"Jeffrogaxian D&D"

Tristan · April 10, 2025, 12:46:28 PM

I have little problem going as btb as possible. I do know in older games that can be as issue. I really do like 1e AD&D, it has the most flavor of any of the editions, but there are contradictions that have to be worked out.

I posted once about Gary's comments on how he ran his barbarian in a party with magic users and what that looked like. The general response was "I don't care how Gary did it, btb says..." Cool, then we clearly aren't going to have a conversation.

For me, the rules are read in context of what the designer does (or doesn't do), to understand the spirit.
I get that some people are about the letter.

Sometimes, it's just what works best at our table.

blackstone · April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PM

Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org.

It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.

Enjoy.

UPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.

that is all. carry on...But PLEASE read more. the thread over there is sarcasm abound.

Omega · April 10, 2025, 05:00:27 PM

Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 12:17:33 PM
Quote from: Venka on April 09, 2025, 10:12:26 AMAnd the by-the-book answer is no, because there's nothing in the book that implies that or lets anyone respec in general.

It doesn't say in the DMG or PHB either way. There is no hard rule, therefore it's up to the DM to decide.

The rules also do not say a PC cannot flap their arms and fly.

Tristan · April 11, 2025, 12:52:52 AM

I think both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law here are pretty clear. Just a player being a player trying to work things to his advantage.

RPGPundit · April 12, 2025, 07:10:02 AM

Quote from: Digitalelf on April 05, 2025, 11:05:47 PMFrom what I understand, Jeffro has retired from the BROSR.
And the new leadership is trying to rebrand themselves in order to become less antagonistic.

That's funny because I suspect Jeffro was pandering to them in the first place.

RPGPundit · April 12, 2025, 07:11:38 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them. I don't know who this Jeffro guy is beyond the name and I don't care what he has to say about anything. He doesn't seem to really be any sort of authority on what Gygax did at his table and I don't particularly care about Gygax or what he did anyway. From what I can tell, this is the OSR's tendency toward one-true-wayism cranked up to absurdity.

This right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.

But yeah Gyax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gyax's.

The only thing I'd disagree with you is I think OneTrueWayism has died out, it was more common in the early OSR when the sole point was attempting to emulate a style of play which was not in print at the time, since then the amount of OSR games that aren't just B/X or Advanced clones has skyrocketed. the last vestiges of OneTrueWayism are loud people on Twitter.

Well you might never have heard of them, but there was a while when they were en masse trolling every part of the OSR claiming that people should never play OSR games because "AD&D1e (Jeffro Version)" was the only game anyone should ever play.

RPGPundit · April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.

She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.

or, let's not get into the cancellation game

I thought this group didn't do stuff like that

if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them

That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".

Jason Coplen · April 12, 2025, 10:55:27 AM

Quote from: blackstone on April 09, 2025, 09:19:45 AMSpeaking of "Jeffrogaxian" or BRosr. Check out this thread at Dragonsfoot.org.

It starts off pretty well on a discussion on if you can drop a multi-class to a single class. Everyone is giving suggestions, and most are reasonable. It's at page 3 where the derailment starts. I suggest that a DM (like myself) can do whatever they want. The user Chevale Manor then says "that is not btb" and his "one true way"-ism goes on from there in the thread.

Enjoy.

I almost forgot Dragonsfoot was still around. It's sure not as cool as it was circa 2003.

Heavy Josh · April 13, 2025, 09:32:43 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:11:38 AMWell you might never have heard of them, but there was a while when they were en masse trolling every part of the OSR claiming that people should never play OSR games because "AD&D1e (Jeffro Version)" was the only game anyone should ever play.

I found their claim, that anyone who wasn't playing RPGs their way had never been playing correctly, to be so laughable that I thought it was parody at first.

Heavy Josh · April 13, 2025, 09:33:21 PM

Quote from: FishMeisterSupreme on April 05, 2025, 09:50:39 PMJew-haters blame anything and everything on the Jews. Their computer shut off out of nowhere? A Rabbi in New York used his kabbalistic magics to shut off his computer. He stubbed his toe on a rock in the middle of the sidewalk? A Jew placed it there using his Talmudic divining skills. He shit his pants? A Jew poisoned his non-kosher food using ancient tricks to destroy the goyim. So on and so forth.

These people would even blame Woke DND on Jews. 'The Jews imported infinite immigrants, following ancient instructions from (made up book) of the Talmud into the DND community for the sole purpose of undermining the Aryan DND community', says the Mexican born and raised in Mexico.

The mindset of these people is JEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEWJEW... with occasional, if fleeting, interruptions of BLACKS or WOMEN or GAYS. They live for Jews. They live despite Jews. They need the Jews. But the Jews do not need them.

To be fair, all that was me. But it was just one hilarious bender of a weekend.

Insane Nerd Ramblings · April 14, 2025, 01:17:22 AM

Quote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.

Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).

blackstone · April 14, 2025, 09:29:50 AM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 14, 2025, 01:17:22 AM
Quote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.

Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).

Yep. I copied the tables from the DA book and put them in the thread as well.

This guy's zealot-like adherence to RAW is comical, even with all of the contradictions within AD&D that everyone has pointed out.

MerrillWeathermay · April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.

She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.

or, let's not get into the cancellation game

I thought this group didn't do stuff like that

if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them

That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".

I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.

If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?

JanDevries · April 14, 2025, 08:19:54 PM

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 14, 2025, 07:32:51 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 12, 2025, 07:14:26 AM
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 08, 2025, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 04:26:02 PMSeriously, if any of you have a good relationship with Kelsey Dionne, you should warn her. I can share (and have recently) on my X account MULTIPLE tweets expressing Jeffro's hatred of jews, gays, etc. And many of the BroSR only care about being in the BroSR because its a place they can feel safe to express how much they hate jews or other races.

She ought to be warned, because I'm guessing she doesn't know (because Jeffro is deceptive and hides that part as much as he can), and if she keeps associating with him it will eventually blow up in her face as soon as someone less nice than I am notices and wants to cause trouble for her.

or, let's not get into the cancellation game

I thought this group didn't do stuff like that

if we don't like the brosr guys, simply ignore them

That's not the way to handle scum. Particularly if said scum is being promoted by the hot new commodity, who probably doesn't know how much they despise "the gays".

I looked around for the "antisemitic" posts from jeffro, or even anti-gay stuff, and I haven't been able to find anything.

If this guy is truly "scum" as you say, can you point me to some proof?

I'm not that familiar with Jeffro, but I did find this blog post about him after a quick Google search.
https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/do-you-remember-jeffro-johnson/

Johnson works with Vox Day and is published by the latter's company, Castalia House. Day himself is an unapologetic bigot who has endorsed throwing acid in womens' faces. Jeffro hasn't endorsed such behavior that I'm aware of, but working with or for someone like Vox Day is a definite choice. But that's a conversation this forum probably isn't ready to have, as Alexander Macris is well liked here, and has ties to Day as well.

Brad · April 14, 2025, 08:40:39 PM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 14, 2025, 01:17:22 AM
Quote from: blackstone on April 10, 2025, 02:28:26 PMUPDATE: as of right now, Dragonlance Adventures is not AD&D and half-elves cannot be paladins according to Chevale Manor.

Hah, apparently Hill Dwarf Fighter/Clerics cannot actually advance as high as they're listed in Unearthed Arcana if we go 'By the Book!' (Yes, I posted this on my Twitter account for those that saw it).

It wouldn't be AD&D without contradictions. That's part of the charm...I will say, though, that AD&D had more actual playtesting than just about any game that came after it, so when people smack talk Gygax they're essentially saying they do not understand game design at all.

Also I don't know who these BrOSR guys are but just sound like rubes trying to ride the coattails of Gygax et al to give their moronic ideas some legitimacy.