Quote from: SHARK on April 06, 2025, 03:20:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 05, 2025, 03:28:57 PMJeffro is a grifter and a liar, and uses Gygax to reinforce his own idiotic ideas about AD&D which were not how anyone actually played.
Most of the BroSR don't actually play D&D. They just enjoy being in an online community where they can brag about how tough they are and being a community where they feel safe to share how anti-semitic they are.

The awful thing is that Shadowdark's author recently said she thought they had interesting ideas. I'm guessing no one has told her about all the antisemitism and anti-gay diatribes by Jeffro. I tried, but she might have me muted, because like a lot of people she doesn't know who her real enemies are.

Greetings!

I'm guessing that Kelsey was simply being diplomatic, and polite. Kelsey is strictly professional, and obviously works hard to cultivate gamers and fans--and while not being offensive to anyone or getting sucked into wallowing in the mud with trolls. Kelsey seems to place a very high priority on her game books being accessible and enjoyable for anyone and everyone. Kelsey is not interested in arguing controversial subjects that have nothing to do with gaming in general, and more importantly, her business, her products, and her reputation as a professional writer and game designer.

That's my impression.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yes. This. Kelsey is never going to get involved in discussing anti-Semitism in the  BrOSR. Just like she won't discuss Woke stuff, including Woke anti-Semitism. Her no politics rule is very strict. And she doesn't respond to "You should not associate with these people" posts.

Looked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them.  I don't know who this Jeffro guy is beyond the name and I don't care what he has to say about anything.  He doesn't seem to really be any sort of authority on what Gygax did at his table and I don't particularly care about Gygax or what he did anyway.  From what I can tell, this is the OSR's tendency toward one-true-wayism cranked up to absurdity.   

This right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.

But yeah Gyax shouldn't be treated as some saint or prophet of gaming, he was a good designer, that's all, and even then I still prefer some of Dave Arneson or Tom Moldvay ideas to Gyax's.


The only thing I'd disagree with you is I think OneTrueWayism has died out, it was more common in the early OSR when the sole point was attempting to emulate a style of play which was not in print at the time, since then the amount of OSR games that aren't just B/X or Advanced clones has skyrocketed. the last vestiges of OneTrueWayism are loud people on Twitter.

Quote from: Kuroth on April 06, 2025, 04:55:32 AMLooked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.

These idiots are never harmless.

Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2025, 10:59:40 PM

Quote from: Kuroth on April 06, 2025, 04:55:32 AMLooked thru #BrOSR #Jeffrogaxian for a few minutes on X. Harmless.

These idiots are never harmless.

silly

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on April 05, 2025, 09:17:10 PMSo my latest interaction with the Bro's is "It's not attacking you if I say you never played AD&D cause you didn't run rule XYZ like we do or that I called you an asshole'. So I guess being a rude dickwad is just 'how some people are on the Internet and you shouldn't take it personally'.

That's the biggest reason they are trash. The passive-aggressive "it's okay to admit you're not playing AD&D" shit they spout out constantly to sound superior to anyone else. It's somewhat understandable the idea that the game is "better" playing it RAW, but their attitude that you're not "doing it right" if you don't is why they get hated.

Before he took a break from interacting about the OSR, did Jeffro ever provide any commentary on AD&D 1e's initiative play?  That's a guaranteed way to wind up conversation about first edition AD&D on the intarwebz, and if you're claiming to be an oracle of it, wouldn't you have had to throw your hat in that ring at some point? 

 

Quote from: yosemitemike on April 05, 2025, 01:32:22 AMThe only reason I have even heard of the Brosr is Pundit's videos mentioning them.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on April 06, 2025, 12:55:13 PMThis right here, I had never heard of this three-piece-chicken-mcnobody until Pundit whined and winged about him. Pundit makes a bad habit of signal boosting people he doesn't like.

Here's a not-too-distant interview with him that is on a channel I at least would argue is pretty notable, reasonable, and important:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HQAJkeSvEU

He has been around the OSR/D&D community at the edges and has interesting interactions sometimes.  I don't hang out on the X.com webzone so I don't get the sharp edges of any of his fans, but when Pundit said "Nazis get the hammer" on twitter and was mass reported and banned for inciting violence (for referencing the banhammer), which took time and doing to get back, I'm gonna go ahead and point out that some of the people in this group are pretty clearly fanatics.  Jeffro, when he is active, does have some people who kinda follow him around and get into shenanigans, and Pundit pointing out edgyboi antisemitism is pretty much spot on- I don't think that's the defining element, but I haven't done a deep dive or anything. 

The idea of stirring up a controversy that is adjacent to the OSR (a type of fundamentalist arguing from a specific corpus is not really any kind of game design discussion though) is kind of interesting, and demanding weird play schedules and incredibly real time DMing, like basically claiming that you have to be running a MUD at all times in your notes and in your head, it's... I mean, it's interesting and I can't be mad at all that people are trying it.  The idea is appealing.  The basis- that it's the true way or even that it was done that way at all is pretty much bullshit though.  But it's still people choosing to believe in something and do cool hobby shit as a result so I just can't be too pissed about it.

It does seem like there's some weird pressure to do these open table games - Kelsey keeps bringing it up in all her interviews. I'd probably play in one but I don't really have any interest in running them or playing them regularly.

The "open table" stuff only really works in two cases: Online or if you run them at a game store/club, the latter of which actually makes sense to do since it's the OG "TSR Hobby Shop" style, and public games can easily fall apart if some people stop showing or can't make it some weeks. Anything else is IMHO trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

In my wiser years, I have come to realize that personality problems really do create problems for the games you create and play. Putting your name in a portmanteau with the original creator of D&D might indicate a slightly oversized ego.