Quote from: Nicephorus;386566I skimmed but it did read like that.  CNN has sunk quite a bit in the last couple of years.  I've noticed a few articles that were opinion pieces from people who just happened to have a book coming out.  They also try to pass blog entries as news.

And "entertainment tonight" crap as news, too.

As much as I may hate 4e; Encounters really can't be considered anything other than a rousing success, at least locally anyhow.

And shit, we might try recruiting a few of the players to play nWoD Changeling which we will be running when Encounters ends anyhow.  We might get 1-2 folks.

Though Maw?  You still suck shit you goddamned consumer whore fanboy pigfucker.  Stop being such a fucking assgoblin about a consumer product you have no genuine economic stake in.  Thanks.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;3865764e Encounters really can't be considered anything other than a rousing success, at least locally anyhow.

Pun intended? :teehee:

I caught this article yesterday and found the comments amusing at best, pathetic at worst.

Personally, I think the whole thread is a good example why kids don't pick up RPGs nowadays. They see these old neckbeards whining and correctly decide NOT playing at least keeps that noise in their lives to a minimum.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;386520To be honest most of the negative views about 4e actually make me want to try it if only to see how wrong they really are.

It's a fun game.  I love the fantasy skirmish boardgame aspect that allows for lots of interesting and challenging tactical play.   I will be interested to see what they do with their "intro-set".

Quote from: Werekoala;386527Also, I cannot fathom trying to run this game "off the cuff" - it seems to require encounters to be heavily scripted in advance, based on levels and whatnot. I could be wrong, though.

For me, 4e adventure prep is much faster (and more enjoyable) than D20.   It is slower than OD&D and Classic Traveller prep.  

But after a year of play, I can easily prep an average encounter in 5 minutes if I need to, but I like to tinker so I usually do it in 15 minutes.

I also like to run "off the cuff" so I sat down and built out a dozen "drop anywhere" encounters than I can reskin mentally when needed.

Reskinning is your best friend in 4e.  

Quote from: Benoist;386528Maybe we'll see a digital-only edition some time in the future, with a purely subscription based model, maybe with some POD on the side. Who knows.

Maybe not 5e, but probably 6e.    I expect iPad-like comps will quickly replace laptops and e-readers.

Heck, there were several iPads at last month's Gamex convention being used by RPGers and Warhammer players.  

Quote from: Peregrin;386539Also, you can subscribe to DDI for a single month and get all of the content and updates available, and then unsubscribe and keep all of that content, since the files are stored locally on your computer.

That's a sweet deal.

Quote from: Cylonophile;386564I don't kike D&D

Neither does Helen Thomas.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;386589I caught this article yesterday and found the comments amusing at best, pathetic at worst.

Personally, I think the whole thread is a good example why kids don't pick up RPGs nowadays. They see these old neckbeards whining and correctly decide NOT playing at least keeps that noise in their lives to a minimum.

Kids??

Yeah, that's what folks on Enworld said as well. And while I agree with the sentiment on a principled basis (online discussion of RPGs surely mostly alienate newcomers) I'm struck by how removed from reality it is, factually. I mean, it assumes (1) that "kids these days" chance upon a CNN article, read it ... AND :rolleyes: will check the comments and (2) that the same kids who'll join D&D Encounters will stumble upon online RPG discussion early on in their forays into the hobby.

I mean, come on. Take any random hobby out there – roller blading, bicycling, mountain climbing, badminton, chess, or what have you. Imagine you pick up any of these as a hobby tomorrow. What makes you think that *online forums* dedicated to these will form an integral element of your enjoyment and assessment of your new hobby? Personally, I'd not even check them out. And that's even before we get into the demographic issue of whether the newcomers in question are "kids" or well beyond that (cf. my earlier post in the thread).

Seriously, once again we see people active on forums to VASTLY overestimate the impact such forums have on people not active on forums. It's ridiculous beyond belief. And thank god for that.

Quote from: Windjammer;386607Seriously, once again we see people active on forums to VASTLY overestimate the impact such forums have on people not active on forums. It's ridiculous beyond belief. And thank god for that.

Very true.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;386576As much as I may hate 4e; Encounters really can't be considered anything other than a rousing success, at least locally anyhow.

And shit, we might try recruiting a few of the players to play nWoD Changeling which we will be running when Encounters ends anyhow.  We might get 1-2 folks.

Though Maw?  You still suck shit you goddamned consumer whore fanboy pigfucker.  Stop being such a fucking assgoblin about a consumer product you have no genuine economic stake in.  Thanks.

Hey Rufus, I heard it's been a hard year for you. Hope this next year turns out better.

Quote from: Spinachcat;386594"I don't kike D&D."

Neither does Helen Thomas.

LOL Nice.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;386523I really doubt that DnD encounters somehow managed to draw media attention on its own...

Few things do. Hence press releases. PR departments. And so on.

Seanchai

Quote from: Peregrin;386529I think they're exaggerating the uselessness of the core PHB.

Indeed. I don't use the PHB as a reference for Powers, Feats, or anything character related. Those rare times when I do use it, I'm looking up what happens when you're grabbed or some other bit of minutiae.

Seanchai

Quote from: Windjammer;386607Yeah, that's what folks on Enworld said as well. And while I agree with the sentiment on a principled basis (online discussion of RPGs surely mostly alienate newcomers) I'm struck by how removed from reality it is, factually. I mean, it assumes (1) that "kids these days" chance upon a CNN article, read it ... AND :rolleyes: will check the comments and (2) that the same kids who'll join D&D Encounters will stumble upon online RPG discussion early on in their forays into the hobby...Seriously, once again we see people active on forums to VASTLY overestimate the impact such forums have on people not active on forums.

It's not just forums, however. You can find people, in real life, disagreeing about all kinds of silly game-related minutia. It's not pretty. It's not attractive.

Seanchai

Quote from: Windjammer;386607Seriously, once again we see people active on forums to VASTLY overestimate the impact such forums have on people not active on forums. It's ridiculous beyond belief. And thank god for that.

That was my vaguely implied point. The comments section isn't necessarily composed of forum-goers, it's CNN readers who happen to know about D&D and 4e. And you see there much of what you see here.

Quote from: Spinachcat;386500Every gamer should be thrilled with D&D Encounters.   It can only help the entire hobby by bringing in fresh blood.   Yes, the majority who become gamers will just stick with WotC, but some will look around the game store and ask "what else ya got?" and maybe even do so on the web.

There's nothing particularly wrong with D&D Encounters and I, personally, hope they're successful.

Unfortunately, they are another indicator that WotC is pursuing the wrong strategy in terms of growing the RPG market. You cannot compete with CRPGs by focusing on the one thing that CRPGs completely kick you ass at: Combat simulation.

CRPGs do the math for you resulting in more complex simulations and/or faster gameplay. They can be played with friends in the same room; friends around the world; complete strangers; or solo. They have fancy graphics, integrated soundtracks, and immersive sound effects. They are just flat-out better at scratching the hack 'n slash itch.

So, yeah, I hope D&D Encounters does well. But a single combat encounter that takes 1-2 hours to resolve? Yeah. You might as well hang out a banner saying, "This is not as good as World of Warcraft."

And if D&D Encounters was just one part of a larger strategy, that would be fine. But this combat-centric approach is the basket into which WotC has put all of their eggs.

If you want to compete with CRPGs, you have to focus on all of the things that PnP games can do that CRPGs can't. WotC's chosen the opposite strategy. And that's bad news for WotC. And it's bad news for the industry.

Quote from: Werekoala;386527I started playing a 4e game last Sunday (had a really good time, btw). I found it interesting that when I pulled out my PHB to look something up, I was advised by the DM and others (who have been using 4e far longer) that it was useless now since it had been "errata'd" so much.

They had completely rewritten one of the core mechanics of the game (skill challenges) within 30 days of the game being released. The sloppiness of the design on 4th Edition is pretty much undeniable.

Quote from: Peregrin;386529I think they're exaggerating the uselessness of the core PHB.

Exalted still has more errata than 4e, and the corebook served me fine for that game.

That's not actually true.

It's always kinda iffy comparing errata issued by different companies, but D&D4's core ruleboos have received nearly 3x the amount of errata that Exalted's core rulebook in terms of page count and nearly 4x as much in terms of word count.

You know, Windjammer, I would be totally wrong if people only bitched online. Except they don't. They in fact do it in person and having to explain this fact to you is kinda annoying.

Edit: Seanchai already caught this but it's good to emphasize since you quoted me and all.