Quote from: flyingmiceI'm sure if you ran a battery of medical tests, they'd register within the human norm. Mr. Hot-Melting-Glances would be a tad different.

How well would Dr. Strange really do on his Psych Eval?

Quote from: jrientsHow well would Dr. Strange really do on his Psych Eval?

Dr. Strange is kinda the poster boy for Kewl Powrz.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceDr. Strange is kinda the poster boy for Kewl Powrz.

That's my point.  He's a laid back master of spell-fu.  Meanwhile our pals Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark would come back far more messed up.

Quote from: flyingmiceRight. Inside that shell, Iron Man is just a normal guy. What's so hard to understand about that?

-clash

Not since the Extremis retrovirus....
He's now a superhuman who can control machines (I loved the artwork in the storyline and thought it well done, but hated the implications of him not being a normal man inside the suit anymore.)

Oh: and all tests on DR. Strange would show him a normal man. "Spell Fu" counts as special training

Quote from: flyingmiceI'm sure if you ran a battery of medical tests, they'd register within the human norm. Mr. Hot-Melting-Glances would be a tad different.

-clash

So? The comic book is called "Iron Man," not "Tony Stark, Normal Guy Wandering Around Doing Normal Things, Without Any Kewl Abilties." It isn't about him being a normal guy, it's about him being a scary dude with kewl powerz. His powers happen to come wrapped in a haze of techno-babble, but that doesn't make them any less kewl.

To put it in gamer terms, if he was playing a super hero game he'd have lots of powers on his sheet. Depending on the game his sheet would look almost identical to the same character with an identical suite of powers that came from being a mutant instead of a techie. He will probably get bonus build points / power points / whatever you wanna call them in return for having taken the "no trust me, I'm not really imbued with kewl powerz" flaw. Alternatively it might cost him more build points because unlike Superman he can make up powers on the spot if you give him enough time and a lab.

In essence, he's superman but his kryptonite is instead labelled "not wearing suit."

Quote from: James McMurrayIn essence, he's superman but his kryptonite is instead labelled "not wearing suit."

Wow. I've never heard it put that way.

Is that good or bad?

Edit:

I thought of a better comparison I think. Waaay back in the day Thor was mystically tied to a half-crippled doctor. His Hammer was turned into a cane, and if he was in his human form he could tap his cane and become Thor, God of Thunder. It wasn't a disguise though, so if he didn't have his cane he really was screwed. Tony Stark, if he doesn't have his armor, is screwed in the same manner.

I think we can all agree that Thor has Kewl Powerz. Being unable to use them some of the time doesn't lessen their cool factor, it just gives the author a plot device to use if he needs to put you in a situation that Iron Man or Thor could easily get out of.

Quote from: James McMurrayIs that good or bad?

Edit:

I thought of a better comparison I think. Waaay back in the day Thor was mystically tied to a half-crippled doctor. His Hammer was turned into a cane, and if he was in his human form he could tap his cane and become Thor, God of Thunder. It wasn't a disguise though, so if he didn't have his cane he really was screwed. Tony Stark, if he doesn't have his armor, is screwed in the same manner.

I think we can all agree that Thor has Kewl Powerz. Being unable to use them some of the time doesn't lessen their cool factor, it just gives the author a plot device to use if he needs to put you in a situation that Iron Man or Thor could easily get out of.

That's a good point. I remember the old Thor, the one with the cane, and thought he was pretty cool - though not one of my faves - but I stopped reading it when he became Thor all the time. I stopped reading Iron Man before whatever it is Tim mentioned happened to him, so I never knew about that. If Thor is Thor all the time, and Tony Stark doesn't need his suit, then they're the same thing essentially. I've stopped reading comics nowadays, except for TMNT, mostly because of the power creep. Everyone is getting more powerful gradually over time.

Titles I used to love:

Batman
Iron Man
Daredevil
Green Arrow
etc.

-clash

Right, I'm not especially inclined to differentiate powerz based purely on whether they're built into a character or gee-whiz gadgetry. But I feel that gadgetry vs. personal magic tends to correlate pretty well in practice with whether the powerz are limited in effect & duration. Related to this I also feel that personal magic is more susceptible to the fallacy that "if you really, really care, you will win", as if magic runs on emotion. Then again I base this more on Sailor Moon than on games.

Who says magic doesn't run on emotion? And how do they know?

Quote from: James McMurrayWho says magic doesn't run on emotion? And how do they know?

*Zaps James with lightning*
I do and because I say so, respectively.

Somebody get that man his medicine. Either he's hallucinating or he has the power to zap people with lightning they can't sense to no effect. In either case, he deserves some mind altering hallucinogens.

Quote from: James McMurrayIn either case, he deserves some mind altering hallucinogens.

Mind-altering hallucinogens all around!

But getting back to the on-topic-ness, I think that it's not all about whether the power is inherent. It's about what powers you don't have. For example, let's say that I wear a mask and can kill anybody just by looking at them (taking the mask off... and for the sake of the argument, one target at a time). This is a little extreme, but even with this I'm vulnerable. Some dude can just snipe me from the rooftops. I am now faced with the challenge of needing to know what and where my threats are. The problem isn't whether I can kill a man, but who I should kill.

Wow... I'm developing a hankering for divination-vs-illusion style "control the flow of information" shiz now.

Quote from: James McMurrayWho says magic doesn't run on emotion? And how do they know?

There's another thread for that, I think

But really I'm just talking about the cliche, often found in anime, but not exclusively in anime, where the villain says something really upsetting, or the villain attacks someone the hero cares about, and the hero's chi/mana/whatever suddenly flows at 150% due to the surge of emotion and REALLY NOT WANTING TO LET THE BAD GUYS WIN.

While it can be seen as a representation of "focus in the clutch" or "rising to the occasion", the portrayal of actual magical energy flowing from the hero conveys a message of "all you need to win is to believe and emote strongly", which is juvenile. And in the context of a game, it points toward handwaving unless you have some sort of metagame resource mechanic to limit the frequency and depth of "caring a whole lot".

Whereas powers that depend on gadgets are more clearly limited in power: the user might achieve enormous focus at a crucial point, but a pistol still isn't going to blow up an MBT.

Quote from: Elliot WilenThere's another thread for that, I think

But really I'm just talking about the cliche, often found in anime, but not exclusively in anime, where the villain says something really upsetting, or the villain attacks someone the hero cares about, and the hero's chi/mana/whatever suddenly flows at 150% due to the surge of emotion and REALLY NOT WANTING TO LET THE BAD GUYS WIN.

While it can be seen as a representation of "focus in the clutch" or "rising to the occasion", the portrayal of actual magical energy flowing from the hero conveys a message of "all you need to win is to believe and emote strongly", which is juvenile. And in the context of a game, it points toward handwaving unless you have some sort of metagame resource mechanic to limit the frequency and depth of "caring a whole lot".

Whereas powers that depend on gadgets are more clearly limited in power: the user might achieve enormous focus at a crucial point, but a pistol still isn't going to blow up an MBT.

In anime? I'm remembering at least a few cases where the exact opposite happened.

"His destrado is manifesting!"
"His ego barrier is under attack!"
"But how can the pilot's synch ratio be over 400%?"
Of course, these are all from the same series, but...

It's kind of a side issue, but yeah... I'm okay with the "morale bonus" so long as the reverse holds true and people can be "demoralized."