Just spotted this over at ENWorld about the latest 5E book of adventures from Wokesie.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/heres-a-look-at-3-adventures-from-the-radiant-citadel.686848/
One of the adventures is called "Written in Blood" that is "Based on the black experience in the Southern US".
*SIGH* This stuff is starting to write itself...
Hey the link does not work.
Sorry. Should be fixed now,
A link at the start of that thread post goes to a separate thread that provides more details and a peak at actual discussions of it.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-next-d-d-book-is-journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel.686847/
Mostly mindless drones drooling themselves over this uninspired crap, but this one by the third page made me smile:
QuoteSo, a Planescape for Zoomers, which is supposed to be magical and otherworldly but seems largely similar to California in the current year?
Well, at least they are not ruining Sigil like they have ruined Ravenloft and making an umpteenth attempt to create an off-brand interplanar metropolis, I'll give them that.
Eh, looks like the natural evolution of modern D&D.
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:49:02 AM
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
This isn't written for kids. Kids LIKE adventure. They like violence and excitement and danger. I don't know who this was written for.
From the Polygon article:
Unlike other cities from the modern D&D lore — places like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep — the Radiant Citadel isn't overrun by crime lords, demons, or mind flayers. Instead, it's a place where people can live together in peace.
"The Radiant Citadel is not a place of backstabbing, and lurking monsters, and crime just around the corner," George said. "The Radiant Citadel was meant to give players a real hope, a respite, a place to regroup and rebuild after facing the worst and most tragic challenges [...] where they could launch incredible stories and adventures [across the multiverse]."
I can understand not having combat because you're adverse to the often overcomplicated time-consuming combat typical of RPGs or prefer to use stealth, charisma or smarts instead. I can understand being rationally afraid of combat in reality because your life is really in danger and even if you survive you may be stuck with PTSD.
But being this terrified of fictional combat, which is often such a chore to slough through that all tension is lost after the first hour or so trying to resolve a single encounter? Being this terrified that not everyone in an imaginary game setting aren't perfect saints who want for nothing? What the hell is wrong with these people?
Quote from: Accaris on March 22, 2022, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:49:02 AM
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
This isn't written for kids. Kids LIKE adventure. They like violence and excitement and danger. This is written for infantilized, emotionally fragile 5E tourists.
From the Polygon article:
Unlike other cities from the modern D&D lore — places like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep — the Radiant Citadel isn't overrun by crime lords, demons, or mind flayers. Instead, it's a place where people can live together in peace.
"The Radiant Citadel is not a place of backstabbing, and lurking monsters, and crime just around the corner," George said. "The Radiant Citadel was meant to give players a real hope, a respite, a place to regroup and rebuild after facing the worst and most tragic challenges [...] where they could launch incredible stories and adventures [across the multiverse]."
Having run games for kids, can confirm that kids LOVE adventures.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 22, 2022, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: Accaris on March 22, 2022, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:49:02 AM
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
This isn't written for kids. Kids LIKE adventure. They like violence and excitement and danger. This is written for infantilized, emotionally fragile 5E tourists.
From the Polygon article:
Unlike other cities from the modern D&D lore — places like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep — the Radiant Citadel isn't overrun by crime lords, demons, or mind flayers. Instead, it's a place where people can live together in peace.
"The Radiant Citadel is not a place of backstabbing, and lurking monsters, and crime just around the corner," George said. "The Radiant Citadel was meant to give players a real hope, a respite, a place to regroup and rebuild after facing the worst and most tragic challenges [...] where they could launch incredible stories and adventures [across the multiverse]."
Having run games for kids, can confirm that kids LOVE adventures.
Having been a kid, can also confirm.
Quote from: AnthonyRoberson on March 22, 2022, 10:17:19 AM
Just spotted this over at ENWorld about the latest 5E book of adventures from Wokesie.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/heres-a-look-at-3-adventures-from-the-radiant-citadel.686848/
One of the adventures is called "Written in Blood" that is "Based on the black experience in the Southern US".
*SIGH* This stuff is starting to write itself...
Greetings!
Thank you, Anthony Roberson, for posting this and bringing this to our attention here.
*SIGH* indeed. More stupidity, racism, and SJW-propaganda being shoved down the throats of fans and customers. So pathetic.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
Yeah, gang, of course lots of kids like danger, violence, and bloodshed. Heroism and adventure!
But come on--you know what Tenbones is talking about. The chewy, Rated G, Disneyesque, Karen-mommy-friendly bubblegum that all the parents like to believe their kids consume and exist in. The sparkly, Rated G Barney World, especially designed for sensitive, naïve, sheltered kiddies, and their equally-sheltered, sensitive, naïve parents.
That is a large and growing sub-trend of design and marketing that WOTC has been going in, and has been engaged in offering the D&D fanbase at large.
Tenbones is fucking right. More books for *kiddies*.
BARNEY D&D! The Radiant Citadel is a city designed for an entire population of woke, non-binary Barneys, sipping on their Starbucks Lattes, giggling and gossiping about their next hawt "relationship".
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
Quote from: Accaris on March 22, 2022, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:49:02 AM
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
From the Polygon article:
Unlike other cities from the modern D&D lore — places like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep — the Radiant Citadel isn't overrun by crime lords, demons, or mind flayers. Instead, it's a place where people can live together in peace.
"The Radiant Citadel is not a place of backstabbing, and lurking monsters, and crime just around the corner," George said. "The Radiant Citadel was meant to give players a real hope, a respite, a place to regroup and rebuild after facing the worst and most tragic challenges [...] where they could launch incredible stories and adventures [across the multiverse]."
That sounds incredibly BORING. Why would you adventure in a place where nothing happens and everyone holds hands and sings Kumbyeya?
The current list of WOTC authors doesn't have the testicular fortitude to write an interesting and dangerous place such as Mogidishu, Istanbul, Bogota, Los Angeles, or Manilla. Take any of those places at their worst in time and it'd be a place where adventure THRIVES.
No they would rather create a RPG version of the CHAZ instead.
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
That was actually my thought as well. Having a safe haven makes for a very nice contrast to the dangerous world. Without such, the danger can start to lose its impact. It's not as if adventurers are going to spend a ton of time there anyway - they're supposed to be off adventuring. If I were to use such a city, the players would be elsewhere all the time working to defend their home.
That's assuming I delete the agenda-platform aspect. If that remains I guarantee you that sometime during the game I would burn the place down, whether I'm DM or a player.
Most likely the agenda platform is yet another outrage marketing baiting for free advertising. Kinda sadly like what we are giving them right now.
Odds are that the book itself will have not a hint of it. Or be so small you might never notice. That way they can discredit anyone speaking up. Or have a scapegoat if it bombs. Marketing 101. And since this is a WOTC book that is near guaranteed at this point as it is their goto SOP baiting.
There's a difference between a "safe haven" and a "safe space"
If D&D wants to catch up the the fantasy/sci-fi publishing they really need to give a top award to some adventure based on consensual dinosaur fucking poetry.
Quote from: palaeomerus on March 22, 2022, 06:24:33 PM
If D&D wants to catch up the the fantasy/sci-fi publishing they really need to give a top award to some adventure based on consensual dinosaur fucking poetry.
Don't you dare sully Dr. Chuck Tingle's genius writing experiences by comparing it to WOTC drivel.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on March 22, 2022, 06:46:58 PM
Quote from: palaeomerus on March 22, 2022, 06:24:33 PM
If D&D wants to catch up the the fantasy/sci-fi publishing they really need to give a top award to some adventure based on consensual dinosaur fucking poetry.
Don't you dare sully Dr. Chuck Tingle's genius writing experiences by comparing it to WOTC drivel.
No love for the majestic condor? :'(
So help me out here. Is the new book too woke, or is it Candyland for kiddies that ignores the real world? I don't see how it could be both.
Quote from: pawsplay on March 22, 2022, 07:24:03 PM
So help me out here. Is the new book too woke, or is it Candyland for kiddies that ignores the real world? I don't see how it could be both.
Neither from the looks of it.
Its some sort of save haven and thats about all we know.
WOTC had done the usual outrage marketing bait dangling with it. But as said. Odds are its not gonna have hardly a hint of it in the actual product.
Looks like its just kinda... there... peaceful, colourful, A market, city, venue, rest stop, tavern, party, whatever.
I am curious as to exactly how they keep it that way because a place like that would attract every maniac in existence there to mess with it, subvert it, or just outright destroy it.
I am betting that theres some big reveal that the place isnt as great as it seems or that the adventures for the place fuck it all up by makeing them all combat strife and petty squabbles. Its WOTC.
It sounds like a kids TV show or something and I grew out of that shit years ago. And that's the very reason I wouldn't touch D&D with a set of asbestos gloves and steel tongs.
But whatever floats your boat...
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
Grim Jim does a nice deep dive into the utterly racist book that WOTC is putting out and the sheer drivel and hypocrisy of the company
Whatever way you feel about Jim he's spot on in this video.
Radiant Rainbows is written by Non-White's, edited by Non-Whites, and specifically telling Non-Whites "Since you'll never be published anyway we will do that for you, there there Daddy Wizard has you covered".
Every NPC will have their pronouns listed and the amount of Humans vs. EVERYTHING ELSE will be 1:10. I'll put $1 on it right now.
Quote from: Accaris on March 22, 2022, 12:06:44 PMFrom the Polygon article:
Unlike other cities from the modern D&D lore — places like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep — the Radiant Citadel isn't overrun by crime lords, demons, or mind flayers. Instead, it's a place where people can live together in peace.
Excellent! This is the
perfect place for adventurers to collect loot! Pacifists are so much easier to rob.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
I had more faith in your longevity.
But I must say that it is brilliant of WotC to save so much money by only employing coloured people to write the book. Genius! Pay them in exposure.
Greetings!
I think the "Radiant Citadel" sounds like a wonderful place!
A Genghis Khan-like figure and his Horde, or a mighty Harold Hadrada and his Viking armies would wreck this place quick!
Just imagine all the fires burning everywhere, the screaming, the sobbing, and the lamentations of the women!
Loot being carried out in long wagon trains, or trains of weird creatures, heavy-laden with the booty of the conquered!
Long queues of sobbing inhabitants, broken to the yoke of slavery. Being marched off to eternal servitude by their new masters.
*Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: tenbones on March 22, 2022, 11:49:02 AM
Eh, looks like the natural evolution of modern D&D.
I mean, kids need their RPG's too. This is not a game aimed at people like me. Not a problem.
Yup, agreed.
Oh, and this is the title of the Polygon article:
Dungeons & Dragons' next anthology is written entirely by Black and brown authors
smells of virtue signalling to me.
Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2022, 09:01:37 PM
Greetings!
I think the "Radiant Citadel" sounds like a wonderful place!
A Genghis Khan-like figure and his Horde, or a mighty Harold Hadrada and his Viking armies would wreck this place quick!
Just imagine all the fires burning everywhere, the screaming, the sobbing, and the lamentations of the women!
Loot being carried out in long wagon trains, or trains of weird creatures, heavy-laden with the booty of the conquered!
Long queues of sobbing inhabitants, broken to the yoke of slavery. Being marched off to eternal servitude by their new masters.
*Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Funny you kinda described the plot of Champion of Garathorm, iddlyic peacful island is suddenly introduced to hordes of chaos warriors, including some Melniboneans.
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
I had more faith in your longevity.
But I must say that it is brilliant of WotC to save so much money by only employing coloured people to write the book. Genius! Pay them in exposure.
I laughed.
Because it's probably true! ;D
Quote from: SHARK on March 22, 2022, 09:01:37 PM
Greetings!
I think the "Radiant Citadel" sounds like a wonderful place!
A Genghis Khan-like figure and his Horde, or a mighty Harold Hadrada and his Viking armies would wreck this place quick!
Just imagine all the fires burning everywhere, the screaming, the sobbing, and the lamentations of the women!
Loot being carried out in long wagon trains, or trains of weird creatures, heavy-laden with the booty of the conquered!
Long queues of sobbing inhabitants, broken to the yoke of slavery. Being marched off to eternal servitude by their new masters.
*Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Now I wanna see this happen. And this place is located right in the Ethereal Plane, so there's gotta be a way to open up a gate to the Elemental Planes and funnel a bunch of Fire Elementals in there and set the place ablaze.
I can already see the horde busting into the place with a witch in toe to start the necessary rituals to open up the gates while their warriors start ransacking the place to the screams of the confused masses in the middle of their baking contests armed with nothing but kitchen knives to defend themselves.
It would be glorious! 8)
What drew me to alternative campaign settings like Spelljammer and Planescape is their uniqueness, creativity, thematic elements, and flexibility. I never once had to wonder whether or not the author had the 7 pieces of flair in their bio because their works were far more important than their virtue signals. The latest book from WotC "Strixhaven" was extremely lazy, and full of poor game design and weak narrative elements. There's actually very little worth using, and I don't recommend buying it. In fact, very few of these newer products can even compare to much of the 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D supplements that I've used and ported over to every edition since. What really annoys me about this is there are great, imaginative settings and people not getting published because of this garbage. So instead we get this tokenism version of Planescape.
When newer DMs ask me how to create a campaign I always tell them, "Get the Silver Edition 'Return to the Keep on the Borderlands' and convert it. As you do you will have to make choices what to keep and what to change or throw away. Then it becomes yours." I won't be tell them to pick up 'Horde of the Dragon Queen' and just run that. It's garbage, and so is this. D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 22, 2022, 09:14:44 PM
Oh, and this is the title of the Polygon article:
Dungeons & Dragons' next anthology is written entirely by Black and brown authors
smells of virtue signalling to me.
They don't have to announce when it's written entirely by white authors, because that's usually true.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
You never played Oriental Adventures then. 8)
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Those days have long passed... No more D&D for us vile and evil 'male' honkies.
So whats next. An adventure designed by an all cripple team? I mean they cant demean and degrade us enough as is by reducing us to a check mark on a quota list or their ridiculous attempts at 'representation' by sticking wheelchairs in a dungeon. Go the extra mile WOTC.
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
So whats next. An adventure designed by an all cripple team? I mean they cant demean and degrade us enough as is by reducing us to a check mark on a quota list or their ridiculous attempts at 'representation' by sticking wheelchairs in a dungeon. Go the extra mile WOTC.
Funny you mentioned that...
https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/12/22225381/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-wheelchair-accessible
From the article:
QuoteKretchmer said., "As an ambulatory wheelchair user, I wanted people to have the opportunity to see themselves represented in-game."
Edit: like I said before, these narcissists make it all about themselves.
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
So whats next. An adventure designed by an all cripple team? I mean they cant demean and degrade us enough as is by reducing us to a check mark on a quota list or their ridiculous attempts at 'representation' by sticking wheelchairs in a dungeon. Go the extra mile WOTC.
Funny you mentioned that...
https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/12/22225381/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-wheelchair-accessible
From the article:
QuoteKretchmer said., "As an ambulatory wheelchair user, I wanted people to have the opportunity to see themselves represented in-game."
Edit: like I said before, these narcissists make it all about themselves.
Well, in fairness if I was an evil overlord I'd want to make my dungeon as accessible as possible to would-be invaders. A bit like they did with all our medieval castles, honest.
For Christ's sake can we please get a vomit emoji for the forum? Words can't truly express how shite that concept is. lol
Greetings!
You know, it's interesting. For all of WOTC's "diversity efforts"--as well as the ebullient gushing from the occasional woman or minority "author" or game-developer involved in these more recent books--the constant cascade of praise and how wonderful these books are--I have noticed a definite trend with the recent books, say, Candlekeep, Strixhaven, the Witchlight Faerie book, and more, and now, presumably, this new book as well.
They are all screamingly "fun"; trivial, and petty. Very narcissistic.
And...entirely feminine.
All of these books largely focus on a content and presentation style that appeals to women and the rainbow people.
Books filled with scenarios where gossiping, fucking, makeup, fashion, and now baking and cooking are the primary content. "Hot Messes" and "relationships" in colleges swimming in debauchery, and coffee shops. Mostly all about fluff, and hyper-personalized petty trivia.
This definitely seems like the direction WOTC has been going. Talk about changing market focuses. This is far more than just not focusing on men over 30--it's about not even focusing on men at all. As others have mentioned, like Tenbones, their new market focus seems to be rainbow people, women, and kids.
I've started to see the marketing correlations in toys, crossing over into these WOTC books. Look at the books, dolls, and toys marketed to young girls, say under 14. The smiling, the big eyes, the bright, feminine colours, the pastel tones. Toss in all the marketing prompts for the rainbow people, and this is what you have. The themes explored in these books are also increasingly shallow and candy-coated. Pretty sad.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
What drew me to alternative campaign settings like Spelljammer and Planescape is their uniqueness, creativity, thematic elements, and flexibility. I never once had to wonder whether or not the author had the 7 pieces of flair in their bio because their works were far more important than their virtue signals. The latest book from WotC "Strixhaven" was extremely lazy, and full of poor game design and weak narrative elements. There's actually very little worth using, and I don't recommend buying it. In fact, very few of these newer products can even compare to much of the 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D supplements that I've used and ported over to every edition since. What really annoys me about this is there are great, imaginative settings and people not getting published because of this garbage. So instead we get this tokenism version of Planescape.
When newer DMs ask me how to create a campaign I always tell them, "Get the Silver Edition 'Return to the Keep on the Borderlands' and convert it. As you do you will have to make choices what to keep and what to change or throw away. Then it becomes yours." I won't be tell them to pick up 'Horde of the Dragon Queen' and just run that. It's garbage, and so is this. D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Hard agree with everything except what I put in bold. Ran a campaign well over a year doing to HotDQ exactly what you described with Keep. Made the cultists actually cult-like, cruel, and pure evil. Zoomed way in on the elements. Years later still my most talked about campaign. Out of the box tho...you're absolutely right.
Quote from: pawsplay on March 22, 2022, 10:13:53 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 22, 2022, 09:14:44 PM
Oh, and this is the title of the Polygon article:
Dungeons & Dragons' next anthology is written entirely by Black and brown authors
smells of virtue signalling to me.
They don't have to announce when it's written entirely by white authors, because that's usually true.
Nah, the real reason they don't have to announce when a book is written entirely by white authors is because nobody cares.
An author's immutable characteristics have never been a factor in RPGs and nobody even checked until the people pushing this crap made it a factor. I didn't even know the guy who designed the Cyberpunk line of games was a black guy till they started promoting Cyberpunk 2077 a few years ago and it wouldn't have made a difference* if I did back in the 90s when I got Cyberpunk 2020.
Now they're handing out race specific writing assignments to match the author's race with the racial or cultural backdrop that they're writing about, which is disgusting. Now only black authors can write black characters and only Asian authors can write about Asian cultures, etc., in truly racist fashion.
*actually it might have, but only cuz Maximum Mike comes across as a cool guy with a deep narrator voice. But I wouldn't have been able to know that till I saw him in a video promoting Cyberpunk 2077, so I wouldn't have known that back in the day.
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 10:14:55 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
You never played Oriental Adventures then. 8)
I never got around it. But now I remember they had stuff like tea ceremonies and things like that in that setting. That would've been different, though, cuz that was more like an added cultural touch. But at the end of the day you were still playing a badass samurai ready to bust out his sword with lightning reflexes if enemies showed up to interrupt his tea.
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:28:08 PM
Funny you mentioned that...
https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/12/22225381/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-wheelchair-accessible
From the article:
QuoteKretchmer said., "As an ambulatory wheelchair user, I wanted people to have the opportunity to see themselves represented in-game."
Edit: like I said before, these narcissists make it all about themselves.
Even funnier is theres no such thing in the actual book far as I ever saw. It was complete baiting and false virtue signalling. Totally disgusting.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 11:49:36 PM
I never got around it. But now I remember they had stuff like tea ceremonies and things like that in that setting. That would've been different, though, cuz that was more like an added cultural touch. But at the end of the day you were still playing a badass samurai ready to bust out his sword with lightning reflexes if enemies showed up to interrupt his tea.
Actually you could be challeneged to a contest of skills like who is the better dancer (That came up in one session I GMed) or who is the better cook, or who serves tea the best. OA was great for little things like that where combat was not the focus. WOTC could have learned from it. Instead they slapped a WACIST! label on it. You know. The setting TSR got actual asian cunsultants to look over. Yeah.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 22, 2022, 11:10:46 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
What drew me to alternative campaign settings like Spelljammer and Planescape is their uniqueness, creativity, thematic elements, and flexibility. I never once had to wonder whether or not the author had the 7 pieces of flair in their bio because their works were far more important than their virtue signals. The latest book from WotC "Strixhaven" was extremely lazy, and full of poor game design and weak narrative elements. There's actually very little worth using, and I don't recommend buying it. In fact, very few of these newer products can even compare to much of the 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D supplements that I've used and ported over to every edition since. What really annoys me about this is there are great, imaginative settings and people not getting published because of this garbage. So instead we get this tokenism version of Planescape.
When newer DMs ask me how to create a campaign I always tell them, "Get the Silver Edition 'Return to the Keep on the Borderlands' and convert it. As you do you will have to make choices what to keep and what to change or throw away. Then it becomes yours." I won't be tell them to pick up 'Horde of the Dragon Queen' and just run that. It's garbage, and so is this. D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Hard agree with everything except what I put in bold. Ran a campaign well over a year doing to HotDQ exactly what you described with Keep. Made the cultists actually cult-like, cruel, and pure evil. Zoomed way in on the elements. Years later still my most talked about campaign. Out of the box tho...you're absolutely right.
Same. I have spoken before on DMing the two modules and they are actually alot of fun if you ignore certain elements and outright railroading and just let the players go at it however.
Interestingly Hoard is not a WOTC book. It was outsourced to Kobold and some of the problems with it were because the system changed during the creation of the modules.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 12:44:38 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 11:49:36 PM
I never got around it. But now I remember they had stuff like tea ceremonies and things like that in that setting. That would've been different, though, cuz that was more like an added cultural touch. But at the end of the day you were still playing a badass samurai ready to bust out his sword with lightning reflexes if enemies showed up to interrupt his tea.
Actually you could be challeneged to a contest of skills like who is the better dancer (That came up in one session I GMed) or who is the better cook, or who serves tea the best. OA was great for little things like that where combat was not the focus. WOTC could have learned from it. Instead they slapped a WACIST! label on it. You know. The setting TSR got actual asian cunsultants to look over. Yeah.
If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.
Not according to the people who worked there.
A Tanelorn type place to defend can be a great setting element. I totally distrust WoTC at this point though. And obviously there needs to be conflict.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:28:08 PM
Funny you mentioned that...
https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/12/22225381/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-wheelchair-accessible
From the article:
QuoteKretchmer said., "As an ambulatory wheelchair user, I wanted people to have the opportunity to see themselves represented in-game."
Edit: like I said before, these narcissists make it all about themselves.
Even funnier is theres no such thing in the actual book far as I ever saw. It was complete baiting and false virtue signalling. Totally disgusting.
Yeah - as Omega said, the article is quite misleading. Pundit notably read the article and claimed that now Sara Thompson's homebrew "combat wheelchair" was official and all adventures were now wheelchair accessible. But there's no such thing in the actual Candlekeep Mysteries adventure.
I actually like Jennifer Kretchmer's adventure, "The Canopic Being", but it's nonsensical to sell it on accessibility. There is an Egyptian style tomb inside it, which does have ramps as many Egyptian tombs did. However, the entrance is down a ladder, and there is also a pit to navigate. It has a mystery at its core about how to permanently kill the mummy lord, but it has traps and monster-fighting like most dungeons.
In general, all the Candlekeep adventures are still based around monster-fighting as usual for D&D. There is generally a core mystery to be solved, but there is still plenty of dungeons and action.
Yes, the baiting puts a stain on what would have otherwise been a fairly standard collection of advantures. At least one was a bit nonsenseical. But past that nothing nothing bothersome.
Marketing baiting is a serious problem with WOTC and has been one for a long time now. Only in recent years its gotten worse. Pronces of the Apocalypse was touted as "Alice in Wonderland" which was a complete and total lie. Candlekeep, and odds are high that Radiant Citadel will be too. Especially 4e D&D Gamma World, incessantly touted as ha-ha funny slapstick. And the game is just short of anything but. A few throw-away gag items does not a comedy setting make. Especially when the book itself has nearly zero humor elements.
This is why whenever they make statements like this for some product I can just about bet 100% odds that its baiting. They know people will raise hell and give them free advertising.
Quote from: FingerRod on March 22, 2022, 11:10:46 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
What drew me to alternative campaign settings like Spelljammer and Planescape is their uniqueness, creativity, thematic elements, and flexibility. I never once had to wonder whether or not the author had the 7 pieces of flair in their bio because their works were far more important than their virtue signals. The latest book from WotC "Strixhaven" was extremely lazy, and full of poor game design and weak narrative elements. There's actually very little worth using, and I don't recommend buying it. In fact, very few of these newer products can even compare to much of the 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D supplements that I've used and ported over to every edition since. What really annoys me about this is there are great, imaginative settings and people not getting published because of this garbage. So instead we get this tokenism version of Planescape.
When newer DMs ask me how to create a campaign I always tell them, "Get the Silver Edition 'Return to the Keep on the Borderlands' and convert it. As you do you will have to make choices what to keep and what to change or throw away. Then it becomes yours." I won't be tell them to pick up 'Horde of the Dragon Queen' and just run that. It's garbage, and so is this. D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Hard agree with everything except what I put in bold. Ran a campaign well over a year doing to HotDQ exactly what you described with Keep. Made the cultists actually cult-like, cruel, and pure evil. Zoomed way in on the elements. Years later still my most talked about campaign. Out of the box tho...you're absolutely right.
I had to change the entire beginning. The blue dragon is just one giant hamfist dropped on the players. It made more sense to me that the PCs could see the dragon pass overhead and then they must make a Will Save or be frightened. Any frightened PCs can't approach the keep as the dragon wrecks the defenses for the kobolds. Creating a story that matches the mechanics is very easy and the PCs shouldn't be facing a bored dragon so soon. The dragon leaves once it wipes out the guards with its breath. No need for a deus ex machina.
You're right about the cultists. The way they're implemented needs reworking. Cyanwrath the Merciful should be executing people in brutal fashion with no chance of saving them. Overall, the railroads, deus ex machina, cultist implementation, new DMs don't know how to fix that. I changed stuff because I bought it, but I don't recommend others buy it. "Rise of Tiamat" is much better and worth buying.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 03:51:50 AM
Yes, the baiting puts a stain on what would have otherwise been a fairly standard collection of advantures. At least one was a bit nonsenseical. But past that nothing nothing bothersome.
Marketing baiting is a serious problem with WOTC and has been one for a long time now. Only in recent years its gotten worse. Pronces of the Apocalypse was touted as "Alice in Wonderland" which was a complete and total lie. Candlekeep, and odds are high that Radiant Citadel will be too. Especially 4e D&D Gamma World, incessantly touted as ha-ha funny slapstick. And the game is just short of anything but. A few throw-away gag items does not a comedy setting make. Especially when the book itself has nearly zero humor elements.
This is why whenever they make statements like this for some product I can just about bet 100% odds that its baiting. They know people will raise hell and give them free advertising.
You're thinking of "Out of the Abyss", and that is nothing like "Alice in Wonderland" either. There's nothing Alice-esque about OotA. It seems like WotC gave a synopsis and the game journalists just ran with those talking points. TBH, it's closer to Call of Cthulhu with the Madness rules (faezrun sp?).
I really love the funny Gamma World remake. It's perfect for one-shot adventures or just a summer game when the kids are out of school. I ran a few funny campaigns over the summers to remember.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 12:41:19 AM
Even funnier is theres no such thing in the actual book far as I ever saw. It was complete baiting and false virtue signalling. Totally disgusting.
Oh Damn... :( What am I going to tell little Timmy now? He's got no legs, or arms and uses a voicebox. We just generated a character for him last night, one in a wheelchair, just for that book.
But who will represent him now? :( :(
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 01:02:05 AM
Not according to the people who worked there.
The hilarious thing about the whole Oriental adventures debacle was that the creators even apologized in the intro saying that they were basically not trying to make an accurate game per see, and even apologized if they got stuff wrong and that it was created for gaming purposes. I'm paraphrasing as I don't have the book in front of me.
Then WoTC cried because a few Canadian asians got bent out of shape.
This, on the whole backdrop of it being nearly 40 years old. What a bunch of dweebs. ;D
Quote from: pawsplay on March 23, 2022, 12:53:29 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 12:44:38 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 11:49:36 PM
I never got around it. But now I remember they had stuff like tea ceremonies and things like that in that setting. That would've been different, though, cuz that was more like an added cultural touch. But at the end of the day you were still playing a badass samurai ready to bust out his sword with lightning reflexes if enemies showed up to interrupt his tea.
Actually you could be challeneged to a contest of skills like who is the better dancer (That came up in one session I GMed) or who is the better cook, or who serves tea the best. OA was great for little things like that where combat was not the focus. WOTC could have learned from it. Instead they slapped a WACIST! label on it. You know. The setting TSR got actual asian cunsultants to look over. Yeah.
If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.
Actually, I grew up in the 80s, and the idea that "Oriental" was somehow a bad word (for reasons I've yet to understand) didn't really sink in till the 90s, and even then people would make jokes about it, cuz they didn't understand what made it a bad word either. But nice revisionist history there.
And who gives a shit about the race or ethnicity of consultants? Being an "Asian" born and raised in the US doesn't make you an expert on ancient Asian cultures. This is the sort of racist shit that looking at everything thought this racialized lens brings in, where people are just assumed to have certain knowledge by virtue of their race. Like I should just go ask a black guy for tips on how to play basketball, cuz obviously all blacks should know, since there's so many black people in the NBA.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 07:57:37 AM
And who gives a shit about the race or ethnicity of consultants? Being an "Asian" born and raised in the US doesn't make you an expert on ancient Asian cultures.
Yeah, but if you kick up a bit of a stink in today's climate you just might just get yourself a job as a 'cultural consultant' and get to make sub-par adventures for WoTC.
So win win...
Personally, the last thing I want is an Asian consultant if I wanted to make an Asian Themed martial arty game. I don't want to use their culture per se. I want to use our Westernized version. Not because it's better, but it's the shit I grew up with. A cultural exchange if you will.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 09:56:10 PM
Now I wanna see this happen. And this place is located right in the Ethereal Plane, so there's gotta be a way to open up a gate to the Elemental Planes and funnel a bunch of Fire Elementals in there and set the place ablaze.
I can already see the horde busting into the place with a witch in toe to start the necessary rituals to open up the gates while their warriors start ransacking the place to the screams of the confused masses in the middle of their baking contests armed with nothing but kitchen knives to defend themselves.
It would be glorious! 8)
Wait one fucking second. Did you say this place was in the Ethereal Plane?
Ethereal filchers and creepers. Phase spiders. Hags. You don't need to open a portal to the Plane of Fire.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 08:03:34 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 07:57:37 AM
And who gives a shit about the race or ethnicity of consultants? Being an "Asian" born and raised in the US doesn't make you an expert on ancient Asian cultures.
Yeah, but if you kick up a bit of a stink in today's climate you just might just get yourself a job as a 'cultural consultant' and get to make sub-par adventures for WoTC.
So win win...
Personally, the last thing I want is an Asian consultant if I wanted to make an Asian Themed martial arty game. I don't want to use their culture per se. I want to use our Westernized version. Not because it's better, but it's the shit I grew up with. A cultural exchange if you will.
Well, some of us prefer something based on actual research rather than made up garbage with an exotic coat of paint. I say this equally for all cultures that could be mined for inspiration. (If you want examples of writers getting
Western cultures horribly mangled, then look no further than anything made by White Wolf.)
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 23, 2022, 09:11:54 AM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 08:03:34 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 07:57:37 AM
And who gives a shit about the race or ethnicity of consultants? Being an "Asian" born and raised in the US doesn't make you an expert on ancient Asian cultures.
Yeah, but if you kick up a bit of a stink in today's climate you just might just get yourself a job as a 'cultural consultant' and get to make sub-par adventures for WoTC.
So win win...
Personally, the last thing I want is an Asian consultant if I wanted to make an Asian Themed martial arty game. I don't want to use their culture per se. I want to use our Westernized version. Not because it's better, but it's the shit I grew up with. A cultural exchange if you will.
Well, some of us prefer something based on actual research rather than made up garbage with an exotic coat of paint. I say this equally for all cultures that could be mined for inspiration. (If you want examples of writers getting Western cultures horribly mangled, then look no further than anything made by White Wolf.)
Perhaps, and the preference for something authentic can be valid. In fact, even when dealing with some made up BS I'd want it to at least be based on actual stuff from the actual culture, even if it's just fantasy version of it that isn't 100% accurate. But the thing to keep in mind about this fantasy stuff is that is that NONE of it is accurate, for ANY culture. None of the pseudo-European settings or material, with all their horned Viking helms that never existed in real life, is an accurate presentation of the cultures they're inspired from. All of it is made up based on multiple degrees of separation from myths and legend, and the real deal, mixed in with anachronism and stuff from different time periods and disparate European cultures.
But people like to pretend that any fantasy crap inspired by non-European cultures that isn't some historically authentic piece with accurate depictions of everything, that not even the people laying the criticism can produce, is some kind of affront to these cultures, like this isn't just made up fantasy nonsense serving as window dressing to play a game. It's some racialized fetishism that chooses to criticize and nitpick, and interpret any discrepancy or exaggeration as a racially insensitive insult or some sort of "exoticism". Like actual fantasy work from those cultures, like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, is an accurate depiction of these cultures, instead of a fantasy version of it.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 23, 2022, 09:11:54 AM
Well, some of us prefer something based on actual research rather than made up garbage with an exotic coat of paint. I say this equally for all cultures that could be mined for inspiration. (If you want examples of writers getting Western cultures horribly mangled, then look no further than anything made by White Wolf.)
That's great... No one said you couldn't or shouldn't by the way.
But I'm alright with a little 'coat of the exotic' as in Big Trouble in Little China or the 90s manga stuff. Being 'authentic' is a completely different approach and one that I care little about for my elf games.
But each to their own.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
Like actual fantasy work from those cultures, like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, is an accurate depiction of these cultures, instead of a fantasy version of it.
It's quite interesting from a martial arts perspective. The early shit we see from Chinese cinema etc. was all made up of hyper-realistic garbage. It's about as authentic as a Rolex you'd buy from a street pedlar in a kasbah.
Having trained (and coached) it for years it bears no resemblance to any real combat whatsoever. So they are totally complicit in selling their own B.S. to the world. I do love the irony, however. :)
Quote from: pawsplay on March 23, 2022, 12:53:29 AM
If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.
Is that "exoticism" or something that an old-man and his friends that have no deep understanding of the cultures they're trying to invoke outside of pop-culture of the 80's? I'm Asian, and I can tell you right now, the ***only*** people offended by Oriental Adventures in the 80's, that were vocal about it were white people that had their own fetish for the Asian cultures that weren't "properly represented to their magical standard. It wasn't even a racial thing - back then. Of course today by leftist standards, what isn't racist?
Did it have a lot of silly stuff in there? YES! Gloriously YES. It's got more to do with Kurosawa films than actual Japanese Culture. It has more to do with Black-Belt Theater than actual Chinese Gung Fu. The bizarre decisions were obvious to anyone back then when one could count on 2 fingers how many Asian RPG's were floating around contextually.
The Kara-tur Boxset was even better (and more "culturally analog-accurate" despite playing fast and loose with time-periods) - written by Mike Pondsmith no less.
Edit: I should note - White Wolf did the *exact* same thing with their Kindred of the East. Including making up "Asian sounding" names for their content... and the people that were most offended were other white folks.
But this whole idea of a game writting by POC's who of course are all Alphabet Allies (otherwise they wouldn't have the job) - is not even honest, in that they do not represent THOSE cultures. They're LARPing that shit. Personally I would never work for such a project that had me on for "representation" - GTFO with that shit. (and it's actually happened)
Again - this is a game not aimed at me and *nothing* about it surprises me. Pet POC's of Wokesters looking for clout in TTRPG's is like the casting couch of old Hollywood. Same dynamic.
This "setting" sounds about as fun as making a Chia-pet out of a stranger's dog-turd.
Quote from: S'mon on March 23, 2022, 02:18:00 AM
A Tanelorn type place to defend can be a great setting element. I totally distrust WoTC at this point though. And obviously there needs to be conflict.
That's the benchmark for this concept. Solid call.
Quote from: tenbones on March 23, 2022, 10:43:04 AM
Quote from: pawsplay on March 23, 2022, 12:53:29 AM
If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.
Is that "exoticism" or something that an old-man and his friends that have no deep understanding of the cultures they're trying to invoke outside of pop-culture of the 80's? I'm Asian, and I can tell you right now, the ***only*** people offended by Oriental Adventures in the 80's, that were vocal about it were white people that had their own fetish for the Asian cultures that weren't "properly represented to their magical standard. It wasn't even a racial thing - back then. Of course today by leftist standards, what isn't racist?
Did it have a lot of silly stuff in there? YES! Gloriously YES. It's got more to do with Kurosawa films than actual Japanese Culture. It has more to do with Black-Belt Theater than actual Chinese Gung Fu. The bizarre decisions were obvious to anyone back then when one could count on 2 fingers how many Asian RPG's were floating around contextually.
The Kara-tur Boxset was even better (and more "culturally analog-accurate" despite playing fast and loose with time-periods) - written by Mike Pondsmith no less.
Edit: I should note - White Wolf did the *exact* same thing with their Kindred of the East. Including making up "Asian sounding" names for their content... and the people that were most offended were other white folks.
But this whole idea of a game writting by POC's who of course are all Alphabet Allies (otherwise they wouldn't have the job) - is not even honest, in that they do not represent THOSE cultures. They're LARPing that shit. Personally I would never work for such a project that had me on for "representation" - GTFO with that shit. (and it's actually happened)
Again - this is a game not aimed at me and *nothing* about it surprises me. Pet POC's of Wokesters looking for clout in TTRPG's is like the casting couch of old Hollywood. Same dynamic.
This "setting" sounds about as fun as making a Chia-pet out of a stranger's dog-turd.
People who obsess over cultural appropriation are rarely members or even adjacent to said culture.
Is the actual book out for people to see what is really in it? Does it have a gay prom? I just need to know if there will be a gay prom.
Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
gay prom.
Sorry, but no gay prom = a no buy from me. So, they had better put one in.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 09:44:35 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 23, 2022, 09:11:54 AM
Well, some of us prefer something based on actual research rather than made up garbage with an exotic coat of paint. I say this equally for all cultures that could be mined for inspiration. (If you want examples of writers getting Western cultures horribly mangled, then look no further than anything made by White Wolf.)
That's great... No one said you couldn't or shouldn't by the way.
But I'm alright with a little 'coat of the exotic' as in Big Trouble in Little China or the 90s manga stuff. Being 'authentic' is a completely different approach and one that I care little about for my elf games.
But each to their own.
Okay then.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
Like actual fantasy work from those cultures, like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, is an accurate depiction of these cultures, instead of a fantasy version of it.
It's quite interesting from a martial arts perspective. The early shit we see from Chinese cinema etc. was all made up of hyper-realistic garbage. It's about as authentic as a Rolex you'd buy from a street pedlar in a kasbah.
Having trained (and coached) it for years it bears no resemblance to any real combat whatsoever. So they are totally complicit in selling their own B.S. to the world. I do love the irony, however. :)
This, exactly this. I mean...It's been years since I did done kempo but the Chinese cinema is completely complicit.
Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
Is the actual book out for people to see what is really in it? Does it have a gay prom? I just need to know if there will be a gay prom.
No, the book doesn't come out until June 21st. If you're curious about what is in the real book, I'll probably at least look over it in the game store. I might post about Candlekeep Mysteries here in a future thread.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
Like actual fantasy work from those cultures, like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, is an accurate depiction of these cultures, instead of a fantasy version of it.
It's quite interesting from a martial arts perspective. The early shit we see from Chinese cinema etc. was all made up of hyper-realistic garbage. It's about as authentic as a Rolex you'd buy from a street pedlar in a kasbah.
Having trained (and coached) it for years it bears no resemblance to any real combat whatsoever. So they are totally complicit in selling their own B.S. to the world. I do love the irony, however. :)
This, exactly this. I mean...It's been years since I did done kempo but the Chinese cinema is completely complicit.
Absolutely man! And they were only too happy to take the cash, and still are to this very day. And keeping that up with that Hollywood myth rakes in the cash.
Quote from: jhkim on March 23, 2022, 02:17:22 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
Is the actual book out for people to see what is really in it? Does it have a gay prom? I just need to know if there will be a gay prom.
No, the book doesn't come out until June 21st. If you're curious about what is in the real book, I'll probably at least look over it in the game store. I might post about Candlekeep Mysteries here in a future thread.
I always try to give a book a IRL chance, so once its out I may not need it (though it is appreciated) regarding the looking through. I do wish FLGS could make more bank from products outside the big boys though, it would allow for a lot more page throughs than current reality does. At least it is WOTC, so it will be in said FLGS at release.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 07:53:31 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 01:02:05 AM
Not according to the people who worked there.
The hilarious thing about the whole Oriental adventures debacle was that the creators even apologized in the intro saying that they were basically not trying to make an accurate game per see, and even apologized if they got stuff wrong and that it was created for gaming purposes. I'm paraphrasing as I don't have the book in front of me.
Then WoTC cried because a few Canadian asians got bent out of shape.
This, on the whole backdrop of it being nearly 40 years old. What a bunch of dweebs. ;D
1: er... no they did not apologize in the intro. Gygax, Cook and Breault are all gushing about the choices they made and why they made them. Why they modled primarily on Japan, with China a close second and anything else they thought would be interesting to apply. They explain how they approached these choices and what things inspired them, or were used as references.
2: WOTC is a bunch of racists baiting the very people they claim to represent.
3: 40 years old and written by far better people with an honest interest in the subjects than WOTC will ever know.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
Like actual fantasy work from those cultures, like Chinese Kung Fu flicks, is an accurate depiction of these cultures, instead of a fantasy version of it.
It's quite interesting from a martial arts perspective. The early shit we see from Chinese cinema etc. was all made up of hyper-realistic garbage. It's about as authentic as a Rolex you'd buy from a street pedlar in a kasbah.
Having trained (and coached) it for years it bears no resemblance to any real combat whatsoever. So they are totally complicit in selling their own B.S. to the world. I do love the irony, however. :)
This, exactly this. I mean...It's been years since I did done kempo but the Chinese cinema is completely complicit.
Absolutely man! And they were only too happy to take the cash, and still are to this very day. And keeping that up with that Hollywood myth rakes in the cash.
Yeah to be fair very few fights scenes are close to reality. I did enjoy a few of the scenes in Flashpoint though, some of the use of practical dynamic judo was nice to see mixed in with all the spin kicks.
Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
Is the actual book out for people to see what is really in it? Does it have a gay prom? I just need to know if there will be a gay prom.
A return of the gnay gnomes from Essentials? 8)
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 02:25:54 PM
A return of the gnay gnomes from Essentials? 8)
wait..wha...i miss something in 4e?
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 02:25:54 PM
A return of the gnay gnomes from Essentials? 8)
wait..wha...i miss something in 4e?
It's a reference to the 5E Essentials Kit. In one of the adventures included in the boxed set, there are two male gnome NPCs who are described as partners. There was a discussion thread about it three years ago:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/5e-essentials-kit-married-gnome-kings-co-ruling/
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.
Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 22, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on March 22, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
I think my favourite so far is this little gem:
QuoteSalted Legacy (1st level, Surena Marie). Rival merchant families are at war in the Night Market. Various challenges such as a timed cooking challenge.
Everyone get your pots, pans and freshest cooking ingredients - we are going to WAR!
I never thought I'd live to see the day when D&D turned into such a vacuous undertaking that it would feature cooking challenges as one of the key features in one of its published adventures. In fact the thought that such a thing could happen didn't even enter my mind. Yet here we are, and these people have taken over the game.
They think they can emulate Manga/Anime, because there are bestselling books based on cooking competitions.
{Narrators voice} They couldn't.
Quote from: jhkim on March 23, 2022, 03:29:18 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 03:11:35 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 02:25:54 PM
A return of the gnay gnomes from Essentials? 8)
wait..wha...i miss something in 4e?
It's a reference to the 5E Essentials Kit. In one of the adventures included in the boxed set, there are two male gnome NPCs who are described as partners. There was a discussion thread about it three years ago:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/5e-essentials-kit-married-gnome-kings-co-ruling/
Oh yeah, that. Thanks. I remember that now. It's fantasy, Forgotten Realms....all good :D
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Sigh, yep, this. Apparently, the creators of this book have a greater belief in the benevolence of mankin....er race....er species than I do.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 12:49:46 AM
Quote from: FingerRod on March 22, 2022, 11:10:46 PM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 22, 2022, 10:13:21 PM
What drew me to alternative campaign settings like Spelljammer and Planescape is their uniqueness, creativity, thematic elements, and flexibility. I never once had to wonder whether or not the author had the 7 pieces of flair in their bio because their works were far more important than their virtue signals. The latest book from WotC "Strixhaven" was extremely lazy, and full of poor game design and weak narrative elements. There's actually very little worth using, and I don't recommend buying it. In fact, very few of these newer products can even compare to much of the 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D supplements that I've used and ported over to every edition since. What really annoys me about this is there are great, imaginative settings and people not getting published because of this garbage. So instead we get this tokenism version of Planescape.
When newer DMs ask me how to create a campaign I always tell them, "Get the Silver Edition 'Return to the Keep on the Borderlands' and convert it. As you do you will have to make choices what to keep and what to change or throw away. Then it becomes yours." I won't be tell them to pick up 'Horde of the Dragon Queen' and just run that. It's garbage, and so is this. D&D is supposed to be for everyone, and these narcissists are making everything about themselves.
Hard agree with everything except what I put in bold. Ran a campaign well over a year doing to HotDQ exactly what you described with Keep. Made the cultists actually cult-like, cruel, and pure evil. Zoomed way in on the elements. Years later still my most talked about campaign. Out of the box tho...you're absolutely right.
Same. I have spoken before on DMing the two modules and they are actually alot of fun if you ignore certain elements and outright railroading and just let the players go at it however.
Interestingly Hoard is not a WOTC book. It was outsourced to Kobold and some of the problems with it were because the system changed during the creation of the modules.
That is very interesting. I never knew Kobold was behind it.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
I am wondering this too.
Does the place just not let in anyone with naughty thoughts? Or is there some magic that makes everyone nice? Some sort of thought police would never work because they cant be everywhwhere.
For a look at doing this differently take a glance at Top Ballista for BECMI way back.
Gnomes and other demi/non-human creatures work together to create a flying nation where creatures can co-exist. This including Korphu and Nagphas to name a few. They overall get along because the alternative is back to groundside. Theres an undercurrent of political jockying. Sometimes aggressively. But overall its Radiant Citadel - in the sky. With biplanes, and gnomes and... and... 8)
Night Howlers tries this on a smaller scale with werewolves trying to co-exist peacefully. And though I have not read it all Sea People does much the same. Just more fractiously than the other two.
I can just see WOTC trying to write Top Ballista today. With an all midget writing crew. ???
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 04:24:09 PM
For a look at doing this differently take a glance at Top Ballista for BECMI way back.
Gnomes and other demi/non-human creatures work together to create a flying nation where creatures can co-exist. This including Korphu and Nagphas to name a few. They overall get along because the alternative is back to groundside. Theres an undercurrent of political jockying. Sometimes aggressively. But overall its Radiant Citadel - in the sky. With biplanes, and gnomes and... and... 8)
Top Ballista is one of my all time favourites. On the other hand most people think that being able to play monsterous characters that could level up is something that only happened in 3e.
Greetings!
Only cock-sucking Leftist jackasses think that the term *Oriental* is somehow offensive. Oriental is opposite of Occidental. East and West. Geesus, even ASIAN people have referred to themselves as "Being Oriental" or "From the Orient".
Edward Said is a Leftist fuckstick.
Beyond that, so much of the Liberals language and entire ideology is racist.
I had a professor at my university that was a well-known expert and authority on Eastern Cultures, most particularly INDIA.
And he was a WHITE MAN. That didn't stop actual INDIANS from regarding him with utmost respect for his leadership, for his intellectual integrity, and for his authoritative scholarship.
I also had an INDIAN political science professor. And an INDIAN English professor. Should they have been disqualified because they weren't WHITE?
Gee, maybe their positions as professors had something to do with having degrees in Political Science and English, and having many years of work to demonstrate their expertise in such fields. It doesn't have fuck all to do with their skin colour or their goddamn race!
People that cry about "Cultural Appropriation" can go fuck themselves. Everyone borrows--and PROFITS!--from taking and using stuff and ideas and images, whatever--from everyone else. Guess what? Historically, that has ALWAYS been the reality, everywhere!
ORIENTAL ADVENTURES is a great book. And it was a great book when it first came out. It is a fantasy Asian book for the D&D game. All the Daniel Kwans can fucking choke on it.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
This did briefly cross my mind, and now I feel like an idiot for not pointing it out or going through it further in my head. I guess I just wasn't talking it seriously enough. But I doubt there's anything fascistic or nefarious about it. They're just too stupid to think about it deeply either, and figure that such a place could simply exist on their say so, cuz elf games!
I deeply suspect that once this book comes out if you examine it further with a fine tooth comb, you will find nothing more nefarious in it than a poorly thought-out vacuous landscape of a hub, with no rime or reason behind it beyond, "It's FANTASY! Anything can exist!" And if any of this miraculously gets addressed at all it will come with a heavy dose of magic and scout's honor from anyone who comes in. Cuz why would anyone want to cause trouble in such a nice place?
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 04:24:09 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
I am wondering this too.
Does the place just not let in anyone with naughty thoughts? Or is there some magic that makes everyone nice? Some sort of thought police would never work because they cant be everywhwhere.
For a look at doing this differently take a glance at Top Ballista for BECMI way back.
Gnomes and other demi/non-human creatures work together to create a flying nation where creatures can co-exist. This including Korphu and Nagphas to name a few. They overall get along because the alternative is back to groundside. Theres an undercurrent of political jockying. Sometimes aggressively. But overall its Radiant Citadel - in the sky. With biplanes, and gnomes and... and... 8)
Night Howlers tries this on a smaller scale with werewolves trying to co-exist peacefully. And though I have not read it all Sea People does much the same. Just more fractiously than the other two.
I can just see WOTC trying to write Top Ballista today. With an all midget writing crew. ???
The fast way? 8)
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 23, 2022, 04:52:27 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
This did briefly cross my mind, and now I feel like an idiot for not pointing it out or going through it further in my head. I guess I just wasn't talking it seriously enough. But I doubt there's anything fascistic or nefarious about it. They're just too stupid to think about it deeply either, and figure that such a place could simply exist on their say so, cuz elf games!
I deeply suspect that once this book comes out if you examine it further with a fine tooth comb, you will find nothing more nefarious in it than a poorly thought-out vacuous landscape of a hub, with no rime or reason behind it beyond, "It's FANTASY! Anything can exist!" And if any of this miraculously gets addressed at all it will come with a heavy dose of magic and scout's honor from anyone who comes in. Cuz why would anyone want to cause trouble in such a nice place?
Trust me, I don't think the leftards even realized that the only way their Utopia cuold exist is with a strong man dictator with an iron hand in a very thin velvet glove fascist.
Doesn't mean my analysis isn't spot on IMHO. There's no way this place could ever exist without some type of fascist magic involved.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 04:12:39 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Sigh, yep, this. Apparently, the creators of this book have a greater belief in the benevolence of mankin....er race....er species than I do.
"We like to call it sentientkind" 8)
Quote from: FingerRod on March 23, 2022, 04:23:25 PM
That is very interesting. I never knew Kobold was behind it.
QuoteCredits
Kobold Press
Designers: Wolfgang Baur, Steve Winter
Editor: Miranda Horner
Interior Illustrators: Aaron Hubrich, Tyler Jacobson,
Guido Kuip, Marcel Mercado, Bryan Syme
Cartographer: Jared Blando
Art Director: Marc Radle
Producer: Wolfgang Baur
If I recall right Kobold did the writing, art, etc. WOTC did the printing and distribution.
I am pretty sure one or two other books were outsourced as well. Princes of the Apocalypse lists Sasquatch for that one. Out of the Abyss was Green Ronin. Those are the only three I know of so far.
Not counting books based on, and I believe written by, other peoples works like Acquisitions and Wildermont.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
The fast way? 8)
The Pegataur centaur/pegasus hybrids, Harpies, Nagpa and Sphynxs can just kinda futter down. The tabaxi of course always land on their feet, and the Gnomes... Well... They do enough crashing on their own. Probably not helped by all those Gremlin mechanics. 8)
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 04:59:53 PM
"We like to call it sentientkind" 8)
LOL
If there is not an attack helicopter that identifies as pixie I am just not buying this book! :'(
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 04:12:39 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
Sigh, yep, this. Apparently, the creators of this book have a greater belief in the benevolence of mankin....er race....er species than I do.
That's just the least of it. Apparently, the creators of this book believe in elves, gnomes, and the Ethereal Plane as well. They're just fucking insane.
Quote from: Omega on March 23, 2022, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 23, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 04:59:53 PM
"We like to call it sentientkind" 8)
LOL
If there is not an attack helicopter that identifies as pixie I am just not buying this book! :'(
AND a Gay Prom in High School.
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If you are on the Planes there are a lot worse places you can end up that would make Athas look like happy fun land.
Quote from: Shasarak on March 23, 2022, 11:30:28 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If you are on the Planes there are a lot worse places you can end up that would make Athas look like happy fun land.
You mean like Toril and Oerth? Cuz Athas sounds like a lot more fun than either of those two places. 8)
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If they were following Athas' setting rules then it should not be accessible. Even demon summoning was supposed to be hard if recall right.
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 02:36:24 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If they were following Athas' setting rules then it should not be accessible. Even demon summoning was supposed to be hard if recall right.
I was just about to say this but got thread ninja'd.
There is a zone surrounding Athas called "The Gray", which prevented travel. You couldn't use a Spelljammer to get there, nor could you use Astral or Planar travel.
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 24, 2022, 02:50:55 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 02:36:24 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If they were following Athas' setting rules then it should not be accessible. Even demon summoning was supposed to be hard if recall right.
I was just about to say this but got thread ninja'd.
There is a zone surrounding Athas called "The Gray", which prevented travel. You couldn't use a Spelljammer to get there, nor could you use Astral or Planar travel.
It was portrayed as rare and difficult. I imagine because frequent (relative term) planar travel to Athas would disrupt some of the setting elements.
But not impossible.
Quote from: AnthonyRoberson on March 22, 2022, 10:17:19 AM
One of the adventures is called "Written in Blood" that is "Based on the black experience in the Southern US".
So all the PCs are orcs?
I remember reading somewhere that the githyanki took one look at Athas and said, 'Yeah, that's... a bit more work than we wanna deal with.'
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.
Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?
Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon. So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief.
A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore. During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.
Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?
Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon. So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief.
A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore. During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!
Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 24, 2022, 03:56:43 AM
Quote from: AtomicPope on March 24, 2022, 02:50:55 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 02:36:24 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:22:59 PM
'portals to other D&D worlds'
Three words: 'Welcome to Athas'.
WHY.
It's not so much the 'inter-setting crossover' that bugs me. It's the tacit idea that oh no, nothing bad could come of this.
If they were following Athas' setting rules then it should not be accessible. Even demon summoning was supposed to be hard if recall right.
I was just about to say this but got thread ninja'd.
There is a zone surrounding Athas called "The Gray", which prevented travel. You couldn't use a Spelljammer to get there, nor could you use Astral or Planar travel.
It was portrayed as rare and difficult. I imagine because frequent (relative term) planar travel to Athas would disrupt some of the setting elements.
But not impossible.
If I recall right. Spelljammer states that Athas is possbly reachable. But it is so far removed from the normal lanes that it is unlikely anyone will ever find it. I believe it stated that summoning planar beings was possible. But they pretty much always refuse due to the high risk of being stranded and cut off there.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.
Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?
Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon. So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief.
A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore. During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!
Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.
It really was. I am always amazed at the things first time players will try. They often think outside the box where veteran players cannot.
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 04:33:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 24, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 24, 2022, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on March 22, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
I ran a B/X game for a group of kids, male and female, ages ranging from 8-16 this last weekend.
They murdered kobolds and stole their loot, and loved it!
Murdering kobolds implies those kobolds were totally innocent butterflies. Stealing their loot implies it's not the spoils of war.
Did you actually created such an scenario for the kids?
Hah, no not really I was mostly being tongue in cheek there. The kobolds we're from Stonehell and had grown tired of being custodians for the dungeon. So they found an old crypt that had been long since looted and made it their own. From there they would set traps for caravans and steal their goods and generally engaged in all manner of mischief.
A local wizard discovered that the crypt that had a hidden chamber, and it was likely that no one had found this secret or its contents. So he hired the group to go with him an explore. During the course of the adventure they freed a captured goblin, and an ogre (who the kobolds had trapped in a cell). Both monsters helped them directly confront the kobolds chieftain and his minions. Luckily the ogre died in the conflict, so the PCs were able to get his sack of treasure as well. All told, it was a fun intro adventure for them that taught them the values of avoiding conflict when they could and making allies. One thing it didn't lack though, was conflict!
Figured as much, it does sound like a fun first session.
It really was. I am always amazed at the things first time players will try. They often think outside the box where veteran players cannot.
You would need to witness what my group gets up to. Only one of us is what you'd call a noob, coming onto 2 years since he started playing.
Can we please start calling the Radiant Citadel what it is?
A Sparkly Safe Space.
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 23, 2022, 12:29:37 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on March 23, 2022, 12:27:35 PM
gay prom.
Sorry, but no gay prom = a no buy from me. So, they had better put one in.
There'll probably be a Gay Dia De Los Muertos. Because everyone knows all "Latinxes" are super pro-LGBT pagan death-worshippers.
In case anyone missed the other thread:
The new #dnd5e #RadiantCitadel book promises no intrigues, no lurking monsters, no gritty crime-ridden streets, and "Diversity"! Which means lazy utopian stereotypes and no Caucasian game designers.
... Well, actually, almost none.
#dnd #ttrpg
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
More importantly, how do they keep the Kender out of the Sparkly Safe Space?
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:00:24 PM
Can we please start calling the Radiant Citadel what it is?
A Sparkly Safe Space.
ain't that the gawds own truth
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 24, 2022, 08:21:21 PM
....
There'll probably be a Gay Dia De Los Muertos. Because everyone knows all "Latinxes" are super pro-LGBT pagan death-worshippers.
True, true. I agree. Latinx.......sigh
Expect this book to have zero artwork of any Caucasion looking person, and these woke turds will proclaim it as a win for representation and inclusion.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
You could have an aloof leader enforcing the goodness and safeness of the space. If you go against her edicts then she could either banish you to a time out maze to think about what you have done or, if your crimes are sever enough, cancel you with her shadow that can cut like a blade.
I would call her Lady of
Pain Safeness.
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 25, 2022, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
More importantly, how do they keep the Kender out of the Sparkly Safe Space?
That's a point where I differ from most DMs. It's not a utopia unless there are kender. With just one kender I no longer need to drive the story - all the drama happens by itself and I can just kick back and watch the players go for half an hour at a time.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
The obvious solution to all of those questions is that you hire a bunch of adventurers to take care of it. :-)
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
Its been around at least 5 years as a major marketing push. Before that WOTC at least was using it with 4e. So the practice goes back at least that far. Probably got its origins in the backlash to the "reimagined" phase back in the early 00s. And unlike the "fans are bad" marketing push. This one has not mostly fell apart. "Subvert Expectations" is another one that needs to die in hell.
The gist of outrage marketing is to garner free advertising by getting pushing the right buttons on critics and fans. Mostly any online critics. Complaints draw attention. Attention draws in sales. It doesnt matter if its an ass backwards ploy and loses customers. Marketing treats these things like a religion.
WOTC alone has been using outrage baiting with 5e for the last few years where they make some statement thats tailored to draw ire. But the actual product has no such thing in it, or if it is it is so minor as to be nothing. As said before. It discredits the complainers and if the product fails. They have their scapegoat that is was those mean ol 'ists" at it again. boo-hoo-hoo! Crocodile tears flow.
But to the average player who is unaware of all this it just looks like some nut making up stuff against a game that they arent seeing any of this "woke threat" in it. Candlekeep is a prime and disgusting example.
Candlekeep: "Look here! Wheelchair Accessible Dungeons!!!!"
Pundit: EXPLODES!!!
Average viewer gets caught in the blast and buys the book to see what all the fuss is about.
Average viewer sees the book doesnt have these things Pundit went thermonuclear about. (Unaware WOTC said they would be in the book) And deduces Pundit is a liar.
WOTC rakes in free advertising and sales: $$$!!!
The people complaining they know arent going to by the book anyhow so riling them up is no loss. And the odds of them turning any potential customers away is by their calculations fairly rare. It will just convince those who arent going to buy anynow not to buy. Again. No loss.
I've seen a few other venues pull it as well.
The only way to fight it is to not take the bait. Which is damnably hard.
Thing is. We already know that this "safe place free of crime, strife and intrigue" is not free of crime strife or intrigue because thats exactly what at least one of the adventures set within the citadel has. Two warring shops that escalates. It probably wont be violence. But the illustration shows theft and outrage at said theft.
Unless they somehow handwave all that off as just "fun and games" friendly rivalry. Which maybe it is. Which is ok with me. as then theyd be consistent with the mission statement. Their idea of "no conflict or intrigue" might not extend to little things.
So its Top Ballista without the gnomes and grime. gnime? Demons and Devils walk the streets and everyone at least tolerates everyone else because otherwise"something" will deal with them and/or they lose access to the place. EG, any given convention. 8)
We wont know till it comes out. But WOTC is counting on us to overreact.
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 25, 2022, 08:48:27 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 25, 2022, 02:02:50 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 22, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
If it were not being used as yet another hateful agenda platform. It would be a pretty good setting.
Think about it.
How many cities in and out of D&D are actually safe to just walk around and interact in without some maniac crawling out of the woodwork to kill you? Or rob you? Or trick you? No political intrigue even?
That sounds great and is exactly the sort of place I drop into my own campaigns and is the default setting for an upcoming book. The other default setting being the diametric opposite of peaceful and safe. 8)
But nooooo. We cant just have a nice setting area. No. They have to turn it into another agenda platform.
It's a hub, it has magic stones that are portals to the other worlds of D&D...
How the actual fuck is it totally free of ANY conflict/bad actor?
Even assuming that HASHTAG Not All (insert your monster here) are evil, there are SOME that are most deffinetelly evil, so...
How is it that not a single bad actor ever goes there? How come that there's not a single thief, conman, etc there?
What you see as a nice and safe environment stinks of fascist government to me.
And it should be obvious to the leftards writting it: You'd need guards in every point of entry on the other worlds, reading the minds, detecting alignment, etc and preventing said bad actors to ever crossing, you would also need to cull anyone born there that doesn't fall in the approved parameters of the government. Before they ever commit any crime, think pre-crime but worst and on a global scale.
Either that or you are exerting mind control over anyone who crosses/is born there.
Like ALL Utopias, once you scratch the surface it reveals itself as a Dystopia.
Well that's cynical as hell. Will people only become good if they're forced to do so? My personal experience says no.
So I think I'll ramble a bit ... A utopia is a place without problems. Problems can come from the environment, people outside the utopia, and people inside the utopia. The first two are theoretically possible to deal with, but the kicker is that a utopia is more of a people than a place, and a utopia without free will, where people are forced to be good, is indeed a dystopia.
But I think that this challenge can be addressed as well. First there needs to be general agreement on what is good. This happens in real life to some extent in any society, and to a great extent within some communities such as religious organizations. So that's at least theoretically possible.
The next and key issue is how can all these people live continue to live according to their ideals without removing free will. Education, inspiration, and social expectations will get most of the way there, I think. And for those that really don't want to be good, well they can leave. And I think that covers it. None of that violates free will or requires mind control.
Does utopia need to be policed? Sure, but so does any society. No mind reading is necessary. Thinking bad thoughts doesn't affect anyone else's utopia experience. And if someone does bad, then they can be given the choice of doing better or leaving.
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
More importantly, how do they keep the Kender out of the Sparkly Safe Space?
That's a point where I differ from most DMs. It's not a utopia unless there are kender. With just one kender I no longer need to drive the story - all the drama happens by itself and I can just kick back and watch the players go for half an hour at a time.
Dude, a kender in the Sparkly Safe Space would have the same effect as a male-to-female trans rapist being placed in a women's prison - utter evil chaos!
But but but?
Kender arent thieves! They "borrow" stuff totally innocently.
No... really. Thats how they work in the book and RPG. Keep in mind they are under the same curse that makes the tinker gnomes make unweidy contraptions and the gully dwarves stupid. Problem is Kender are so mary sue in the books that it makes them unlikable.
So Kender in this Radiant Citadel would fit if they actually put stuff back or people knew the gig and just eventually got their stuff back. PC kender on the other hand would probably be standing orders to kill on sight. heh...
Quote from: Omega on March 25, 2022, 07:36:31 PMThe only way to fight it is to not take the bait. Which is damnably hard.
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.
Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.
Quote from: Omega on March 26, 2022, 04:41:00 AM
But but but?
Kender arent thieves! They "borrow" stuff totally innocently.
No... really. Thats how they work in the book and RPG. Keep in mind they are under the same curse that makes the tinker gnomes make unweidy contraptions and the gully dwarves stupid. Problem is Kender are so mary sue in the books that it makes them unlikable.
That was Classic Kender.
Revised New Hotness Kender, if I read the preview stuff correctly, are no longer kleptomaniacs and instead will magically and spontaneously manifest objects in their pockets, off a roll-random table and not out of your friends' pockets.
On the table I never saw an old-style Kender PC that didn't piss off the rest of the players.
I suppose it makes them a little more playable, but eh...there's a certain shine rubbed off it now that makes it uninteresting.
Quote from: Shasarak on March 25, 2022, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 25, 2022, 08:00:16 AM
The Citadel is not some isolated community where everyone has been indoctrinated into giving up crime and undesirable behavior since birth, but an central hub in the middle of the Ethereal plane (which is pretty much a crossroads between planes of existence tied to everywhere) where adventurers from all over the place and all these bad behaviors already in their minds can come and relax. How do they screen "good" adventurers from grave robbers and backstabbers, or even bandits and other criminal elements that also travel all over the place? And how do they keep sneak thieves from going around picking everyone's pockets or setting up their own criminal operations, or disparate groups of armed and hardened individuals from descending into all out conflict over a disagreement, or even rivalries between groups that already existed before they got to that place?
You could have an aloof leader enforcing the goodness and safeness of the space. If you go against her edicts then she could either banish you to a time out maze to think about what you have done or, if your crimes are sever enough, cancel you with her shadow that can cut like a blade.
I would call her Lady of Pain Safeness.
Damn, if only someone would've thought of that decades ago and incorporated it into a cool city full of intrigue and doors to everywhere in the multiverse, we wouldn't need this watered down lump of a trade hub.
Quote from: Thornhammer on March 26, 2022, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 26, 2022, 04:41:00 AM
But but but?
Kender arent thieves! They "borrow" stuff totally innocently.
No... really. Thats how they work in the book and RPG. Keep in mind they are under the same curse that makes the tinker gnomes make unweidy contraptions and the gully dwarves stupid. Problem is Kender are so mary sue in the books that it makes them unlikable.
That was Classic Kender.
Revised New Hotness Kender, if I read the preview stuff correctly, are no longer kleptomaniacs and instead will magically and spontaneously manifest objects in their pockets, off a roll-random table and not out of your friends' pockets.
On the table I never saw an old-style Kender PC that didn't piss off the rest of the players.
I suppose it makes them a little more playable, but eh...there's a certain shine rubbed off it now that makes it uninteresting.
ANY Kender are banned from my table. There is a certain kind of disruptive player who loves Kender, the ones who show up just to piss everyone off and then say "But I was just playing in character!"
So, no Kender.
Quote from: Thornhammer on March 26, 2022, 09:33:13 AM
Quote from: Omega on March 26, 2022, 04:41:00 AM
But but but?
Kender arent thieves! They "borrow" stuff totally innocently.
No... really. Thats how they work in the book and RPG. Keep in mind they are under the same curse that makes the tinker gnomes make unweidy contraptions and the gully dwarves stupid. Problem is Kender are so mary sue in the books that it makes them unlikable.
That was Classic Kender.
Revised New Hotness Kender, if I read the preview stuff correctly, are no longer kleptomaniacs and instead will magically and spontaneously manifest objects in their pockets, off a roll-random table and not out of your friends' pockets.
On the table I never saw an old-style Kender PC that didn't piss off the rest of the players.
I suppose it makes them a little more playable, but eh...there's a certain shine rubbed off it now that makes it uninteresting.
Hatred of Kender is a tie that binds us all. I do not know of a person who has played in a significant DL campaign who does not have a different version of the same story.
It is not so much the kleptomania issue as everything else bundled in.
They are totally innocent and never ever see it as stealing.
They are totally fearless. To the point that even demon lords with intense fear auras barely phase them for a moment and even freaking Takisis only cracks the shell. Raislin has been about the only one to ever do lasting damage and even that is not a full victory.
Like the gnomes I suspect part of the ire is the same as the 5e Kenku got. its a curse that is allways running and interferes with any ability to RP such characters. Your kender is allways going to want to filch stuff, your gnome is never going to be able to invent something useful that isnt massively overcomplicated. Your Kenku can never speak normally and can never have an original idea.
In the main books Kender are overall pretty mild. The side stories and anthologies, especially those by other authors, are all over the place.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.
Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.
100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.
Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.
100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.
To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly.
Quote from: Krugus on March 26, 2022, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.
Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.
100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.
To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly.
And most probably already own enough games for the next three generations of their family to play regularly for at least 50 years.
Quote from: HappyDaze on March 26, 2022, 06:26:29 PM
Quote from: Krugus on March 26, 2022, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 26, 2022, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
........
There's probably 1000 fantasy RPGs on DriveThruRPG. At least 100 of them are probably good enough to play regularly, and most people could probably find 10 kickass ones in the pile.
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers. There isn't and the players who say they play 5e or nothing aren't worth keeping at your table.
Abandoning WotC is no harder than tossing Twatter or Farcebook.
100% spot on Spinachcat. We need to quit pretending there is something special about WotC. They might have had something good years ago....but not anymore.
To be honest...We don't really need any company for anything due to most of us here have been playing TTRPG's so long that all we need are dice and paper and we could run nearly any kind of game on the fly.
And most probably already own enough games for the next three generations of their family to play regularly for at least 50 years.
Yup! I might have about 4000 RPG PDFs (mostly from sales and bundles) that I will never be able to read let alone play... AND I published my own RPG, in addition to house rules etc.
Nowadays I find good critique to be more valuable than new games.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 23, 2022, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: tenbones on March 23, 2022, 10:43:04 AM
Quote from: pawsplay on March 23, 2022, 12:53:29 AM
If by actual Asian consultants you mean a couple of Japanese guys made some comments on the Japanese-inspired stuff and Gygax didn't ignore everything they said. Even in the 80s, calling something "Oriental" immediately signaled you were going for some kind of anachronistic, exoticist motif. OA was full of bizarre decisions, like trying to make a bushi something other than a fighter, and inventing a kind of Asian wizard with a made-up pseudo-Chinese name.
Is that "exoticism" or something that an old-man and his friends that have no deep understanding of the cultures they're trying to invoke outside of pop-culture of the 80's? I'm Asian, and I can tell you right now, the ***only*** people offended by Oriental Adventures in the 80's, that were vocal about it were white people that had their own fetish for the Asian cultures that weren't "properly represented to their magical standard. It wasn't even a racial thing - back then. Of course today by leftist standards, what isn't racist?
Did it have a lot of silly stuff in there? YES! Gloriously YES. It's got more to do with Kurosawa films than actual Japanese Culture. It has more to do with Black-Belt Theater than actual Chinese Gung Fu. The bizarre decisions were obvious to anyone back then when one could count on 2 fingers how many Asian RPG's were floating around contextually.
The Kara-tur Boxset was even better (and more "culturally analog-accurate" despite playing fast and loose with time-periods) - written by Mike Pondsmith no less.
Edit: I should note - White Wolf did the *exact* same thing with their Kindred of the East. Including making up "Asian sounding" names for their content... and the people that were most offended were other white folks.
But this whole idea of a game writting by POC's who of course are all Alphabet Allies (otherwise they wouldn't have the job) - is not even honest, in that they do not represent THOSE cultures. They're LARPing that shit. Personally I would never work for such a project that had me on for "representation" - GTFO with that shit. (and it's actually happened)
Again - this is a game not aimed at me and *nothing* about it surprises me. Pet POC's of Wokesters looking for clout in TTRPG's is like the casting couch of old Hollywood. Same dynamic.
This "setting" sounds about as fun as making a Chia-pet out of a stranger's dog-turd.
People who obsess over cultural appropriation are rarely members or even adjacent to said culture.
Definitely true. Particularly true for native American cultural appropriation complaints.
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Spoken like a True Defender of the Sparkly Safe Space. Ride on, o' White Knight!
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Not that I'm alt-right...
Although, that tactic seems to have been done waaay before we did it. And interestingly enough, most of the designers who were trying to ruffle feathers back in the day were doing it before all this political correctness infected the hobby.
Quote from: Spinachcat on March 26, 2022, 05:24:09 AM
Abandoning WotC/5e/D&D is only hard if we keep pretending that there is something special about what WotC offers.
There is, though: the D&D brand. At least by some definitions of the term, branding is literally magic, and lifestyle brands are religions in all but name.
Speaking from personal experience, realizing you can no longer identify with a brand because they've finally crossed some line you won't put up with is actually a kind of miniature version of the experience of losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.
Except D&D is not a "lifestyle" brand yet, and likely never will be.
WOTC can say this all they want. But they lack the resources and the will to make it so. Instead they point at fan creations. You know, the things that have been around from near the start. And declare these "lifestyle". And monetize it if they can. And the morons here fall for it. You are puppets dancing to WOTCs strings. Again. Free advertising.
If anything WOTC has so far put out LESS than TSR ever did. Possibly 90% or more is done by other groups they allow to or license to.
TSR had colouring books, colourforms, kids books, toys, action figures, freaking D&D candy! What does WOTC have that isnt made by someone else? A few PDF colouring books and maybe a kids book set?
"Lifestyle" has no meaning. It is just another trendy buzzword to chirp.
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 12:08:30 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Spoken like a True Defender of the Sparkly Safe Space. Ride on, o' White Knight!
What safe space? I'm HERE, aren't I? You need no more evidence that I am no defender of safe spaces.
I think what I said is true. I think Crawford and some others at WOTC enjoy tweaking off alt-right people with their comments. In very much the same way many on the alt-right enjoy tweaking off SJW. Do you disagree, or are you just going to dodge that question again?
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Not that I'm alt-right...
Although, that tactic seems to have been done waaay before we did it. And interestingly enough, most of the designers who were trying to ruffle feathers back in the day were doing it before all this political correctness infected the hobby.
I agree. The alt-right (for lack of a better term) is newer at this than the progressive crowd. Rush used to do it a bit, but really Ben Shapiro really led the charge on it for the right.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...
No you just made a false inference. They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...
No you just made a false inference. They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
Okay then, you're still wrong, they do it to inject their ideology or destroy the vehicle. Any of those is a win for them.
Quote from: Omega on March 27, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
If anything WOTC has so far put out LESS than TSR ever did. Possibly 90% or more is done by other groups they allow to or license to.
TSR had colouring books, colourforms, kids books, toys, action figures, freaking D&D candy! What does WOTC have that isnt made by someone else? A few PDF colouring books and maybe a kids book set?
"Lifestyle" has no meaning. It is just another trendy buzzword to chirp.
Most of the non-game stuff from the 80s was licensed out as well. I think WotC
wants to make D&D a "lifestyle brand," but while they've been pushing that way, the intermediate step is "multimedia franchise," which they haven't pulled off yet. We'll see how the movie turns out.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.
My point is that it can be painful, so people are reluctant to do it.
That said, I do think they're headed for a crisis when the D&D fad, and the broader fantasy fad, passes. It's been over a decade now since GoT kicked it off, so I doubt it's going to be more than about three or four more years. After that, I expect D&D's sales to go into free fall.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.
My point is that it can be painful, so people are reluctant to do it.
That said, I do think they're headed for a crisis when the D&D fad, and the broader fantasy fad, passes. It's been over a decade now since GoT kicked it off, so I doubt it's going to be more than about three or four more years. After that, I expect D&D's sales to go into free fall.
Nah, the pain comes from refusing to accept said corporation doesn't want you as a customer and what's more they hate you.
Once I reached that conclusion dropping my decades long habit of collecting/reading American comics was a piece of cake.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.
My point is that it can be painful, so people are reluctant to do it.
That said, I do think they're headed for a crisis when the D&D fad, and the broader fantasy fad, passes. It's been over a decade now since GoT kicked it off, so I doubt it's going to be more than about three or four more years. After that, I expect D&D's sales to go into free fall.
Nah, the pain comes from refusing to accept said corporation doesn't want you as a customer and what's more they hate you.
Once I reached that conclusion dropping my decades long habit of collecting/reading American comics was a piece of cake.
Aren't you a devout Catholic, though? That could be why a brand never took on that role for you. If you're already in Detroit, you don't need to take a bus to get there.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 05:26:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 04:55:33 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on March 27, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on March 27, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
losing a religion because you realize you can no longer believe in it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. When a company no longer delivers what you want or expect then it's time to drop them like a hot iron.
My point is that it can be painful, so people are reluctant to do it.
That said, I do think they're headed for a crisis when the D&D fad, and the broader fantasy fad, passes. It's been over a decade now since GoT kicked it off, so I doubt it's going to be more than about three or four more years. After that, I expect D&D's sales to go into free fall.
Nah, the pain comes from refusing to accept said corporation doesn't want you as a customer and what's more they hate you.
Once I reached that conclusion dropping my decades long habit of collecting/reading American comics was a piece of cake.
Aren't you a devout Catholic, though? That could be why a brand never took on that role for you. If you're already in Detroit, you don't need to take a bus to get there.
Nope, grew as a Catholic, became an Atheist after leaving Catholicism and becoming an ordained Christian Priest. That I found my faith again is irrelevant since I droped comics before that.
I would liken it to an abusive relationship, where you're the victim and keep going back to your spouse and making excuses for them. It resembles that, not a religion.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:03:03 PM
I agree. The alt-right (for lack of a better term) is newer at this than the progressive crowd. Rush used to do it a bit, but really Ben Shapiro really led the charge on it for the right.
I think it was around 2009-10 that I first saw a right-wing person being mean to the Left, the way the Left had been doing to the Right for decades. It was Ann Coulter. I guess "don't let's be beastly to the Lefties" is a marker for being "Right but not Alt-Right"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wveW9Tw2JKE
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
Do you disagree, or are you just going to dodge that question again?
So, you are trolling me again? I'm on to your tricks, WotC Defender....
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
By your inference, anyone who is irked by their baiting bullshit is an alt-right....
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 27, 2022, 04:11:55 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 27, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
If anything WOTC has so far put out LESS than TSR ever did. Possibly 90% or more is done by other groups they allow to or license to.
TSR had colouring books, colourforms, kids books, toys, action figures, freaking D&D candy! What does WOTC have that isnt made by someone else? A few PDF colouring books and maybe a kids book set?
"Lifestyle" has no meaning. It is just another trendy buzzword to chirp.
Most of the non-game stuff from the 80s was licensed out as well. I think WotC wants to make D&D a "lifestyle brand," but while they've been pushing that way, the intermediate step is "multimedia franchise," which they haven't pulled off yet. We'll see how the movie turns out.
True. But WOTC can barely find their own asses let alone make a "lifestyle". Its just a trendy marketing word to them. Mearls was chirping these left and right during the playtest and launch of 5e. None of it ever had any meaning. But it sure gets people riled up over nothing.
TSR was on the shelves of convenience stores, shops, you name it. WOTCs D&D isnt event a tenth that. So far I've seen Essentials and Basic on the shelves and that it. Barnes & Nobles carried for a while the plush dice bags that were made by some other group licensed to WOTC. And that just short of it. WOTC D&D has no presence.
As for the movie. Odds are its going to be worse than the Solomon one. (who has his name attached to the upcomming one) Which actually was not all that bad. Just not quite D&D enough. The 2nd one that did not have his involvement, but had to license from him permission, was so far the mode D&D of the set and got a fair amount done with the smaller budget.
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 07:10:14 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
By your inference, anyone who is irked by their baiting bullshit is an alt-right....
I am not certain that is his inference, but since he mentions Crawford by name, I am pretty sure Crawford would call anyone who did not vote for Biden alt right.
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 27, 2022, 10:23:46 PM
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
The proof is that when there were women warriors people noticed and wrote/told about it. Because it was so fucking rare, except in sieges, the loosing city womenfolk commonly fought off the invaders, because they were in a siege and couldn't escape.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 27, 2022, 10:23:46 PM
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
The proof is that when there were women warriors people noticed and wrote/told about it. Because it was so fucking rare, except in sieges, the loosing city womenfolk commonly fought off the invaders, because they were in a siege and couldn't escape.
Desperation can inspire greatness, though it's not exactly the sort of thing you want to rely on.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 28, 2022, 08:31:07 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 27, 2022, 10:23:46 PM
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
The proof is that when there were women warriors people noticed and wrote/told about it. Because it was so fucking rare, except in sieges, the loosing city womenfolk commonly fought off the invaders, because they were in a siege and couldn't escape.
Desperation can inspire greatness, though it's not exactly the sort of thing you want to rely on.
True, though, the case could be made that Norse culture allowed women to train with weapons, which made them more capable of fending off attacks, even if they weren't primary warriors.
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 28, 2022, 08:41:58 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 28, 2022, 08:31:07 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 27, 2022, 10:23:46 PM
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
The proof is that when there were women warriors people noticed and wrote/told about it. Because it was so fucking rare, except in sieges, the loosing city womenfolk commonly fought off the invaders, because they were in a siege and couldn't escape.
Desperation can inspire greatness, though it's not exactly the sort of thing you want to rely on.
True, though, the case could be made that Norse culture allowed women to train with weapons, which made them more capable of fending off attacks, even if they weren't primary warriors.
As long as there's evidence for it.
Quote from: RPGPundit on March 27, 2022, 10:23:46 PM
It's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
I'd agree about a historical setting. When I ran a semi-historical vikings game, any women warriors were the rare exception even though they were known in folklore. However, that makes women warrior fit fine with the Mongoose game since it is about re-interpreted mythology. This is the description I see:
QuoteYou are a daughter of Freya, blessed by the divine. It is your task to free Yggdrasil from the tyrannical forces that control the greatest source of power: Ymir's Blood. Elves have been ripping worlds apart for it, and Fenrir is killing Midgard with their constant drilling. The lifeblood of worlds is almost spent, and the Shield Maidens are the only thing that stands between the spring and fimbulwinter. You will meet all manner of mythical and technological figures throughout your journeys on the Bifrost, and you alone can save them.
Shield Maidens brings Vikings and cyberpunk together, melding to form a Norse inspired science-fiction tabletop roleplaying game.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 28, 2022, 12:38:30 PM
As long as there's evidence for it.
I've seen a few accounts where women took up arms in desperate moments.
But these are few and far between the vast majority that do not for whatever reasons.
None of which has a thing to do with Radiant Citadel.
And as usual. After the initial baiting they go quiet about what all else is in the book. SOP WOTC now-a-days.
I doubt it will actually be an adventure book without any conflict or anything like that.
The worst thing about the book is how uncreative this is. You have multiverse location that brings together people from many fantasy worlds based on Earth's cultures. So it's just like an average big US city. Scratch that. It's worse than that since big cities have racial tensions, crime, conflict, dark alleys etc. Everything that Radiant Citadel lacks.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 27, 2022, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 24, 2022, 08:41:06 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2022, 08:10:38 PM
Eh, we do not know that yet and odds are WOTC is being deceptive again in some manner.
The very adventures set in the city show its not all sparkles and rainbows. The mask slips before its even out the gate.
They want people to bitch about it.
Outrage Marketing? Well, WotC drones do have a tendency to buy anything they make, regardless of how craptastic it is.
Hmmm, do you think that Mongoose is doing the same thing with Shield Maidens?
Is outrage marketing the new thing in game advertising?
I think they just like tweaking the alt-right in the same manner the alt-right likes tweaking the SJWs.
Impliying that anyone who doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...
No you just made a false inference. They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
Okay then, you're still wrong, they do it to inject their ideology or destroy the vehicle. Any of those is a win for them.
If that were the case, they wouldn't SAY they're doing it and then end up not doing it. They'd actually do it if the point were to actually change people's ideology, right? Naw, it's to tweak people off. Which is a proven strategy to gain attention. Heck, it was a major component of Trump's marketing for his campaign.
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 07:10:14 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
By your inference, anyone who is irked by their baiting bullshit is an alt-right....
I literally just said the opposite in the very paragraph you quoted. You cannot make that inference if you comprehended the paragraph.
The alt-right is a sub-category of "people not on the left." Their intent is to piss off that sub-category. If you are also pissed off about it also, that doesn't make you a member of the sub-category, it just makes you a member of the large group of "people not on the left" who are pissed by it. You're not their target - the alt-right is their target. You are merely collateral damage and/or a bonus, depending on their view of things.
The intent, I believe, is to spread word about the product by upsetting people they perceive to be both unpopular in the larger audience they're actually targeting for sales, AND who talk about it a lot on the Internet. This is, again, a strategy Trump also used - piss off loud progressives who complain on the Internet about Trump a whole lot, which gets the attention of the rest of the nation which isn't enamored with progressives. It's a marketing technique which costs very little in marketing dollars but gains a large bang for those few resources in attention. In this case they perceive the alt-right to be relatively unpopular with the larger general target audience for D&D products right now, but also prone to complain loudly about WOTC products on the Internet. Which attracts the attention of the target larger general population not particularly enamored by the alt-right.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 29, 2022, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 07:10:14 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
By your inference, anyone who is irked by their baiting bullshit is an alt-right....
I literally just said the opposite in the very paragraph you quoted. You cannot make that inference if you comprehended the paragraph.
The alt-right is a sub-category of "people not on the left." Their intent is to piss off that sub-category. If you are also pissed off about it also, that doesn't make you a member of the sub-category, it just makes you a member of the large group of "people not on the left" who are pissed by it. You're not their target - the alt-right is their target. You are merely collateral damage and/or a bonus, depending on their view of things.
The intent, I believe, is to spread word about the product by upsetting people they perceive to be both unpopular in the larger audience they're actually targeting for sales, AND who talk about it a lot on the Internet. This is, again, a strategy Trump also used - piss off loud progressives who complain on the Internet about Trump a whole lot, which gets the attention of the rest of the nation which isn't enamored with progressives. It's a marketing technique which costs very little in marketing dollars but gains a large bang for those few resources in attention. In this case they perceive the alt-right to be relatively unpopular with the larger general target audience for D&D products right now, but also prone to complain loudly about WOTC products on the Internet. Which attracts the attention of the target larger general population not particularly enamored by the alt-right.
It isn't as much about comprehending the paragraph, but about comprehending your intent.
I especially like your Trump whataboutism. Nice touch that.
Quote from: Mistwell on March 29, 2022, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on March 27, 2022, 07:10:14 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on March 27, 2022, 04:04:47 PM
They are DOING IT to piss off the alt-right. That it also pisses off others who are not part of the alt-right isn't their aim. They might enjoy that as a side effect or might not, but I think their aim is to piss off the alt-right.
By your inference, anyone who is irked by their baiting bullshit is an alt-right....
I literally just said the opposite in the very paragraph you quoted. You cannot make that inference if you comprehended the paragraph.
The alt-right is a sub-category of "people not on the left." Their intent is to piss off that sub-category. If you are also pissed off about it also, that doesn't make you a member of the sub-category, it just makes you a member of the large group of "people not on the left" who are pissed by it. You're not their target - the alt-right is their target. You are merely collateral damage and/or a bonus, depending on their view of things.
The intent, I believe, is to spread word about the product by upsetting people they perceive to be both unpopular in the larger audience they're actually targeting for sales, AND who talk about it a lot on the Internet. This is, again, a strategy Trump also used - piss off loud progressives who complain on the Internet about Trump a whole lot, which gets the attention of the rest of the nation which isn't enamored with progressives. It's a marketing technique which costs very little in marketing dollars but gains a large bang for those few resources in attention. In this case they perceive the alt-right to be relatively unpopular with the larger general target audience for D&D products right now, but also prone to complain loudly about WOTC products on the Internet. Which attracts the attention of the target larger general population not particularly enamored by the alt-right.
But you're totally not saying that anyone that doesn't like the turd sandwhich is part of the Alt-Right...
I don't understand why they can't just bring back Planescape. Sigil was awesome. Planescape: Torment really sold how amazing the place is.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 29, 2022, 07:34:13 PM
I don't understand why they can't just bring back Planescape. Sigil was awesome. Planescape: Torment really sold how amazing the place is.
Considering how badly WotC handles everything, I'm glad they're leaving Planescape the F alone. Given how Planescape was the setting that basically introduced Tieflings, which appeal to a certain crowd, imagine how bad they would wokeify Sigil. The Lady of Pain would be LGBTBBQ+ and zapping people for misgendering her (which would probably be "them" now, or maybe "xer").
Quote from: VisionStorm on March 29, 2022, 08:02:40 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 29, 2022, 07:34:13 PM
I don't understand why they can't just bring back Planescape. Sigil was awesome. Planescape: Torment really sold how amazing the place is.
Considering how badly WotC handles everything, I'm glad they're leaving Planescape the F alone. Given how Planescape was the setting that basically introduced Tieflings, which appeal to a certain crowd, imagine how bad they would wokeify Sigil. The Lady of Pain would be LGBTBBQ+ and zapping people for misgendering her (which would probably be "them" now, or maybe "xer").
Yep, just leave Planescape alone...and that 'certain crowd' wouldn't last 5 minutes playing an actual tiefling back in 2e Sigil.
"Wait. What do you mean no one trusts me and some merchants are overcharging me...and the Hardheads always question me first when there's a disturbance..." ;D ;D
Quote from: Mistwell on March 29, 2022, 04:26:20 PM
The intent, I believe, is to spread word about the product by upsetting people they perceive to be both unpopular in the larger audience they're actually targeting for sales, AND who talk about it a lot on the Internet.
The Alt-Right were effectively banned from social media almost five years ago, so I'm guessing you don't mean the Alt-Right.
Quote from: Overcrowdedmarketplace on March 29, 2022, 03:34:15 PM
I doubt it will actually be an adventure book without any conflict or anything like that.
The worst thing about the book is how uncreative this is. You have multiverse location that brings together people from many fantasy worlds based on Earth's cultures. So it's just like an average big US city. Scratch that. It's worse than that since big cities have racial tensions, crime, conflict, dark alleys etc. Everything that Radiant Citadel lacks.
At least two of the mentioned adventures are conflict oriented in some manner. I'm guessing its going to be like Candlekeep where its all over the place in theme and tone.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on March 23, 2022, 04:58:04 PM
Trust me, I don't think the leftards even realized that the only way their Utopia cuold exist is with a strong man dictator with an iron hand in a very thin velvet glove fascist.
Doesn't mean my analysis isn't spot on IMHO. There's no way this place could ever exist without some type of fascist magic involved.
Agreed.
This level of understanding begins with the naive belief that their philosophy is so compelling that everyone will simply comply, and ends with the authoritarian belief that it'd all work out if only they had the power to make choices for others, and at no point is the middle of this dilemma explored.
Any place that wants to maintain peace that isnt somehow magically and thoroughly screened is going to need some manner of policing to put down every maniac out there that wants to destroy it for the giggles. Or people who think peace is boring. Or any given lunatic that thinks peace is oppression.
To have and maintain a utopia you are going to have to fight tooth and nail to keep it and find solutions to problems that dont end up turning the whole thing into a living hell.
So Radiant Citadel reads like its a place running on goodwill and probably has some sort of screening or violence damper for entry otherwise it it falls apart ASAP. As said. Sigil without the grime, and better policed.
People are going to buy the book just out of curiosity about these sorts of off topic discussions to see how they pull it off. Which is likely going to be another Candlekeep affair. For that matter Candlekeep has various defenses installed to keep things running.
QuoteIt's funny, the idea that "shield maidens" are somehow a conservative symbol, given that the very concept of "shield maidens" is a historically dubious idea that got pushed into this narrative of "there were entire batallions of shield maidens in every viking army" by feminist academics.
Were there some women who fought with viking men? Almost certainly. But there's very little proof that they were anything but rare, and mostly existed only in folk tales and mythology. There's no evidence that women were regularly warriors.
I mean sure shield maidens are historically innacurate, but they are mythically accurate which from conservative perspective is probably more important.
Just like Hellada was with exception of Sparta, so patriarchal even Afghan talibs could have lil problem with it - and yet Greek mythology is full of Powerpuff Girls.
QuoteTrue, though, the case could be made that Norse culture allowed women to train with weapons, which made them more capable of fending off attacks, even if they weren't primary warriors.
Well if we want more extreme and I think better sourced elements we have Manchu people - where women were obliged to have military training as light cavalry before marrying off.
This culture was destroyed because after Manchu conquest of China, Manchu noblewomen started to mimic Chinese elite women customs as more refined (like feet bonding) which obviously was generally opposite of how Manchu ladies were raised up, and despite apparent attempts from Manchu men to stop it - they went full Chinese within few generations, and modern Manchurians are culturally Chinese in most aspects, their language dying off.
There are also sources about some nomadic Iranic people of Scythian origin (dunno if not about Sarmatians) - where women of noble birth could not get married before killing enemy on battlefield. They were also trained as light cavalry - so women alongside elderly warriors and teenagers were fending off potential robers and protecting herds when men were away conquering some less nomadic foreigners.
I guess adopting pirate lifestyle by North Germanic men could lead to simmilar evolution - everyone was supposed to have some training to fend of threats when most adult able bodied men were reaving.
QuoteYep, just leave Planescape alone...and that 'certain crowd' wouldn't last 5 minutes playing an actual tiefling back in 2e Sigil.
I must say - while I can see tieflings being commonly persecuted in Material Prime planets... why would they really be in Top Neutral Sigil - where beings way more tainted with fiendishness are not uncommon.
QuoteThe Alt-Right were effectively banned from social media almost five years ago, so I'm guessing you don't mean the Alt-Right.
Not all. Twitter sort of - but also most vocal pundits. Facebook? There's always lots of cozy private groups around.
Another old one from TSR.
The Irendie Islands. This is pretty much the safest kingdom on Mystara. No enemies and the place is a vacation and tourist attraction. Its not 100% but its as close as one gets probably in a world full of dangerous thingies around every bush.