https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
WTF!? Who wants to rp someone so mentally ill? I get pretending to be evil, but this....it's beyond the pale.
Quote from: https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
What if you could make the real world better by playing an RPG?!
And how does including a bunch of personality traits do that?
Fetishes And Foibles 5E is looking lit!
450+ disabilities and how to not have them impact the life of your character, plus instructions on how to preach to your players!
LOL, GURPS has a very extensive list (and I bet it only includes real ones) and it also has the ways taking a disability SHOULD impact the PC.
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Yes, because a lot of them have convinced themselves they have mental superpowers. Real life isn't a Hollywood detective show.
"Good work, Speckenski, your obsessive need to memorize and categorize mailboxes has solved the case again!"
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Do you have any idea of all the different negatives that come with being on the spectrum?
"Someone with autism may process information from their senses differently. He may be unable to filter out irrelevant noises or sights, such as, in the previous example, the microwave or flickering light. Or he may find certain sounds, lights, or textures to be severely distracting or uncomfortable."
"Many autistic people experience hypersensitivity to bright lights or certain light wavelengths (e.g., LED or fluorescent lights). Certain sounds, smells, textures and tastes can also be overwhelming. This can result in sensory avoidance – trying to get away from stimuli that most people can easily tune out."
"Generally, students with autism have rigid patterns of thinking. Their tendency to follow rules and routines often causes problems for adaptive functioning, including daily living skills, communication, and social interactions."
"Individuals on the autism spectrum often have difficulty recognising and understanding social cues and therefore do not instinctively learn to adjust their behaviour to suit different social contexts."
Don't talk to me about "the benefits" of autism, and I'm a high functioning aspie.
Plus, when I play elfgames (and all the non activists too) I don't want to play myself, I want to leave my issues, limitations and defects behind, I want to escape from IRL into a fantasy world where my PC is not me.
Meh, If I want to roleplay a crazy person, I'll just play Call of Cthulhu.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 04, 2023, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Yes, because a lot of them have convinced themselves they have mental superpowers. Real life isn't a Hollywood detective show.
"Good work, Speckenski, your obsessive need to memorize and categorize mailboxes has solved the case again!"
Dang. That there is funny stuff. Just classic.
That tectonic shuddering that you feel? That is Kurt Vonnegut spinning in his grave for Harrison Bergeron.
Just stupid. I hope this fails miserably.
Neurodivergence is a word that makes me want to punch people who use it unironically. It's right up there with cis on the woke stupidity scale. And that's just aside from the idiotic idea of bringing real life mental and physical defects into a game where even death isn't permanent.
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
My partner is autistic and I can tell you that while I love her, her autism is absolutely a disability that makes things challenging for her in life and in her relationships She has a very hard time managing everyday stimuli like lights and sounds and smells to the point of pathology. She spends inordinate amount of times managing or fretting over environmental minutia most people would not or cannot notice. She has some cognitive blind spots where socialization are concerned. All of this is very debilitating for her. She'd last 10 seconds in a dungeon.
Quote from: Doctor Jest on April 05, 2023, 12:57:50 AM
She'd last 10 seconds in a dungeon.
Personally I have no use for a woman who's not at home in a dungeon, but to each their own.
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PM
https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
WTF!? Who wants to rp someone so mentally ill? I get pretending to be evil, but this....it's beyond the pale.
Hey, stop that.
If I want to play a spaz with a service animal that's my choice buddy.
As I said before we really need a vomit emoji on this forum.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 05, 2023, 06:42:07 AM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PM
https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
WTF!? Who wants to rp someone so mentally ill? I get pretending to be evil, but this....it's beyond the pale.
Hey, stop that.
If I want to play a spaz with a service animal that's my choice buddy.
Just don't try to play one that's mixed race... that rayciss and banned by WotC now.
There's one part of me which sees something like this as as useful catalog of disabilities and conditions—like the analogy to GURPS made above.
On the other hand, I also see this as running counter to what D&D has meant to a couple generations of players, in that generations of awkward kids have played this game and become better people, learned social skills, etc. D&D is used in schools and in other settings as a tool to teach autistic kids, for example, how to better relate to other people in real life by practice at the table. Now this book wants to endorse and encourage these kids to roleplaythat very same difficulty?
Why the hell would anyone want this type of thing in their game?
If you want this then houserule it in.
This is going to fail big time. This just doesnt make sense. Characters are meant to be heroes that can do almost anything. If I want to play a person with limited abilities, I do that every day
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Better at math (not sure how you make that a game benefit, I suppose it could be an automatic bonus to science related skills), and the ability to stick to something without getting mentally fatigued (you'd need to have mental fatigue mechanics in there). I can't think of any clear benefits of being autistic beyond that.
Quote from: migo on April 05, 2023, 11:09:13 AM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Better at math (not sure how you make that a game benefit, I suppose it could be an automatic bonus to science related skills), and the ability to stick to something without getting mentally fatigued (you'd need to have mental fatigue mechanics in there). I can't think of any clear benefits of being autistic beyond that.
Will their be negatives to social skills, or just pure wish fulfilment?
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
In one sentence, you have captured the difference (broad caricature of course) between the hobby's core player base until about 2016 and the player base that has joined since 2016.
The newer players have a much higher proportion (majority?) of people for whom "the character is me". I don't even mean the old "I'm playing me if I was this person" but a genuine complete identification.
Thus the need for features that a person centers their identity on to be available in the game and not to be negative. It also drives the "you can't kill my character without my permission" because it would be like amputating something.
It's not that this was never seen back in the day. Hell, it even showed up in "Dark Dungeons". But it has become common enough to start driving game materials.
I will say I can't understand it, but people are welcome to play their way. We'll just probably play at different tables if we can get all the posers trying for ally cookies to leave both groups alone. We'd probably even eventually swap war stories.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 05, 2023, 11:11:02 AM
Quote from: migo on April 05, 2023, 11:09:13 AM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 04, 2023, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PMWho wants to rp someone so mentally ill?
Being on the autism spectrum isn't mental illness. Some people who actually have neurodivergent conditions might want to gain a game benefit from playing characters who share their qualities.
Better at math (not sure how you make that a game benefit, I suppose it could be an automatic bonus to science related skills), and the ability to stick to something without getting mentally fatigued (you'd need to have mental fatigue mechanics in there). I can't think of any clear benefits of being autistic beyond that.
Will their be negatives to social skills, or just pure wish fulfilment?
There ought to be. I mean really an autist is a Dwarf. So the benefits and disadvantages have already been playtested.
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 05, 2023, 11:28:18 AM
In one sentence, you have captured the difference (broad caricature of course) between the hobby's core player base until about 2016 and the player base that has joined since 2016.
The newer players have a much higher proportion (majority?) of people for whom "the character is me". I don't even mean the old "I'm playing me if I was this person" but a genuine complete identification.
Thus the need for features that a person centers their identity on to be available in the game and not to be negative.
This was Pundit's claim in his character death video, and I'm extremely skeptical. The whole schtick of Knights of the Dinner Table since it started 1990 was that the characters were versions of the players, and those were old stereotypes even then. Greg Porter's Timelords RPG from 1987 was based on the premise that players literally play themselves thrown across time in a strange device, and had rules for players rating their own attributes. Playing a fantasy version of oneself was always common, especially among casual and/or new players.
Even if the PC isn't a fantasy version of the player, core identity like gender tends to strongly correlate. Male players play mostly male PCs, and female players mostly female PCs. There are plenty of exceptions, but they're uncommon and they're usually the harder-core player types.
More generally, I don't think that the release of a fringe product like Limitless Heroics is representative of the mainstream of new D&D players. Someone might be upset that even a tiny fringe would buy such a product, but it doesn't represent the majority of new players since 2016.
Quote from: jhkim on April 05, 2023, 12:33:07 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 05, 2023, 11:28:18 AM
In one sentence, you have captured the difference (broad caricature of course) between the hobby's core player base until about 2016 and the player base that has joined since 2016.
The newer players have a much higher proportion (majority?) of people for whom "the character is me". I don't even mean the old "I'm playing me if I was this person" but a genuine complete identification.
Thus the need for features that a person centers their identity on to be available in the game and not to be negative.
This was Pundit's claim in his character death video, and I'm extremely skeptical. The whole schtick of Knights of the Dinner Table since it started 1990 was that the characters were versions of the players, and those were old stereotypes even then. Greg Porter's Timelords RPG from 1987 was based on the premise that players literally play themselves thrown across time in a strange device, and had rules for players rating their own attributes. Playing a fantasy version of oneself was always common, especially among casual and/or new players.
Even if the PC isn't a fantasy version of the player, core identity like gender tends to strongly correlate. Male players play mostly male PCs, and female players mostly female PCs. There are plenty of exceptions, but they're uncommon and they're usually the harder-core player types.
More generally, I don't think that the release of a fringe product like Limitless Heroics is representative of the mainstream of new D&D players. Someone might be upset that even a tiny fringe would buy such a product, but it doesn't represent the majority of new players since 2016.
"Why are you an angry gamer?"
No Jim, no one is upset someone might buy that book, not even if all the "new players since 2016" bought it would we be upset.
We're criticizing a product, and a mentality (that you might share hence your disingenuous defense of it) that my disabilities ARE my identity and I'm nothing else but those disabilities. Therefore those disabilities MUST be represented in the game as a bonus and don't have ANY negative aspects.
Now back to our pointing and mocking the retards that created the book and the even more retarded idiots who will buy it.
Quote
Book Accessibility
Dyslexia-friendly layout
Motherfucker how you gonna do that? Have each page be a mirror reflection of the previous page? They borrow House of Leaves and said "Let's do an RPG product with a layout just like that!"
I looked this up when I first heard about it and it sounds like most people commenting here are missing the point (from the POV of those who pay for it).
It's not about wanting to play disabled people in D&D adventures. It's about wanting it to be possible for other people to do so. They'd never, ever want to play someone in a wheelchair who goes Dungeon Delving but someone might. The rules of D&D make it so it'd be suicide for someone to try that even in 5e and so that means the hobby is excluding the differently abled.
This is unacceptable and someone should correct this injustice. Fortunately, someone very helpfully created a book that will do so. Fund the Kickstarter and we're one step closer to a world where Social Justice is a reality!
Nobody (or at least the majority) who pays money for this wants the book for themselves, they just want it to exist so that the theoretical masses of Differently Abled currently excluded from playing D&D as people Just Like Them can now play. The book then becomes something they can place in a prominent position behind them when they play online. It's the same mentality that led to Coyote & Crow getting so much on Kickstarter- and then failing to sell after that.
You have to concede that the people who write these things have some sort of marketing savvy. They've worked out that there's enough activists pretending to be gamers to keep funding these things and until that changes, we haven't seen the last of this. Just take comfort in the fact that most of the people who buy these are the same ones who can't understand why it's so hard to find a DM for their group and not the sort who are likely to show up at your table.
It's also at least a smarter model than the current garbage that Disney and Amazon are churning out aimed at sci-fi and fantasy fans. The people who want this stuff don't actually want to watch/read/play it themselves, they just want it to exist so that other people will do so. Kickstarter projects get their money up front by telling the activists that they have to pay for it to exist. Making it exist and then asking if they want to pay for it? Not nearly as successful...
I got through half the advert before I realized it was actually called Limitless Heroics. I thought it said Limited Heroics.
Anyway, I'm all in on this one! It'll finally give me the permission to go full-retard with my characters.
"P-p-p-please d-don't h-h-hurt meeee!"
Quote from: THE_Leopold on April 05, 2023, 03:23:47 PM
Quote
Book Accessibility
Dyslexia-friendly layout
Motherfucker how you gonna do that? Have each page be a mirror reflection of the previous page? They borrow House of Leaves and said "Let's do an RPG product with a layout just like that!"
That's not dyslexia. It's more being able to keep track of lines and not ending up several lines down as you work from left to right. What you need is clear separation between lines. That could be done by having sufficient spacing (at least 1.5 if not 2), by actually having lines between each line of text, or by having each line in a band of alternating colour. 1.5 spacing and lines would be the solution that's most friendly to dyslexics without being a bother to non-dyslexics. If it's a PDF that wouldn't be an issue, if it's print that of course means the text needs to go on more pages so that adds to the printing cost.
Quote from: Effete on April 05, 2023, 03:51:04 PM
I got through half the advert before I realized it was actually called Limitless Heroics. I thought it said Limited Heroics.
I thought the same thing.
And the price they are asking for that book, up to $120 they are on drugs. How many people are actually going to pay that much? Couldn't they just house rule their game and save themselves the money?
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PM
https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
WTF!? Who wants to rp someone so mentally ill? I get pretending to be evil, but this....it's beyond the pale.
I commonly give my NPCs one of the eight standard personality disorders to make it easier to roleplay them. One player in a game I played in wanted to roleplay a schizophrenic. And my Call of Cthulhu character is both going insane and effectively a "brain on a stick" as a feeble 82-year-old psychiatrist. I don't see why having more roleplay options is ludicrous or morbid in principle.
That said
- the cover art of this product is ugly,
- the notion of a wheelchair-bound man wielding a battle-axe to any effect is absurd (if not the situation itself inconceivable), and
- the general tone insinuating one's moral obligation to be sensitive and work to include disabilities in order to make one's play a moral paragon, rather than primarily an escapist adventure, is repellant to anyone with mythic sensibilities.
Overall the thing appears to be out to "disable" the heroic fantasy aspect of gaming and replace it with sappy consciousness raising moralism. I say this as one who believes gaming can morally raise consciousness without being sappy--that is, without rewriting reality to presume that disabilities aren't things to rue.
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on April 06, 2023, 04:28:11 PM
Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2023, 07:45:07 PM
https://wyrmworkspublishing.com/product/limitless-heroics/
WTF!? Who wants to rp someone so mentally ill? I get pretending to be evil, but this....it's beyond the pale.
I commonly give my NPCs one of the eight standard personality disorders to make it easier to roleplay them. One player in a game I played in wanted to roleplay a schizophrenic. And my Call of Cthulhu character is both going insane and effectively a "brain on a stick" as a feeble 82-year-old psychiatrist. I don't see why having more roleplay options is ludicrous or morbid in principle.
That said
- the cover art of this product is ugly,
- the notion of a wheelchair-bound man wielding a battle-axe to any effect is absurd (if not the situation itself inconceivable), and
- the general tone insinuating one's moral obligation to be sensitive and work to include disabilities in order to make one's play a moral paragon, rather than primarily an escapist adventure, is repellant to anyone with mythic sensibilities.
Overall the thing appears to be out to "disable" the heroic fantasy aspect of gaming and replace it with sappy consciousness raising moralism. I say this as one who believes gaming can morally raise consciousness without being sappy--that is, without rewriting reality to presume that disabilities aren't things to rue.
I think it's absolutely possible to play a character with a mental illness and have it be both interesting and fun for the entire group, but that's only if you are playing a character who has a mental illness, not a character for whom it is the only characteristic the player focuses on. One of the things that makes a character with mental illness played well interesting is that the flaw is not treated as an insurmountable barrier. They can have an entire character arc in the game where they are coming to terms with it and either working around it or succumbing to it. Either way, there is movement in how it is dealt with. What I see of all the people running around claiming to be mentally ill currently is that they treat it as something to be proud of while pretending they think it's terrible. They think mental illness is a static characteristic when it's not. And since they want to play themselves in a game, that's how they play their Mary Sue characters.
As for the physical disabilities in games, my eyes end up rolling so hard it's amazing they're still in my head. I thought the combat wheelchair was a joke when it first made its appearance. I really wish it had been. Not because I have any particular animus towards people confined to wheelchairs, but because it makes zero sense within the worlds it is meant to be used. Nobody in a village beset by goblins is hiring a hero with spina bifida to clear out cave, let alone I giant red dragon. And we're talking about games where death isn't even permanent, so there is no reason that a hero who breaks their back and becomes a paraplegic has to be stuck that way beyond the player and/or the GM wanting them to be.
Quote from: jhkim on April 05, 2023, 12:33:07 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 05, 2023, 11:28:18 AM
In one sentence, you have captured the difference (broad caricature of course) between the hobby's core player base until about 2016 and the player base that has joined since 2016.
The newer players have a much higher proportion (majority?) of people for whom "the character is me". I don't even mean the old "I'm playing me if I was this person" but a genuine complete identification.
Thus the need for features that a person centers their identity on to be available in the game and not to be negative.
This was Pundit's claim in his character death video, and I'm extremely skeptical. The whole schtick of Knights of the Dinner Table since it started 1990 was that the characters were versions of the players, and those were old stereotypes even then. Greg Porter's Timelords RPG from 1987 was based on the premise that players literally play themselves thrown across time in a strange device, and had rules for players rating their own attributes. Playing a fantasy version of oneself was always common, especially among casual and/or new players.
Even if the PC isn't a fantasy version of the player, core identity like gender tends to strongly correlate. Male players play mostly male PCs, and female players mostly female PCs. There are plenty of exceptions, but they're uncommon and they're usually the harder-core player types.
More generally, I don't think that the release of a fringe product like Limitless Heroics is representative of the mainstream of new D&D players. Someone might be upset that even a tiny fringe would buy such a product, but it doesn't represent the majority of new players since 2016.
So KoDT: one of the reasons they are funny is we know people who overly identified with characters and generally found them a bit off. The humor is in the extremity.
Time Lords is far from the first "play yourself" coming a decade after V&V and Timeship did that. But they stood out because that was not normative.
As for majority, you'll noticed I said a higher proportion (and then majority with a '?' as an aside, indicating it might be but I would not yet claim that) have this tight identity.
That indicates I accept it existed before, but that the mix has changes over the past few years. Maybe my break point is off, but it seems more players coming in are on the "the character is me" end of the spectrum than the "the character is just an avatar" end.
The existence of Limitless Heroes is an indication of the change. We didn't see products focusing on representing you in real life as the character this tightly in the past. It has a market and that there is sufficient market indicates it is more common that in 1983.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 05, 2023, 01:19:18 PM
Quote from: jhkim on April 05, 2023, 12:33:07 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 05, 2023, 11:28:18 AM
In one sentence, you have captured the difference (broad caricature of course) between the hobby's core player base until about 2016 and the player base that has joined since 2016.
The newer players have a much higher proportion (majority?) of people for whom "the character is me". I don't even mean the old "I'm playing me if I was this person" but a genuine complete identification.
Thus the need for features that a person centers their identity on to be available in the game and not to be negative.
This was Pundit's claim in his character death video, and I'm extremely skeptical. The whole schtick of Knights of the Dinner Table since it started 1990 was that the characters were versions of the players, and those were old stereotypes even then. Greg Porter's Timelords RPG from 1987 was based on the premise that players literally play themselves thrown across time in a strange device, and had rules for players rating their own attributes. Playing a fantasy version of oneself was always common, especially among casual and/or new players.
Even if the PC isn't a fantasy version of the player, core identity like gender tends to strongly correlate. Male players play mostly male PCs, and female players mostly female PCs. There are plenty of exceptions, but they're uncommon and they're usually the harder-core player types.
More generally, I don't think that the release of a fringe product like Limitless Heroics is representative of the mainstream of new D&D players. Someone might be upset that even a tiny fringe would buy such a product, but it doesn't represent the majority of new players since 2016.
"Why are you an angry gamer?"
No Jim, no one is upset someone might buy that book, not even if all the "new players since 2016" bought it would we be upset.
We're criticizing a product, and a mentality (that you might share hence your disingenuous defense of it) that my disabilities ARE my identity and I'm nothing else but those disabilities. Therefore those disabilities MUST be represented in the game as a bonus and don't have ANY negative aspects.
Now back to our pointing and mocking the retards that created the book and the even more retarded idiots who will buy it.
I'm not criticizing or mocking. Yes, I have criticism of identities tied to immutable traits that are limiting...such as identifying as depressed.
But in this case I'm observing. There is a change in the average level of identification in newer players. Not that we're seeing something we never saw before, but that we're seeing it more often.
That is vital information if you at looking at joining a new table or find new players. It's something that is more important to consider when feeling new situations out.
In fact, jhkim decided to ignore my last line:
"We'll just probably play at different tables if we can get all the posers trying for ally cookies to leave both groups alone. We'd probably even eventually swap war stories."
Once people who just embrace $THING to get ally cookies are gone, we can play at our tables and swap stories online/at the store/at cons.
That seems 180 degrees from being mad it exists. Maybe I'm just not eloquent enough to express my intent.
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 06, 2023, 05:13:24 PM
But in this case I'm observing. There is a change in the average level of identification in newer players. Not that we're seeing something we never saw before, but that we're seeing it more often.
That is vital information if you at looking at joining a new table or find new players. It's something that is more important to consider when feeling new situations out.
This comes down to what level of identification means. My illustration here is Knights of the Dinner Table. All the players there play fantasy versions of themselves - so that's a high level of identification. But of the changes we're seeing post-2016, I don't think we're seeing more players like the KoDT crew.
For example, the KoDT crew are fine with a PC dying -- they just roll up a new fantasy version of themselves. They're not particularly political, nor do they talk about cultural issues like disability representation.
So I don't think more players like the KoDT crew leads to books like from the original post ("Limitless Heroics"). I think there's a simpler explanation that the expansion of social media and partisan politics since 2016 has lead to an expansion of politically-marketed fringe products.
Quote from: jhkim on April 06, 2023, 07:09:20 PM
Quote from: PulpHerb on April 06, 2023, 05:13:24 PM
But in this case I'm observing. There is a change in the average level of identification in newer players. Not that we're seeing something we never saw before, but that we're seeing it more often.
That is vital information if you at looking at joining a new table or find new players. It's something that is more important to consider when feeling new situations out.
This comes down to what level of identification means. My illustration here is Knights of the Dinner Table. All the players there play fantasy versions of themselves - so that's a high level of identification. But of the changes we're seeing post-2016, I don't think we're seeing more players like the KoDT crew.
For example, the KoDT crew are fine with a PC dying -- they just roll up a new fantasy version of themselves. They're not particularly political, nor do they talk about cultural issues like disability representation.
So I don't think more players like the KoDT crew leads to books like from the original post ("Limitless Heroics"). I think there's a simpler explanation that the expansion of social media and partisan politics since 2016 has lead to an expansion of politically-marketed fringe products.
The difference is, the cartoon characters used to be in a magazine, and we'd laugh at their behavior. Now they sit at tables, and we're terrified to laugh at them.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 06, 2023, 05:04:54 PM
I think it's absolutely possible to play a character with a mental illness and have it be both interesting and fun for the entire group, but that's only if you are playing a character who has a mental illness, not a character for whom it is the only characteristic the player focuses on. One of the things that makes a character with mental illness played well interesting is that the flaw is not treated as an insurmountable barrier. They can have an entire character arc in the game where they are coming to terms with it and either working around it or succumbing to it. Either way, there is movement in how it is dealt with. What I see of all the people running around claiming to be mentally ill currently is that they treat it as something to be proud of while pretending they think it's terrible. They think mental illness is a static characteristic when it's not. And since they want to play themselves in a game, that's how they play their Mary Sue characters.
A wise thought.
QuoteAs for the physical disabilities in games, my eyes end up rolling so hard it's amazing they're still in my head. I thought the combat wheelchair was a joke when it first made its appearance. I really wish it had been. Not because I have any particular animus towards people confined to wheelchairs, but because it makes zero sense within the worlds it is meant to be used. Nobody in a village beset by goblins is hiring a hero with spina bifida to clear out cave, let alone I giant red dragon. And we're talking about games where death isn't even permanent, so there is no reason that a hero who breaks their back and becomes a paraplegic has to be stuck that way beyond the player and/or the GM wanting them to be.
For that matter, why isn't dwarfism considered a disability in RPGs? Some of the art for Warhammer, for instance, is ridiculous--short people with no knees, just feet at the ends of their thighs. Such people would have little maneuverability and leverage in a fight, axe or no axe. I suppose dwarfism must be distinguished from Dwarvenism, but even so, isn't being short a disadvantage in combat? Goliath was not short, and that was an advantage, stone-slingers or no stone-slingers.
8) Handy Quacks, the RPG! Family Guy was ahead of the curve! (I get to say this because I believe I have disabilities... and I am also a duck. ;) )
One thing I noticed is "chat with me on Mastadon" at the end of the page. Mastadon is a Twitter alternative that caters to left-wing extremists and their ideology. Mastadon's publisher is overt about censoring conservative speech.
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 08, 2023, 06:41:37 AM
One thing I noticed is "chat with me on Mastadon" at the end of the page. Mastadon is a Twitter alternative that caters to left-wing extremists and their ideology. Mastadon's publisher is overt about censoring conservative speech.
It must be great for them to get away from Twitter and it's far-right bias, and censoring of all left-wing thought.
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 08, 2023, 06:41:37 AM
One thing I noticed is "chat with me on Mastadon" at the end of the page. Mastadon is a Twitter alternative that caters to left-wing extremists and their ideology. Mastadon's publisher is overt about censoring conservative speech.
The venue choice might be indicative of the author's political leanings, but Mastodon isn't a centralized network and anyone can run a server, so censorship across the entire platform isn't technically possible.
Quote from: Zalman on April 08, 2023, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 08, 2023, 06:41:37 AM
One thing I noticed is "chat with me on Mastadon" at the end of the page. Mastadon is a Twitter alternative that caters to left-wing extremists and their ideology. Mastadon's publisher is overt about censoring conservative speech.
The venue choice might be indicative of the author's political leanings, but Mastodon isn't a centralized network and anyone can run a server, so censorship across the entire platform isn't technically possible.
Every time someone says something like this, or 'OSR is decentralized, so it's safe,' Wokists just take that as a challenge. And they have a bodycount.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 08, 2023, 07:56:12 AM
Every time someone says something like this, or 'OSR is decentralized, so it's safe,' Wokists just take that as a challenge. And they have a bodycount.
No idea what this means. If something is decentralized the only way to use it as a censorship platform is for no one else to participate.
Quote from: Zalman on April 08, 2023, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 08, 2023, 07:56:12 AM
Every time someone says something like this, or 'OSR is decentralized, so it's safe,' Wokists just take that as a challenge. And they have a bodycount.
No idea what this means. If something is decentralized the only way to use it as a censorship platform is for no one else to participate.
It means nothing is truly decentralized. All it would take it something like a 'board of users created to review servers for inappropriate behavior' and there's your censorship.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 08, 2023, 08:17:42 AM
It means nothing is truly decentralized. All it would take it something like a 'board of users created to review servers for inappropriate behavior' and there's your censorship.
I think you're missing the point. It's not
physically possible, any more than it's possible for a "review board" to censor what happens at my own gaming table in my home. So yeah, they could send guys with guns to my house to censor my Mastodon server. Short of that, they're out of luck.
This is why decentralized technology terrifies the centralized establishment, it can't be manipulated like that. They have to resort to outlawing the tech itself (like they'd love to do with Bitcoin, for example).
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 08, 2023, 08:17:42 AM
Quote from: Zalman on April 08, 2023, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 08, 2023, 07:56:12 AM
Every time someone says something like this, or 'OSR is decentralized, so it's safe,' Wokists just take that as a challenge. And they have a bodycount.
No idea what this means. If something is decentralized the only way to use it as a censorship platform is for no one else to participate.
It means nothing is truly decentralized. All it would take it something like a 'board of users created to review servers for inappropriate behavior' and there's your censorship.
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
Greetings!
Hmmm. I could see getting some use out of a book that covers insanity and mental and physical illnesses and mind-blasting deformities. I often use Insane Asylums, Leper Colonies, and Children's Orphanages in my campaigns, so having some handy charts and stuff that details how the diseased, insane, unwashed masses are afflicted can be useful and interesting.
Just imagine, HORDES of such deformed, dysfunctional people. All shrieking, begging in the streets, barking at each other, or talking to themselves. Shouting ferociously and swearing at the clouds.
I've seen people like this in real life. It's surreal, tragic, but also amusing, in some ways. I've seen people at bus stops arguing loudly...with only themselves, and then smacking themselves in the face with their own fist, swearing and growling at some imagined opponent they are arguing with.
In a grocery store, near an entrance, I saw a decent-looking, adult woman--maybe mid-thirties, shouting at herself. Then, she starting arguing with some imaginary man, and yelling at him to EFF her good, and yelling various sexualized pronouncements and exhortations. Periodically, she would look right at you, and start talking to YOU, exhorting you to get with her, and so on, and then she would switch back to her imaginary argument or encounter.
Definitely some strange stuff.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 08, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do. So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it? You don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line? How will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld? They don't need to stop you from playing the way you want. They just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
Quote from: SHARK on April 08, 2023, 02:18:47 PM
Greetings!
Hmmm. I could see getting some use out of a book that covers insanity and mental and physical illnesses and mind-blasting deformities. I often use Insane Asylums, Leper Colonies, and Children's Orphanages in my campaigns, so having some handy charts and stuff that details how the diseased, insane, unwashed masses are afflicted can be useful and interesting.
Just imagine, HORDES of such deformed, dysfunctional people. All shrieking, begging in the streets, barking at each other, or talking to themselves. Shouting ferociously and swearing at the clouds.
I've seen people like this in real life. It's surreal, tragic, but also amusing, in some ways. I've seen people at bus stops arguing loudly...with only themselves, and then smacking themselves in the face with their own fist, swearing and growling at some imagined opponent they are arguing with.
In a grocery store, near an entrance, I saw a decent-looking, adult woman--maybe mid-thirties, shouting at herself. Then, she starting arguing with some imaginary man, and yelling at him to EFF her good, and yelling various sexualized pronouncements and exhortations. Periodically, she would look right at you, and start talking to YOU, exhorting you to get with her, and so on, and then she would switch back to her imaginary argument or encounter.
Definitely some strange stuff.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I once went to a grocery store to grab some food for lunch and there was this old woman yelling in the parking lot. I thought she was yelling at her son, but she ended up coming inside and kept yelling randomly in the vegetable section. It was something about how her husband was a cheater and her daughter was a slut, I think (it's been a while). Eventually the manager and a couple of security guys showed up and told her she had to leave. She acknowledged it very nicely, then proceeded to call them names and tell them they had a shitty store on the way out. Definitely one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 08, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do. So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it? You don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line? How will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld? They don't need to stop you from playing the way you want. They just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
And then there's the fact that any info you do have on the internet is likely hosted on somebody else's server. So even if you set up your own non-woke company for PDF distribution, where are you going to host it? Amazon took down Parler pretty much because it was making Twitter look bad, and now you don't really hear about Parler anymore. The wokists literally have nothing better to do with their lives than hunt every contact you have down and try to get you isolated from them in one way or another. They will make sure that if your business sells the wrong thing (as determined by the woke "standards" of any given day, you won't have a company to process the online transactions from your store. Gun accessory sellers - who don't have FFLs and don't sell actual guns - are running into this issue right now. They will get the relevant parties to close your communication servers (discord, Mastodon, etc.), making it difficult to communicate. Doesn't even matter if nobody on your server is offended, if they find out that you're saying or doing things they don't approve of, they'll shut you down.
They don't have to show up at a person's house; they can very easily cut your means of communication and distribution. Particularly when the companies that provide those services are run by wokists and/or cowards.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 08, 2023, 06:38:49 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 08, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do. So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it? You don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line? How will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld? They don't need to stop you from playing the way you want. They just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
And then there's the fact that any info you do have on the internet is likely hosted on somebody else's server. So even if you set up your own non-woke company for PDF distribution, where are you going to host it? Amazon took down Parler pretty much because it was making Twitter look bad, and now you don't really hear about Parler anymore. The wokists literally have nothing better to do with their lives than hunt every contact you have down and try to get you isolated from them in one way or another. They will make sure that if your business sells the wrong thing (as determined by the woke "standards" of any given day, you won't have a company to process the online transactions from your store. Gun accessory sellers - who don't have FFLs and don't sell actual guns - are running into this issue right now. They will get the relevant parties to close your communication servers (discord, Mastodon, etc.), making it difficult to communicate. Doesn't even matter if nobody on your server is offended, if they find out that you're saying or doing things they don't approve of, they'll shut you down.
They don't have to show up at a person's house; they can very easily cut your means of communication and distribution. Particularly when the companies that provide those services are run by wokists and/or cowards.
Greetings!
More and more, every day, that all of these injustices continue, all of the Libtards giggling and crowing--as normal Americans suffer and are persecuted--this is why America needs to be cleansed.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on April 08, 2023, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 08, 2023, 06:38:49 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 08, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 08, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
Dude, NO ONE is saying they couldn't censor every forum, but they CAN'T control the OSR, because it's decentralized, heck make a blockchain store and then they can't even stop you from selling.
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do. So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it? You don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line? How will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld? They don't need to stop you from playing the way you want. They just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
And then there's the fact that any info you do have on the internet is likely hosted on somebody else's server. So even if you set up your own non-woke company for PDF distribution, where are you going to host it? Amazon took down Parler pretty much because it was making Twitter look bad, and now you don't really hear about Parler anymore. The wokists literally have nothing better to do with their lives than hunt every contact you have down and try to get you isolated from them in one way or another. They will make sure that if your business sells the wrong thing (as determined by the woke "standards" of any given day, you won't have a company to process the online transactions from your store. Gun accessory sellers - who don't have FFLs and don't sell actual guns - are running into this issue right now. They will get the relevant parties to close your communication servers (discord, Mastodon, etc.), making it difficult to communicate. Doesn't even matter if nobody on your server is offended, if they find out that you're saying or doing things they don't approve of, they'll shut you down.
They don't have to show up at a person's house; they can very easily cut your means of communication and distribution. Particularly when the companies that provide those services are run by wokists and/or cowards.
Greetings!
More and more, every day, that all of these injustices continue, all of the Libtards giggling and crowing--as normal Americans suffer and are persecuted--this is why America needs to be cleansed.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Having actually read a history book or two, I am going to find it very interesting - and not a little bit funny - to watch these woke idiots get the world they're pushing for. Because when they realize what that actually means, they
really aren't going to like it. Once the revolution takes hold, it always eat its own, and it always starts with the rabble-rousers.
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 08, 2023, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: SHARK on April 08, 2023, 02:18:47 PM
Greetings!
Hmmm. I could see getting some use out of a book that covers insanity and mental and physical illnesses and mind-blasting deformities. I often use Insane Asylums, Leper Colonies, and Children's Orphanages in my campaigns, so having some handy charts and stuff that details how the diseased, insane, unwashed masses are afflicted can be useful and interesting.
Just imagine, HORDES of such deformed, dysfunctional people. All shrieking, begging in the streets, barking at each other, or talking to themselves. Shouting ferociously and swearing at the clouds.
I've seen people like this in real life. It's surreal, tragic, but also amusing, in some ways. I've seen people at bus stops arguing loudly...with only themselves, and then smacking themselves in the face with their own fist, swearing and growling at some imagined opponent they are arguing with.
In a grocery store, near an entrance, I saw a decent-looking, adult woman--maybe mid-thirties, shouting at herself. Then, she starting arguing with some imaginary man, and yelling at him to EFF her good, and yelling various sexualized pronouncements and exhortations. Periodically, she would look right at you, and start talking to YOU, exhorting you to get with her, and so on, and then she would switch back to her imaginary argument or encounter.
Definitely some strange stuff.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I once went to a grocery store to grab some food for lunch and there was this old woman yelling in the parking lot. I thought she was yelling at her son, but she ended up coming inside and kept yelling randomly in the vegetable section. It was something about how her husband was a cheater and her daughter was a slut, I think (it's been a while). Eventually the manager and a couple of security guys showed up and told her she had to leave. She acknowledged it very nicely, then proceeded to call them names and tell them they had a shitty store on the way out. Definitely one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had.
Greetings!
Definitely, man! So many brain-wrecked beasts wandering our society.
From a DM point of view, I can see how a book like Limited Adventurers or whatever it is--can be useful, and even entertaining to a point. I can also see how it could become overkill and dull, with players *longing* to simply encounter some normal people again! *Laughing*. I have a town in my Thandor campaign that is entirely full of insane, mentally-ill and mutated freaks.
My players survived several game sessions there, but it was close. They were on the edge of losing their minds from being immersed in all of the ass-backwards customs, and dealing with cripples and frothing insane people every day.
I finally allowed them to finish up several quests, and escape from the hellscape town. *Laughing*
The party cheered in joy!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do.
They really don't.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it?
There are plenty of places to publish it or sell it from my own website
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PMYou don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line?
Not unless they want to talk to my attorney they won't. I will make it really loud and really nasty.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PMHow will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld?
Those are both places that The RPGPundit is banned from. He uses social media and other places to advertise his material. And he makes a living on it. Me? If I were going to sell game material it would be as a side gig. I wouldn't be doing it for a living.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PMThey don't need to stop you from playing the way you want.
Because they cannot.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PMThey just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
With social media out there and so many places to chose from, they can't stop me from getting the word out.
As they said in the movie Serenity "You can't stop the signal"
Quote from: SHARK on April 08, 2023, 06:51:40 PM
Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 08, 2023, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: SHARK on April 08, 2023, 02:18:47 PM
Greetings!
Hmmm. I could see getting some use out of a book that covers insanity and mental and physical illnesses and mind-blasting deformities. I often use Insane Asylums, Leper Colonies, and Children's Orphanages in my campaigns, so having some handy charts and stuff that details how the diseased, insane, unwashed masses are afflicted can be useful and interesting.
Just imagine, HORDES of such deformed, dysfunctional people. All shrieking, begging in the streets, barking at each other, or talking to themselves. Shouting ferociously and swearing at the clouds.
I've seen people like this in real life. It's surreal, tragic, but also amusing, in some ways. I've seen people at bus stops arguing loudly...with only themselves, and then smacking themselves in the face with their own fist, swearing and growling at some imagined opponent they are arguing with.
In a grocery store, near an entrance, I saw a decent-looking, adult woman--maybe mid-thirties, shouting at herself. Then, she starting arguing with some imaginary man, and yelling at him to EFF her good, and yelling various sexualized pronouncements and exhortations. Periodically, she would look right at you, and start talking to YOU, exhorting you to get with her, and so on, and then she would switch back to her imaginary argument or encounter.
Definitely some strange stuff.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I once went to a grocery store to grab some food for lunch and there was this old woman yelling in the parking lot. I thought she was yelling at her son, but she ended up coming inside and kept yelling randomly in the vegetable section. It was something about how her husband was a cheater and her daughter was a slut, I think (it's been a while). Eventually the manager and a couple of security guys showed up and told her she had to leave. She acknowledged it very nicely, then proceeded to call them names and tell them they had a shitty store on the way out. Definitely one of the more interesting experiences I've ever had.
Greetings!
Definitely, man! So many brain-wrecked beasts wandering our society.
From a DM point of view, I can see how a book like Limited Adventurers or whatever it is--can be useful, and even entertaining to a point. I can also see how it could become overkill and dull, with players *longing* to simply encounter some normal people again! *Laughing*. I have a town in my Thandor campaign that is entirely full of insane, mentally-ill and mutated freaks.
My players survived several game sessions there, but it was close. They were on the edge of losing their minds from being immersed in all of the ass-backwards customs, and dealing with cripples and frothing insane people every day.
I finally allowed them to finish up several quests, and escape from the hellscape town. *Laughing*
The party cheered in joy!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The problem with those types of books is that I can pretty much guarantee that the mental illness stuff will be handled with kid gloves. I have an RPG I've been working on that's been on the backburner for a while (need to get back to it) that is a Cthulhu Mythos game. I had somebody ask me how I was going to handle the sanity part of it because they were concerned that it was such a touchy subject for so many people. Now, I'm not going to delight in portraying the very real emotional and social damage from real mental illness, but I'm also not going to downplay it, either. My philosophy is that if you can't handle the kinds of themes a game presents, don't play the game. I'm not going to alter my work to make somebody else feel better about themselves. I'm also not going to apologize for shit I've never said and beliefs I've never held, a rather annoying and stupid trend I've seen with any game that involves anything Lovecraft ever touched.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on April 08, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 08, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
True. They could censor/stop the new edition coming out in 2024 but there is nothing they can do about someone putting out something with mixed races or slavery for 5e because it's Creative Commons.
By making 5e CC they shot themselves in the foot when it comes to censoring products.
Unless, of course, they were to control the vast majority of the information sources that gamers can use to find out about "problematic" content. Which they (and their allies) do. So, let's say you want to produce material that WotC and the woke brigades disapprove of. Where are you going to publish it? You don't think DTRPG/OBS won't immediately fall in line? How will prospective players find out about your material? RPGnet? ENWorld? They don't need to stop you from playing the way you want. They just need to not promote/acknowledge/transmit your work and let you languish alone...
The Creative Commons move is a similar bet to the OGL. They are betting that they can expand the network with 3rd party content - so they accept a minor drop in sales, while increasing the value of the brand. The new third party content will only minorly interfere with WotC sales, but will mostly take over risky and/or low-profit adventures.
As long as no third party brand gets mainstream traction like Pathfinder did, then D&D remains the most recognizable brand name and the center of the network.
Regarding censorship...
I suspect that Hasbro profits from politically incorrect third-party content, as long as it is doesn't get associated with their brand name. It
helps them keep stoking the fires of controversy, by selling to their liberal base as "those other people would hate it that we're publishing this".
I also suspect that by extending the network, it may help recruit moderate conservative players. The hard core might never play, but a casual player introduced via the OSR might later play with 5E players. In general, adjacent networks can help the core network, as long as they're recruiting players around the edges rather than stealing the base.
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on April 07, 2023, 11:48:04 PM
For that matter, why isn't dwarfism considered a disability in RPGs?
It is, in Gurps and Hero. Both games use the "a disadvantage hinders you, which is why it provides extra points" model. This methodology has assumptions that are contrary to the current Woke narrative.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 08, 2023, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on April 07, 2023, 11:48:04 PM
For that matter, why isn't dwarfism considered a disability in RPGs?
It is, in Gurps and Hero. Both games use the "a disadvantage hinders you, which is why it provides extra points" model. This methodology has assumptions that are contrary to the current Woke narrative.
Fair - but on the other hand, it's also true that GURPS and HERO often have heroes with disabilities, which is something that a number of posters have argued against. We had some discussion of this a few years back in FATE discussion and a follow-up thread I started.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/essay-gurps-and-the-fate-accessibility-toolkit/
Essay: "GURPS and the Fate Accessibility Toolkit"
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/cool-uses-of-disabilities-in-games/
Cool uses of disabilities in games
Quote from: jhkim on April 09, 2023, 02:51:25 AM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 08, 2023, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on April 07, 2023, 11:48:04 PM
For that matter, why isn't dwarfism considered a disability in RPGs?
It is, in Gurps and Hero. Both games use the "a disadvantage hinders you, which is why it provides extra points" model. This methodology has assumptions that are contrary to the current Woke narrative.
Fair - but on the other hand, it's also true that GURPS and HERO often have heroes with disabilities, which is something that a number of posters have argued against. We had some discussion of this a few years back in FATE discussion and a follow-up thread I started.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/essay-gurps-and-the-fate-accessibility-toolkit/
Essay: "GURPS and the Fate Accessibility Toolkit"
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/cool-uses-of-disabilities-in-games/
Cool uses of disabilities in games
Really? Someone has argued against having Daredevil? Professor X?
I'm gonna need to see some evidence of that.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 09, 2023, 03:21:00 AM
Quote from: jhkim on April 09, 2023, 02:51:25 AM
Fair - but on the other hand, it's also true that GURPS and HERO often have heroes with disabilities, which is something that a number of posters have argued against. We had some discussion of this a few years back in FATE discussion and a follow-up thread I started.
Really? Someone has argued against having Daredevil? Professor X?
I'm gonna need to see some evidence of that.
I mean, you were around for these discussion. These are some comments from the latter thread.
Quote from: SHARK on February 22, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
I think all of this "deep effort" to include disabilities and focus on disabled characters is honestly pathetic, pandering, disrespectful, and entirely in poor taste.
I don't find anything funny about it, or particularly "sensitive" to include such rules in a game. It's bullshit.
Quote from: Snowman0147 on February 22, 2020, 11:02:21 PM
As a person with a mental disability I can say this. FUCK ANYONE ONE THAT DRAGS DISABILITIES INTO ANY GAME! Can we just have our fucking escapism where we play as people that are far better and more heroic than us? Can we just do that?
Quote from: ElBorak on February 28, 2020, 01:02:10 AM
I agree with this, IMO there are no cool ways to include disabilities in a game.
There was earlier discussion of this as well. I think the problem was that discussion of disabilities started with discussion of left-leaning products like the FATE Accessibility book and Sara Thompson's combat wheelchair -- and many posters went from there to saying that any disabled characters were unsuitable as PCs.
Quote from: jhkim on April 09, 2023, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 09, 2023, 03:21:00 AM
Quote from: jhkim on April 09, 2023, 02:51:25 AM
Fair - but on the other hand, it's also true that GURPS and HERO often have heroes with disabilities, which is something that a number of posters have argued against. We had some discussion of this a few years back in FATE discussion and a follow-up thread I started.
Really? Someone has argued against having Daredevil? Professor X?
I'm gonna need to see some evidence of that.
I mean, you were around for these discussion. These are some comments from the latter thread.
Quote from: SHARK on February 22, 2020, 10:46:18 PM
I think all of this "deep effort" to include disabilities and focus on disabled characters is honestly pathetic, pandering, disrespectful, and entirely in poor taste.
I don't find anything funny about it, or particularly "sensitive" to include such rules in a game. It's bullshit.
Quote from: Snowman0147 on February 22, 2020, 11:02:21 PM
As a person with a mental disability I can say this. FUCK ANYONE ONE THAT DRAGS DISABILITIES INTO ANY GAME! Can we just have our fucking escapism where we play as people that are far better and more heroic than us? Can we just do that?
Quote from: ElBorak on February 28, 2020, 01:02:10 AM
I agree with this, IMO there are no cool ways to include disabilities in a game.
There was earlier discussion of this as well. I think the problem was that discussion of disabilities started with discussion of left-leaning products like the FATE Accessibility book and Sara Thompson's combat wheelchair -- and many posters went from there to saying that any disabled characters were unsuitable as PCs.
Are you seriously equating those turds with GURPS or HERO?
You're either being disingenuous or need a strong dose of coffee, in GURPS/HERO disabilities ARE a negative which is why you get points to buy other traits when you take one.
On the other hand in those turds disabilities AREN'T a negative AND are negated completely: Combat wheelchair, I remember that discussion, in order for it to work you need to turn pseudo medieval Europe and it's dungeons into wheelchair accessible 2023 Seattle.
Lets go back to Daredevil: He's blind, which is negated by his superpower (how else would he be a superhero?), said superpower does come with it's drawbacks tho, you can render him "blind" if you know how it works, by using strong sounds.
BUT, when talking about DnD it doesn't make sense to have Professor X going dungeon delving, because of his wheelchair. But you could totally have him as a retired adventurer that gives advice, loans money/books, etc.
That was the argument back then and still is even if you wan't to twist it into something else.
jkhim is weapons grade demoralization. The posts full of disingenuous sophistry, then people wearing themselves to a nub trying to get him to acknowledge his antics.
If someone told me he was a cyborg sent back in time by the wokists on 2123, I would believe it.
I.Q 105: "We're sick of people using disabilities as character dressing, and insisting they have no actual negatives."
I.Q. 3000: "So you're saying you don't like hindrances in old game systems."
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 09, 2023, 01:24:51 PM
jkhim is weapons grade demoralization. The posts full of disingenuous sophistry, then people wearing themselves to a nub trying to get him to acknowledge his antics.
If someone told me he was a cyborg sent back in time by the wokists on 2123, I would believe it.
I.Q 105: "We're sick of people using disabilities as character dressing, and insisting they have no actual negatives."
I.Q. 3000: "So you're saying you don't like hindrances in old game systems."
I spent a couple of years trying to penetrate his intellectual dishonesty and finally rescued my sanity by putting him on my Ignore List.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 09, 2023, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 09, 2023, 01:24:51 PM
jkhim is weapons grade demoralization. The posts full of disingenuous sophistry, then people wearing themselves to a nub trying to get him to acknowledge his antics.
If someone told me he was a cyborg sent back in time by the wokists on 2123, I would believe it.
I.Q 105: "We're sick of people using disabilities as character dressing, and insisting they have no actual negatives."
I.Q. 3000: "So you're saying you don't like hindrances in old game systems."
I spent a couple of years trying to penetrate his intellectual dishonesty and finally rescued my sanity by putting him on my Ignore List.
It's not about changing his mind (although that would be nice), it's about not letting the BS go unchallenged.
Quote from: jhkim on April 09, 2023, 02:51:25 AM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 08, 2023, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on April 07, 2023, 11:48:04 PM
For that matter, why isn't dwarfism considered a disability in RPGs?
It is, in Gurps and Hero. Both games use the "a disadvantage hinders you, which is why it provides extra points" model. This methodology has assumptions that are contrary to the current Woke narrative.
Fair - but on the other hand, it's also true that GURPS and HERO often have heroes with disabilities, which is something that a number of posters have argued against. We had some discussion of this a few years back in FATE discussion and a follow-up thread I started.
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/essay-gurps-and-the-fate-accessibility-toolkit/
Essay: "GURPS and the Fate Accessibility Toolkit"
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/cool-uses-of-disabilities-in-games/
Cool uses of disabilities in games
"Oh. Fate Accessibility Toolkit... I forgot you were there. You may go now." - Doc Holiday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULGaOaln6Ao