Quote from: Caesar Slaad;477103

QuoteOriginally Posted by DanDan View Post
The way games I play are written is not, in my opinion, sexist. Although I have played an awful lot of WoD and I think that was geared a lot more towards a mixed audience. I think the racey artwork that features in lots of games is no worse for women then men. When I think about the Conan-esk dudes I've seen in a lot of games... well that can't be easy to live up to...

This is an interesting statement. Because speaking for myself personally, the answer is "of course not", because playing a super-capable badass that you aren't in real life is sort of the point of such characters.

Now is this equitable though? I know some woman resent that so many RPGs depict so many female scantily and are made uncomfortable by them. But not all women are the same. (Sort of like men that way...)

Well I am sure that I have never heard another bloke ever say that a picture of Conan or another rippling barbarian was sexist and objectified them. Even the Boris ones where you can see his enormous knob

The point really is that the blokes still own the medium of communication so even where the idea of men being objectified is on the agenda it's really been subverted. Just like the male stripper at a hen night isn't performing for the women as an object of sexual desire he is showing off and they are showing off more to get his attention, it's a different dynamic.

Quote from: TristramEvans;477124Interesting article.
If I needed some lulz I'd post it in full on Tangency.

If you posted it on Tangency, there would be a flame of epic proportions, and you'd have a good chance of being banned for "trolling".

Quote from: Claudius;477152If you posted it on Tangency, there would be a flame of epic proportions, and you'd have a good chance of being banned for "trolling".

Its the fucking truth though - I'm British, working-class (first person in my family to go to University!), mentally-ill and currently on benefits - people trying to shut me down by arguing that someone I have "privilege" can go fuck themselves with their shiny metal arses.

Quote from: Claudius;477152If you posted it on Tangency, there would be a flame of epic proportions, and you'd have a good chance of being banned for "trolling".

Hence it is not totally worth it; trolling is fun for the kids, I'm too apathetic to waste much time or effort on it these days.

Besides, now that I've thrown the idea out there, I'm sure someone will.

The entire concept of privilege is bullshit.  What it boils down to is "your opinion is invalid because you're white/heterosexual/not a freak of nature," which is, of course, incredibly racist/sexist/moronic.

I could rant on it but it's bedtime.

Quote from: Typhon;477157Its the fucking truth though - I'm British, working-class (first person in my family to go to University!), mentally-ill and currently on benefits - people trying to shut me down by arguing that someone I have "privilege" can go fuck themselves with their shiny metal arses.

To be fair, having a tertiary education and being in a position where despite being unproductive (through no fault of your own) you can still be housed and eat is, considered globally, quite a privileged position.

But so is that of the university tenured academics who came up with the idea, so...

If your life is going to be shit, you may as well be a turd floating at the top of the global cesspool.

It was an interesting article. If your refusal to acknowledge your prejudices confirms your prejudices, what would they say if I said I was prejudiced? It's absurd to pretend we have no prejudices. A prejudice is a pre-judgment - before I know any actual facts, I already have opinions about some thing or person. All of us have these about virtually every group of humans we ever heard of.

The point is not that we have prejudices, or even that we have negative feelings about these groups, but simply that in a civilised society we control these prejudices and feelings and don't let them affect our actions. It's alright for me to think (for example) that all people of gender X are shits, so long as I don't mistreat my spouse, or go around being insulting or violent to them because. And I can think that people from Upper Arsevania are all lazy good-for-nothings, so long as when hiring people at my workplace I give the Arsevanians a job interview like everyone else, and consider them on their individual merits.

Taking it back to the topic of the thread, there is certainly sexism in the rpg hobby. Many of the books are sexist, and many game groups are little Boys' Clubs. But in this it's just a reflection of our sexist culture, and I don't think it's any worse than most of it. From what I've seen, the worst aspect of it is simply that in the English-speaking West there aren't a lot of women gamers, so when one shows up, some of the boys come over all sleazy. Which is a bit creepy.

Quote from: jgants;469246As for the cheesecake art, I've never found a female who had a real issue (themselves often being big fans of beefcake covered romance novels).

The only piece of RPG art I've ever seen an actual female take offense to is the camel-toe panty-shot cover art on one of the Exalted books.

All the other women I've gamed with either enjoy the beefcake, enjoy the cheesecake (because they're lesbians), or both (because they're bisexual and/or just like looking at pretty people in general).

Quote from: DanDan;477034Funnily enough, recently the only group game I play (once a month-ish) suggested that someone might bring their new girlfriend along.
I groaned as much as all the guys.
There is something really painful about having girls join in when they have never played before. I have seen an awful lot of terrible manipulative girl behaviour when they are forced to play. It's weird and I hate it. But is that sexist?

Is that sexist?

Yes. Yes it is.

Next question.

Quote from: TristramEvans;477158Hence it is not totally worth it; trolling is fun for the kids, I'm too apathetic to waste much time or effort on it these days.

Besides, now that I've thrown the idea out there, I'm sure someone will.

Posting that article on Tangency is not trolling, but then a lot of people (there, here, and elsewhere) think that having a different opinion from theirs is trolling.

Quote from: jibbajibba;477137Well I am sure that I have never heard another bloke ever say that a picture of Conan or another rippling barbarian was sexist and objectified them. Even the Boris ones where you can see his enormous knob

Why are you paying attention to Conan's knob?  

Quote from: jeff37923;477266Why are you paying attention to Conan's knob?  

It's abit like gratuitous Knob inclusion in the Watchmen movie. It's hard to avoid noticing it when its stuck in your face, so to speak.

But I still don't worry that its sexist or that I fail to measure up to this epitome of masculinity, cos its like a drawing,  in a book ......

Quote from: Claudius;477245Posting that article on Tangency is not trolling, .

It would be if I did it.

I ve gamed with a lot of girls. Also DMed some too.They didn t seem to care much about the cheesecake art, nor the fact that women are usually incredibly hot in gaming, they even do enjoy playing the role of a seductive character with lots of good looks.

Quote from: Daniel;477276I ve gamed with a lot of girls. Also DMed some too.They didn t seem to care much about the cheesecake art, nor the fact that women are usually incredibly hot in gaming, they even do enjoy playing the role of a seductive character with lots of good looks.

Same here.

My 7th Sea group has 4 girls out of 7 players. They love beefcake, cheesecake, and all forms of cake. All their PCs tend to be über-sexy, too, with rare exceptions.

My DG game has 2 girls out of 4. Same pattern, they like to play the hot and skilled secret agents. No problem.

Actually, I can't remember any female player of mine having the least of a problem with cheesecake. Maybe we in Spain we don't give a shit

Quote from: Imperator;477282Actually, I can't remember any female player of mine having the least of a problem with cheesecake. Maybe we in Spain we don't give a shit

Nah, I'd say the majority of American females are the same way.  Most of the time, it's some guy doing the "more sensitive than thou" bit who complains about things like cheesecake art.

I've gamed with a ton of females over the years, not one has complained about sexism in gaming outside of the "my brother wouldn't let me play with him and his friends" or "my mom didn't think girls should play those games" type of issues from their youth.  

And as Daniel said, they very often play attractive characters with seductive personalities (even the ones who used male characters still want pretty and seductive character types).

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;477103I've heard some blasting of Paizo over Seoni, the iconic sorceress. But the pathfinder iconics also feature the well-clothed Kyra and Seelah. Some women on RPG blogs/forums have blasted the mere existence of Seoni, the existence of the rest of the female iconics notwithstanding. But I know that for many women I play with, Seoni is exactly the image of a character they would want to play.

I love her! (I have no idea who she is, but she looks badass!)
I think the whole point of gaming is that you make up what you like, so if you are into the whole scatily clad girls who can crush you, then you will put them in. If you want a more serious, less sexualised ideal woman, then as the player, or GM, you make one!
I love that about RP.
I have characters ranging from nympho shapshifting combat nuts through to intelectual doctors and scholars...
That's what it's all about. Making the world, earth, sky and everything between.