Quote from: JaegerWhen they're in genre like Exalted. Super cool.

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And what "genre" is Exalted exactly? The annoying as shit overcomplicated system where WW-swine-sluts indulge in the guilty pleasure of the kind of powergaming they have spent the last 15 years accusing others of being "immature play" and the property of the "unwashed masses" while they now excuse it as being "thematic", because secretly they desperately wanted to actually have some kind of fun instead of playing whining beret-wearing creatures-of-the-fucking-night all the time?

RPGPundit

Pundit, you doofus, what the fuck did that have to do with the topic?

We know White Wolf suxxorz, that has nothing to do with whether you enjoy k3w1 pw0rz in your game or not.

Don't threadcrap, as amusing as your mad rants are.

I like Superhero games. By definition we get kewl powerz. Does this mean I'm crap?

Yes... yes it does.  I'm sorry.

I find them tiresome and they instantly bog down any game they feature in.  In the case of Exalted they turn a quite nicely put together system into a nightmare of page flipping and rule interpretation.  I've never really liked super heros and I definitely don't like that vibe infecting other genres.

I like my character to be damn good at what he does.  

Now, what manefestation that skill takes, and on what level, depends entirely on genre.  

In a DBZ game, being damn good might mean being able to blow up planets.

In D&D it might mean a rogue/assassin who can stick a dagger straight through your kidney before you realize he's even there, or it might mean a sorceror who can throw giant balls of fire from his hands.

And in a game of Recon where the players are greenhorns in Vietnam, it might just mean being able to hit the broadside of a barn, and not pissing my pants at the first sign of a firefight.

In CoC, it might just mean escaping the great and unspeakable evil with only a mild case of paranoid schizophrenia.

Excessive failure isn't fun.  I want to be good enough to inspire confidence in my actions, but not so good necessarily that it loses all challenge or dramatic tension.  The threshholds change from game to game, and what constitutes success may change from game to game, but the one thing that remains in all of them is that I don't want to feel like a complete fucking putz.

I rather like special powers, not that they have to be the elite of the elite, or anything just something out of the mundane. I have played in fantastic horror-psychic games where the psychics "sense" a tiny bit more than the normal people, and to great effect it was used to investigate, face the horror, or even for the GM to build on the horror (especially as the psychics could feel things "out there" moving but not locate them specifically.)

But for me, I live in the real world, I don't want to play in it.  That doesn't mean the PC's have to be the ones with cool powers--I mean Call of Cthulhu can have mundane people against massively monstrous bleeds in reality creatures--and that's enough for me.

For me kewl powerz are stuff that doesn't really exist.  Being a highly trained soldier is not a cool power, I've met those guys and that for me takes it outside the realm of kewl powerz.

Kewl powerz are stuff that doesn't really exist.

For me, it rarely adds to a game.  Used in small doses it can work well, but all too often they become the point with the possession of kewl powerz taking the place of actual character.

Well, I don't have that many in real life, so I'll welcome them in a game.  I think J Arcane nailed it.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalYes... yes it does.  I'm sorry.

Jeez, man, did you have to tell it like it is?

QuoteI find them tiresome and they instantly bog down any game they feature in.  In the case of Exalted they turn a quite nicely put together system into a nightmare of page flipping and rule interpretation.

That's an Exalted thing. and to a degree, a Vampire et al thing. Too many powerz with too many numbers and descriptions to remember.

QuoteI've never really liked super heros and I definitely don't like that vibe infecting other genres.

I've successfully converted your kind before.

The "Superhero Vibe" a problem?

I dislike powers that are poorly defined (apparently because to define is to limit, and limitations are unkewl), so that the interaction between opposing kewl powerz amounts to a bunch of handwaving, and/or the game itself depends on the self-restraint of those endowed with powerz.

I especially dislike the escalative arms races between certain powerz: divination and anti-divination, magical attacks and magical immunities, etc. It's boring. You might as well not have kewl powerz at all if it turns into the story of "the old lady who swallowed a fly"...as it were. In fact I'd say that if the strongest powerz are not those which form the "backbone" of the game at the lowest level, but instead the powerz are layered on in such a way that the "baseline" powerz cease to be relevant after a few cycles of growth through powerz, then there's a serious problem with the game.

This points to three ways of properly doing powerz.

1) Kewl Powerz should never dominate the game. Instead they should act as enhancements or force multipliers.
2) Kewl Powerz should be limited in effect & duration, and should carry a cost that limits their efficiency.
3) Kewl Powerz should work like rock-scissors-paper instead of rock-bigger rock-biggest rock.

Quote from: J ArcaneI like my character to be damn good at what he does.  

Now, what manefestation that skill takes, and on what level, depends entirely on genre.  

In a DBZ game, being damn good might mean being able to blow up planets.

In D&D it might mean a rogue/assassin who can stick a dagger straight through your kidney before you realize he's even there, or it might mean a sorceror who can throw giant balls of fire from his hands.

And in a game of Recon where the players are greenhorns in Vietnam, it might just mean being able to hit the broadside of a barn, and not pissing my pants at the first sign of a firefight.

In CoC, it might just mean escaping the great and unspeakable evil with only a mild case of paranoid schizophrenia.

Excessive failure isn't fun.  I want to be good enough to inspire confidence in my actions, but not so good necessarily that it loses all challenge or dramatic tension.  The threshholds change from game to game, and what constitutes success may change from game to game, but the one thing that remains in all of them is that I don't want to feel like a complete fucking putz.

Well, damn, once again someone encapsulates my views and expresses them better than I could. Spot on.

I also don`t think military power qualifies as kewl p0wer. There is a certain down to earthness, and much more plausability involved.
It`s a power fantasy, but one that needs much background data and thinking as well as specialist knowledge to be meaningful.
It needs more effort and the rewards are different than playing a Juicer in RIFTS.
I like both.

Kewl powerz roxxor, which is why I will never make a Limbo Fever character without Double Jointed.

Quote from: flyingmiceI tend to get bored by too high a power level. I vastly prefer Batman to Superman, Iron Man to Thor.

Yeah and Batman and Iron Man have no Kewl Powerz. :rolleyes:

Quote from: BagpussYeah and Batman and Iron Man have no Kewl Powerz. :rolleyes:

Strictly speaking, those two have "kewl t0yz" instead...