Quick background: I returned to so-called "old school" D&D a few months ago with my sons and online.  I initially chose BFRPG (can't beat the price for the material available) and I like it just fine.  But I've started to dislike some of its particular idiosyncrasies.

Since then, I've acquired and enjoyed LL for its ease of use as a clone, S&W Complete, and ACKS.  I've also read a half a dozen others as well.

In about 6 months, it looks like I might get my wish to begin a campaign with my regular tabletop group.  After much thought, I had basically settled on ACKS.  I love the economy and domain rules, I like the number of classes, the compromise between "race+class" and "race as class" would be easier to sell to my players than race as class, and the proficiencies would provide the extra customization my players are used to.

But as I've continued planning, the odd mechanics that insist on a d20 for everything, and the odd way of doing combat rolls, have me thinking again.  I think my players are sick of rolling a single d20 for everything, and I like the use of the humble d6 in B/X exploration.

So I'm considering a possible hack.  Would either of the following two options be possible, and if so, which would be easier:
1) Use the price lists and domain rules from ACKS in another system (say, LL).
2) Converting existing B/X material (AC, attacks, and morale specifically) into ACKS.

I'd like to get what is best from ACKS but ideally use an "older" system like LL.
Any thoughts?

It should be very straight forward to take the price list from ACKS and use it for your campaign. If you add to it items from the lists in other games, you should be able to find a number of common items, work out if there is a conversion factor and then apply that to standardise items to the ACKS scale. Much of the domain rules from ACKS should therefore follow as they're supposed to be based on the cost of living for labourers, etc. which is determined by the price list of items/services.

What you might have to keep an eye on is the treasure values from modules. If the module's system has a cheaper economy, the treasure might be too little in an ACKS economy and so would have to bolstered. Or the module's system might be the other way around.

Quote from: Stainless;890473It should be very straight forward to take the price list from ACKS and use it for your campaign. If you add to it items from the lists in other games, you should be able to find a number of common items, work out if there is a conversion factor and then apply that to standardise items to the ACKS scale. Much of the domain rules from ACKS should therefore follow as they're supposed to be based on the cost of living for labourers, etc. which is determined by the price list of items/services.

What you might have to keep an eye on is the treasure values from modules. If the module's system has a cheaper economy, the treasure might be too little in an ACKS economy and so would have to bolstered. Or the module's system might be the other way around.

Thanks, that's helpful.  I must admit that it's another complication that I would need to do "translation" of treasure in other published material.

I just want it all and I want to be lazy about it.

It shouldn't be that hard or exact. If you've got a module written for S&W, just look through the price list in the S&W rulebook and compare it to your ACKS list. You could make a basket of goods (50' oil, rope, 10' pole, long sword, etc.) from each list and total up each basket. Then divide one total by the other to get a ratio. If it's close to 1:1, you're good to go as is. If it's more like 1:2, you just have to double (or halve, depending on which way you're going) the treasure in the fly. I wouldn't sweat anything other than a whole number ratio.

Quote from: drkrash;890465But as I've continued planning, the odd mechanics that insist on a d20 for everything, and the odd way of doing combat rolls, have me thinking again.  I think my players are sick of rolling a single d20 for everything, and I like the use of the humble d6 in B/X exploration.

So I'm considering a possible hack.  Would either of the following two options be possible, and if so, which would be easier:
1) Use the price lists and domain rules from ACKS in another system (say, LL).
2) Converting existing B/X material (AC, attacks, and morale specifically) into ACKS.

I'd like to get what is best from ACKS but ideally use an "older" system like LL.
Any thoughts?

The combat rolls are easy to modify to regular d20 style or whatever else. I personally just use a THAC0-style to-hit bar and list bonuses from STR or whatever to-hit (+3, dagger, 1d4+1) and call it a day.

I'd be curious which d20 rolls have been deemed "too much" - that's a new one on me. Thief skills? A lot of ACKS' d20 rolls are more-or-less equivalent to d6 rolls; the 11+/7+/3+ proficiency rolls are very close to 3+/2+/1+ on a d6, for example.  

ACKS' treasure lists tie in pretty well with the domain/economic/trade rules, so I'd port them with anything else. Class XP-wise, ACKS follows B/X-LL, so. I don't know offhand how the treasure amounts from BX/LL follow ACKS' general recommendation of 4-to-1 monster-treasure to monster-xp, but, hell, that's easily sorted or fudged. Ain't nobody runs it by the book.

Both routes are possible and easy, but I agree with the posters above; if you don't care for the d20 standard and the ACKS way of expressing AC and attack rolls, using ACKS price lists and the domain game info in LL is probably the way to go.  

I wouldn't even worry about conversion rates for treasure; if an adventure is on a gold standard you're probably in the ballpark.  You can reality check against the 4:1 gold:monster xp ratio and the average value of treasure hoards if you really want, but honestly I don't even do that when I'm running book ACKS - I take rolled treasure even when it's swingy.

Somewhere a blogger had a conversion chart of d6 rolls to d20 target numbers (and maybe %s as well), and I can't for the life of me remember who it was.  It wouldn't even be hard to work up again, but I hate reinventing the wheel.  But that's a resource to look for if you were to run with an ACKS base after all.

The ACKS price lists are important as well? (Though that's not a big deal to use).

koewn, the deal with the d20 thing is not about probabilities; I understand those are the same.  But part of my desire to do this campaign is also nostalgic, which involves d20s to attack, d6s for exploration, and d100s for thief skills.  My group has done mostly d20 gaming for the last decade; we're all a little tired of "one die to rule them all."  It's purely an affective/aesthetic thing, not a mechanical thing.

Quote from: drkrash;890465So I'm considering a possible hack.  Would either of the following two options be possible, and if so, which would be easier:

1) Use the price lists and domain rules from ACKS in another system (say, LL).

Easy to do. My Microlite81 Complete and Advanced games (Microlite20-based version of B/X) basically borrow the ACKS equipment list and economic system. They don't include the detailed rules for domains from ACKS but the ACKS rules would pretty much work in either. All versions of M81 use a D20 for combat as most D20 games do, but use D6s for most of the stuff B/X did. No ACKS-like proficiencies, but some versions do include backgrounds (not in the same way 5e does, however.)

Added in Edit: This isn't a suggestion to use some version of M81 rather a "since it was easy to do this for my B/X variant, it should be just as easy to do stuff like this for B/X" type of statement.

Quote2) Converting existing B/X material (AC, attacks, and morale specifically) into ACKS.

Not that hard. Some threads on the Autarch forum talk about such conversions. This thread, for example:

http://www.autarch.co/forums/general-discussion/converting-everything-babbth

Quote from: drkrash;890465Quick background: I returned to so-called "old school" D&D a few months ago with my sons and online.

Welcome back into the fold.

Quote from: drkrash;8904652) Converting existing B/X material (AC, attacks, and morale specifically) into ACKS.

Swapping out the d20 "throws" for whatever classic mechanic you want looks a lot easier, to me, than converting the whole damn economy. Even more so since you're also committed to ACKS classes and proficiencies.

Oh, and AC is a breeze:

• Ascending AC = ACKS AC+10
• Descending AC (B/X or BECMI/RC) = 9-ACKS AC
• Descending AC (AD&D) = 10-ACKS AC

I also second koewn's recommendation of checking out the Autarch forums. Plenty of hacking going on over there.

The Autarch boards were Randall's suggestion, but I'd concur It's a good, helpful place for all manner of stuff.

Most of the stagger-step proficiency rolls can translate to d6 pretty easily; d20s obviously take to d100 well; so. I know one guy that was translating almost all of it back to all d6/2d6, a'la Chainmail, which was entertaining.

Let us know what you do!

Quote from: drkrash;890465Quick background: I returned to so-called "old school" D&D a few months ago with my sons and online.  I initially chose BFRPG (can't beat the price for the material available) and I like it just fine.  But I've started to dislike some of its particular idiosyncrasies.

Since then, I've acquired and enjoyed LL for its ease of use as a clone, S&W Complete, and ACKS.  I've also read a half a dozen others as well.

In about 6 months, it looks like I might get my wish to begin a campaign with my regular tabletop group.  After much thought, I had basically settled on ACKS.  I love the economy and domain rules, I like the number of classes, the compromise between "race+class" and "race as class" would be easier to sell to my players than race as class, and the proficiencies would provide the extra customization my players are used to.

But as I've continued planning, the odd mechanics that insist on a d20 for everything, and the odd way of doing combat rolls, have me thinking again.  I think my players are sick of rolling a single d20 for everything, and I like the use of the humble d6 in B/X exploration.

So I'm considering a possible hack.  Would either of the following two options be possible, and if so, which would be easier:
1) Use the price lists and domain rules from ACKS in another system (say, LL).
2) Converting existing B/X material (AC, attacks, and morale specifically) into ACKS.

I'd like to get what is best from ACKS but ideally use an "older" system like LL.
Any thoughts?

I think either of those are totally possible. What isn't possible is just using the B/X price lists with the ACKS economics system.

This has all been super helpful; thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I may be changing the plan.  I was talking to one of my players (who is usually the most dedicated, so his interests hold a certain priority with me) about the differences in OSR rules sets.  

While admitting that he wasn't too concerned about it one way or the other, he did offer a few things that would matter more to him (a strong economic system, non-Vancian magic if possible, available support - esp. free support) and things that didn't matter to him (what dice he rolls

As it turns out, ACKS as is seemed to fit pretty well, so I *may* just play it straight - and if d20s really bug me that much, I can still roll d6s for exploration behind the screen.

Slightly off-topic, but still related: anyone have thoughts on the Old School Renaissance Handbook as a way to compare systems? Is it worth 7 bucks?

Quote from: drkrash;891749This has all been super helpful; thanks to everyone who has contributed.

....

As it turns out, ACKS as is seemed to fit pretty well, so I *may* just play it straight - and if d20s really bug me that much, I can still roll d6s for exploration behind the screen.

Slightly off-topic, but still related: anyone have thoughts on the Old School Renaissance Handbook as a way to compare systems? Is it worth 7 bucks?

Good deal. Come on by the Autarch forums and say hi!

OSR Handbook: I haven't seen it, though I note that the majority of systems referenced are free to download.