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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: wulfgar on May 13, 2008, 04:44:12 PM

Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: wulfgar on May 13, 2008, 04:44:12 PM
There's a used bookstore in one of the towns I travel to for work every couple of months.  I always go over and check out the rpg shelf but usually it's all D20 and White Wolf stuff that doesn't interest me.  Today I walk in at lunch, and there's a whole bunch of other stuff!  So has anyone played any of these?  Are they gaming junk or gaming gems?

-Millenium's End
-Waste World
-Gamma World 4th Edition
-Heavy Gear 2nd Edition
-Fading Suns
-Providence

The one that piqued my interest the  most was Millenium's End, and I say they seemed less interesting the farther down my list, but I really didn't have time to look over any of them too much.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Dr Rotwang! on May 13, 2008, 04:45:43 PM
One of my Great Gaming Regrets:  Not playing more Fading Suns.

Whuzzat tellya?
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Dwight on May 13, 2008, 04:59:28 PM
Fading Suns is choice stuff if that category of setting turns your crank. Even if you don't normally go for sci-fi of far-flung worlds in a Dark Ages period you might want to give it a second check anyway.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: J Arcane on May 13, 2008, 05:06:47 PM
Gamma World 4th is pure mutant awesomeness.  The skill system needs a quick house rule, and the item identification mechanic could use some simplification, but the rest is pure gold.

You should purchase it immediately, if for no other reason than to sell the copy to me so I can have a second copy for group use.  Especially if it's still got the map in the back.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: NiallS on May 13, 2008, 06:00:22 PM
I remember really liking Millenium's End although its been a while since I read it. Its set up to play techno-thriller type stuff, private investigations, corporate espionage, anti-terrorist and government secret agency stuff and although the background is now quite dated, there's nothing to really stop you going slightly retro in the game or just making more stuff up. System I recall as looking quite elegant if involved.

If it is second hand check to see if it still has the plastic overlays that were used to indicate damage locations. I don't think they were necessary but thought they were pretty cool.

Nothing ground breaking (Merc:2000 supplement for Twilight 2000 did something similar) but it was a really good idea well presented and well written - well worth a second hand price
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: jrients on May 13, 2008, 06:03:26 PM
Fading Suns strikes me as Traveller for the Vampire crowd.  Yet I still kinda like it.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Claudius on May 13, 2008, 06:14:28 PM
The setting of Fading Suns rocks. It's a pastiche of a lot of things, certain elements of the setting don't make sense, and despite everything I like it. It's as if it screamed to me ADVENTURE!!!

One interesting note: Although it's sci-fi on surface, the setting feels very medieval, in fact it's more medieval than a lot of other RPGs that are described as medieval fantasy.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Werekoala on May 13, 2008, 06:18:23 PM
Fading Suns gets another vote here. And there is no such thing as Gamma World after 1st edition. :D
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: RPGPundit on May 13, 2008, 06:49:13 PM
Gamma World 4th is one of the best versions of the game (some people might argue in favour of 1st or 2nd; but to me 4th was the best).

RPGPundit
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: rpgnetpuppet on May 13, 2008, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: jrientsFading Suns strikes me as Traveller for the Vampire crowd.  Yet I still kinda like it.


Good call!

Have a "Good call" point on me...
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: stu2000 on May 13, 2008, 06:51:10 PM
Another ping for Millennium's End. Dug it.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: rpgnetpuppet on May 13, 2008, 06:52:40 PM
One man's garbage is another man's gold, and vice versa.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Hackmaster on May 13, 2008, 07:18:16 PM
Fading Suns gets my vote as a great game.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: pdboddy on May 13, 2008, 08:11:40 PM
Millenium's End is pretty decent, % skill system and rolls and such.  The setting is based around the fictional fact that the US lost the first Gulf War.  Even with that alternate history bit, the game is a little dated.  But it is fun.

Fading Suns is another decent one, sorta space opera-ish.  Can't remember the system much, only played it about three months or so.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: wulfgar on May 13, 2008, 09:48:57 PM
So of course I go back and pick up the one that nobody recommended  :)

I got Waste World, the Campaign Pack w/ screen, and the Shogunate supplement for the game.  Not bad for $12.  It basically seems like a much more mechanically slimmed down version of Rifts.  The intro on the back of the campaign book reads:

QuoteThe air is poisonous.  The seas are dead.  Mutants roam the toxic wastes.  Mechanized barbarians plunder the scattered settlements.  Sentient death machines stalk the survivors.  In the last megacities, five warrior civilizations perpare for Doomsday.  Strap on your weapons and get ready to take part in the ultimate conflict.

On top of that, one of sample characters is a Tyranasaurus with a machine gun and in the background of the cover for the supplement there is a tiger walking by with a machine gun mounted on its back.  Who wouldn't want to play this game!

Millenium's End looks cool, but combat seems to have a ton of book keeping involved, you track damage by wound location of which there are 30some and you keep track of the rate of blood loss for each wound.  Almost pulled the trigger but put it back on the shelf.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Mcrow on May 13, 2008, 10:15:32 PM
Fading Suns and GM4 are both nice pickups, don't know a lot about the rest.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: GrayPumpkin on May 14, 2008, 12:20:06 AM
I never played Millennium's End but I owned it and used it as a source book/inspiration for a gritty, street level supers game I was running at the time. It was sorta like a Tom Clancy RPG. It was very into the current tech so it's doubtless suffered some dating.
I loved the Fading Suns setting, and yeah it was like Traveller for the Vampire crowd, which makes sense as it was made by a bunch of folks that had left White Wolf. But I was never crazy about the game mechanics.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Bradford C. Walker on May 14, 2008, 01:19:27 AM
Heavy Gear is one of my favorite science fiction games.  Until late in its run, it was one of the few one-planet settings that didn't suck or fail to account for its posited changes in the culture and societies therein, but due to a lot of those being subtle and fluffy instead of obvious and crunchy they often got missed by folks.  Too many people fixated on the titular mecha (the Gears) and failed to see the underlying conflicts ready for playing all over the place.

I say that the second edition--not the first, not the third--is the best one out there and despite not being able to get a group to play it I retain possession of my materials because it really is that damned good.  What it lacks is in the "So, what do I do with it?" department; the two published campaign scenarios don't make full use of the fantastic elements in Heavy Gear's technology and society and leave GMs not fully conversant with the whole corpus bereft of any sense of what to do about the scenarios that can't be done with another game that's more popular or gamer-friendly.  Done in by collectors and IP empire building, Heavy Gear's flaws require techniques similar to dealing with the Realms.  It's worth it, but only if you and your group are willing to dive into the setting.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: grubman on May 14, 2008, 08:56:13 PM
Quote from: wulfgar-Gamma World 4th Edition

This usually fetches a good price on eBay ($25-$35), so if it's like $10, and you're even remotely interested, it would be worth to give it a read...you can alwasy sell it if it doesn't work for you.

Like Pundit said, it's the "best" edition of Gamma World by normal RPG standards...that said, I play 1st edition with a few smatterings of 2nd ed. stuff.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Zachary The First on May 15, 2008, 12:11:13 AM
I'd say a yes on Fading Suns.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Balbinus on May 15, 2008, 07:25:54 AM
Quite a few people consider WasteWorld to contain the best engine of any rpg yet published.

I wouldn't go that far myself, but it has a definite following.  If you don't like it you could likely sell it on ebay, though I'd announce here and on rpg.net you were doing so.
Title: Is this stuff garbage or gold?
Post by: Silverlion on May 15, 2008, 08:14:21 AM
Quote from: wulfgarThere's a used bookstore in one of the towns I travel to for work every couple of months.  I always go over and check out the rpg shelf but usually it's all D20 and White Wolf stuff that doesn't interest me.  Today I walk in at lunch, and there's a whole bunch of other stuff!  So has anyone played any of these?  Are they gaming junk or gaming gems?

-Millenium's End
-Waste World
-Gamma World 4th Edition
-Heavy Gear 2nd Edition
-Fading Suns
-Providence

The one that piqued my interest the  most was Millenium's End, and I say they seemed less interesting the farther down my list, but I really didn't have time to look over any of them too much.


Providence is one of my favorite game settings. Brilliantly envisioned world but you need the full compliment of world books (World book, Cry-Star, Bone Wail, etc.) to get how good it is. The rules are not my favorite--overly complicated and inelegant.

Gamma World 4th is one of the better renditions of the game (its class and level, but its reasonably well balanced--about the worst criticism I've seen is towards its non-d20 style skill system, which makes sense) I love the game a lot.


Millennium's End is a pretty decent technothriller game, I liked it well enough but gave away my copy because I simply don't do the genre well without heavy twists (aliens, cyborgs, monsters.)


Waste World I highly, HIGHLY recommend. It's a solid engine (similar to Talislanta but with a point based PC generation AND example templates), uses a single d20 for task rolls, and is basically "Rifts done right", a high science fantasy post apocalyptic setting with good balance, and fun things like samurai with lightsabers (energy swords), robots, aliens, psychomaguses and more.

I am glad you got it--I didn't realize you were asking this earlier. (I've been away from computers a lot lately. Long story.)