I've been off the treadmill since the end of 2e. I almost got back on for the release of 5e, as it was initially enjoyable. Thankfully the Basic 5e free .pdf helped to wait and see.

I still enjoy 5e, and it is the only WotC D&D I'll still play. But I am only interested in what free .pdfs they'll put out... and maybe a few 5e books that hit the clearance or used shelves if they reach 90+% off MSRP. 

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 29, 2021, 08:28:03 AMI don't mind legitimate criticism of 4E; there's plenty you can level (if there weren't they system I've been working on would still look like a 4E retroclone and not its own thing entirely)... but its really annoying when people level made-up shit about 4E it in order to deride it.

Thank you! Thats saved me allot of time! And I don't even like 4e!

Quote from: Reckall on September 29, 2021, 08:31:06 AMAlso, the characters already start as "Heroes" (and not simply in a narrative way) only to became "Paragons" on the 11th level and "Epic" on the 21st. Basically, the party started as THE AVENGERS and grew from there.

Yes low level 4e is EXACTLY like the Avengers.

Its also icky and yucky and smells of farts, and probably has cooties.

Quote from: thedungeondelver on September 28, 2021, 11:03:07 PM
Are they, though?

Where's the posters, the lunch-boxes, the flood of new video games, the multiple TV shows, an official Hasbro/D&D Youtube channel, clothes (and no, 80s tees and that one guy who makes incredibly overpriced junk jewelry don't count), placemats, branded cereal, etc.

They basically are. WotC has video game studios under their purview now. And they have been pretty open about trying to turn out a AAA D&D video game.

There is a netflix series in development, and they have a movie coming out next year.

If the Tv series and the movie are hits, you'll probably see more stuff in the big box stores with D&D branding.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 29, 2021, 08:06:11 AM...
It should be like the gag in Spaceballs, where Yogurt is banging on about merchandising. Or if you prefer a real-world comparison, remember how big Star Wars was? Hell, I had Star Wars bedsheets as a kid, and a lunchbox.

In D&D's defense, it has had no big 'pop-culture' moment that put it over the top the way star wars came out of the gate.

Hence the upcoming movie and tv show.

Because no matter how you cut it, as an RPG "D&D" as a brand just doesn't have the normie outreach. It needs a big film to hit and put it over.

I think a lot of how much D&D gets "the push" going forward from Hasbro depends on how the movie and tv series do.

If the movie flops big, that could see Hasbro pull back a lot of the support they have been spending trying to pump D&D up.

Quote from: Reckall on September 29, 2021, 08:31:06 AM
Also, the characters already start as "Heroes" (and not simply in a narrative way) only to became "Paragons" on the 11th level and "Epic" on the 21st. Basically, the party started as THE AVENGERS and grew from there.

   IMO, 1st level 4E characters do start as Heroes ... in the classic Original/Basic/1E AD&D sense, about on par with 4th level characters in those games.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 29, 2021, 01:14:42 PM

Quote from: Reckall on September 29, 2021, 08:31:06 AM
Also, the characters already start as "Heroes" (and not simply in a narrative way) only to became "Paragons" on the 11th level and "Epic" on the 21st. Basically, the party started as THE AVENGERS and grew from there.

   IMO, 1st level 4E characters do start as Heroes ... in the classic Original/Basic/1E AD&D sense, about on par with 4th level characters in those games.

An interesting side-by-side on that;

- In AD&D a 4th level Fighter probably has 22-30 hp depending on possible Con bonus.
- A 4E one starts with Con score + 15 hp, which with the way stats are determined in the game works out to 23-33 hp.

- In AD&D a 4th level Fighter probably has about a +5-6 to hit with their proficient attacks.
- A 4E one starts with about a +5-7 to hit with their proficient weapon attacks.

- In AD&D by 4th level a Fighter probably has Plate Mail for an AC 7 points better than an unarmored man.
- A 4E one starts with scale armor which is 7 points better than an unarmored man.

So, yes, a 4E PC starts at about the equivalent of a 4th level AD&D PC; which is what the designers were shooting for and always said they were shooting for.

I stopped buying 5e at Tasha's Crock of Excrement, so it's not like this decision can make me buy any less D&D. I'll give it a fair look when it comes out and see if I like it better. I do tend to like lines when they are smaller--5e started as strong as it ever was and only declined--so it might be good with just the core books, but I'm not too enthusiastic about it, especially as backwards compatibility with 5e is not a pro in my eyes.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 29, 2021, 01:57:41 PM
I stopped buying 5e at Tasha's Crock of Excrement, so it's not like this decision can make me buy any less D&D. I'll give it a fair look when it comes out and see if I like it better. I do tend to like lines when they are smaller--5e started as strong as it ever was and only declined--so it might be good with just the core books, but I'm not too enthusiastic about it, especially as backwards compatibility with 5e is not a pro in my eyes.

You lasted longer than I did, i stopped after tomb of annihilation

Quote from: Jaeger on September 29, 2021, 05:27:12 AM

Quote from: S'mon on September 29, 2021, 02:25:47 AM
I just started a new game & allowed a Twilight Cleric, so I'd like to know too! I recall he has some kind of massive temp hp granting power.
...

That's the jist.

A simple search and you can find why some consider it "OP" for the game...

Did some research this morning, player has already agreed to make the temp hp roll once per fight not every round. It's definitely going to change play balance though. I'm v glad I don't allow Tasha's at all in my grittier no-feats sandbox 5e game.

Quote from: Jaeger on September 29, 2021, 01:12:15 PM

Quote from: thedungeondelver on September 28, 2021, 11:03:07 PM
Are they, though?

Where's the posters, the lunch-boxes, the flood of new video games, the multiple TV shows, an official Hasbro/D&D Youtube channel, clothes (and no, 80s tees and that one guy who makes incredibly overpriced junk jewelry don't count), placemats, branded cereal, etc.

They basically are. WotC has video game studios under their purview now. And they have been pretty open about trying to turn out a AAA D&D video game.

There is a netflix series in development, and they have a movie coming out next year.

If the Tv series and the movie are hits, you'll probably see more stuff in the big box stores with D&D branding.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 29, 2021, 08:06:11 AM...
It should be like the gag in Spaceballs, where Yogurt is banging on about merchandising. Or if you prefer a real-world comparison, remember how big Star Wars was? Hell, I had Star Wars bedsheets as a kid, and a lunchbox.

In D&D's defense, it has had no big 'pop-culture' moment that put it over the top the way star wars came out of the gate.

Hence the upcoming movie and tv show.

Because no matter how you cut it, as an RPG "D&D" as a brand just doesn't have the normie outreach. It needs a big film to hit and put it over.

I think a lot of how much D&D gets "the push" going forward from Hasbro depends on how the movie and tv series do.

If the movie flops big, that could see Hasbro pull back a lot of the support they have been spending trying to pump D&D up.

Pretty much.

Traditional RPGs are not a growth sector. Most people aren't interested in memorizing a rulebook when it's much more convenient to play a board game with one page of rules or a video game designed specifically to boost your dopamine levels.

As an IP tho, D&D has a lot of fertile ground for multimedia. You could make a Sliders-esque animated show where the cast travels between different campaign settings.

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 29, 2021, 08:28:03 AM
I don't mind legitimate criticism of 4E; there's plenty you can level (if there weren't they system I've been working on would still look like a 4E retroclone and not its own thing entirely)... but its really annoying when people level made-up shit about 4E it in order to deride it.

It is particularly easy to defend 4e when fighting Strawbears.

Here is a special preview of D&D 5.5 in 2024

Designated Safe Accepting Dungeon Friend: Beige Sphere, you and the other beige spheres are walking on the surface of a beige sphere and you see before you a beige sphere guarding a locked beige sphere....what do you do?

Player 1 Among equals: Holds up X card

Designated Safe Accepting Dungeon Friend: ...

Player 1 Among equals: These dice have hate numbers on them.

Designated Safe Dungeon Friend: ...

Player 1 Among equals: You need to leave.

Designated Safe Dungeon Friend: This is my house!

Player 1 Among Equals: This is the people's house. Property is theft. These hate dice must be burned after the proper carbon offsets have been purchased!

Player 2 Among Equals : I uh... I think tha-

Player 1 Among Equals: SILENCE! You did not ask the group to raise a point of personal privilege and obtain consensus! -24 Social Credit! Opposition to the unity of the syndic is unacceptable!

Player 1 Among Equals, Player 3 Among Equals, Player 4 Among Equals, Player 5 Who Identifies as Player 7 Among Equals, Player 6 Among Equals & Designated Safe Dungeon Friend: (Chanting in a state of confused ecstasy) One Voice! One Will! One Voice! One Will! One Voice! One Will!

Dunce Cone and collar are put on Traitor Saboteur Gusano Revealed Enemy of the People #2 who is openly weeping and hyperventalating...

etc.

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 29, 2021, 11:15:14 PM
Here is a special preview of D&D 5.5 in 2024

Nice... genuine LOL.

Dammit palaeomerus! You know that the SJW lurkers will only take your post as a model for their future gaming plans, similar to how they've taken 1984 as a how to manual.

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 29, 2021, 11:15:14 PM
Beige Sphere, you and the other beige spheres are walking on the surface of a beige sphere and you see before you a beige sphere guarding a locked beige sphere....what do you do?

Beige !? 

That's Nuts!