counter or chip instead of minis. And with the roleplaying component, often players will be out of their meks anyway.
Sounds like Mekton Zero will be on the more tactical side of things.
I dont quite get the fuzion hate, its just another dice+stat+skill vs target system, like a whole lot of other similar systems. I like the current free version (5.02) and the cut down instant fuzion.
I asked Mike and he said this version will be some hybrid version. going to be interesting to see if he streamlines it or goes more slow-tactical with it.
Quote from: BloodyCactus;658087I dont quite get the fuzion hate, its just another dice+stat+skill vs target system, like a whole lot of other similar systems.
Agreed
Here's some of Mike Pondsmith's comments from the Kickstarter, for those on the fence:
QuoteQ: Are you planning on offering a PDF only pledge level?
A: We will not be offering a "digital only" pledge level. There are a number of reasons for this, first among which is that we have spent weeks (literally) balancing out pledge levels and overhead costs to make sure that all elements of this project are funded properly. Trust me--the cost of writing, editing, layout, art and so on far outweigh the costs of printing, so that even a PDF isn't "free." However, the Separate Buy ability will allow backers at the base levels to trade in unwanted items for other PDF based products in Stretch Goals to come.
Q: Are you planning any kind of PDF add-ons, such as setting materials, etc?
A: The majority of upcoming stretch goals will be in the form of Episodes, which combine new background, new missions, new characters, new teams and new mecha designs in each package. Think of them as Guides for an ongoing Mekton Zero mecha TV show. These will be PDF releases, with the option to scale up to hardcopy at later levels. Larger add-ons, like manuals and so on, will be released as part of our regularly planned M-Zero schedule.
Q: What format will the Core M-Zero book be in?
A: The Core M-Zero book will be released as a 200+ page, black and white book with a full color cover (or a matching PDF version). Further stretch goals may allow us to add full color and/or a hardcover option to this, and pretty much depend on whether we get enough interest to fund these options.
Q: Are the Dice custom and what is on them?
A: The dice are indeed custom; they are four different types of D10's, each in a different color with text and symbols engraved on them. Each allows the player to randomly roll damage as allocated on a specific type of damage table (frame hit location, specific damage location, critical damage location and special effect damage). Using them really speeds up gameplay. We'll be posting the templates for these as soon as we get the prototypes in.
Also, I will be posting my "Designer Notes" on M-Zero on the RTG website http://rtalsoriangames.wordpress.com/ starting tomorrow, in case you're interested in why we did all this and what the overall plan for Mekton is!
Brendan: Algol Zero is set in a somewhat retconned history; we needed to add a few years between the First Mekton War and the events of Rimfire--the numbers didn't work out otherwise. Assume it happens a couple of years after the Elarans throw off the Kargan Occupation and continues for roughly 20 years till the events of the first Orbital War.
I noticed that the Kickstarter seems to have a focus on miniatures, so I asked Mr. Pondsmith if Mekton Zero can be played sans miniatures. His answer:
QuoteYes. It's a lot more fun, but you can use any counter or chip instead of minis. And with the roleplaying component, often players will be out of their meks anyway.
While I'll keep my Mekton Zero pledge at some level as I want to see the game made, I'm growing a bit wary. I think the lack of an all digital tier is a big mistake, and I'm also not fond of the more tactical feel he seems to be aiming for.
BTW a ton of R Talsorian stuff is on DTRPG now. Including Falkenstein.
Quote from: CRKrueger;658914BTW a ton of R Talsorian stuff is on DTRPG now. Including Falkenstein.
I looked into it, it seems that they went with scans instead of digital proofs though. I'm sure it would be fine for use copies, and I don't have one to compare with the quality of the original print run, but I'd imagine that it would suffer some with respects to the higher quality art that they put in CF.
For those interested, the first designer notes for Mekton Zero are up (http://rtalsoriangames.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/mekton-zero-the-designers-notes-1/).
It makes me feel better knowing Mike Pondsmith has already written Mekton Zero and has been playing it for years.
With four days remaining, the next two stretch goals have been announced:
QuoteAt $40,000 we'll print the Mekton Zero Core Book in Full Color to showcase our exciting art by Mark Simmons and many others!
Then, at $45,000 we'll print the book in Hard Cover for durability and stopping those random plasma bolts that come your way during your games!
Full color would be nice.
Quote from: CRKrueger;657065It would help if Pondsmith explained what the hell he was thinking when he made Cyberpunk 3.0, just so we know he isn't insane.
Yep, because if we got a proper answer on this I might be less concerned that the artwork in the new Mekton won't consist of Punch & Judy Gundam edition action puppets. I really need reassurances like that before I'll put money down on something like this, even if I think Mike is cool as beans otherwise (he really is).
Quote from: camazotz;663322Yep, because if we got a proper answer on this I might be less concerned that the artwork in the new Mekton won't consist of Punch & Judy Gundam edition action puppets. I really need reassurances like that before I'll put money down on something like this, even if I think Mike is cool as beans otherwise (he really is).
At least some of the art is being done by some mecha artists who I see on deviantart.)
Albeit still very anime stuff. (Not the realistic paintings that some artists use.)
I'll be curious to see what styles and types of mecha they come up with.
if they make 40k, doing it in full colour would rock!
Less than a day left in the Kickstarter campaign, and only approximately $1,500 away from unlocking hardcover books.
I will admit that the pledge tiers left me a bit perplexed. I really would like the referee screen and Kickstarter exclusive mission, but I have absolutely no interest in a bumper sticker, tee-shirt, map, nor miniatures. It isn't worth it to me to pledge all that extra money for those things just to get the referee screen and Kickstarter exclusive mission. C'est la vie.
Quote from: Celestial;664582Less than a day left in the Kickstarter campaign, and only approximately $1,500 away from unlocking hardcover books.
I will admit that the pledge tiers left me a bit perplexed. I really would like the referee screen and Kickstarter exclusive mission, but I have absolutely no interest in a bumper sticker, tee-shirt, map, nor miniatures. It isn't worth it to me to pledge all that extra money for those things just to get the referee screen and Kickstarter exclusive mission. C'est la vie.
Sounds like a serious sort of mistake with planning the tiers.
RPGPundit
I have to admit that I'm pretty happy that I didn't contribute to this one. It's turned out pretty much like I expected.
Two years later, the only proof the book exists is a quick video showing a flip through of some colored pages. And it has been flat out stated that no work has been done on the minis whatsoever.
I guess that's what 250% of the original goal gets ya.
Yeesh, here I was kind of excited. I'd buy this if it came out, shame it hasn't.
As long as this thread is necro'd, I wonder if folks could elaborate on the problem with Fuzion v Interlock.
As some who liked both, I'm curious as well.
Mekton's various prior editions are readily available for cheap. I see no reason for another version. Much like D&D and Hero and Call of Cthulhu, ad infinitum.
Quote from: Matt;830955Mekton's various prior editions are readily available for cheap. I see no reason for another version. Much like D&D and Hero and Call of Cthulhu, ad infinitum.
This.
Even though it is over 25 years old,
Mekton II still holds its own as an anime mecha game.
Mekton Zeta is no slouch either in that genre.
Mekton II remains my favorite (incl. the cover), although I have a strange nostalgia for my 1st edition and Road Striker.
Yeah, I've been burned by this Kickstarter. Every other Kickstarter project I've backed has delivered within six months after its estimated release date, (with the exception of the video game Star Citizen). Not this one. Oh well, live and learn. I'll chalk this up as a loss, right along with my ICONS Team-Up pre-order...
At least Mike Pondsmith said in one of the Kickstarter comments that he will never run another Kickstarter again.
I'm turbo pissed.
This one got me for about $150. I got in on one of the upper levels, and was VERY excited for its release. I love me some Mekton... and here it is two friggin years later and bupkis.
Grrrr.
Quote from: Arminius;830941As long as this thread is necro'd, I wonder if folks could elaborate on the problem with Fuzion v Interlock.
The specific things
I didn't like as much about Fuzion had mostly to do with the dice (3d6 vs 1d10) and the sheer volume of hastily put together crap they stuck the Fuzion label on. It just felt shallow to me, even (and especially) the BGC stuff. Champions could have been a lot better if they'd gone the distance to putting out all the old books as reissues under Fuzion, but the system just doesn't feel right for supers either. I have a hard time quantifying it, but Fuzion in and of itself just doesn't feel right when I run it, even with putting the optional rules in place to make it more like CP2020. And this is coming from a longtime and complete RTG fanboy. Between the Fuzion glut and CP 3.0 they finally disgusted me and I had to stop paying attention to them.
I'd rather play Battletech and Mechwarrior with my own setting.
I noticed there was a seemingly positive update about Mekton Zero, but since I didn't back it, I can't see what it is. Anyone want to share the relevant details?
Basically:
- Mike Pondsmith apologized for the lack of updates, as he's been extremely busy working on both Cyberpunk and The Witcher.
- PDFs of the core book, the expansion, and adventures will be released to backers by the end of September.
- The dice, patches, tee-shirts, maps, and other related items are sitting in a warehouse, and will be shipped to backers by the end of September.
- They haven't figured out the printing of the core book yet, and the figures are still being worked on. No ETA on either.
No mention of when the PDFs will be made available to non-backers.
Quote from: Celestial;912712Basically:
- Mike Pondsmith apologized for the lack of updates, as he's been extremely busy working on both Cyberpunk and The Witcher.
- PDFs of the core book, the expansion, and adventures will be released to backers by the end of September.
- The dice, patches, tee-shirts, maps, and other related items are sitting in a warehouse, and will be shipped to backers by the end of September.
- They haven't figured out the printing of the core book yet, and the figures are still being worked on. No ETA on either.
No mention of when the PDFs will be made available to non-backers.
Well at least its some thing at this point dear god.
One thing to keep in mind regarding Fuzion vs Interlock is that Interlock is more intuitive about the numbers. Everything scales from one to ten. While not technically accurate, you could call this base ten gaming, which we grok intuitively due to the standard number of fingers of your average human being (in theory).
Fuzion generally asks you to cap out around 7 or so, with genre dependent caps making alternates. That's just the attributes. Skills can still go to ten, but also tend to fall shorter due to scaling costs (as I recall), and fewer available points for a similar sized skill list. Thus you move from intuitive 'base ten' to a non-intuitive base... nothing.
Then you move to the practical, such as computing odds.
In Interlock, with attributes and skills... and the dice... all providing the same basic range you can 'white room' a difficulty. DC 25? A top tier expert (ten+ten) succeeds half the time, so average difficulty for the world's best expert. DC 30? The world's best expert succeeds only when he gets luck.
DC10? Your average chump with no skill can do this. DC15? your average chump, with a good professional level of skill succeeds half the time.
Thus you can map DCs to 'the real world' on the fly and tell if you're making things too hard or too easy.
Doing the same thing in interlock, especially with floating caps?
Possible, but hardly something you'd want to on the fly. We could go on with the analysis, talk about how bell curve dice alter the flow vs a single die distribution... but like over/under debates a lot of it comes down to personal preference and experience. I rather like bell curve dice within limits as you get less of the wildly uncommon 'critical' events.
And that is purely talking math and mechanics. In terms of design the various Fuzion games were lacking in a large number of areas. There was a lot of unsupported hype (dials and switches and plug in mechanics to make your own game, which in a dozen or so products (hundreds counting online fan products, of which I have several), that never quite materialized.), leading to a sense of disappointment and failure that might be undeserved, but is nevertheless real.
Take Champions, the flagship product. The Original Champions is a marvel of design for a supers game. Almost any power you can conceive of can be built in a reasonably flexible system and supported. Not necessarily a fun system (as, say, Traveller ship building...), but much better than, oh, Gurps did it.
Fuzion Champions however, did away with most of that flexibilty and 'design your own' in favor of a bland list of generic powers and ruthlessly balanced descriptors, resulting ultimately in only a handful of possible character builds, relying more on imagination to diferentiate between various characters. Fine for a game designer with an art budget, not as fun for players at the table.
Does that answer your question? I mean... I got lots of words, I can go on.
I remember getting into the Artesia comic and got the RPG, Oy Vey that Fuzion system...
Then I realized that the world of Artesia is basically a RuneQuest campaign and system choice became easy.
Quote from: kosmos1214;912727Well at least its some thing at this point dear god.
Yeah, but considering this is the third... or fourth... "it's coming real soon now, swear!" update over the past three years, I'll believe it when I see it.
Quote from: Celestial;912933Yeah, but considering this is the third... or fourth... "it's coming real soon now, swear!" update over the past three years, I'll believe it when I see it.
It is?
Ok i didnt know there where 3 others.
Quote from: CRKrueger;912889I remember getting into the Artesia comic and got the RPG, Oy Vey that Fuzion system...
Then I realized that the world of Artesia is basically a RuneQuest campaign and system choice became easy.
Fusion isn't bad. It's not great, but not bad. I can get behind it to a degree. I'm not gonna use another system to run Armored Trooper VOTOMS. But I'm not gonna seek it out either. If that makes sense.
Quote from: Ronin;913068Fusion isn't bad. It's not great, but not bad. I can get behind it to a degree. I'm not gonna use another system to run Armored Trooper VOTOMS. But I'm not gonna seek it out either. If that makes sense.
I liked what Fuzion tried to do. It didn't work, entirely, but the try was there and I respect it for it.
Quote from: Celestial;912712Basically:
- Mike Pondsmith apologized for the lack of updates, as he's been extremely busy working on both Cyberpunk and The Witcher.
- PDFs of the core book, the expansion, and adventures will be released to backers by the end of September.
- The dice, patches, tee-shirts, maps, and other related items are sitting in a warehouse, and will be shipped to backers by the end of September.
- They haven't figured out the printing of the core book yet, and the figures are still being worked on. No ETA on either.
No mention of when the PDFs will be made available to non-backers.
It's now the end of October, and still no PDFs. But they did release a Kickstarter update!
QuoteAfter a quick test run of the PDF, we found some big formatting errors making the book difficult to read. We are hammering out the fixes for this so we can get back on track. While that is happening, Mike is continuing with some play testing as well as completing development of the final stages of the book. We have found two qualified editors and hired them. They are at the ready to jump on the final edits once the book is completed.
So not only is the book not completed, they're still in play testing mode... and yet promised release of the PDF for last month. But it gets better!
R. Talsorian was not happy with any of the printing options for the book and its accessories. So what did they do? They just purchased their very own printing press, and are learning how to use it! That worked out so well for Mongoose after all.
...
Yeah, this is just a joke at this point.
GameZone did much the same. Bought resin casting equipment and was "learning how to use it" with some of their KS money for Heroquest 25.
It's pretty clear to me that all of R. Talsorian's focus is on Cyberpunk 2077 and the Witcher RPG, and Mekton Zero was just a test run for them. The original delay's given reason was that they were using 15 year-old publishing software to make the game with, and there were large incompatibilities with Windows 8.1. So they had to purchase all new modern publishing software and learn how to use it.
Now they just purchased a printing press and are learning how to use it.
So they should be all ready for Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher with new publishing software and a printing press!
All I know is that I won't be giving R. Talsorian another dime in the future.
Quote from: Celestial;926501All I know is that I won't be giving R. Talsorian another dime in the future.
I'd buy their stuff. In the store. Give it a flip through, read some reviews. That kinda thing.
Not interested in giving them any kickstarter money though. R Tal has just been too flaky.
Quote from: CRKrueger;912889Then I realized that the world of Artesia is basically a RuneQuest campaign and system choice became easy.
Let's hear it from the man himself (http://qwillery.blogspot.com.br/2014/03/interview-with-mark-smylie-author-of.html):
Quote from: the linked interviewTQ: What sort of research did you do for The Barrow?
Mark: I’ve been putting together the Known World, the setting of The Barrow and the Artesia comics, on and off for almost twenty years now. A lot of research tidbits have gone into it: I took from the Greeks and Romans for religious and cult practice, the ancient Celts, medieval feudalism, European shamanic and witchcraft traditions, the Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, Venice during the early Renaissance, etc., mixed it all with influences from old-school role-playing settings like the Judges Guild Wilderlands and the world of Glorantha created for the game RuneQuest—and of course I hope I have added enough difference in the details to provide a new and interesting setting for fantasy readers. I’ve got a research library of a couple of thousand volumes that I draw on when I want to think about what the characters are eating, what they’re wearing, how they’re interacting with each other and the world around them. I mean, don’t get me wrong, The Barrow is an adventure story and a quest story first and foremost and I’ve tried not to bog the reader down in too much fantasy history, but I’ve also tried to flesh out a world around the characters that helps explain why they’re doing the things they’re doing (other than just the usual human impulses of greed, love, hate, lust, etc., though all that’s in there too).
Why the Artesia RPG uses fucking
Fuzion is beyond my paltry faculties.
Quote from: The Butcher;926531Let's hear it from the man himself (http://qwillery.blogspot.com.br/2014/03/interview-with-mark-smylie-author-of.html):
Why the Artesia RPG uses fucking Fuzion is beyond my paltry faculties.
Maybe Smylie didn't want anything to do with Chaosium or a licensee like Mongoose or TDM (which, seeing how Chaosium has treated all the past RQ licensees and lines like Magic World, that might not have been a bad call). Now with Legend fully OGL and Mythras is free at last, free at last, who knows?
So in other words its not out yet.
It'll be out the day before the Buckaroo Banzai RPG.
Quote from: Celestial;926686It'll be out the day before the Buckaroo Banzai RPG.
How about duke nukem forever that's never going to come out at this rate. :P
And it's debacles like this that keep me away from Kickstarters.
Quote from: Celestial;926486So not only is the book not completed, they're still in play testing mode... and yet promised release of the PDF for last month. But it gets better!
Very sad.
Incidentally, wasn't it claimed in the Kickstarter that all this stuff was already playtested rules which had been used in Pondsmith's games for years?
Maybe I said it before, but I'm amazed how badly this has been fumbled. I expected it to not be fully delivered, but I at least thought the book would be finished by now.
I never believed the idea that this was a pre-existing ruleset which just needed to be given pretty presentation. I was certain it was just some half formed ideas in Pondsmith's mind which he'd haphazardly attach to Fuzion. All this stalling and convenient setbacks have made me wonder if in all this time the book was ever written to begin with.
Will it be out before Mechanoids, though?
Quote from: RPGPundit;928285Will it be out before Mechanoids, though?
I thought they allready released a Mechanoids collection book? (And the Rifts:Mechanoids book. Not sure of that counts?)
No, those don't count. Kevin has been promising a shiny new Mechanoid Space game since, well, Rifts: Mechanoids at least.
Quote from: DavetheLost;928307No, those don't count. Kevin has been promising a shiny new Mechanoid Space game since, well, Rifts: Mechanoids at least.
Which makes it what, 25 years now?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;926812And it's debacles like this that keep me away from Kickstarters.
What's the ratio of KS debacles to success stories up to now anyway, 10 to 1? It sure feels that way when whenever KS comes up.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;928753What's the ratio of KS debacles to success stories up to now anyway, 10 to 1? It sure feels that way when whenever KS comes up.
Mine is 1:13
1 Debacle (Far West), 13 successful kickstarters.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;928753What's the ratio of KS debacles to success stories up to now anyway, 10 to 1? It sure feels that way when whenever KS comes up.
Excluding the Kickstarters that I backed fairly recently, so far I've had 14 fulfill without issue and 2 run into significant delays. Neither of those are at Far West levels yet, fortunately, and I'm hopeful that the finished products for both will see the light of day in the next few months since the PDFs are already out.
Quote from: CRKrueger;928767Mine is 1:13
1 Debacle (Far West), 13 successful kickstarters.
Almost exactly the same for me, although I'd characterize mine as 13.5 successful, 0.5 debacles--
Cartoon Action Hour Season 3 did fine in PDF, but the print version's been one misfire after another. None of them seem to be C.C. Miller's fault, but lack of communication hasn't helped. It looks like things are finally, albeit slowly, moving forward again.
I think the reason for Shipyard's impression is that Kickstarters usually only get talked about outside existing fan circles when they a) take off spectacularly, b) fail spectacularly, or c) both.
The Robotech RPG Tactics minis game is the only troubled Kickstarter I've been in. And that's not even a real debacle (for me) because I did get the huge box of Wave 1 minis which could probably be flipped for close to my investment. AKA, I spent $150 and I could sell Wave 1 for $100 if I wanted to give up on waiting for Wave 2 (which probably would be smart, but I want a Robotech minis game!).
I've backed 21 projects. Out of those, 16 are complete and I'm generally happy to extremely happy with the results. I am waiting on the Mine Kafon Drone project to go into the field (very cool new tech to destroy mines), and I have 3 game KS that are all shipping within 6 months.
Though to be fair, 90% of the KS I back are effectively finished projects or charity projects (Lightsail, Reading Rainbow, RPM music fest, etc) that I trust.
Quote from: DavetheLost;928307Kevin has been promising a shiny new Mechanoid Space game since, well, Rifts: Mechanoids at least.
I am hoping the partnership with Savage Worlds leads to a remake of Mechanoids.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;928753What's the ratio of KS debacles to success stories up to now anyway, 10 to 1? It sure feels that way when whenever KS comes up.
FOR ME, 1:1 (as in 50% success rate) is enough to keep me away.
But then, I list being late on delivery as a failure to meet obligations.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;928794FOR ME, 1:1 (as in 50% success rate) is enough to keep me away.
But then, I list being late on delivery as a failure to meet obligations.
So every video game or console game you've ever pre-ordered in your life is counted as unsuccessful? There hasn't been a piece of software released on time in 75 years. :D
Lots of people get peeved over the late fulfillment and that's a factor of many KS creators not baking in time for dealing with the inevitable oopsies that occur. That's how Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine, aka SWN, Godbound, Silent Legions, etc) delivers his KS early. He builds in time just in case something goes wrong - late artists, tech disasters, life being life, and most other KS creators could learn from that.
Better to promise Christmas and deliver for Halloween, then promise arrival for Halloween and deliver on Christmas. Or worse, Easter.
For me, KS arrive when they arrive. I'm a Blizzard fan so I hath learneth much patience.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;928753What's the ratio of KS debacles to success stories up to now anyway, 10 to 1? It sure feels that way when whenever KS comes up.
Nah, the opposite really. It just seems like there are more Kickstarter failures than successes, because when they do fail, they fail spectacularly. See Far West and... well... Mekton Zero.
What happened with Mekton Zero?
Quote from: CRKrueger;928832So every video game or console game you've ever pre-ordered in your life is counted as unsuccessful? There hasn't been a piece of software released on time in 75 years. :D
Your assuming I pre-order video games. I do not. It doesn't help anyone except the companies, and why should I want to help a company before they have a product for me to buy?
I also don't 'early access' either.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;928867Your assuming I pre-order video games. I do not. It doesn't help anyone except the companies, and why should I want to help a company before they have a product for me to buy?
I also don't 'early access' either.
Well maybe just maybe some of us pre-order because we like the game and want to see the sequel!!!!!!!
KS: 1 very late (years) but I still have hope. 1 delivered pdf but not the rest, years later I have written it off. A couple ran into serious delays. None have completely flaked. Some have delivered early.
Quote from: kosmos1214;929418Well maybe just maybe some of us pre-order because we like the game and want to see the sequel!!!!!!!
The issue, for me, and just me here, is that I prefer judging a finished game for what it has, and with a pre-order you know nothing but what the publisher tells their audience. And given how some of these games have SUCKED (Aliens: Colonial Marines), I refuse to buy day one, much less throw money before I know what the game is like.
We've KSed for Shadowrun, Wastelands and Facerig. All three have delivered so far.
Unfortunately A few friends now have backed failed projects. Despite us warning them not to. One big warning sign is when they state that they dont have a programmer yet or even artists/modellers. Sorry. No. Aint backing.
Also unfortunately I've been playtester for three now board games that went to KS and then failed in one form or another. One failed to deliver its stretch goals, but is selling the game in stores. One took the money and ran. One the designer turned into jerk and has been treating backers like dirt after both after the KS changing the rules and not delivering all that was promised, and using lower quality stock. THEN demanding more money or else no stretch goals. And another one that looks to be headed that way too. Hope not.
Some people have perfect luck with KS/CF backing. Others seem to gravitate to the worst ones somehow even when theres no warning signs.
Now over four years later, and still nothing. Last update was from May, and basically just said, "Hey, we're still working on it!"
Even if the game ever does see the light of day, at this point I don't think that I would ever use it.
Never heard of Mekton until now. Japanese giant robots aren't really my thing, though, aside from Robotech, but it's the American version I like.
Quote from: Celestial;974094Now over four years later, and still nothing.
(https://koalaenpma.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/tumbleweed-o.gif)
So, I'm working on this game... We wanted to use Interlock / MZ as the engine. Word from Pondsmith was "We're not licensing Interlock anymore, we've got a new Fuzion-based Mekton coming out, wait for that!"
That was how long ago now? We both eagerly backed the Kickstarter, me at the $125 level.
Fast forward four years and we're working with an actual game company to get our game out, and writing a system to run it. New Mekton is still vaporware.
Ugh.
Quote from: Dumarest;974229Never heard of Mekton until now. Japanese giant robots aren't really my thing, though, aside from Robotech, but it's the American version I like.
It's a really good system (the original Mekton) which used the Cyberpunk 2020 Interlock system. I believe that Pondsmith's son is/was supposed to be finishing up the new Mekton.
Cyberpunk 2077 happened. I surmise that Mekton development slowed because of the advent of CP2077. This is not a *fact*, just a guess based on how things run there (and based on my interactions because I might/might not be getting involved in the CP2077 game).
Quote from: colwebbsfmc;974312So, I'm working on this game... We wanted to use Interlock / MZ as the engine. Word from Pondsmith was "We're not licensing Interlock anymore, we've got a new Fuzion-based Mekton coming out, wait for that!"
This is news to me. I thought Interlock was R.Talsorian's system. Is there something I'm missing?
Or wait, do you mean you're working on a game that's going to use Interlock, and Pondsmith said the system isn't available anymore?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;974323This is news to me. I thought Interlock was R.Talsorian's system. Is there something I'm missing?
Or wait, do you mean you're working on a game that's going to use Interlock, and Pondsmith said the system isn't available anymore?
To my understanding - Mekton and all games going forward were going to use some new version of Fuzion. I'm not even sure you can have a system that requires licensing? Mechanics-wise that is. You can't use their terminology, I imagine, so you couldn't call it Interlock.
I've never been a big fan of Fuzion.
Got excited when I saw this thread, then found out its years old and then was glad since it seems folks got screwed over. :(
Quote from: Ratman_tf;974323This is news to me. I thought Interlock was R.Talsorian's system. Is there something I'm missing?
Or wait, do you mean you're working on a game that's going to use Interlock, and Pondsmith said the system isn't available anymore?
Sorry, yes, we wanted to license Interlock FROM R. Tal to use in a new game of our own. The word came back that they will not do so, all products from here on are Fuzion.
I don't wanna write a Fuzion game. I wanna write an Interlock game.
Now, it is true that you can't copyright game mechanics, only presentation - but so much work went into Mekton Zeta Plus that I'd not want to be that douchebag who carbon copied it. I mean, OSR is a beautiful thing, but the simple mechanics of early D&D are one thing. Copying the mecha creation math of Mekton Zeta Plus and filing off the serial numbers would just be... I dunno. Feels wrong. So we're using it as a guiding star and writing our own stuff.
Quote from: colwebbsfmc;974409Sorry, yes, we wanted to license Interlock FROM R. Tal to use in a new game of our own. The word came back that they will not do so, all products from here on are Fuzion.
I don't wanna write a Fuzion game. I wanna write an Interlock game.
Now, it is true that you can't copyright game mechanics, only presentation - but so much work went into Mekton Zeta Plus that I'd not want to be that douchebag who carbon copied it. I mean, OSR is a beautiful thing, but the simple mechanics of early D&D are one thing. Copying the mecha creation math of Mekton Zeta Plus and filing off the serial numbers would just be... I dunno. Feels wrong. So we're using it as a guiding star and writing our own stuff.
That's a shame. I like Interlock much more than Fuzion.
Good luck on your project. I did use Interlock as part of the inspiration for my own Transformers RPG system. It's a solid foundation to build on.
Who knows? Maybe your game will be the Pathfinder of Mekton. :) RTal seems to be dragging their feet in the market.
Quote from: tenbones;974319It's a really good system (the original Mekton) which used the Cyberpunk 2020 Interlock system. I believe that Pondsmith's son is/was supposed to be finishing up the new Mekton.
Cyberpunk 2077 happened. I surmise that Mekton development slowed because of the advent of CP2077. This is not a *fact*, just a guess based on how things run there (and based on my interactions because I might/might not be getting involved in the CP2077 game).
Thanks for the information. Unfortunately I don't know Interlock (sounds like an antitheft device) and have never played Cyberpunk. (The whole cyber thing was outside my area of interest even back in the 90s.) Any chance you could describe the mechanics or workings of Interlock? Or point me to somewhere that does that?
Quote from: Dumarest;974470Thanks for the information. Unfortunately I don't know Interlock (sounds like an antitheft device) and have never played Cyberpunk. (The whole cyber thing was outside my area of interest even back in the 90s.) Any chance you could describe the mechanics or workings of Interlock? Or point me to somewhere that does that?
Stat + Skill + modifiers + 1d10 roll. Beat a target number. Stats and skills range from 1-10.
Armor is staged penetration. Stops an amount of damage up to the rating of the armor. Every hit reduces that armor rating by 1. So eventually your armor is going to be full of holes.
Cyberpunk has a fairly fiddly wound state system. Mekton simplifies this to a number of hits per body location.
Mekton mecha use the same system, scaled up to either Roadstriker (Transformers type car robots) or the big mecha.
It's a really simple system, that flows well.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;974483Stat + Skill + modifiers + 1d10 roll. Beat a target number. Stats and skills range from 1-10.
Armor is staged penetration. Stops an amount of damage up to the rating of the armor. Every hit reduces that armor rating by 1. So eventually your armor is going to be full of holes.
Cyberpunk has a fairly fiddly wound state system. Mekton simplifies this to a number of hits per body location.
Mekton mecha use the same system, scaled up to either Roadstriker (Transformers type car robots) or the big mecha.
It's a really simple system, that flows well.
To add to Ratman's succinct explanation - your target numbers range from 10-30. Average target number is 15. Ranged combat are static based on range. Melee are contested rolls with Attackers rolling against Defenders, then vice versa.
Wound Track - Everyone has the same wound tracks (HP). Basically it's 4-Wounds per Stage. There are 10 Stages (so "40-hp"). Any damage that bypasses your armor is applied to your wound track. Each stage gives you progressively worse penalties. So the first 4 points is "Light", the next 4 is "Serious", the next 4 is "Critical" and so forth. You might be wondering how everyone has the same amount of wounds, your character's Body Stat gives you a modifier to all damage received. So bigger, tougher characters, take effectively less damage in each instance.
It SOUNDS complicated - it's not at all. Lemme give you an example...
So let's say your opponent has a high-caliber pistol (Colt 12MM which does 4d6+1) and someone shoots you. And you're wearing a lightly armored coat or whatever which gives you an SP (Stopping Power - or armor) of 6. He rolls 13 damage. Your a big dude, and your body is 9 (out of 10) your stat gives you a -3 modifier to damage. So you take 7 damage, but your body-type modifier drops that to 4.
So you'd be lightly wounded with 4 boxes on your wound-track filled in.
Simple... but what makes CP2020 crazy, is that one bullet. Someone firing a fully automatic weapon might hit you MANY times and each bullet does full damage. So down the deathspiral you go. Each bodypart has it's own value (if you take 8-points to any bodypart in one hit that limb is destroyed. Ironically this can be a boon because a 7.62 round does 6d6+2 and obviously it's much nicer to take 8-points and lose an arm than take the full potential 38 and die like a pig in the street. heh).
I like Mike Pondsmith, but it seems Mike Pondsmith doesn't like money... sad.
Actually, I know he's been busy with other projects outside of tabletop RPGs for many many years... given which it does seem odd that he wouldn't bother just licensing a system he no longer wants to use.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;974483Stat + Skill + modifiers + 1d10 roll. Beat a target number. Stats and skills range from 1-10.
Armor is staged penetration. Stops an amount of damage up to the rating of the armor. Every hit reduces that armor rating by 1. So eventually your armor is going to be full of holes.
Cyberpunk has a fairly fiddly wound state system. Mekton simplifies this to a number of hits per body location.
Mekton mecha use the same system, scaled up to either Roadstriker (Transformers type car robots) or the big mecha.
It's a really simple system, that flows well.
Vielen Dank.
Quote from: tenbones;974551To add to Ratman's succinct explanation - your target numbers range from 10-30. Average target number is 15. Ranged combat are static based on range. Melee are contested rolls with Attackers rolling against Defenders, then vice versa.
Wound Track - Everyone has the same wound tracks (HP). Basically it's 4-Wounds per Stage. There are 10 Stages (so "40-hp"). Any damage that bypasses your armor is applied to your wound track. Each stage gives you progressively worse penalties. So the first 4 points is "Light", the next 4 is "Serious", the next 4 is "Critical" and so forth. You might be wondering how everyone has the same amount of wounds, your character's Body Stat gives you a modifier to all damage received. So bigger, tougher characters, take effectively less damage in each instance.
It SOUNDS complicated - it's not at all. Lemme give you an example...
So let's say your opponent has a high-caliber pistol (Colt 12MM which does 4d6+1) and someone shoots you. And you're wearing a lightly armored coat or whatever which gives you an SP (Stopping Power - or armor) of 6. He rolls 13 damage. Your a big dude, and your body is 9 (out of 10) your stat gives you a -3 modifier to damage. So you take 7 damage, but your body-type modifier drops that to 4.
So you'd be lightly wounded with 4 boxes on your wound-track filled in.
Simple... but what makes CP2020 crazy, is that one bullet. Someone firing a fully automatic weapon might hit you MANY times and each bullet does full damage. So down the deathspiral you go. Each bodypart has it's own value (if you take 8-points to any bodypart in one hit that limb is destroyed. Ironically this can be a boon because a 7.62 round does 6d6+2 and obviously it's much nicer to take 8-points and lose an arm than take the full potential 38 and die like a pig in the street. heh).
Also thanks to you.
Quote from: Spike;974567given which it does seem odd that he wouldn't bother just licensing a system he no longer wants to use.
This, It would seem to me like easy money and easy promotion.
Quote from: Ronin;974671This, It would seem to me like easy money and easy promotion.
Well, remember, the guy who owns The Fantasy Trip has let it sit in a vault for 35 years. People do weird stuff that does not benefit them in any way.
I'm just surprised they went with Fuzion. I actually preferred it to the Hero system. Easy to plug and play without the complexity of the system. That being said a sizeable amount of both Interlock and Hero System fans hated Fuzion. So Mike Pondsmith using Fuzion ito me is a big mistake imo.
I'm not sure if I've ever posted it, but I did at one time make a fairly comprehensive essay/post about the problem with Fuzion. I'll see if I can't tl;dr it for ya.
See: Fuzion is functionally Interlock (Stat+Skill+d10 roll), only whereas Interlock defaults everything to a base 10, matching both basic human instictive prejudices and, not coincidentally the numbers on teh d10, Fuzion... doesn't really default any of its numbers. For 'human level' games Stats can go to six, while for supers they may go to 10, or maybe even higher, while skills are benchmarked more or less to 10 (as with interlock) the way they are gained/used actually means you'll almost never see them use their full range, so you'll rarely see a skill over, maybe, 5 at best.
This means that on a fundamental level Fuzion is less intuitive, despite using the same basic system and range. That lack of intuitiveness makes it actually irritating to Interlock users, and somewhat harder to learn/teach for newcomers.
There is a lot more where that came from, but I'd have to dredge memories to really get into the heart of it. Its plug-in mentality is actually more of a hindrance due to poor implementation, etc...