Quote from: vargasmas on January 02, 2023, 07:55:43 PM
Thank God I found this website. For a while there I was about to give up on RPGs due to all the real-world "issues and opinions" that kept affecting RPG companies, sites, and groups.
I just want to be chill and non-woke, and just enjoy myself playing the game. Don't need all the real-world baggage ruining the game for me. I've been trying to collect all the books and materials that I can from before everything was ruined by woke cancel culture. I've been focusing on switching from D&D5e to Pathfinder 1e. I also have Old School Essentials, Basic Fantasy RPG, and Tiny Dungeon. I have a few 5e books I might give away. Mostly I'm just getting my collection together so I can enjoy it in the peace and quiet of my (I hope soon to come) retirement.

Greetings!

Welcome, Vargasmas!

I hope that you visit regularly here, and jump into the discussions!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623)

Quote
Goblinoid Games' Statement on Politics
I know what you're thinking, "Man, not another ham-fisted statement about politics by a game publisher." Please bear with me.
This is a big discussion with much more nuance than I can capture here. I also don't claim to fully grasp all of the nuance, we can all keep learning. But what I want to say is that there are too many issues dismissed as "politics" to shut down discussion and opinions as if there are two legitimate sides to all of these issues.
What I mean by that is, for example, something like whether we should tax gas at the pump or wrap it into vehicle registration. So in that sense, yes, Goblinoid Games (me) isn't interested in discussing that kind of politics at the game table (though let's face it, game table banter often does stray afield of the task at hand!).
But often what people write off as "merely" politics are actually human rights issues. In that regard, I think those considerations should be taken into account where appropriate.
What that looks like in practice is working to not perpetuate or reinforce lies, bigotry, homophobia etc. To not contribute to the public and systemic forces and beliefs that strive to grind classes of people below an authoritarian boot.
So when I say trans men are men and trans women are women, or black lives matter, I'm not making a political statement. I'm acknowledging that every person should have the freedom to be who they feel they truly are. Or to not be systematically degraded so that society views some people as lesser or inferior.
Because when we refuse to openly discuss those issues we turn a blind eye to the reinforcing behavior that erodes the dignity from people and makes them feel unsafe and rejected by society. Brushing these topics aside because you don't want to tackle them or be self reflective is the same as saying you're content to perpetuate ideas that seek to hurt people. Kill people even. To keep people afraid and uncertain of their places in the world.
Therefore I encourage discussion when these issues come to the foreground, and I hope if I make any missteps people will correct me and I can learn something. Above all I want everyone to know that you are safe here and that I have your back in every way that's in my power. You are valued no matter who you are. You are valued because you are who you are. Human diversity is a beautiful thing when we can embrace it. We should enjoy that richness and enjoy each other.
Thanks for your time.
Dan

If trans men are men, and trans women are women, then they are not trans and GG dude is trying to erase their existence.
Sounds like transphobia to me.

And I do not even jest. This is the logical conclusion of that statement.

While I definitely spend more time on the Pub than anywhere else these days, I've always argued that "no politics" is really an absurd rule.  I certainly understand the inclination, heck my politics generally manage to make everyone mad. 

I do think we've lost some good posters over it.  Still, the stated objective is to avoid the culture war as much as possible and be an oasis of actual game discussion.  I'm afraid it's often memes over content but at least you can make funny comments without getting screamed at for derailing discussion.

I did post the politics rules for Galaxies In Shadow on the design forum but I didn't entitle it "Flagrant Rules Violation" so I always feel a bit like I wimped out there   At the time it would have been pretty inflamatory.

Honestly the pub tradition of letting conversations wander where the will can get a bit annoying, but then so can the rigid enforcement of thread direction.

The numbers seem to be growing but it generally feels like the same dozen posters most of the time and I'm not convinced its a great place to market anything.  Not that I'm really marketing anything, but one day maybe, I guess, I don't know, I kindof like the liberty that comes with not having any fans I have to please.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 02, 2023, 06:56:49 PM

Quote from: tenbones on January 02, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Tristram.

Sorry... I can't agree with you on that for reasons that I explained to Shark. So as far as I'm concerned Tristram can kiss my piss (which I told him on the Pub's forum).

I should say, before everyone thinks I'm just a complete misanthrope (which I am). I do like most of the folks over there, and I've enjoyed chatting with 'most' of them. But Shark hit the nail on the head it's an exceedingly sterile atmos.

Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate... lets just say the Mods there do a lot of compromising among themselves. Frustrations can run high on political topics - the problem as we both mentioned, is that the mods themselves get political (in my case, if you ask me a question "Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?" the answer is literally political - then you tell me stop talking about politics while prodding me on the point...) Yeah that's not a way to engage me in an honest discussion.

I know behind the scenes they do a lot of discussion, which is normal and healthy for a forum full of mods. The issue is the leadership has to be consistent for it to work. Here, Pundit sets a pretty strong standard. We don't have to like Pundit, but we know where Pundit and the mods stand on 98% of things. I don't like having a discussion where I'm walking a minefield because of some arbitrary impulse from a mod.

Again, I like the guys there, except for the handful of bad actors, and I even like talking about gaming more than politics (not that I mind talking about politics - but I do that in-depth elsewhere), but I don't like having to monitor my speech more than I usually do for the sake of others oversensitivity.

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Yup. Shooter might be as important as Stan Lee in the big picture of Marvel. I would say post-Stan Lee there is no one close. He established standards that simply didn't exist prior or after.

This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Quote from: TheShadow on January 02, 2023, 11:35:35 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM

I honestly feel like it's back in the 80s and 90s when the Right wing Christians would go absolutely nuts if you dared expressed ideas that went outside of their rhetoric.

I grew up in a right-wing Christian household in the 80s and 90s. I left that environment and *poof* they had no power over me whatsoever. This new thing is not like that at all. They want total control, to make sure you lose employment, have no access to financial services or speech platforms etc.

At the risk of being mildly political, the Woke Left is implementing one of the most famous quotes by the forebearer they reject, "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State," to a degree, the Christian Fundamentalists have not even attempted in centuries (and arguably never, but that requires debating where modern Christian fundies come from, which would be theology).

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 11:16:24 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM"Why is Marvel comics doing poorly these days vs. Jim Shooter's era?"

The answer is that Jim Shooter is the fucking GOAT, and the Marvel offices went from 'hand in your work whenever you can be bothered' to running like a Swiss watch. Which is why the staff hated him.

Yup. Shooter might be as important as Stan Lee in the big picture of Marvel. I would say post-Stan Lee there is no one close. He established standards that simply didn't exist prior or after.

Shooter seems to have had three basic rules:

1. Respect continuity as that keeps fans invested.
2. Create the best product you can.
3. Ship your books on time.

That something so simple is beyond both Marvel and DC these days speaks a lot about modern management and creators, none of it good.

Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

You basically told them you wanted to play games instead of listening to them bitch about inconsequential nonsense. Shame on you!

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate...

Yeah, I get that mate, and that's fair.

Generally I don't have a problem with mods doing their job as long as it's done on a fair and level playing field. I also expect mods to be relitively honest, but I detest hypocrisy.

So when they want to get personal, and not allow me the right to do the same all while conveniently 'hiding' when I point that out publically followed by 'disappearing' some of my legitimate counter-arguments (like asking for proof of certain claims he was making) then you know you're dealing with a snake.

To be fair, I like the pub in general and I've no problem with the mods, for the most part. But it feels like you can't really have a good chat there so the atmosphere is pretty sterile as Shark said.  So I won't really miss posting there even though my ban has lifted.

What's really needed, IMO, is a place that's partway between here and the pub. Somewhere you can have a good conversation about the minutia of RPGs, the good and the bad without it devolving into constant mud-slinging. Now to be fair, I have engaged in a lot of that here myself. So I am part of the problem. When people get snippy with me they are getting it back (and it seems to escalate from there).

But on other forums, I'm pretty polite... That is until someone gets nasty. I respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

Quote from: Brad on January 02, 2023, 10:14:45 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 02, 2023, 09:56:00 AM
Goblinoid Games has posted a policy that seems to sum up the next phase: "Certain controversial issues are not 'political', but Fundamental Human Rights, and you cannot disagree with us without being a Bad Person:" (Source: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/troll-lord-games-in-no-politics-imbroglio.905957/post-24639623)

Pathetic.

Dan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

No, I haven't played it in years, been using copies of B/X picked up over time to replace it. If I had a place to donate, I would but everyone around here only plays 5e.