Jeff Dee claiming VV GoFundME

urbwar · September 24, 2015, 02:19:50 PM

Quote from: Brad;857437But, again, $50k? Say he sells 3000 copies at $25 each...that license just isn't worth it.

Of course, Scott Bizar supposedly thought it was worth more than that, hence the legal battle to begin with (or so I've read).

Do I think it's worth that much? Likely not. But legal fees being what they are, this is just helping with that.

urbwar · September 24, 2015, 02:21:30 PM

Quote from: Omega;857438Worse than that. 3k print copies is going to cost to print and ship. So gets back even less.

They've been using POD for previous releases, so the cost on printing is only when someone orders it. I'd be surprised if they do a print run unless they run a kickstarter/Indiegogo campaign

James Gillen · September 24, 2015, 07:40:51 PM

Quote from: Mistwell;857475Sorry for the non-sequitur, but based on your avatar, I can't help but read your posts in the voice of George Castanza.

I've said for quite some time that his avatar is extremely appropriate.

JG

Spinachcat · September 24, 2015, 09:28:08 PM

I don't understand the VV issue. Links would be appreciated!!!

I read this and it made me more confused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villains_and_Vigilantes

QuoteA judgment given on July 11, 2012, on the first two counts of case no. 2:2011-cv-02036 in U.S. Federal court, Arizona district ruled in favor siding with Scott Bizar resulting in Jeff Dee and Jack Herman being found guilty of defamation and unfair business practice causing unspecified damages to the plaintiff.

So FGU died in 1991, but remained undead legally...

QuoteIn January 2013, the U.S. District Court of Arizona found[19] that Jeff Dee and Jack Herman own all copyrights to Villains and Vigilantes

...then FGU loses in AZ and VV goes back to its creators!

QuoteOn February 19, Scott Bizar filed an appeal with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

...what happened in the appeals?

Omega · September 25, 2015, 12:28:23 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;857530So FGU died in 1991, but remained undead legally...

...then FGU loses in AZ and VV goes back to its creators!

...what happened in the appeals?

1: Yes. Via a legal loophole FGU was "not really gone" somehow.

2: Correct.

3: At some point FGU got it back, or the designers never really won it back. FGU has been in some ways like Metagaming or Abrams-Gentle. FGU has been selling their stuff from a website.

This will probably keep going back and fourth as long as FGU can find courts agreeable to their case.

Spinachcat · September 25, 2015, 04:14:46 AM

I can only imagine that far more money is going to lawyers than either FGU or Jeff Dee would actually make off selling a new V&V edition.

Appeals ain't cheap.

Omega · September 25, 2015, 05:30:34 AM

At this point it is probably a vendetta sort of thing.

David Johansen · September 25, 2015, 05:48:25 AM

I wonder if the characters are tied up with the IP. Jeff did a V&V miniseries once and superheroes are big right now. Perhaps there is a Crisis at Crusader Citadel movie in the offing.

For all that, having some guy who hasn't sent you a dime in years sitting on your IP must be really awful. Especially with the whole OSR going on and V&V being a couple massive decimal multiplication formuli away from being OD&D.

tenbones · September 25, 2015, 05:36:44 PM

Quote from: Omega;857574At this point it is probably a vendetta sort of thing.

That's what I'm thinking. I've already hit my quota of KS backings for the rest of the year. My CC is smoking and half melted.

James Gillen · September 25, 2015, 09:51:19 PM

Quote from: Omega;857574At this point it is probably a vendetta sort of thing.

Like most legal suits.

JG

David Johansen · September 25, 2015, 11:56:04 PM

Honestly, I hope they clean up the IP issues and move forward. If he's got the fans to make it go, I think it's fine. I'd be happier if they could square up and make good with FGU but clearly that's not going to happen.

I loved V&V back in the day and really, other than the math (and I like physics equations in my games, but this is a superhero game so the math really has no place here) I think it's one of my favorite super systems.

S'mon · September 27, 2015, 08:50:25 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;857573I can only imagine that far more money is going to lawyers than either FGU or Jeff Dee would actually make off selling a new V&V edition.

Appeals ain't cheap.

Yes, this is terrible. Lawyers get fat off emotional people who just won't let it go. The commercial value of the V&V trademark must be far less than either side's legal fees.

Omega · September 27, 2015, 08:58:37 AM

Quote from: S'mon;857875Yes, this is terrible. Lawyers get fat off emotional people who just won't let it go. The commercial value of the V&V trademark must be far less than either side's legal fees.

Sometimes its the principle or just not wanting to see the bad guy win. And from appearances FGU has become that for some weird reason. It starts to feel like FGU has been fucking with them just for the chuckles.

Like Metagaming and Steve Jackson.

S'mon · September 27, 2015, 10:39:27 AM

Quote from: Omega;857876Sometimes its the principle or just not wanting to see the bad guy win. And from appearances FGU has become that for some weird reason. It starts to feel like FGU has been fucking with them just for the chuckles.

Yes, it looks like a grudge match.

Aos · September 27, 2015, 12:54:35 PM

Quote from: David Johansen;857716Honestly, I hope they clean up the IP issues and move forward. If he's got the fans to make it go, I think it's fine. I'd be happier if they could square up and make good with FGU but clearly that's not going to happen.

I loved V&V back in the day and really, other than the math (and I like physics equations in my games, but this is a superhero game so the math really has no place here) I think it's one of my favorite super systems.

Math is surprisingly prevelant in supers games.
But V&V is a lesser offender in that regard, imo, I love it too, and only stopped using it a few years ago.
My dream SRPG is a copy of Icons with the V&V art.