Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.

Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.

Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.

100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.

Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.

Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.

100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.

To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly. 

Quote from: Krugus on March 26, 2022, 06:22:49 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.

Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.

Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.

100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.

To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly.

And most probably already own enough games for the next three generations of their family to play regularly for at least 50 years.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 26, 2022, 06:26:29 PM

Quote from: Krugus on March 26, 2022, 06:22:49 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.

Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.

Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.

100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.

To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly.

And most probably already own enough games for the next three generations of their family to play regularly for at least 50 years.

Yup! I might have about 4000 RPG PDFs (mostly from sales and bundles) that I will never be able to read let alone play... AND I published my own RPG, in addition to house rules etc.

Nowadays I find good critique to be more valuable than new games.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: tenbones on March 23, 2022, 10:43:04 AM

Quote from: pawsplay on March 23, 2022, 12:53:29 AM

If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.

Is that "exoticism" or something that an old-man and his friends that have no deep understanding of the cultures they're trying to invoke outside of pop-culture of the 80's? I'm Asian, and I can tell you right now, the ***only*** people offended by Oriental Adventures in the 80's, that were vocal about it were white people that had their own fetish for the Asian cultures that weren't "properly represented to their magical standard. It wasn't even a racial thing - back then. Of course today by leftist standards, what isn't racist?

Did it have a lot of silly stuff in there? YES! Gloriously YES. It's got more to do with Kurosawa films than actual Japanese Culture. It has more to do with Black-Belt Theater than actual Chinese Gung Fu. The bizarre decisions were obvious to anyone back then when one could count on 2 fingers how many Asian RPG's were floating around contextually.

The Kara-tur Boxset was even better (and more "culturally analog-accurate" despite playing fast and loose with time-periods) - written by Mike Pondsmith no less.

Edit: I should note - White Wolf did the *exact* same thing with their Kindred of the East. Including making up "Asian sounding" names for their content... and the people that were most offended were other white folks.

But this whole idea of a game writting by POC's who of course are all Alphabet Allies (otherwise they wouldn't have the job) - is not even honest, in that they do not represent THOSE cultures. They're LARPing that shit. Personally I would never work for such a project that had me on for "representation" - GTFO with that shit. (and it's actually happened)

Again - this is a game not aimed at me and *nothing* about it surprises me. Pet POC's of Wokesters looking for clout in TTRPG's is like the casting couch of old Hollywood. Same dynamic.

This "setting" sounds about as fun as making a Chia-pet out of a stranger's dog-turd.

People who obsess over cultural appropriation are rarely members or even adjacent to said culture.

Definitely true. Particularly true for native American cultural appropriation complaints.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Spoken like a True Defender of the Sparkly Safe Space. Ride on, o' White Knight!

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Not that I'm alt-right...

Although, that tactic seems to have been done waaay before we did it. And interestingly enough, most of the designers who were trying to ruffle feathers back in the day were doing it before all this political correctness infected the hobby.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers.

There is, though: the D&D brand. At least by some definitions of the term, branding is literally magic, and lifestyle brands are religions in all but name.

Speaking from personal experience, realizing you can no longer identify with a brand because they've finally crossed some line you won't put up with is actually a kind of miniature version of the experience of losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.

Except D&D is not a "lifestyle" brand yet, and likely never will be.

WOTC can say this all they want. But they lack the resources and the will to make it so. Instead they point at fan creations. You know, the things that have been around from near the start. And declare these "lifestyle". And monetize it if they can. And the morons here fall for it. You are puppets dancing to WOTCs strings. Again. Free advertising.

If anything WOTC has so far put out LESS than TSR ever did. Possibly 90% or more is done by other groups they allow to or license to.
TSR had colouring books, colourforms, kids books, toys, action figures, freaking D&D candy! What does WOTC have that isnt made by someone else? A few PDF colouring books and maybe a kids book set?

"Lifestyle" has no meaning. It is just another trendy buzzword to chirp.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 12:08:30 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Spoken like a True Defender of the Sparkly Safe Space. Ride on, o' White Knight!

What safe space? I'm HERE, aren't I? You need no more evidence that I am no defender of safe spaces.

I think what I said is true. I think Crawford and some others at WOTC enjoy tweaking off alt-right people with their comments. In very much the same way many on the alt-right enjoy tweaking off SJW. Do you disagree, or are you just going to dodge that question again?

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 01:22:07 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Not that I'm alt-right...

Although, that tactic seems to have been done waaay before we did it. And interestingly enough, most of the designers who were trying to ruffle feathers back in the day were doing it before all this political correctness infected the hobby.

I agree. The alt-right (for lack of a better term) is newer at this than the progressive crowd.  Rush used to do it a bit, but really Ben Shapiro really led the charge on it for the right.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 02:15:39 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.

Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...

No you just made a false inference. They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.