Quote from: RPGPundit;469931Nope. He clearly did not get it. The cleaver in his back proved it.

All that proves is that Bill couldn't take him any other way. Men may rise and fall but ideals live on, and by the end of the movie Monk had realised that the mark of the civilised man in the midst of anarchy and mayhem is the call to co-operation.

Still a rockin' avatar though.

Quote from: misterguignol;469851I would say that has less to do with feminism and more to do with the bizarre-o culture on RPG.net.  The desire for thought control, censorship, and double-standards isn't based on gender; many folks over there want it as a general rule.

I'm consistently surprised by the outcry there for stricter, more byzantine regulations about what can be said and who can say it.  For example, here's a direct quote from the Big Purp:

You're not the only one who is surprised. There is a lot of people there who think that trolling means "He says things I don't like".

Another thing that really gets me, is that often mods (with some exceptions) are more reasonable than the users. If it depended on them, just contradicting a member of the PC brigade would be enough to get a ban, after all, the PC brigadist was "provoked" and "baited".

Quote from: misterguignol;469872aaaaand the Kickstarter project that kicked-off (pun intended) this whole fracas has now been cancelled by the creator.

The funny thing is that the reason why it received so much support and it reached the goal so quickly was for purely political reasons. Only a few people were actually interested in the system (which might have been actually good, who knows!). If not for all the talk of feminism, privilege, inclusiveness, transexualism, etc, nobody would have given a fuck. This taught me a valuable lesson, if I ever write an RPG and go to rpg.net to publicize it, I'll have to say that I'm a Nenets Samoyed and I'm bothered by the lack of Samoyeds in gaming books, or that my sexual preferences include sodomizing chickens. Otherwise, nobody will show any interest in my game, no matter how good it is.

The second lesson, after seeing how quickly the whole project tanked, is that drama is detrimental to any serious project, and that all this shit was more about making a political statement than an actual good game.

Much as I HATE to take the moral high ground on this issue since Kynn is an Arcturan Mega-Cunt and it would be delicious to put the boot in more firmly...

These accusations are just accusations at the moment. Innocent until proven guilty, false until proven true, logic and reason demand evidence to support a conclusion and 'witnesses' are notoriously shit for giving decent hard data. The burden of proof rests upon the accuser and while I think people should know about these charges and while I can believe them of the accused we should keep that in mind. Even if Kynn would never extend the benefit of the doubt to others and would rather rabble-rouse and raise internet lynch mobs him/herself.

Rape is a serious allegation, but whether true or not it HAS shaken loose a huge amount of hypocrisy in the feminist posters and their white knights and the policies at RPGnet. It has shown up Kynn and other's double-standards and exposed them using much of what they would consider 'excuses', 'deflecting' etc if this were a 'normal' circumstance.

I hope the truth comes out, whatever it is, and that some people involved in these gender-wars come out of it with some appreciation for how devastating the mere accusation of rape can be, the value of following a chain of evidence rather than gut reactions and more sensitivity for the protests and objections from the 'other side' on many of these issues.

Personally, I'm still not seeing any real sexism at all in the hobby.

So far, the only argument I've seen suggesting "sexism" all boil down to "there's some art that shows women as sexy", which is a pretty lame argument for sexism. To call that sexist is, frankly, bordering on the absurd.

If anything, RPGs one of the least sexist hobbies in the world. Not to mention one of the very few that's tried to do anything about being more inclusive of the LGBT community.

Personally, I always thought one of the hobby's more annoying aspects was its constant attempts to be politically correct.

Quote from: RPGPundit;469926No, what you seem most interested in is trying to cling on to any excuse to avoid having to address your own pathetic PC beliefs; being stuck in the hard place of having to either disavow feminism or defend a politic of censorship you know will leave everyone here opposed to you.

RPGPundit

Haha, no.

This thread is a trainwreck that, as I said, has nothing to do with feminism and more to do with the need of various sexist posters (including you, you sexist) to enact the misogynistic abuse they're prevented by social norms from hurling at women in real life.

You haven't actually demonstrated some necessary connection between feminism and censorship (and indeed there isn't) you've merely asserted that there is one.

Well, bully for you, but there isn't. I am a feminist, and I don't agree with censorship. On the other hand, you are a censor, and you have banned Seanchai, so your arguments about censorship here can be seen for the self-serving, sophistic bullshit they are.

Quote from: Talking_Muffin;469922Whoa, I learned on RPG.net that you can't have fun unless you're pushing an agenda and making others miserable by flaunting your privilege!

I learned on RPGSite that there are a lot of misogynistic assholes around here. If you can't handle the idea of women expecting to be treated as equals, then you're the problem.

And your post is doubly funny on a forum with RPGPundit, who honestly believes that anyone with an opinion different from his or the RPGSite Hivemind is part of some conspiracy or only done for "hipster credit".

As a side note: If you think you guys are so much better than RPGNet, just remember this: you're on a forum where RPGPundit banned someone and called him a cunt because that person dared point out (correctly, I might add) that Pundit's playstyle isn't too different from that of his hated "Swine", and then also correctly pointed out that when someone disagrees with Pundit he flips out like a two-year-old denied a candy bar because someone DARED QUESTION THE ALMIGHTY PUNDIT because how dare anyone disagree with him?

Quote from: Koltar;469889Mild call of bullshit on that.

Most people recognize cheesecake or 'pin-up' art as what it is. Heck, my old co-worker?  She LIKED Pin-up artwork  if it was done in a classy way. (Like 1940s-style artwork)

Woah there, Klingon Kowboy.  I didn't say that sexy=sexist, I said that helpless=sexist.  Big difference.

And I'll be the first to admit that examples of games where women are generally portrayed as helpless are pretty scarce on the ground.

Quote from: GRIM;469940These accusations are just accusations at the moment.

Something people should definitely remember. However other non-disputed details also came to light and most certainly affected how many people felt about the project.

If you're a guy who wants to dress like a woman and cruise for women who dress like men - awesome. Whatever. That's your business. Maybe cut other guys a bit more slack though...

Quote from: FunTyrant;469949As a side note: If you think you guys are so much better than RPGNet, just remember this: you're on a forum where RPGPundit banned someone and called him a cunt because that person dared point out (correctly, I might add) that Pundit's playstyle isn't too different from that of his hated "Swine", and then also correctly pointed out that when someone disagrees with Pundit he flips out like a two-year-old denied a candy bar because someone DARED QUESTION THE ALMIGHTY PUNDIT because how dare anyone disagree with him?

And yet it's STILL lightyears better than RPGnet.

Mmm, deliciously telling.

Can't say I've seen much in the way of misogyny here save, perhaps ironically, some parts of BT's comment but hey, throw around that accusation freely as though it'll carry the same weight it does here as RPGnet if you really feel like it.

As to the censorship and feminism cross pollination both social and moderated censure does occur on that basis at The Big Purple Wall of Fail as even a cursory cruising of closed threads and trouble tickets will reveal.

Quote from: RPGPundit;469866Hmm, I see. So you don't want to address how rpg.net's recent moderation policies actually make feminism look really fucking bad?

Incidentally, I would say I do have quite a bit of leg to stand on; the fact that both rpg.net and therpgsite ban inveterate trolls who are intentionally out to disrupt threads doesn't change the fact that they also ban a shitload of other people for other reasons, and we don't. Its like saying that Canada has no right to criticize Zimbabwe's legal system because Canada and Zimbabwe both arrest arsonists.

Note that therpgsite has banned ONE person in the last 8-12 months.  
RPG.net has banned something like 11 people in the last 4 days alone.

Not to mention that I think that I get some pretty solid ground to stand on based on the fact that people can call me an ass-scab on this forum and not get banned for it; whereas on RPG.net people can't say that men are occasionally discriminated against without being censored.

RPGPundit

I do not wish to contribute to this trainwreck of a thread; however, much like walkerp, the ban of Seanchai has absolutely no justification, and flies in the face of your stated principles. He was a contentious git like most of us here, but did not "disrupt threads" any more than other users. While disruption is a useful umbrella clause in weeding out the absolute shitheads who ruin open discussion without formally breaking the rules, it also opens a possibility for the abuse of power, which in my opinion was the case here. I consider your decision to have been made on the basis of personal grudges. And even a single instance of abuse is one too many.

Therefore, I request that Seanchai's ban be reversed.

Quote from: FunTyrant;469949And your post is doubly funny on a forum with RPGPundit, who honestly believes that anyone with an opinion different from his or the RPGSite Hivemind is part of some conspiracy or only done for "hipster credit".

As a side note: If you think you guys are so much better than RPGNet, just remember...

A) I'm not part of any hivemind. Never have been, Never will be.

B) Most of us here are better than RPGNet for the following reasons...

     1) We have better morale standards, know right from wrong, and act accordingly, unlike many individuals and many of the mods on that site.

     2) Banning is practiced here... for stalking and personal direct attacks. Just because you can say anything you want here, doesn't mean you should.

     3) If in doubt, remember the golden rule... Do No Harm. Gaming is supposed to be about fun stuff, not about pushing the limits to the very edge just to see how far you can push. You want to push the limits, go hang out with James Dean, we are kinda busy here making RPGs as fun and engaging as possible, each in our own way.

     4) I personally don't post much on RPG net because the mods there deleted some of my posts that were critical of other game designers. Aside from the fact that designers are unable to learn and improve in an environment where their preconceptions stand unchallenged. Just the fact that they would alter or remove my posts means that they are advancing some agenda without any regard for me. No reason for me to post anyway if my posts won't stand as written.

Most of us here, don't spend our time finger-pointing as we have other things to do. The Pundit does it though,and you can think of him as a tour guide, pointing out all the reckless game designers that do damage to the hobby rather than providing the gaming community as a whole benefits.

If you are deliberately trying to damage RPG gaming, you might not be welcome here. As a person who often has to speak to the parents of gamers... and routinely overcome that natural prejudice, that stigmata that results from an entire host of non-gaming retards that misinformed young Billy's mom and dad, when it comes to RPG games, You'll find me less than sympathetic to the plight of an individual game designer here, especially if they are advocating a game designed to twist young Billy's mind in some primeval fashion that lends a hand to unethical or immoral behavior.

Young Billy is going to find reasons all by himself to be unethical or immoral if he wants to... Game designers don't need to be helping him with that... in any way.

Quote from: The Traveller;469933All that proves is that Bill couldn't take him any other way.

Bill didn't have to take him any other way.
And let's remember that Monk won the election just because his side stuffed more ballot boxes and committed more organized electoral fraud.

Bill understood that this was the way to the end of greatness, and the running of the world by the "lukewarm".

RPGPundit

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;469948. I am a feminist, and I don't agree with censorship.

Really? Then do you denounce the recent policy changes at RPG.net that prohibit the raising of men's issues in feminist threads, while still explicitly permitting feminists to raise up women's issues in male threads?

Will you come out and say that this policy is basically thought control?

RPGPundit

Quote from: FunTyrant;469949I
As a side note: If you think you guys are so much better than RPGNet, just remember this: you're on a forum where RPGPundit banned someone and called him a cunt because that person dared point out (correctly, I might add) that Pundit's playstyle isn't too different from that of his hated "Swine"

That's an entertainingly utterly false interpretation of the facts.

The fact is, I banned someone for a prolonged campaign of trolling and wanton thread-derailment.

Lots of people have dared to question and disagree with me, on this very thread. Almost none of them are in danger of banning.

But you know, someone named "FunTyrant", who only ever seems to post on this site to point out how terrible I am, who now seems to want to derail the topic of this thread to continue a personal anti-pundit crusade, that sounds like someone who could be banned.  And I'm pretty sure that even less people would shed a tear were I to ban you, a 46-post wonder with virtually no significant participation in this forum, than were shed for Seanchai, a vicious troll who nevertheless had racked up thousands of posts, many of them representative of an actual participation in the forum, however flawed.

So you can take this as a warning. My motherfucking knife is out, its tasted blood, and your underbelly looks particularly soft.

RPGPundit