In world of the politically correct, all women should wear burkhas, or they would make other women feel they are being used by a sexist because they are flaunting their body.

Quote from: danbuter;469371There is a contingent that believes any company that uses sexy women in it's advertising is sexist. No matter that those women make tons of money for just posing in front of a camera. I tack it up to jealousy and class-envy.

When I used to work for the top internet domain registrar in the world, they had ads every Super Bowl that hardcore feminists and ad critics threw a fit about every year.

Oddly, not only was the entire marketing department made up of women, but women tended to like the ads as much as men, and of course the ads always made millions and millions of dollars in new sales.

Quote from: danbuter;469379In world of the politically correct, all women should wear burkhas, or they would make other women feel they are being used by a sexist because they are flaunting their body.

Ha!  That reminds me of the time a female on RPG.NET was complaining about how a thread of other people posting pictures of themselves in tangency was causing her distress because of her own body image issues and she thought they should shut the thread down.

Even the hardcore "let's create an emotionally safe space" crowd thought that was stupid and told her no.

Quote from: Imperator;469337http://www.flickr.com/photos/octarina8/sets/72157622284027600/

Wowee, some cuties there for sure.

Unless saying so makes me sexist.

Fuck it, they're still cute. Especially the one with the amazing hazel eyes - which to be fair is all you can really see, but still.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;469353To be frank I always found you the worst offender, but that might be just me ^^

Well fair enough I talk a lot about my games but that's more because I play little else these days rather than conciously promoting them.

What I find amusing is how many of the people who pop into every "give me a system" thread yelling FATE are people writing in FATE.

It's almost Meme like.

Quote from: GRIM;469378A lot? I don't agree. Some? Perhaps. There's nothing inherently wrong with some nice cheesecake/pinup or even porn though.

Sure!  People are sexual, there's no way around that.  But then there should be no problem with someone making an RPG catering to their own aesthetic tastes, ie, an RPG about women, written for women, by women, and all that entails (I don't know because I'm not a woman).  This also indicates to me that if you're making a product aimed at both sexes, or the general public, you need to take into account that people of both persuasions are going to be reading your stuff.  White-Wolf, for all the flack they catch, did an ok job of catering to both male and female sexuality.  Or maybe your product doesn't need it (most fantasy really doesn't need pin-up style art, and most is god-awful, a la MRQII).

See, there wouldn't have been such a fit over at TBP, but there were literally dozens of guys storming into the threads going "OMG! This is offensive! Hypocrisy!  Wo how the straight man suffers!" because someone dared make a feminist RPG instead of buying one with a bunch of art meant for their male gaming friends.

So basically, some people are like "Well we're allowed!  We're guys!"  Ok -- then that's a call for women to do what they want with RPGs.  But then there are other guy going "No!  This RPG offends me!  You should buy and enjoy this product primarily marketed at me because it's not sexist, because I'm not sexist!"  So what are the girls supposed to do then if they're being told having an RPG that appeals mostly to women is bad and wrong, but then also told no one in the mainstream should have to adjust their assumptions.  

Male nerd-dom has created a lose-lose here by assuming they know what's best for women.  

Quote from: WerekoalaWowee, some cuties there for sure.

Unless saying so makes me sexist.

There's a difference between telling someone they're cute, and having a book where men are portrayed in dozens of different roles, in many unattractive poses, scarred, beaten, rogue-ish, whatever, and then having the women all prettified in perhaps one or two "appropriate" roles in the artwork.  And giving non-mammalian races tits (that's just creepy, imo).

It also has to do with the poses as well.  Is there any reason that women should naturally always take more submissive poses?  Even grim adventurers or warriors? There's a world of difference between a barbarian female obviously posed to appeal to men who like fit women, and a barbarian female posed to look tough and menacing.

Quote from: jgants;469385Ha!  That reminds me of the time a female on RPG.NET was complaining about how a thread of other people posting pictures of themselves in tangency was causing her distress because of her own body image issues and she thought they should shut the thread down.

Even the hardcore "let's create an emotionally safe space" crowd thought that was stupid and told her no.

Seriously? Wow.

Well, it is RPGNet.

Quote from: Melan;469414Well, it is RPGNet.

More and more, this statement has become synonymous with "The whole issue was just fucking stupid."

I'm getting less and less interested with the idiocy that passes for conversation there every day.

Quote from: Peregrin;469406There's a difference between telling someone they're cute, and having a book where men are portrayed in dozens of different roles, in many unattractive poses, scarred, beaten, rogue-ish, whatever, and then having the women all prettified in perhaps one or two "appropriate" roles in the artwork.  And giving non-mammalian races tits (that's just creepy, imo).

It also has to do with the poses as well.  Is there any reason that women should naturally always take more submissive poses?  Even grim adventurers or warriors? There's a world of difference between a barbarian female obviously posed to appeal to men who like fit women, and a barbarian female posed to look tough and menacing.

I have seen this problem in art across the board though. Goes through movies, comics, games, advertising, and probably even literature. It's hardly unique to RPGs, and hardly singles out RPGs as something that should be more male dominated than (say) comics, which might include even worse offenders.

Don't get me wrong, though. As an artist I share your peeve. There need to be more fat, ugly, and old people in fiction and art generally, and there need to be more maimed individuals in violent genres. For realism/verisimilitude.

EDIT: And because fat, ugly, and old people are just so much more fun to draw.

The amazing thing is that while theRPGsite gets called out as jerkwad heaven over in RPGnet's TT forum post about the incidents over there, you guys are having a totally calm and even jovial discussion that could never take place about this topic on RPGnet.

Quote from: beejazz;469420Don't get me wrong, though. As an artist I share your peeve. There need to be more fat, ugly, and old people in fiction and art generally, and there need to be more maimed individuals in violent genres. For realism/verisimilitude.

EDIT: And because fat, ugly, and old people are just so much more fun to draw.

Why the hell would I want to look at art of fat and ugly people? I see fat and ugly people everyday, their called "the public". (myself included as I ain't no model)

Quote from: Xanador;469429Why the hell would I want to look at art of fat and ugly people?

*looks at Xan's avatar, scratches head*

Yeah, Fallout should've totally had pretty people all over.  Damn those ugly mutants ruining my post-apoc game! *shakes fist*

He also said maimed/scarred people.  Basically, not necessarily super-ugly people, not idealized human beings, but human beings, particularly ones that reflect the setting.

Quote from: Xanador;469429Why the hell would I want to look at art of fat and ugly people? I see fat and ugly people everyday, their called "the public". (myself included as I ain't no model)

Some ugliness helps differentiate characters a little. I know it's not the only way, as there's more than one standard of beauty to measure by (for both genders), but Bond villains often benefit from this, as do old veteran types and what have you. And then certain characters just plain shouldn't be sexy, based on personality and background. A hot Bilbo just plain would not work for me.

Anyway, I'd certainly prefer a work with a few ugly people than a work with the bad anime/manga cliche of recycling the same face shapes with ridiculous hair (or the western equivalent of recycling the same body types under different colored spandex in supers comics).

Quote from: beejazz;469360LARPing like running around in a field with foam swords? Or LARPing like Vampire LARPing? I'd imagine that a fair portion of the former are marginally more in shape than other gamers.

Not true. Go to Origins sometime. The foam larpers are the most outrageous fatasses in the place. They want to compete in something, but they either can't run around the block or would get beat up by jocks so they take it out on little kids. Want to get pissed, try and let your 5 y/o play with them. They will whip his ass because he's the first person they ever met they can take.

The one time I went and tried it the foam larpers were beating up little girls. I got really pissed over it.

On the other hand, Vampire LARPers love dressing up and are often a little vain, so a lot of the ones I met watch what they eat and exercise some, if only just for looks.