Anyone know how reliable this site is with its reporting?

Strong Spring Strengthens Game Retailers
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/10758.html

ICv2 Top Five CCGs

   1.
      Pokemon
   2.
      Yu-Gi-Oh!
   3.
      Magic:  The Gathering
   4.
      World of Warcraft
   5.
      Naruto

ICv2 Top Five CMGs

   1.
      Star Wars CMG
   2.
      Dungeons and Dragons Miniatures
   3.
      HeroClix
   4.
      Pirates
   5.
      Axis and Allies

ICv2 Top Five Non-Collectible Miniature Games

   1.
      Warhammer 40,000
   2.
      WarMachine
   3.
      Hordes
   4.
      Dark Heavens Legends
   5.
      Battlefield Evolution

ICv2 Top Five Board, Card, and Family Games

   1.
      Settlers of Catan
   2.
      Ticket to Ride
   3.
      Carcassonne
   4.
      Munchkin
   5.
      Formula De

ICv2 Top Five RPGs

   1.
      Dungeons & Dragons
   2.
      Mutants & Masterminds
   3.
      World of Darkness
   4.
      Exalted
   5.
      Scion

Quote from: RockViper2.
      Mutants & Masterminds

Hey, that's a surprise to me. It's really that popular?

Quote from: SosthenesHey, that's a surprise to me. It's really that popular?

Yup, it's so popular locally that one our local stores is sponsoring  multiple M&M campaigns throughout the summer.

I wouldn't be surprised that if 90% of all people playing supers games right now are playing M&M. From what I understand , WotC canceling their supers games was largely due to the market share that M&M already had.

Quote from: McrowYup, it's so popular locally that one our local stores is sponsoring  multiple M&M campaigns throughout the summer.

I wouldn't be surprised that if 90% of all people playing supers games right now are playing M&M. From what I understand , WotC canceling their supers games was largely due to the market share that M&M already had.

Wait, are you saying that a game can force the vaunted WotC marketing machine out of a sector by it's sheer awesomeness? That people who might have played the WotC's supers game might have decided to learn a new rule system and ignore the entry costs of a new game?

No..I deny this has happened!

Sorry threadjack...just struck me as an interesting data point in other ongoing discussions...

Nothing to see in this post...move along people...nothing to see here..

Quote from: James J SkachWait, are you saying that a game can force the vaunted WotC marketing machine out of a sector by it's sheer awesomeness? That people who might have played the WotC's supers game might have decided to learn a new rule system and ignore the entry costs of a new game?

It's certainly the first time I can think of WotC possibly cancelling a product because of competition.

Quote from: McrowIt's certainly the first time I can think of WotC possibly cancelling a product because of competition.

Everway?
Ars Magica?
Talislanta?
(SLA Industries?)

They cancelled a whole product department because of the competition.

Quote from: Dirk RemmeckeEverway?
Ars Magica?
Talislanta?
(SLA Industries?)

They cancelled a whole product department because of the competition.

Talislanta was before D&D 3.0
Ars Magica was before D&D 3.0
Everway was before D&D 3.0
IIRC, SLA industries was published by Nightgall Games

WotC was not the big dog in RPGs before D&D 3.0

Quote from: McrowYup, it's so popular locally that one our local stores is sponsoring  multiple M&M campaigns throughout the summer.

I wouldn't be surprised that if 90% of all people playing supers games right now are playing M&M. From what I understand , WotC canceling their supers games was largely due to the market share that M&M already had.

That's not true. Spectaculars was cancelled (and replaced with d20M Dark Matter, I think) due to scheduling issues. There simply wasn't time or manpower to do it right. IIRC, a combination of D&D freelancer turnovers that never were and a few projects placed on the schedule out of the blue sank it.

FWIW, I don't trust ICv2's rankings, particularly when it comes to rankings like this. For instance, if ICv2 gets their data from Alliance, that will skew M&M upward, since Alliance handles warehousing for all of GR's stuff.

This is also the same source that had WHFRP as the #2 RPG in their lists for a while, and now it's nowhere to be found. The last Comics & Game Retailer listing I saw had in the mid-teens.

Now, all that said, M&M is one of the top 5 RPGs out there. I just don't think it's outselling every WW game out there.

Quote from: mearlsThat's not true. Spectaculars was cancelled (and replaced with d20M Dark Matter, I think) due to scheduling issues. There simply wasn't time or manpower to do it right. IIRC, a combination of D&D freelancer turnovers that never were and a few projects placed on the schedule out of the blue sank it.

I stand corrected.

QuoteNow, all that said, M&M is one of the top 5 RPGs out there. I just don't think it's outselling every WW game out there.

It's definitely the best Supers game, but yeah I find it hard to believe that it is outselling WW.

I don't know, Mike. Superheroes is a genre CONSPICUOUSLY absent from WoTC's D20 repertoire.  Given the juggernaut that is M&M, that makes me pretty suspicious of any claim that WoTC just had "scheduling issues".  I mean, that may be true... but its also true that there's no Superhero game from WoTC (when they've done just about every other major genre), and there doesn't seem to be any plan to make one.

RPGPundit

Pundit, you haven´t got your conspiracies right:

There is no WotC Super´s Game, because of HeroClix.


The circle has closed, now I´m the Master!

I'd agree with Mearls. While I've no doubt M&M does well enough, I just don't think there's enough concrete, indisputable data out there to get a good read on what's really at the top (aside from D&D), even when you're just looking at hobby stores.

Quote from: mearlsFWIW, I don't trust ICv2's rankings, particularly when it comes to rankings like this. For instance, if ICv2 gets their data from Alliance, that will skew M&M upward, since Alliance handles warehousing for all of GR's stuff.

100% agree. Alliance didn't distribute Shadowrun in the past (*), prompting ICv2 to claim that SR4 "died a dog's death" in 2005. Funny how a dead book is on its fourth printing and won two Ennies...

Really, the only thing that these "rankings" can prove is that D&D is still king, and only because it's way beyond any margin of error.

(*) Catalyst Game Labs and Alliance signed a deal on June 21st.