I remember reading somewhere that the githyanki took one look at Athas and said, 'Yeah, that's... a bit more work than we wanna deal with.'

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.

They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!

Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.

Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?

Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon.  So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief. 

A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore.  During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.

They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!

Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.

Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?

Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon.  So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief. 

A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore.  During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!

Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 24, 2022, 03:56:43 AM

Quote from: AtomicPope on March 24, 2022, 02:50:55 AM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 02:36:24 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'

Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.

WHY.

It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.

If they were following Athas' setting rules then it should not be accessible. Even demon summoning was supposed to be hard if recall right.

I was just about to say this but got thread ninja'd.

There is a zone surrounding Athas called "The Gray", which prevented travel.  You couldn't use a Spelljammer to get there, nor could you use Astral or Planar travel.

It was portrayed as rare and difficult. I imagine because frequent (relative term) planar travel to Athas would disrupt some of the setting elements.
But not impossible.

If I recall right. Spelljammer states that Athas is possbly reachable. But it is so far removed from the normal lanes that it is unlikely anyone will ever find it. I believe it stated that summoning planar beings was possible. But they pretty much always refuse due to the high risk of being stranded and cut off there.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 03:05:50 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.

They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!

Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.

Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?

Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon.  So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief. 

A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore.  During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!

Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.

It really was. I am always amazed at the things first time players will try. They often think outside the box where veteran players cannot.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 04:33:03 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 03:05:50 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.

They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!

Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.

Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?

Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon.  So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief. 

A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore.  During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!

Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.

It really was. I am always amazed at the things first time players will try. They often think outside the box where veteran players cannot.

You would need to witness what my group gets up to. Only one of us is what you'd call a noob, coming onto 2 years since he started playing.

Can we please start calling the Radiant Citadel what it is?

A Sparkly Safe Space.

Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 12:29:37 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
gay prom.

Sorry, but no gay prom = a no buy from me. So, they had better put one in.

There'll probably be a Gay Dia De Los Muertos. Because everyone knows all "Latinxes" are super pro-LGBT pagan death-worshippers.

In case anyone missed the other thread:

The new #dnd5e #RadiantCitadel book promises no intrigues, no lurking monsters, no gritty crime-ridden streets, and "Diversity"! Which means lazy utopian stereotypes and no Caucasian game designers.
... Well, actually, almost none.
#dnd #ttrpg

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.

The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.

They want people to bitch about it.

Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.

Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?

Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.

Think about it.

How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?

That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 

But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.

It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...

How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?

Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...

How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?

What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.

And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.

Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.

Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.

Well that's cynical as hell.  Will people only become good if they're forced to do so?  My personal experience says no.

So I think I'll ramble a bit ...  A utopia is a place without problems.  Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia.  The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia. 

But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well.  First there needs to be general agreement on what is good.  This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations.  So that's at least theoretically possible. 

The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will.  Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think.  And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave.  And I think that covers it.  None of that violates free will or requires mind control.

Does utopia need to be policed?  Sure, but so does any society.  No mind reading is necessary.  Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience.  And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.

Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.

Think about it.

How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?

That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 

But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.

It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...

How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?

Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...

How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?

What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.

And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.

Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.

Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.

Well that's cynical as hell.  Will people only become good if they're forced to do so?  My personal experience says no.

So I think I'll ramble a bit ...  A utopia is a place without problems.  Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia.  The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia. 

But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well.  First there needs to be general agreement on what is good.  This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations.  So that's at least theoretically possible. 

The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will.  Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think.  And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave.  And I think that covers it.  None of that violates free will or requires mind control.

Does utopia need to be policed?  Sure, but so does any society.  No mind reading is necessary.  Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience.  And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.

The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?

Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.

Think about it.

How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?

That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 

But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.

It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...

How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?

Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...

How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?

What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.

And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.

Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.

Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.

Well that's cynical as hell.  Will people only become good if they're forced to do so?  My personal experience says no.

So I think I'll ramble a bit ...  A utopia is a place without problems.  Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia.  The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia. 

But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well.  First there needs to be general agreement on what is good.  This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations.  So that's at least theoretically possible. 

The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will.  Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think.  And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave.  And I think that covers it.  None of that violates free will or requires mind control.

Does utopia need to be policed?  Sure, but so does any society.  No mind reading is necessary.  Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience.  And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.

The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?

More importantly, how do they keep the Kender out of the Sparkly Safe Space?

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:00:24 PM
Can we please start calling the Radiant Citadel what it is?

A Sparkly Safe Space.

ain't that the gawds own truth