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Someone privately sent me this:

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Alright, the Compendium is free, and the work I did for my D&D game-including the Cube World pdfs-will no longer be available any other way. It will ship anywhere in the world, free.
 
Again, all this goes away Jan 1. It will not be available any more nor will any of this stuff. This is a limited edition collectors' item.
 
Here's the deal: there are a lot of you. You send messages of support, you ask for game stuff I make, you are lovely and-frankly-it's really hard to find you or talk to you.
 
So, in order to help do this, anyone who wants this Compendium should perform the following social media tasks. If this seems absolutely impossible and horrible, remember you can send me 1000$ instead and I will rush-ship the Compendium to you immediately (VenMo ZakZSmith ).
 
Otherwise-to get the book, do this stuff. If there is some specific task that is technically impossible for some reason, get in touch and we'll find something else you can do to replace that task.
 
If you're thinking "But I'm not on social media" well that's the problem: you aren't. But now you will be.
 
(Please note also that if anyone spots a mistake in the Compendium I may change it at this point, so the precise page order of the Compendium you see in the ads might be different than what you get, but all the material you've seen in the posts/ads will be there.)
 
Please follow the instructions carefully, they matter. Keep in mind the difference between a "post" and a "comment".
 
1. A lot of platforms are named below-within a week of receiving this email send me your screen names on those platforms along an email with the subject line, all-caps ******************. In the email you don't have to send anything else but your screen-names in that email. The screennames can be whatever works for you-some people like to be anonymous, some do not care. Put some kind of picture in your avatar on platforms that have avatars so people can remember you. Post what you like on these platforms but do not get thrown off.
 
2. Join the Cube World Crew Discord server, invite here: ****************** Make at least 10 posts there before December 25.
 
3. Join the LotFP Discord server if you are not already a member, invite here: ******************, whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 posts there before December 25.
 
4. Join the-formerly- Chris McDowall's OSR Discord server if you are not already a member, invite here: ****************** whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 posts there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
5. Join Reddit if you are not already a member, whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 posts (not comments, posts) on r/theOSR before Jan 1.
 
6. ���Also on Reddit: whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 comments on any subject on reddit/r/OSR before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
7. ���Also on Reddit: whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 comments on r/RPG before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
8. Also on Reddit: whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 posts on r/Lotfp before Dec 25. This place is hostile but technically they want to encourage LotFP talk, so if you reference my stuff, only do so in the context of LotFP products.
 
���9. Join RPGGeek if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 comments there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
����10. Join Boardgamegeek if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 comments there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
����11. Join theRPGsite if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 comments there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
����12. Join RPGnet if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 comments there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
����13. Join EnWorld if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 comments there before December 25 on any subject but remember, this place is hostile, so do not talk about me or my projects there right now.
 
����14. Join Twitter (aka X) - https://twitter.com/- if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 posts there before Jan 1. Make sure you follow @ihititwithmyaxe
 
15. Also on Twitter, retweet this post here: ****************** AND leave a comment underneath it
 
����16. Also on Twitter, follow all the other people who leave a comment underneath it.
 
����17. Also on Twitter send at least 10 public @ messages to the other people who like or share that post-it can be literally about anything, just interact.
 
����18. I may make or share up to 4 other posts on twitter which do nothing other than show off what's in the Compendium-share those.
 
����19. Join Bluesky (https://bsky.app/) if you are not already a member: whether you are already member or not, make at least 10 posts there before Jan 1. Make sure you follow @zakthepainter
 
����20. Also on Bluesky, reshare this post here: ********************* and leave a comment underneath it
 
21. ����Also on Bluesky follow all the other people who leave a comment underneath it
 
22. ����Also on Bluesky send at least 10 public @ messages to the other people who like or share that post-it can be literally about anything, just interact.
 
23. ����I may make or share up to 4 other posts on Bluesky which show off what's in the Compendium, share those.
 
����24. Join the Official LotFP Facebook page if you are not already a member, https://www.facebook.com/aroups/lotfp.
 
����25. Join the Tabletop RPG One Shot Group Facebook page if you are not already a member, here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/tabletoprpgoneshot, whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 comments or posts before Jan 1. Keep in mind if you have your own projects that there are limits on self-promotion posts in the rules.
 
����26. Join the Old School TSR Gamers Facebook page if you are not already a member, here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/osts, whether you are already a member or not, make at least 10 comments before Jan 1. Keep in mind posts there must be about TSR-era stuff and you gotta answer a few simple anti-bot questions to get in.
 
����27. Join every OSR and tabletop RPG group you can on Facebook. I can't enforce this, but l am asking you to and it helps.
 
����28. Make a Tumblr account if you don't already have one, follow https://zaksmith.tumblr.com/ retumbl at least 5 of my things before Dec 25.
 
29. Leave a comment on this post on dndwithpornstars: https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2024/11/it-will-be-here-it-will-cost-0-and-then.html
 
����30. Leave 10 other comments on dndwithpornstars on any posts.
 
����31. Sometime before January 8th you will receive a NEWS UPDATE marked ZAK NEWS UPDATE. After getting this, make at least 2 comments on each of these platforms.
 
Ground rules:
 
- Don't post anything that makes my life worse. Don't get thrown off any platforms. Don't say anything that isn't true. Be nice to your fellow Cube fans. They love games.
 
�- If there is any major positive news from me, you will get an email from me. If so, and if this news is discussed in any of the places above, write helpful comments in all the places above where it is being discussed.
 
- �If you want two copies, then all these things have to be done by 3 different people, 3 sets of accounts etc..
 
32. Before Jan 8th, send me an email with the subject line, all-caps ******************. It should contain screencapped evidence you've done the things on this list and the address you want your book sent to. I will then have the book shipped to you, anywhere in the world.
 
If you want to pay for shipping, be my guest.
 
-Z

I guess if true, you forgot that some people like this "hostile" site, even among those who like your books.
And sadly, from here on people who post nice things about your work will be under the shadow of doubt as to whether they're just doing it for merch.

Also, why the fuck would you need a bunch of proxies on this website?

Wow, that's hilariously lame.

Imagine needing to bribe people to say nice things about you...

(https://i.imgur.com/1Tx7J1Z.gif)

That's a creative marketing scheme, at least.  Though I'm not sure about its efficacy; if the same couple dozen people keep jumping in to praise him on whatever site, I'd think it would be quickly suspicious to the regulars there.  Maybe not on the unwashed masses places like twitter or reddit, but the smaller forums I expect would notice the trend.

Also in the grand scheme of things, RPGsite is downright friendly to Zak; he hasn't been run out of town with torches and pitchforks like almost every other place on the net.  It's a little unkind to label this site as hostile.

The devil here is in the details where did it come from and who made it thats the two questions that needs to be asked to find the truth.
I'm not trying to advocate for any side just seeking truth.

Yeah, this really needs to be verified as true or false. It is almost too neat and could be a false flag operation.

Note that I'm not trying to defend Zak, but this looks like a tar baby and I wouldn't want anyone to get stuck to it.

Wow.  That is some densely organized sheeeeeite.

:) It's also a lot of work on many cross-platforms that I don't want to bother with new usernames and passwords. Yeah, not gonna happen on my part. :D It'd be cheaper in terms of time and effort to just buy what you'd want, I'd think.

Whether it is an opposition operation against Zak or a bemusing bunch of hoops to limit the giveaway, it definitely looks like more effort to dream up, compile, and post than to be worth it. I'd like to at least think Zak is busier with creating new product than watching people prance for freebies. Or at least I'd like to think so after all the drama of recent years.

;) Not really going to dwell long on such things. As much as I enjoy a good fictional drama I don't seek it in my own real life. So water off a duck's back for me. Have fun everyone sussing out the truth. :D

You guys aren't very smart.

Every time there's a conspiracy theory on here someone gets sued over it and there's a thread and y'all end up having to stop repeating it--haven't you noticed the pattern yet?

So:

There's a lot of people who are fans and want my stuff (apparently).

They avoid a lot of existing online RPG spaces because they are full of psychotic trash internet people.

So: I created a book. https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2024/11/it-will-be-here-it-will-cost-0-and-then.html

In order to get a book you either have to give me 1000$ (which 7 people have so far) or participate in building RPG community that isn't all psychotic trash people.

If you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

Read it. It's hilariously lame.

A way of finding out would just be to look at the /OSR, a calm and placid reddit, and observe the posting activity and the users over the last period.

See this one for example, would be a positive indicator (joined over the last 8 days, /OSR, /theOSR, /Lotfp, /rpg all at the same time
https://www.reddit.com/user/shirleyishmael/

And this one (first porn posts and goth bisexual stuff for years, suddenly joins theOSR, Lotfp, /OSr and /rpg and asks the same question across multiple platforms)
https://www.reddit.com/user/Objective-Act9127/

And this one (joined 11 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period.
https://www.reddit.com/user/EngineerGreedy4673/

This one has been interacting for a while on some fora seem to have increased his posting frequency across the aforementioned platforms. and has been a fan of Maze of the Blue medusa. Ufo-watcher. Alone its nothing, but in context, another interesting datapoint.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Ecowatcher/

Reactivated account after 2 year hiatus, last post cheering on Zak S courtcase, now posting on several of the mentioned reddits EXCLUSIVELY in the last 11 days
https://www.reddit.com/user/dvar/

Only started posting on OSR in the last 9 days, 'dipping my toe' same story, responds to Zak smith post, Lotfp, TheOSR, /rpg, /osr. Before that/rpg only and light posting activity.
https://www.reddit.com/user/belphanor/


This one seems to be legitimate, active before the period on /theOSR, only minor increase in posting frequency, a good anti-pattern
https://www.reddit.com/user/CELFRAME/

Joined 7 days ago, Lotfp, /TheOSR, /osr, /rpg
https://www.reddit.com/user/Gnostic_Goblin/

History of Onyx path publishing, Coc. First time posting on /lotfp, /osr, /theosr and /rpg for the first within the last 11 days.
https://www.reddit.com/user/riquezjp/

History of bloodbowl. No rpg posting history. First time simultaneous posting on /lotfp, /osr, /theosr and /rpg for the first within the last 4 days. Same post posted across multiple platforms.
https://www.reddit.com/user/crumpetflipper/

And this one (joined 7 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Parking_Back_659/

And this one (joined 7 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Gannaeg/

And this one (joined 10 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. Multiple articles reposted. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Ombre29/

And this one ((joined 13 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Severed_Fane/

Last activity arguing Zak S court case in OSR reddit 4 months ago. Then 11 days ago crossposting across all mentioned reddits. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Ok_Dragonfruit7102/

And this one (joined 10 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. Multiple articles reposted. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Particular_Ad_6734/

Last post 1 year ago exclusively non-OSR, activity. (joined 10 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Altruistic_Low2393/

Comprehensive /DnD activity before. Then 12 days ago, comprehensive posting activity begins. theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp. Unlike most of the sleepers, this guy seems to enjoy guitar and seems to have been active frequently on rpg related reddits so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
https://www.reddit.com/user/The_Last_radio/

And this one (joined 11 days ago, theOSR, /OSR, /rpg and then of course /lotfp). All in the same period. Posts consist of mindless enthusiasm and encouragement, a fine match for Reddit. No other reddits joined.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Perception-Stock/

Notice also no other reddits not included in the instructions are joined in the same period. These people are not very smart and their opsec is bad. I can post the screenshots of the same topic being posted across the aforementioned reddits at the same time but I cant figure out how to embed (I am also not very smart).

This seems to be all of them. 18 sleepers.

Interesting choice of a first post...

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 07:33:58 AMInteresting choice of a first post...

When in Rome...

To summarize: Zak has gone "full retard."

Never go full retard.

Pay him $1000 (the dollar sign goes first Zak)

-or-

Join some of the most toxic social media platforms around (many who ban people for not sufficiently bowing to the Woke mind-virus)

...and then he will deign grace you with some RPG product he feels is worth an amount that would make even Games Workshop blush.

If everyplace you go turns toxic, the problem isn't the places. It's you. Seek help. I recommend God.

W

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 14, 2024, 07:57:35 AMIf everyplace you go turns toxic, the problem isn't the places. It's you. Seek help. I recommend God.

Well you're on one of them, anonymous religious Chris.

Well this explains the increased membership requests to the LotFP Facebook page.

I'm having flashbacks to the days of record labels trying to recruit for their street teams. (and a quick google shows it's still a thing; I hadn't heard about street teams for many years now...)

I think this current effort needs some old school "put up flyers around your local game store" encouragement to be legit.

Now that the "brigade" instruction is confirmed to be taking place, the next action should be to inform the relevant institutions being targeted, and leave it up to them to consider an appropriate response. They might concur with Zak that there is nothing strange about this. Then again, they might find it disturbing and impose sanctions. But they should be informed regardless. I would be curious to learn if James Raggi himself was even informed that sleeper agents were to be placed in his official Lotfp facebook group.

Edit: It seems he was not. This is certainly unprofessional and embarassing.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMYou guys aren't very smart.

Every time there's a conspiracy theory on here someone gets sued over it and there's a thread and y'all end up having to stop repeating it--haven't you noticed the pattern yet?

So:

There's a lot of people who are fans and want my stuff (apparently).

They avoid a lot of existing online RPG spaces because they are full of psychotic trash internet people.

So: I created a book. https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2024/11/it-will-be-here-it-will-cost-0-and-then.html

In order to get a book you either have to give me 1000$ (which 7 people have so far) or participate in building RPG community that isn't all psychotic trash people.

If you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

Well, it would seem less conspiratorial if you'd said that in public. Also, if you hadn't designated theRPGsite, one of the places you are freely able to post, as "hostile" (does "hostile" in this context just mean there are people who criticize you?).

For the record, I don't care if people come in because you asked them to, and if they're genuine fans (and they'd have to be to agree to do this) I wouldn't care if they spoke well of you or their products. But this makes it seem like they're going to be doing covert advertising for you, which I think is counterproductive for you.

A wiser thing might be to trust your fans and supporters and let them use their own voice; at least that's always worked for me.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 14, 2024, 09:05:44 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMYou guys aren't very smart.

Every time there's a conspiracy theory on here someone gets sued over it and there's a thread and y'all end up having to stop repeating it--haven't you noticed the pattern yet?

So:

There's a lot of people who are fans and want my stuff (apparently).

They avoid a lot of existing online RPG spaces because they are full of psychotic trash internet people.

So: I created a book. https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2024/11/it-will-be-here-it-will-cost-0-and-then.html

In order to get a book you either have to give me 1000$ (which 7 people have so far) or participate in building RPG community that isn't all psychotic trash people.

If you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

Well, it would seem less conspiratorial if you'd said that in public. Also, if you hadn't designated theRPGsite, one of the places you are freely able to post, as "hostile" (does "hostile" in this context just mean there are people who criticize you?).

It means specifically they say things that aren't true--and do it without any accountability.

For example the first page of this thread where people invented the idea that these folks had to say nice things about me.

Or just now where someone said it was "unprofessional"--as if I am under contract to anybody.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 14, 2024, 09:10:19 AMit seem like they're going to be doing covert advertising for you,

Yeah you made that up.

You had an entire agreement in front of you "If you do x you get y"--and still you (just like every other idiot) decided to fantasize some extra clauses in there.

See:

The making things up is the problem.

QuoteA wiser thing might be to trust your fans and supporters and let them use their own voice; at least that's always worked for me.

We have a very different definition of "work"--and we have very different starting conditions.

You want money out of your fans--you ask for money.

I don't need money from them (I am not selling the Compendium in the normal sense).

I need them to work attempt to overcome the psychotic shitshow that the online RPG scene has become.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 12:57:11 PMI need them to work attempt to overcome the psychotic shitshow that the online RPG scene has become.

You 'need' them to do this? To what end?

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 01:47:00 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 12:57:11 PMI need them to work attempt to overcome the psychotic shitshow that the online RPG scene has become.

You 'need' them to do this? To what end?

To all the ends that a halfway decent RPG scene has:

-To help each other when they have questions about their games

-To help each other when they have ideas for projects

-To answer questions about other peoples' stuff honestly

-To work together collaboratively to make new projects and new ideas

-To make conditions for doing this less tedious and cost less in terms of time and social media friction

-To spread information faster and with less noise and less telephone-game-bullshit

-To be less boring to be around

-to be less boring to retrieve ideas and information from

:D Well I for one am glad this has all been cleared up. And hopefully it will inject new blood into the scene for the better in the future. :) Welcome newbies, stay awhile in Mos Eisley, enjoy the music.

That said, I probably would have given a courtesy heads up explainer of purpose (either at the header of the topic post or direct message to said sites) to alleviate any concerns of malefactors. It is involving them indirectly as part of a giveaway, so to get ahead of any confusion being direct with the unaware factors is a nice thing to do. :) Sometimes a little bit of consideration sugar really does go a long way. :D

Mystery solved! Try not to hold hard feelings over something far more innocent than suspected. And remember to be good to each other!

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 14, 2024, 02:51:51 PMThat said, I probably would have given a courtesy heads up explainer of purpose (either at the header of the topic post or direct message to said sites) to alleviate any concerns of malefactors.

15 years of experience in the RPG scene have taught me:

1. Before-the-fact consideration: It would not have worked and site owners would have been suspicious and stupid about it anyway and assumed ulterior motive.
2. After-the-fact-realization: I would have missed out on the opportunity to provide this very clear object lesson in how suspicious and stupid the RPG scene has gotten "People want a book so joined a site! Conspiracy!!! We are victims!!! Fabricate misinformation!". There. Proved.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMIf you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

I reed gud.  It's sort of necessary in this hobby.

QuoteIf there is any major positive news from me, you will get an email from me. If so, and if this news is discussed in any of the places above, write helpful comments in all the places above where it is being discussed.

Quote from: Valatar on December 14, 2024, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMIf you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

I reed gud.  It's sort of necessary in this hobby.

QuoteIf there is any major positive news from me, you will get an email from me. If so, and if this news is discussed in any of the places above, write helpful comments in all the places above where it is being discussed.

"Helpful" does not mean "praiseful of me specifically".

"Helpful" means it helps people. For example: if you order a book from me and arrives damaged then it is helpful to people to say that.

Again:

If you can't read, do not post comments on the internet.

The only reason this asshole is still around is because you people keep engaging with him.

Stop doing that, and he will go away.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 14, 2024, 03:37:17 PMThe only reason this asshole is still around is because you people keep engaging with him.

Stop doing that, and he will go away.

It is true that I only ever come here to fact-check.

If everybody could stop making shit up, I wouldn't have to come here and correct it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 03:46:16 PMIt is true that I only ever come here to fact-check.

Did I retract my "don't quote me ever again" statement to you from several years back?

No?

Fuck off forever, shitheel.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 14, 2024, 03:55:15 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 03:46:16 PMIt is true that I only ever come here to fact-check.

Did I retract my "don't quote me ever again" statement to you from several years back?

No?

Fuck off forever, shitheel.

I'd be happy to make an agreement whereby you never refer to me, ever and, in exchange, I never quote you.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:03:28 PMI'd be happy to make an agreement whereby you never refer to me, ever and, in exchange, I never quote you.

Given how obviously litigious you are, I would never agree to any formal agreement with you.

Kindly crawl back into the fucking hole from whence you came.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 14, 2024, 04:10:47 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:03:28 PMI'd be happy to make an agreement whereby you never refer to me, ever and, in exchange, I never quote you.

Given how obviously litigious you are, I would never agree to any formal agreement with you.

Kindly crawl back into the fucking hole from whence you came.

Oh well.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 03:06:35 PM

Quote from: Valatar on December 14, 2024, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMIf you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work. You guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

How did you guys get this stupid? Can you read?

I reed gud.  It's sort of necessary in this hobby.

QuoteIf there is any major positive news from me, you will get an email from me. If so, and if this news is discussed in any of the places above, write helpful comments in all the places above where it is being discussed.

"Helpful" does not mean "praiseful of me specifically".

"Helpful" means it helps people. For example: if you order a book from me and arrives damaged then it is helpful to people to say that.

Again:

If you can't read, do not post comments on the internet.

I would buy that along with a Scottish nobility title, except I wasn't born yesterday and I know that people with established accounts (which you are instructing them to create) signal boosting a post (which you are instructing them to do) will tremendously boost its exposure.  Someone could reply basically anything whatsoever to a "major positive" post about you and it will guarantee more eyes see it.  They don't have to post about how you're their best buddy to have the end result you're trying to achieve here, which is the aforementioned major positive posts or articles gaming the algorithms.

You would be less tiresome as a person if you would refrain from pissing on people and telling them it's raining.  It's obvious what you're doing here to anyone with the faintest modicum of experience with SEO, which most Internet users have at this point.  There's not even anything to gain from denying it; gaming the algorithm is so everyday at this point (like and subscribe!) that I doubt anyone sees it as unethical.  You really can just say, "Yep, I'm giving people merch to improve my exposure," and it's not some scandal.  Though like BlueWave up there points out, any admin actually paying attention to user activity would pretty quickly spot those users.

Because you aren't intelligent you have moved the goalposts from

Quotepost nice things about your work

and

Quotesay nice things about you

to

Quote from: Valatar on December 14, 2024, 04:20:39 PMguarantee more eyes see it

So, your thing is totally irrelevant.

Yes, I would like many people to see the book where, to get it, you either pay me 1000$ or help make the RPG community suck less. This is in no way sinister.

No, I don't want to do the stupid and wholly unrelated other thing y'all made up.

You are moving the goalposts to do the thing where you're like "I'm wrong...but maybe that means I'm right in some new, unheard-of-way".

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:33:46 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

serious question: what RPG community doesn't suck?

this site is pretty good--people are generally cool. But places like rpg.net, or even reddit, are absolute cesspools from my experience. Even FB is pretty trashy

I don't really care what a guy's politics or ideology are (within reason) as long as he can act like an adult and not some chronically-offended grown-up-child. I am Gen X, and we just don't have time for bullshit.

if you know of good sites and groups, go ahead and let me know

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 14, 2024, 09:10:19 AMA wiser thing might be to trust your fans and supporters and let them use their own voice; at least that's always worked for me.

That's disgustingly reasonable and free market of you. It's also not how you create an Emotionally Safe Environment.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 14, 2024, 08:44:13 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 14, 2024, 09:10:19 AMA wiser thing might be to trust your fans and supporters and let them use their own voice; at least that's always worked for me.

That's disgustingly reasonable and free market of you. It's also not how you create an Emotionally Safe Environment.

Again, Pundit's definition of "works" is not mine.

By my lights, having a forum where mostly what people do is talk and they routinely say things that aren't true and completely dodge accountability for that is not "working".

In fact, it isn't clear what "works" means for Pundit? So it's kind of meaningless.

Anyway, so long as this thread keeps going I might as well post things from the book:

400 pages. 200-odd scenarios. Tables and tools.


(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgdODOLhHMJUJ8GCw2MadDFNgMmijd7CZv7uq1AVUG3JUX1TAXP9JoRGDui5aIj2eiUxMsVwmZnbvtDy8XuxhUUiL-w-5bo-l8mrqqfvN_mNHFo0wqaWptKAQMKraUNHXqB47o9MrMnc6AT9v7Len1iMPz7RyqLo3a-hHjKmL7gvHdfwY51MzPsXIRj_AQX/s640/IMG_6508.jpg)

Flip-through video here (https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2024/11/it-will-be-here-it-will-cost-0-and-then.html).

It is interesting to observe these interactions from a sociological point of view because there are few people with less self-awareness and ability to learn from their mistakes. While in actuality the Vivka Grey lawsuit has been an unmitigated disaster, with six out of eight of the accusations now legally declared to be true and many unflattering peripherals coming to light, the fact that it can be stated that Zak won a lawsuit has a face validity that would in any other situation give him back some credibility. But any interaction in a space that is not carefully controlled by pet moderators leaves one with the inescapable conclusion that he probably should have been cancelled even harder.

In this light this forum performs a vital service to the wider community by facilitating further interactions. There is a Sun Tzu-like genius to just letting Zak speak his mind that I think should be aknowledged, if only by myself. The way he can appear both contemptuous and threatening while also being completely caught in the act and confronted with the fact he has spies even in his tiny inner circle is art, easily superior to the addled scribblings he peddles at grossly inflated costs. The beauty of seeing him brag that seven people have purchased his book, contrasted with his attempt to squeeze his fans for shipping costs, illustrating his destitute status. A lesser mind would remove the astroturfed accounts for joining under false pretences but here, again, an enlightened administrator allows them to simply exist, inevitably illustrating their poverty, low status and diseases of the mind by their own actions. Who would price their time, the most precious resource in the universe, so very low?

Poetry.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 15, 2024, 05:11:56 AMIt is interesting to observe these interactions from a sociological point of view because there are few people with less self-awareness and ability to learn from their mistakes. While in actuality the Vivka Grey lawsuit has been an unmitigated disaster...

Despite the fact an anonymous 4chan troll tried to spin a win as a loss and you believed it, to quote Dr Weisman:
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/1832ba95d1fe19c0aa54e03027a01da2/273f75cf5ab2562a-11/s1280x1920/b0e7a80489c453f66135ed23f3ea13d5c95dbfd3.pnj)

Her article about you here:
https://archive.is/0Nv3c

The audio clips of your fellow harassers admitting what they did have been preserved here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJAJNbF2Tg

If you think I did anything wrong or that there was some horrible "revelation" you can describe : sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury saying so.

I read the court document last night, after asking someone posting defamation about Zak for any evidence to support their claim.

It seems there are a group of people actively persecuting him on multiple platforms.

It also seems these people do not know how to read court documents or what the words there are intended to mean.

They think they are heroes for their campaign of harassment. They are ignoring statements in the document.

Cherry-picking which items are relevant and which are not relevant is a dangerous game, I would say a fools game.

Zak won and Viv was exposed as being manipulative.

The court does not deem Zak a problem to the community sufficient to issue a protection order against him or to have fined him, following Vivs allegations.

Their document uses the description 'false allegations' on page one.

The court awarded Zak a Win and Viv a Not Win.

This tells us about the courts opinion of the situation.

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:33:46 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

You don't really believe that, do you? If so, you're only fooling yourself.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 07:58:50 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:33:46 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

You don't really believe that, do you? If so, you're only fooling yourself.

Since you're a troll you are posting (by definition) as an end in itself. The posting (and the reaction to it) is the entertainment for you.

The only reason I ever post something on the game internet is to achieve some goal having to do with games--an offline activity. Posting is a means to that end.

Those are basically opposite goals.

As I said earlier, I want an RPG scene where the goals are:

-To help each other when they have questions about their games

-To help each other when they have ideas for projects

-To answer questions about other peoples' stuff honestly

-To work together collaboratively to make new projects and new ideas

-To make conditions for doing this less tedious and cost less in terms of time and social media friction

-To spread information faster and with less noise and less telephone-game-bullshit

-To be less boring to be around

-to be less boring to retrieve ideas and information from

and, as a troll, you'd likely prioritize just the (perceived) entertainment value of posting over any of those basically-offline goals.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 08:04:54 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 07:58:50 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:33:46 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

You don't really believe that, do you? If so, you're only fooling yourself.

Since you're a troll you are posting (by definition) as an end in itself. The posting (and the reaction to it) is the entertainment for you.

The only reason I ever post something on the game internet is to achieve some goal having to do with games--an offline activity. Posting is a means to that end.

Those are basically opposite goals.

As I said earlier, I want an RPG scene where the goals are:

-To help each other when they have questions about their games

-To help each other when they have ideas for projects

-To answer questions about other peoples' stuff honestly

-To work together collaboratively to make new projects and new ideas

-To make conditions for doing this less tedious and cost less in terms of time and social media friction

-To spread information faster and with less noise and less telephone-game-bullshit

-To be less boring to be around

-to be less boring to retrieve ideas and information from

and, as a troll, you'd likely prioritize just the (perceived) entertainment value of posting over any of those basically-offline goals.

So how does your current effort (the one this thread is about) work to achieve those goals?

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 08:07:38 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 08:04:54 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 07:58:50 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:33:46 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 14, 2024, 04:30:06 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 04:27:11 PMor help make the RPG community suck less

There are obviously those that feel you could make a stronger contribution to this effort by just dropping out of the community altogether, so why should we accept your opinion of what makes the community suck less over theirs?

I would never argue that you should accept my definition of an unsucky RPG community--you're an anonymous internet troll.

We have, therefore, wholly opposite goals.

You don't really believe that, do you? If so, you're only fooling yourself.

Since you're a troll you are posting (by definition) as an end in itself. The posting (and the reaction to it) is the entertainment for you.

The only reason I ever post something on the game internet is to achieve some goal having to do with games--an offline activity. Posting is a means to that end.

Those are basically opposite goals.

As I said earlier, I want an RPG scene where the goals are:

-To help each other when they have questions about their games

-To help each other when they have ideas for projects

-To answer questions about other peoples' stuff honestly

-To work together collaboratively to make new projects and new ideas

-To make conditions for doing this less tedious and cost less in terms of time and social media friction

-To spread information faster and with less noise and less telephone-game-bullshit

-To be less boring to be around

-to be less boring to retrieve ideas and information from

and, as a troll, you'd likely prioritize just the (perceived) entertainment value of posting over any of those basically-offline goals.

So how does your current effort (the one this thread is about) work to achieve those goals?

Pointing out and correcting misinformation helps identify which sources of information are reliable and which aren't.

Someone who then wants help with actual game stuff can then identify the sources they can ignore and the sources that are more worth listening to when seeking help.

As he offers literally nothing of value to this forum, I recommend placing Zak on ignore.

He has his right to speak (though it is far from absolute here). You have no obligation to listen.

Those who have involved themselves do appear to have polarised into two camps.

One camp has respect for a list of its stated goals, as well as evidence which exposes the other camp for its criminal activities.

The other camp has hearsay and allegations, is ignoring the evidence and is waging a defamation campaign.

It's that black and white it is ridiculous.

Read the list of stated goals and decide if that's you or not.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:18:52 AMYou have no obligation to listen.

Or to talk.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:18:52 AMAs he offers literally nothing of value to this forum, I recommend placing Zak on ignore.

He has his right to speak (though it is far from absolute here). You have no obligation to listen.

You do not have consent to speak for other people including myself about our opinions and decisions. It is offensive that you would assume to do that.

As far as bringing value to the forum: see list of states goals. I find that valuable. I believe those goals are worthy.

I have no idea who this dude is but fucking Y I K E S

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:23:10 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:18:52 AMAs he offers literally nothing of value to this forum, I recommend placing Zak on ignore.

He has his right to speak (though it is far from absolute here). You have no obligation to listen.

You do not have consent to speak for other people including myself about our opinions and decisions. It is offensive that you would assume to do that.

As far as bringing value to the forum: see list of states goals. I find that valuable. I believe those goals are worthy.

Where did I speak for your opinions? I made a value statement for myself and a recommendation for others, nothing more.I

You seem quite touchy and ready to lash out at anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with your thinking. I wonder why that is?

You needed telling.
You stated that someone who has proved to offer value (see: his stated list of goals) has no value to this forum.
You do not speak for me and I am a part of this forum.
I disagree with your statement.
You then levelled up your tension attempting to escalate this situation.
I stand by my original statement to be relevant to this one too.
Read the stated list of goals.
Identify if that is you also or if you will continue to troll the people who are here objectively, who respect that list of goals.
I'm not discussing this any further with you because you are hostile.

Quote from: Nobleshield on December 15, 2024, 08:36:15 AMI have no idea who this dude is but fucking Y I K E S

Open to getting to know new friends. Hi Nobleshield.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:45:15 AMYou needed telling.
You stated that someone who has proved to offer value (see: his stated list of goals) has no value to this forum.
You do not speak for me and I am a part of this forum.
I disagree with your statement.
You then levelled up your tension attempting to escalate this situation.
I stand by my original statement to be relevant to this one too.
Read the stated list of goals.
Identify if that is you also or if you will continue to troll the people who are here objectively, who respect that list of goals.
I'm not discussing this any further with you because you are hostile.

Zak? Is this your sock?

Honestly? I find the goals to be a stupid publicity stunt by someone who from every indication I've seen appears to me to be a complete narcissist with zero respect for anyone else's opinions (note how quickly he turns to calling longtime members of this community garbage people and trolls).

Maybe when you've actually contributed to genuine topics on the subject of roleplaying my opinion of you will change. For now you're just a nozzle for Zak's particular brand of toxicity.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:52:34 AM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:45:15 AMYou needed telling.
You stated that someone who has proved to offer value (see: his stated list of goals) has no value to this forum.
You do not speak for me and I am a part of this forum.
I disagree with your statement.
You then levelled up your tension attempting to escalate this situation.
I stand by my original statement to be relevant to this one too.
Read the stated list of goals.
Identify if that is you also or if you will continue to troll the people who are here objectively, who respect that list of goals.
I'm not discussing this any further with you because you are hostile.

Zak? Is this your sock?

Honestly? I find the goals to be a stupid publicity stunt by someone who from every indication I've seen appears to me to be a complete narcissist with zero respect for anyone else's opinions (note how quickly he turns to calling longtime members of this community garbage people and trolls).

Misinformation isn't an "opinion". If people troll and say things that aren't true--it's good to point that out.

As for goals-I have a record of being in the online RPG community going back to 2009 and the things I did while in it don't change and become "toxic" based on what you post.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:52:34 AM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:45:15 AMYou needed telling.
You stated that someone who has proved to offer value (see: his stated list of goals) has no value to this forum.
You do not speak for me and I am a part of this forum.
I disagree with your statement.
You then levelled up your tension attempting to escalate this situation.
I stand by my original statement to be relevant to this one too.
Read the stated list of goals.
Identify if that is you also or if you will continue to troll the people who are here objectively, who respect that list of goals.
I'm not discussing this any further with you because you are hostile.

Zak? Is this your sock?

Honestly? I find the goals to be a stupid publicity stunt by someone who from every indication I've seen appears to me to be a complete narcissist with zero respect for anyone else's opinions (note how quickly he turns to calling longtime members of this community garbage people and trolls).

Maybe when you've actually contributed to genuine topics on the subject of roleplaying my opinion of you will change. For now you're just a nozzle for Zak's particular brand of toxicity.

Excuse me what?

Now you are openly insulting me.

Other people are allowed to think differently than yourself.

Other people are allowed to think the same way as each other.

Forum T&C says you are not allowed to bring your toxic behaviour into this platform.

I will accept that your insult of calling me a 'sock' is a reply to my question as to where you stand regarding the statement of objectives which has been posted to this thread.

You clearly can not objectively separate a stated list of goals from your own personal prejudice against multiple members of this community.


 

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:23:10 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:18:52 AMAs he offers literally nothing of value to this forum, I recommend placing Zak on ignore.

He has his right to speak (though it is far from absolute here). You have no obligation to listen.

You do not have consent to speak for other people including myself about our opinions and decisions. It is offensive that you would assume to do that.

As far as bringing value to the forum: see list of states goals. I find that valuable. I believe those goals are worthy.

Stating goals does not by itself offer value, and you haven't yet considered what his unstated goals might be.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 14, 2024, 09:10:19 AMFor the record, I don't care if people come in because you asked them to, and if they're genuine fans (and they'd have to be to agree to do this) I wouldn't care if they spoke well of you or their products. But this makes it seem like they're going to be doing covert advertising for you, which I think is counterproductive for you.

A wiser thing might be to trust your fans and supporters and let them use their own voice; at least that's always worked for me.

This is exactly what I have done. I have been insulted for it.

It has nothing to do with covert advertising of a product.

It has to do with a person with their own mind, using it and speaking it.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 09:39:26 AM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 08:23:10 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:18:52 AMAs he offers literally nothing of value to this forum, I recommend placing Zak on ignore.

He has his right to speak (though it is far from absolute here). You have no obligation to listen.

You do not have consent to speak for other people including myself about our opinions and decisions. It is offensive that you would assume to do that.

As far as bringing value to the forum: see list of states goals. I find that valuable. I believe those goals are worthy.

Stating goals does not by itself offer value, and you haven't yet considered what his unstated goals might be.

I have already explained to you that you are assuming to know what and how I think and you are insulting me for it, without first discussing to find out what and how I think.

All of that is your bad.

You do not speak for me.

You are projecting your own prejudice at me.

Nothing more you have to say is worth the effort of replying to. You are proved here to be prejudice and controlling in your behaviour.

Interesting that GnosticGoblin joined this site right around the time that Zak suggested that others do exactly the same thing...

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 09:47:43 AMInteresting that GnosticGoblin joined this site right around the time that Zak suggested that others do exactly the same thing...

So the situation is that new people are coming to the site and members of the site are being hostile to them.
 
The stated reason for the hostility is because 'Zak exists.'

This site advertises itself as a place to discuss D&D and RPG related topics and products. The name of this site indicates that is its purpose.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 09:55:23 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 09:47:43 AMInteresting that GnosticGoblin joined this site right around the time that Zak suggested that others do exactly the same thing...

So the situation is that new people are coming to the site and members of the site are being hostile to them.
 
The stated reason for the hostility is because 'Zak exists.'

Is that what this site is about?

I thought it was a place to discuss D&D and RPG related topics and products because the name of this site indicates that is its purpose.

Then perhaps you should do so?

You've presently got 15 posts and 12 of them are on the subject of Zak, the rest are you posting a quote from Professor Dungeonmaster, an unclear post about not understanding dice probabilities (where I actually explained it to you and you never bothered to follow up), and one about having once owned an aliens adventure game book until some guy named Tim stole it.

Sock is short for "sock puppet" a fake account made by someone to echo and amplify their position to make it seem more popular than it is. Given your posting history and how it tag teams with Zak, it seems a valid question to at least pose.

Finally, if you agree with Zak as much as you do, why would me calling you his mouthpiece be an insult?

You personally drew me into a situation where I felt I had to defend myself because you are insulting me.

Most of my posts are not to do with Zak - they are to do with telling you straight that you are hostile to newcomers to the forum. I did absolutely nothing to offend you. What I did do was to identify that Zak is making sense and that you are being hostile.

I am not here to argue with trolls.

This forum has a banner at the top of the page which defines what this forum regards as 'sock puppet' which you have claimed I am.

I have asserted I am not.

You are in error about that.

An apology would prove you are capable of amending an offence you have caused with your paranoia.

I'm all for discussing Zak's new product on it's own merits and I believe that most of the active members here are the same.  If he had just come on here introducing his material then I think he would have found a receptive but possibly a slightly frosty reception.

While Zak did manage to win a defamation case, it doesn't take away his public record of generally being unethical and amoral.  I can point to public statements he's made, some on this site, that support this assertion.  This way of organizing he is doing on this is considered unethical by every online community I know of and appears to be in violation of US law in a couple of respects. 

He would have been much wiser to DM Pundit privately and try to hammer things out amicably rather that doing something that appears shady and then talk down to people saying it looks fishy. 

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 10:55:58 AMThis forum has a banner at the top of the page which defines what this forum regards as 'sock puppet' which you have claimed I am.

I have asserted I am not.

You are in error about that.

An apology would prove you are capable of amending an offence you have caused with your paranoia.

Yeah... I'm going to go ahead and say that you're not deserving of one.

You started out by jumping into this thread with a sharp attitude and have been pretty offensive yourself. 

Zak gets treated pretty fairly on this site and a lot of the negative interactions he gets here is for things he's done here.  You can just click on his profile and read all his public comments and see for your self.  Even then, he's not been kicked, he's not harassed in any thread, and even those that are more critical of him don't cross lines that are done in other places. 

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:06:08 AMWhile Zak did manage to win a defamation case, it doesn't take away his public record of generally being unethical and amoral.  I can point to public statements he's made, some on this site, that support this assertion. 

Point away.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:21:59 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:06:08 AMWhile Zak did manage to win a defamation case, it doesn't take away his public record of generally being unethical and amoral.  I can point to public statements he's made, some on this site, that support this assertion. 

Point away.

You took money for work and then refused to deliver.  You confirmed that you did this here in another thread.  Just because the victim in this issue chose not to pursue you over your breach of contract, you are not absolved of it. 

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:25:02 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:21:59 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:06:08 AMWhile Zak did manage to win a defamation case, it doesn't take away his public record of generally being unethical and amoral.  I can point to public statements he's made, some on this site, that support this assertion. 

Point away.

You took money for work and then refused to deliver.  You confirmed that you did this here in another thread.  Just because the victim in this issue chose not to pursue you over your breach of contract, you are not absolved of it. 

He (Alex Macris) did a bad thing, I chose to stop working with him. On moral and ethical grounds--he platformed a transphobic guy and I told him I didn't want to work with him any more.. 

I told the dude I wanted to quit working with him and he did not say "Oh you broke our contract I am going to take steps against you" (despite the fact he represented himself as a millionaire) he basically said "Oh well" and wrote it off.

He didn't represent this as any kind of issue until years later after he'd been public disgraced for working with Milo Yiannopolis and I pointed out that sucked.

There's lots of people who would back up all of that as me taking a principled stand. You might not agree with those principles because you don't care about trans people, but they are priciples.

The only atrocious behaviour I have seen since I came into this forum is on this thread. If you hate someone why do you engage with them? It obviously resolves nothing.

..and one factor contributing to Macris shrugging off giving up on our deal at the time that you know nothing about is that Macris knew he had broken previous agreements and guarantees repeatedly before that by, among other things, refusing to pay on time more than once.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:41:17 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:25:02 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:21:59 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:06:08 AMWhile Zak did manage to win a defamation case, it doesn't take away his public record of generally being unethical and amoral.  I can point to public statements he's made, some on this site, that support this assertion. 

Point away.

You took money for work and then refused to deliver.  You confirmed that you did this here in another thread.  Just because the victim in this issue chose not to pursue you over your breach of contract, you are not absolved of it. 

He (Alex Macris) did a bad thing, I chose to stop working with him. On moral and ethical grounds--he platformed a transphobic guy and I told him I didn't want to work with him any more.. 

I told the dude I wanted to quit working with him and he did not say "Oh you broke our contract I am going to take steps against you" (despite the fact he represented himself as a millionaire) he basically said "Oh well" and wrote it off.

He didn't represent this as any kind of issue until years later after he'd been public disgraced for working with Milo Yiannopolis and I pointed out that sucked.

There's lots of people who would back up all of that as me taking a principled stand. You might not agree with those principles because you don't care about trans people, but they are priciples.

You had the moral and ethical responsibility to return money you were paid if you chose to withdraw from the contract.  That's on you.

Funny you bring up the whole Milo thing because I looked into that.  You are misrepresenting things by withholding key facts to smear.  In fact, you dug that up for the purpose of smearing.  Based on things you posted, I believe you knew the truth and chose to smear anyway. 

Shame on you.

Ive been named as a participant in this thread.

There's really nothing nefarious going on. Zak had the idea to get his fans to communicate more & have a bit of a social media drive to connect everyone. To encourage that, the book is offered to those fans.

I'm not much for social media, but its prompted me to interact in a lot of places I normally wouldn't or wasn't aware of. Generally this has been good fun & I got some excellent RPG advice along the way.

Reports of a human bot-army are highly exaggerated 😂

I greatly appreciate Zaks art & his RPG content. Its among the best I think. But its hard to mention online due to the restrictions. So perhaps this will be a step to end that, its high time the witch hunt was over IMO.

Incidentally, I also appreciate Pundits work, Cults of Chaos sits on the shelf behind me.

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 11:54:38 AMIve been named as a participant in this thread.

There's really nothing nefarious going on. Zak had the idea to get his fans to communicate more & have a bit of a social media drive to connect everyone. To encourage that, the book is offered to those fans.

I'm not much for social media, but its prompted me to interact in a lot of places I normally wouldn't or wasn't aware of. Generally this has been good fun & I got some excellent RPG advice along the way.

Reports of a human bot-army are highly exaggerated 😂

I greatly appreciate Zaks art & his RPG content. Its among the best I think. But its hard to mention online due to the restrictions. So perhaps this will be a step to end that, its high time the witch hunt was over IMO.

Incidentally, I also appreciate Pundits work, Cults of Chaos sits on the shelf behind me.

Read the OP and you'll see it certainly looks shady and Pundit was right in bringing it to the light. 

I am critical of some of the professional things I've seen out of Zak.  He did them publicly and therefore we have a right to discuss them publicly.  I don't want to crucify him, I just want him to make appropriate changes, make amends, and behave better.

I have looked at some of his works and I do agree that he has talent.  I try to take all such things on their own merit.   

We get it, you're a right wing tool.

People who aren't won't agree with you, ever, so there's no use scolding them about it.

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 11:54:38 AMReports of a human bot-army are highly exaggerated

Exaggerated does not mean false and downplaying those reports is just as deceptive.

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 11:54:38 AMIve been named as a participant in this thread.

There's really nothing nefarious going on. Zak had the idea to get his fans to communicate more & have a bit of a social media drive to connect everyone. To encourage that, the book is offered to those fans.

I'm not much for social media, but its prompted me to interact in a lot of places I normally wouldn't or wasn't aware of. Generally this has been good fun & I got some excellent RPG advice along the way.

Reports of a human bot-army are highly exaggerated 😂

I greatly appreciate Zaks art & his RPG content. Its among the best I think. But its hard to mention online due to the restrictions. So perhaps this will be a step to end that, its high time the witch hunt was over IMO.

Incidentally, I also appreciate Pundits work, Cults of Chaos sits on the shelf behind me.

You spoke well here Riquez.
This sentiment is shared.

Encouraging and building an active community of people who are positively interacting in the forums.

Instead of allowing trolls to chase people away from the forums with their malicious attitude.

It is refreshing.

Let's hope we can build on this momentum into 2025.

Life is too short to be bitter and nasty or put into the defensive in web forums.

I'd rather be playing d&d than entanglements with hostile elements.

As for products, I saw some of Zak's, they're good. I did not see Pundits, I'm not even sure who Pundit is yet, I have been out of social media for a long time because of relationships children and work.

If pundit is the guy who has targeted me with hostility here for no reason beyond his own projected insecurity,  I will be telling people about it.

EDIT: nope, it was blue-wave who called me a sleeper and Chris who called me a sockpuppet. Clearly I am neither.

double post

Again, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

That's just straight up false and nobody has stood up and said "Yup, I was wrong, I am taking responsibility for that, I apologize to everyone who might've been misled".

There's no magic piece of rhetoric where dodging that is ok.

Heres's another image from the book:(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8klzSF0SL5SrLHbuqGz7mc2QbQejlIDOIoWWCC-Qo6xXB1uO1duHOsh14lp9rXjX5dr_mQ3pHNc_LNrYz3Ahe8sJwhVE4I3X7lyferAydnhFmcmp4Dv49pIUSkNV6V4AKGYL4MtfRZWpLcqEIrPsuaGI_22m7-xdCuEsGkX3wOcx2pXWcW-M1taEBBOuO/s640/IMG_6511.jpg)

Am thinking about what can be done to bring peace between these polarised an entrenched camps.

Something relevant from the RPG industry to use as a blueprint which everyone can recognise as valid and useful.

To focus on the things we all share in common instead of to focus on 'this is why you deserve to have hate dumped on you in my opinion' which is dehumanising.

On the basis someone asked why u don't post rpg related things, I will do.

There was a game called Vampire the Masquerade.
A movie was made which stole a significant amount from that game.
I learned this from a documentary about the history of the game.
The game producers, not the original people who invented it, the corporation who owned it, decided to sue the movie producers for not crediting them or asking permission to use their very obviously stolen ideas.
The argument was 'these ideas exist in the public domain so you can't own them' was responded to by 'yes only because of VtM existing did they enter the publics awareness' followed by 'how did you hear from these ideas to begin with?'
The movie producers said; 'we played VtM and we love it.'
So a pause for consideration.
Then something beautiful and magical happened.
'Hey instead of suing us, do you guys wanna come and game with us?' Said the movie producers.
'Well, maybe.' Said the VtM owners. And then; 'hell yes, can you imagine living in a world where that is even possible?'
The details of that game session are not on public record.
Everybody set aside their differences for a number of hours.
Everybody made friends.
This is true RPG history.

What can you learn from this ?

THIS IS A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO ALL ANTAGONISTIC PARTIES

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 12:40:19 PMWhat can you learn from this ?

I learned that you have trouble grouping sentences together into paragraphs. Was that the lesson?

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 12:05:06 PMRead the OP and you'll see it certainly looks shady and Pundit was right in bringing it to the light. 

I am critical of some of the professional things I've seen out of Zak.  He did them publicly and therefore we have a right to discuss them publicly.  I don't want to crucify him, I just want him to make appropriate changes, make amends, and behave better.

I have looked at some of his works and I do agree that he has talent.  I try to take all such things on their own merit. 

Indeed the OP was inevitable. It wasn't exactly hidden.
The warnings about "hostile" are just because there's a high risk of getting booted if you mention Zak.

To this forums credit, at least you guys are more tolerant of discussion.
Other places you will get hate mail if you so much as mention him.

It may or may not be shady, fucked if I know. I'm sure Zack can see how it might look shady, surely you can see that people might think that you're doing shady shit?

GnosticGoblin has a weirdly legalistic approach to their posts the reminds me of somebody.

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 12:48:34 PMIt may or may not be shady, fucked if I know.

Well there's an easy way to know:

Read it.

QuoteI'm sure Zack can see how it might look shady, surely you can see that people might think that you're doing shady shit?

That separates the intelligent from the unintelligent:

The person who actually looks at the text and sees if the thing is in there is smart and the person who goes on vibes isn't.

Everything unusual looks suspicious to stupid people.

Here's more from the book:(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiADSVLgBmwfSPnSiFI6-oa_nN9MG3nsKQERvOtIebnUFyCTh58VoflDa-LpSqBI9H8UGBJWAIrW7N6JOt7EcS0RdkauaiBO0nEs3sFiwa3GsL3HpMBzHgSlcgW_u-ARuVpDBTkAFYXflL7sJ048JPO3qq7pj4VLeOf-ecgvciUDVV6vJmd4Iy4AhG_oa7g/s640/IMG_6509.jpg)

I'm not feeling engaged by your marketing strategy of calling people stupid.

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:21:31 PMI'm not feeling engaged by your marketing strategy of calling people stupid.

That's less a marketing strategy than a moral obligation.


This is the book:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSSKjBPFe1yocB_JIHlv8fUNBeTsm6cUdcbHjQqOhr8ZpGjiFkm1TM9aN-TlX8Gwhm7qNLnlBwRqwRm3dWZ_OW6pPumfNmaHDYfHuMDJgxxpAcK9Qvd063n00JrpzCnBHP6PJm1JFzBzIOUSNubvmMPu1ThyAoLR-A011jKw_UgG97N5ik0Si8H8JZz0W3/s640/IMG_6505.jpg)

I'm clearly not going to buy it as the person trying to sell it to me has just called me stupid. I would have also been a bit concerned about the pages looking messy but I'm clearly too stupid to see the artistic vision.

Is it a moral obligation to be a bit of a dick? That seems more of a just being a bit of a dick choice.

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:47:41 PMI'm clearly not going to buy it as the person trying to sell it to me has just called me stupid. I would have also been a bit concerned about the pages looking messy but I'm clearly too stupid to see the artistic vision.

It's not for sale, dude.

Like: you can't buy it (unless you drop 1000$ which I didn't think you would)

Like the whole "Huff, you 've lost my 22.99$!!! " Doesn't work here, Karen. This isn't about money. I think that may be one reason it's so confusing.

QuoteIs it a moral obligation to be a bit of a dick? That seems more of a just being a bit of a dick choice.

No, it's a moral obligation to point out why you and anyone else reading) was served misinformation.

The folks who made the claim didn't read the text they were complaining about. Knowing that will help you evaluate their claims in the future if you're smart.(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjIMtZ2jM-ZDG6SerttnvOZpiQgetYsbwZEPe-5vifbJ9ikfnco59SUe8F6h-FAHyKsgsfJhyphenhyphenV1ii7UXSngBnKC8OA4FvG2zvSSV4zxcMCAluMhTiWnYGNrM7RsyBMXAnLAhsH9zeryc5uAQpzTfBXEQhshXSpJyaBrU5WlhALnFksXIHmazBeN-nu9CAsT/s640/IMG_6510.jpg)

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:21:31 PMI'm not feeling engaged by your marketing strategy of calling people stupid.

Intelligent people know we are intelligent. We feel no threat of being called stupid because we know it's not true. Someone who cannot recognise intelligence probably isn't.

That has nothing to do with the quality of a product. The photos of Zak's book look amazing and of course it makes people want a copy. Some people have paid $1000 for it already.

Most of us do not often come across a book which retails at $1000 and is actually selling at that price.

This deserves respect in and of itself regardless of any other factor.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 01:53:05 PM

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:47:41 PMI'm clearly not going to buy it as the person trying to sell it to me has just called me stupid. I would have also been a bit concerned about the pages looking messy but I'm clearly too stupid to see the artistic vision.

It's not for sale, dude.

Like: you can't buy it (unless you drop 1000$ which I didn't think you would)

Like the whole "Huff, you 've lost my 22.99$!!! " Doesn't work here, Karen. This isn't about money. I think that may be one reason it's so confusing.

QuoteIs it a moral obligation to be a bit of a dick? That seems more of a just being a bit of a dick choice.

No, it's a moral obligation to point out why you and anyone else reading) was served misinformation.

The folks who made the claim didn't read the text they were complaining about. Knowing that will help you evaluate their claims in the future if you're smart.(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjIMtZ2jM-ZDG6SerttnvOZpiQgetYsbwZEPe-5vifbJ9ikfnco59SUe8F6h-FAHyKsgsfJhyphenhyphenV1ii7UXSngBnKC8OA4FvG2zvSSV4zxcMCAluMhTiWnYGNrM7RsyBMXAnLAhsH9zeryc5uAQpzTfBXEQhshXSpJyaBrU5WlhALnFksXIHmazBeN-nu9CAsT/s640/IMG_6510.jpg)

There is no shame at all in admitting you went on misinformation. That is human faculty for error. People forgive those who accept accountability for their mistakes.

There is shame in being showed how it was misinformation when the misinformation is exposed and continuing to conduct your behaviour in error. To do so is ignorant.

It does technically prove a person to be stupid, regarding Zaks observation.

The problem is the person and people promoting misinformation knowingly. That enters into the situation of hate crime.

Apparently winning a defamation lawsuit means never having to re-evaluate why people don't like you.

Quote from: Corolinth on December 15, 2024, 02:44:48 PMApparently winning a defamation lawsuit means never having to re-evaluate why people don't like you.

Oh we all know that.

When someone lies and you point it out, they don't like it.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 02:30:35 PMThat has nothing to do with the quality of a product. The photos of Zak's book look amazing and of course it makes people want a copy. Some people have paid $1000 for it already.

Most of us do not often come across a book which retails at $1000 and is actually selling at that price.

This deserves respect in and of itself regardless of any other factor.

I actually hope you are a sock-puppet.  Because that would be a thousand times less cringy than your sycophantic posts.  I'm struggling to find anything in the pictures of his scribbles posted to this thread that would justify a dollar, much less a thousand.  And my time is worth way more than that.  I'm having a hard time taking your post seriously, honestly.  The entire corpus of TSR D&D originally sold for less than $1000 cumulatively...

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:08:34 PMWe get it, you're a right wing tool.

People who aren't won't agree with you, ever, so there's no use scolding them about it.

I find the idea that keeping your word or being fully transparent when giving out information is somehow a right wing value really bizarre.

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 12:48:15 PM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 12:05:06 PMRead the OP and you'll see it certainly looks shady and Pundit was right in bringing it to the light. 

I am critical of some of the professional things I've seen out of Zak.  He did them publicly and therefore we have a right to discuss them publicly.  I don't want to crucify him, I just want him to make appropriate changes, make amends, and behave better.

I have looked at some of his works and I do agree that he has talent.  I try to take all such things on their own merit. 

Indeed the OP was inevitable. It wasn't exactly hidden.
The warnings about "hostile" are just because there's a high risk of getting booted if you mention Zak.

To this forums credit, at least you guys are more tolerant of discussion.
Other places you will get hate mail if you so much as mention him.

There is a lot of different perspectives and opinions here; as long as you keep it on topic it's acceptable.  Zak has been a subscriber here for years without issue.

If Zak means "hostile" as "they might kick you." then he was absolutely wrong.  There are some here that are critical of him but no one trying to hurt him that I know of.

Quote from: Corolinth on December 15, 2024, 02:44:48 PMApparently winning a defamation lawsuit means never having to re-evaluate why people don't like you.

It's quite obvious he has. Proof of it is all over the forums. The people who don't like Zak state their reasons regularly.

The problem for everyone is those reasons have been proved to be that they have been manipulated by lies and fabrications, which have been debunked with actual evidence.

Those people seem unwilling or unable to look at the actual evidence. Instead, they are targeting Zak and anyone who speaks up for Zak. The hostility is destroying the D&D community.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 15, 2024, 02:55:27 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 02:30:35 PMThat has nothing to do with the quality of a product. The photos of Zak's book look amazing and of course it makes people want a copy. Some people have paid $1000 for it already.

Most of us do not often come across a book which retails at $1000 and is actually selling at that price.

This deserves respect in and of itself regardless of any other factor.

I actually hope you are a sock-puppet.  Because that would be a thousand times less cringy than your sycophantic posts.  I'm struggling to find anything in the pictures of his scribbles posted to this thread that would justify a dollar, much less a thousand.  And my time is worth way more than that.  I'm having a hard time taking your post seriously, honestly.  The entire corpus of TSR D&D originally sold for less than $1000 cumulatively...

You do not get to tell other people what they like or do not like. They get to tell you that. It is how it works. This is a normal boundary. Attacking those boundaries is sociopathic behaviour.

Also the economy has changed just a little bit since the 1970s, you might want to look into that.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 03:24:23 PMYou do not get to tell other people what they like or do not like. They get to tell you that. It is how it works. This is a normal boundary. Attacking those boundaries is sociopathic behaviour.

You're a shit sock. Fuck off already.

Honestly Zak, you, and everyone else with <100 posts in this thread should just be fucking banned.

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 03:20:47 PMThere are some here that are critical of him but no one trying to hurt him that I know of.

It's the lying and misinformation that's hostile.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but it sounds like I have to.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg6UD2Jwlin7oKYlV-vjdZrENSPJDyPfRZt6qgbTB4vkyGSyNQ25XDEp7h6rpT7VE16EKMx1kAWq93eDb6eqYsU_q3ciiFwmS-CAeAiotgPR3Kw_mqQukkXN8b_aF78UsmTM9QRlDW1u6V9gRieb_IRLC1edSO-ermD37t8bA2aHM5R6fVY7l4QSZsC2Vhl/s640/IMG_6503.jpg)

Post count has nothing to do with a person using their own mind to defend other people who also use their own minds, by asking for evidence, instead of being hostile.

Yes I am a new forum user.

There are trolls in here attacking new forum users. They are defined as trolls because of their antisocial behaviour.

With your high post count you represent this community. It now has a reputation for being full of angry hostile trolls. That's your bad.

It is damaging to the reputation of the D&D community which is damaging to the industry. Some people care about that.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 08:36:45 AMYou seem quite touchy and ready to lash out at anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with your thinking. I wonder why that is?

Because he's an obnoxious, narcissistic faggot.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 03:38:40 PMPost count has nothing to do with a person using their own mind to defend other people who also use their own minds, by asking for evidence, instead of being hostile.

Yes I am a new forum user.

There are trolls in here attacking new forum users. They are defined as trolls because of their antisocial behaviour.

With your high post count you represent this community. It now has a reputation for being full of angry hostile trolls. That's your bad.

It is damaging to the reputation of the D&D community which is damaging to the industry. Some people care about that.

So basically, all that nonsense is indeed 100% true and his butt-buddies have shown up here simply to get some free stuff. Lame.

QuoteIt is damaging to the reputation of the D&D community which is damaging to the industry. Some people care about that.

QuoteSo basically, all that nonsense is indeed 100% true and his butt-buddies have shown up here simply to get some free stuff. Lame.

1 add 1 = does not compute

Sooo... is this still about the book and getting the book? Because somehow it escalated to namecalling to explaining how someone who lost the court case actually won it because it's complicated you won't understand (what?), to claims that it is very bad to stop working for someone who behaves like le asshole (why?), to pointless statements that I wouldn't pay a thousand bucks for this and I spent my time looking at it and now I'll die young (that's very sad), and this is all confusing and make no SENSE.

Quote from: Brad on December 15, 2024, 03:46:21 PMBecause he's an obnoxious, narcissistic faggot.

So basically, all that nonsense is indeed 100% true and his butt-buddies have shown up here simply to get some free stuff. Lame.

I don't care if he's a hoboe, people give away free stuff all the time and you have to "like this post and leave a comment" or "recommend it to your friends". Thank Xiombarg people don't go crazy about it, well maybe they will now, I don't know anymore. My point is it's not a spooky conspiracy or even something new.
And people pay thousands of dollars for craziest stuff all the time, at least this is not an NFT or whatever it's called, it's a paper book and you can actually hold it.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 03:38:40 PMIt is damaging to the reputation of the D&D community which is damaging to the industry. Some people care about that.

I don't fucking care, and I want you to fuck off forever because it's obvious you're a godsdamned shill for a shit arrogant narcissist asshole whose work is best used for toilet paper.

Seriously. Go play in the street. Right now.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 09:55:23 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 15, 2024, 09:47:43 AMInteresting that GnosticGoblin joined this site right around the time that Zak suggested that others do exactly the same thing...

So the situation is that new people are coming to the site and members of the site are being hostile to them.
 
The stated reason for the hostility is because 'Zak exists.'

This site advertises itself as a place to discuss D&D and RPG related topics and products. The name of this site indicates that is its purpose.

That is its purpose. And you are allowed, within the appropriate bounds, to talk about any subject in RPGs, which in theory could include nothing but posts celebrating how much you like Zak's books. On here there's no problem with that. If Zak told you to come here and that's why you did, I don't care. As long as its clear he isn't just using you as a human sockpuppet, writing your posts for you, that's fine.

I don't think the problem here is "zak exists". I think for some people the perception is that Zak was trying to generate transactional enthusiasm, and at least one of the people he contacted with the offer was bothered by it being done behind the backs of the specific sites he mentioned, I guess.

I do find it weird, myself, particularly as I'm sure that some of his fans (maybe yourself) would have assisted him anyways without all of what he wrote, in a natural way. Like my fans often do, ever moreso as the grip of wokism starts to choke on its own cancel-culture bile.

But I don't think that problem is "Zak exists"... unless what you mean is something like "Zak can't stop himself from doing things like this instead of just acting normal".

And this thread is the sort of "elevated conversation" Zak and his sycophants bring to the discussion of RPGs and then seem incapable of comprehending why none of the people they call idiots and garbage and trolls want to engage with them in a friendly way.

I look forward to whenever they hit their post count for unlocking their free goodies and can then go trundling off, never to be heard from again.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 04:36:35 PMAnd this thread is the sort of "elevated conversation" Zak and his sycophants bring to the discussion of RPGs and then seem incapable of comprehending why none of the people they call idiots and garbage and trolls want to engage with them in a friendly way.

At no point have I ever claimed I don't understand why people who post misinformation don't like it when you point it out.

It's still an obligation to point it out.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:50:56 AM..and one factor contributing to Macris shrugging off giving up on our deal at the time that you know nothing about is that Macris knew he had broken previous agreements and guarantees repeatedly before that by, among other things, refusing to pay on time more than once.

Was that Alex Macris? Because it seems a bit weird he'd be paying you himself... or do you mean Defy Media, who owned the Escapist?

I worked for Defy writing articles for many years, and it was always Defy, not Alex himself, who paid me. And always on time, but I guess you could  have had some weird specific deal with Alex...

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 11:54:38 AMIncidentally, I also appreciate Pundits work, Cults of Chaos sits on the shelf behind me.

Thank you!

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:42:11 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:50:56 AM..and one factor contributing to Macris shrugging off giving up on our deal at the time that you know nothing about is that Macris knew he had broken previous agreements and guarantees repeatedly before that by, among other things, refusing to pay on time more than once.

Was that Alex Macris? Because it seems a bit weird he'd be paying you himself... or do you mean Defy Media, who owned the Escapist?

I worked for Defy writing articles for many years, and it was always Defy, not Alex himself, who paid me. And always on time, but I guess you could  have had some weird specific deal with Alex...

Alex and I negotiated a deal through which I got paid. I don't know whether the entity paying was technically Alex or technically Defy or what the exact financial connection was between them--only that Alex appeared to be entirely responsible for all the decisions resulting in me getting paid by whatever entity was paying and all other ultimate decisions when I worked with that company.

When I was getting paid late, I called Alex and Alex was the only contact I had about getting paid late. Alex was also the only entity I had contact with about leaving.(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEitYVbxR1yvclEsHkVi1-j9ch_u2aZa7xs-MI3fOV6FkdCP9tBtXFt1TE77zgBmOrik1V5LiLn90FKeLAgFJoqgbcKspi2mUxx9Ah-fXjxrR0RbJ1WnWsvZEwj_GRY7YZwVUBtlIygCUkWx93VE367PpaAnCrPopb1Y0_UKenS9sOWsVLu5_0r7Rp2hi8iA/s640/IMG_6512.jpg)

Quote from: Riquez on December 15, 2024, 12:48:15 PM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 12:05:06 PMRead the OP and you'll see it certainly looks shady and Pundit was right in bringing it to the light. 

I am critical of some of the professional things I've seen out of Zak.  He did them publicly and therefore we have a right to discuss them publicly.  I don't want to crucify him, I just want him to make appropriate changes, make amends, and behave better.

I have looked at some of his works and I do agree that he has talent.  I try to take all such things on their own merit. 

Indeed the OP was inevitable. It wasn't exactly hidden.
The warnings about "hostile" are just because there's a high risk of getting booted if you mention Zak.

To this forums credit, at least you guys are more tolerant of discussion.
Other places you will get hate mail if you so much as mention him.

Since Zak is so precise about his language, I'm sure that could NOT have been his definition of "hostile", because there is pretty close to ZERO risk of someone getting booted here for mentioning Zak.

So clearly that's not what he meant by hostile.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

These two:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b78d8ccbce2844cf179abcb9e1382523/1f1fea679ddbe025-69/s1280x1920/a0d11b6d4c21b290287a04bab98a57ea96928ab6.png)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ebb9c199113551415265a1e3fbebe24c/1f1fea679ddbe025-9f/s1280x1920/a3fbc246e230e98cda5e5172863c79c177279dea.png)

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PMWho said that?

Okay, you're gonna laugh but I think it was you.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 13, 2024, 05:29:52 PMAnd sadly, from here on people who post nice things about your work will be under the shadow of doubt as to whether they're just doing it for merch.

Which, again, I think is nothing new, people have been doing stuff like that for years.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PMThese two:

You are such a godsdamned illiterate shitbag.

Pundit didn't fucking claim that you said people had to say nice things about whatever work you shit out, you fucking buffoon. He was pointing out that by engaging in this kind of idiocy, people are going to assume that whenever someone says something positive about your shit they're doing it because they're sucking up to you and want free shit.

Can you please for the love of fuck go be retarded somewhere else?

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 15, 2024, 05:04:10 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PMThese two:

You are such a godsdamned illiterate faggot.

Pundit didn't fucking claim that you said people had to say nice things about whatever work you shit out, you fucking buffoon. He was pointing out that by engaging in this kind of idiocy, people are going to assume that whenever someone says something positive about your shit they're doing it because they're sucking up to you and want free shit.

As the text contains no transaction re: the exchange of "saying nice things" for "free shit" that is inaccurate and Pundit was negligent at best.

Plus that's clearly how people construed what he said.

Plus he used the word "brigading" which is inaccurate. Joining a website (whether you are urged to or not) and posting whatever you want on whatever topic is not brigading.

There's no way to escape the misinformation issue here.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 15, 2024, 05:04:10 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PMThese two:

You are such a godsdamned illiterate shitbag.

Pundit didn't fucking claim that you said people had to say nice things about whatever work you shit out, you fucking buffoon. He was pointing out that by engaging in this kind of idiocy, people are going to assume that whenever someone says something positive about your shit they're doing it because they're sucking up to you and want free shit.

Can you please for the love of fuck go be retarded somewhere else?

Could you please rewrite that in a way that makes sense?

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:12:32 PMCould you please rewrite that in a way that makes sense?

Didn't I tell you to go play in traffic? Get on that.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

These two:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b78d8ccbce2844cf179abcb9e1382523/1f1fea679ddbe025-69/s1280x1920/a0d11b6d4c21b290287a04bab98a57ea96928ab6.png)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ebb9c199113551415265a1e3fbebe24c/1f1fea679ddbe025-9f/s1280x1920/a3fbc246e230e98cda5e5172863c79c177279dea.png)

Are you getting more imprecise with your super precise totally objective such-an-intellectual definition of words in your old age, Zak?

Because it is very clear that I did not say what you claim. I did not say that "people who want the book have to say nice things about you or the work".

What I said was that people who now say nice things will be under a shadow of doubt by others as to whether they are doing it under compulsion of some offer.

Those are not the same thing. In the case of what you said you're implying I stated "Zak S is  demanding that people say nice things about him to get merch". That is objectively untrue.

What I was in fact stating was that "because Zak S wrote a secret and highly detailed list of instructions to people to join and start posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile"), and that sometime before january 8th they would all receive a NEWS UPDATE AND ZAK NEWS UPDATE, and he then ordered said people to make comments, and may get asked to write "further helpful comments" in any situation where there's news about him, NORMAL PEOPLE may interpret all that as meaning that this is directed astroturf support in exchange for a book."

Of course, that's only one thing they might interpret. As the term "brigading" implies, some people might imagine it would imply something far worse than just a cheering section.

Of course it needn't necessarily be anything like that. You might just be intending it as, like, a really elaborate really micromanaged version of when I write "Spread the word, share the video" as a reply to fans of my youtube videos, but with the added helpful details of where, how and what they should post and how soon, and with the promise of receiving a $1000 book if they follow instructions precisely. Nothing weird about that at all...

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:14:05 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

These two:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b78d8ccbce2844cf179abcb9e1382523/1f1fea679ddbe025-69/s1280x1920/a0d11b6d4c21b290287a04bab98a57ea96928ab6.png)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ebb9c199113551415265a1e3fbebe24c/1f1fea679ddbe025-9f/s1280x1920/a3fbc246e230e98cda5e5172863c79c177279dea.png)

Are you getting more imprecise with your super precise totally objective such-an-intellectual definition of words in your old age, Zak?

Because it is very clear that I did not say what you claim. I did not say that "people who want the book have to say nice things about you or the work".

What I said was that people who now say nice things will be under a shadow of doubt by others as to whether they are doing it under compulsion of some offer.

Those are not the same thing. In the case of what you said you're implying I stated "Zak S is  demanding that people say nice things about him to get merch". That is objectively untrue.

What I was in fact stating was that "because Zak S wrote a secret and highly detailed list of instructions to people to join and start posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile"), and that sometime before january 8th they would all receive a NEWS UPDATE AND ZAK NEWS UPDATE, and he then ordered said people to make comments, and may get asked to write "further helpful comments" in any situation where there's news about him, NORMAL PEOPLE may interpret all that as meaning that this is directed astroturf support in exchange for a book."

Of course, that's only one thing they might interpret. As the term "brigading" implies, some people might imagine it would imply something far worse than just a cheering section.

Of course it needn't necessarily be anything like that. You might just be intending it as, like, a really elaborate really micromanaged version of when I write "Spread the word, share the video" as a reply to fans of my youtube videos, but with the added helpful details of where, how and what they should post and how soon, and with the promise of receiving a $1000 book if they follow instructions precisely. Nothing weird about that at all...

If this is what you are claiming your post meant then this is what you are claiming your post meant.

My claim about what your post meant is different.

That seems kinda upside down, it's not a $1000 book (I don't know what a $1000 book should be like - sing you to sleep when you're sad? Do your taxes for you? Drive your car?), it's a free book, and some people are willing to pay 1000 bucks to get it. Maybe weird, yeah, but it's their money, there are worse ways to spend a thousand I guess

Editing

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 15, 2024, 05:04:10 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PMThese two:

You are such a godsdamned illiterate faggot.

Pundit didn't fucking claim that you said people had to say nice things about whatever work you shit out, you fucking buffoon. He was pointing out that by engaging in this kind of idiocy, people are going to assume that whenever someone says something positive about your shit they're doing it because they're sucking up to you and want free shit.

As the text contains no transaction re: the exchange of "saying nice things" for "free shit" that is inaccurate and Pundit was negligent at best.

Plus that's clearly how people construed what he said.

Plus he used the word "brigading" which is inaccurate. Joining a website (whether you are urged to or not) and posting whatever you want on whatever topic is not brigading.

There's no way to escape the misinformation issue here.

First, these are LITERALLY instructions you sent to a list of people who wanted to get your game book for free, instead of paying $1000 dollars for the book.
If they do not follow every point (or explain why they can't, and then do some alternative thing for you), they will not get the book.

You are literally giving them precise instructions that they must follow to get the book.

As far as saying nice things about you or your products, that would be pretty much assumed because it would be really weird if you asked your fans who want to get your $1000 book for free to please publicly accuse you of crimes on your news threads. Its a natural presumption that being your fans, they will post nice things.

The problem is that now anytime anyone says nice things, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR REAL INTENTIONS WERE (I mean who knows, maybe you wanted your fans to accuse you of have sexual relations with livestock, but I do kind of figure it's more probable you wanted them to either say nice things about you and your books, or to argue with your critics), people will wonder if this was just their own instinct of support for you, or if it was because they're big fans and have a chance to get a $1000 book for free (unless they want to cover shipping for you).


SECOND: The word "brigading", at the top of the original post, was not my word. It was a word from the person who sent me this. Someone you tried to give these instructions to took it as being a call for brigading. He used that word. Someone you figured was a fan of yours who would help you by saying stuff (maybe nice stuff for/about you, maybe horrible stuff against/about you, I'm sure you'll claim its impossible to know whether you'd ask your fans to say you're a great designer or would instead ask them to post the claim that you frequently mock mothers whose babies died of crib death). One of those people took it to be about brigading.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designating hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

Quote from: Xaxus on December 15, 2024, 05:20:54 PMThat seems kinda upside down, it's not a $1000 book (I don't know what a $1000 book should be like - sing you to sleep when you're sad? Do your taxes for you? Drive your car?), it's a free book, and some people are willing to pay 1000 bucks to get it. Maybe weird, yeah, but it's their money, there are worse ways to spend a thousand I guess

A FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

WORK, which is what you are doing by following his instructions, is a form of cost. You are paying him either $1000 in money, or (depending on the real value of your time) probably considerably less than that in WORK FOR HIM, by FOLLOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS.
If you do not follow his instructions, he will not give you the book.

So NO, it is not a free book.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:27:26 PMYou are literally giving them precise instructions that they must follow to get the book.

Yes, as does nearly any entity that distributes books. "Enter your credit card number here" etc.

QuoteAs far as saying nice things about you or your products, that would be pretty much assumed because it would be really weird if you asked your fans who want to get your $1000 book

Excluded middle fallacy:

Someone could simply post things like "Is anyone else playing Shadowrun" and fulfill the requirement.

QuoteREGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR REAL INTENTIONS WERE ...people will wonder

Yes I am not asking for your PR advice, I am just pointing out that this thread contains misinformation.

QuoteThe word "brigading", at the top of the original post, was not my word. It was a word from the person who sent me this.

Which you reproduced.

At any rate the important thing is:

You grasp and are communicating that you know it isn't brigading and you grasp and are communicating that I didn't ask anyone to say nice things about me or my workin exchange for anything.

Thank you so much for clarifying that.

If it ever comes up in the future, we know that you've clarified it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:29:18 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designing hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

To answer your question, Pundit.
I do not know how Zak defines 'hostile'.
I know how I define it and I am fairly certain it's similar to how Zak defines it.
I came to this site.
People have been hostile to me.
Zak has described this site as hostile.
Zaks description matches my experiences.
There are people in here who have insulted and attacked me.
It's not only that they don't like Zak.
It's that they are hostile.
They do not even know me as I am new here.
So it's not personal.
I have yes acknowledged that Zak has posted items I agree with.
This is why they are hostile toward me.
They could have ignored other people who believe in community building or who respect quality products.
They didn't.
They were hostile.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:29:18 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designating hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

As I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

By that metric, basically nothing anyone has to ask for is free. "Buy one get one free" things aren't "free" in this alien version of English you just concocted, nor are "Free if you stop by on Sundays" things, for example.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

WORK, which is what you are doing by following his instructions, is a form of cost. You are paying him either $1000 in money, or (depending on the real value of your time) probably considerably less than that in WORK FOR HIM, by FOLLOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS.
If you do not follow his instructions, he will not give you the book.

So NO, it is not a free book.

Okay, I see your point, a giveaway book then, that's probably more accurate

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Which is why there is a need for people to question the misinformation.

To prevent people from acting on misinformation.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:34:57 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:27:26 PMYou are literally giving them precise instructions that they must follow to get the book.

Yes, as does nearly any entity that distributes books. "Enter your credit card number here" etc.

QuoteAs far as saying nice things about you or your products, that would be pretty much assumed because it would be really weird if you asked your fans who want to get your $1000 book

Excluded middle fallacy:

Someone could simply post things like "Is anyone else playing Shadowrun" and fulfill the requirement.

QuoteREGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR REAL INTENTIONS WERE ...people will wonder

Yes I am not asking for your PR advice, I am just pointing out that this thread contains misinformation.

QuoteThe word "brigading", at the top of the original post, was not my word. It was a word from the person who sent me this.

Which you reproduced.

At any rate the important thing is:

You grasp and are communicating that you know it isn't brigading and you grasp and are communicating that I didn't ask anyone to say nice things about me or my workin exchange for anything.

Thank you so much for clarifying that.

If it ever comes up in the future, we know that you've clarified it.

Let me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out. I do suspect it is not "brigading" in the sense of a concerted attack against another person, and I suspect the anonymous person who sent me this email may have really meant something like "astroturfing" more than "brigading". But then again, I don't know if that OP, who obviously was someone who received this message from you, had also potentially received other messages from me. For the record I have had no conversation with this person apart from them sending me the message above, which I reposted in total. You have here suggested that it was not for the purpose of brigading, and I have no reason in particular to doubt that.

Again, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book, but I predicted that people would be apt to think that future nice posts about you might be related to this exchange, because you wrote an email giving people precise instructions of precise websites they should join and how many posts and or comments to make on them and when (or at least, by what time period). I have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:53:54 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 04:47:22 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Who said that?

These two:

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/b78d8ccbce2844cf179abcb9e1382523/1f1fea679ddbe025-69/s1280x1920/a0d11b6d4c21b290287a04bab98a57ea96928ab6.png)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/ebb9c199113551415265a1e3fbebe24c/1f1fea679ddbe025-9f/s1280x1920/a3fbc246e230e98cda5e5172863c79c177279dea.png)

Well, since you are so into correcting misinformation, please identify where I claimed that you were the person about who nice things must be said?  I never mentioned you in that post.  You might have assumed I was talking about you specifically (perhaps a guilty conscience?), but that was never stated in my post anywhere.  You have accused me of false claims without any direct textual evidence at all.  I stand by my statement, and will expand on it, "Anyone who must bribe others to say nice things about them is pathetic."  I leave it to you to decide if that applies to you.  And I await your correction of your misinformation that I said anything about you specifically in that quoted text.

I have directly said that your sycophants on this thread are pathetic.  And I stand by that, too.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:43:13 PMLet me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out.

The text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

QuoteAgain, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book

This is your caim about the meaning of your statement. My claim is different.

{quote]I have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.
[/quote]

You're assuming the risk bothers me.

Literally any time I do anything that works out in the RPG sphere I get attacked due to the whole situaiton described here: https://archive.is/0Nv3c .

Of course I saw that risk. I chose to take it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:43:13 PMLet me clarify again: I do not "know it isn't brigading", because in the original message you DO NOT STATE what further comments you will want people to post when your "ZAK NEWS UPDATE" comes out.

The text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

QuoteAgain, I did not say at any point that you told people to say nice things about you in exchange for this $1000 book

This is your caim about the meaning of your statement. My claim is different.

QuoteI have to wonder how you would not have seen the potential risk of that.

You're assuming the risk bothers me.

Literally any time I do anything that works out in the RPG sphere I get attacked due to the whole situation described here: https://archive.is/0Nv3c .

Of course I saw that risk. I chose to take it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:29:18 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designating hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

As I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

People can post what they want within the boundaries of legality, and the very basic rules created here. TheRPGsite is a platform not a publisher. theRPGsite is not responsible for the statement of any individual who posts on here. This website is explicitly presented as a free-speech site.

If you find someone is posting off-topic, or you think someone's actions amount to harassing you (repeatedly going to threads where you post and making low or no-content insults or abuse), or if they dox you in any way, you can definitely report it to me (a DM is probably the best way to do that) and if I feel it reaches those standards I'll adjudicate it.

However, I find that perhaps your notions of what constitutes "misinformation" is becoming as fuzzy as it is for many leftists, amounting to "they were mean to me" or "they said something I didn't like". Like, for example, pointing out that people are going to take the details of your little plan and think the worst of it is NOT "misinformation", it was in fact a prediction that almost immediately became true.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

As far as posting nice things about Zak is concerned.

I saw his art. It is amazing. This is irrefutable. Saatchi also agree.
I read some of his books. They also are amazing. The industry awarded him. They also agree.

I read a lot of his arguments online through several years. To summarise, about how the problem with the online d&d community is trolls, misinformation and defamation.
I respect that because it is righteous. I respect him for doing it.
I was disgusted how many people did not ask to see evidence before hating on Zak.
As it happened the court saw the evidence and backed Zak.
I looked into that to find out it is true.
This is not sycophantic.
This is respect for someone who has been through so much difficult crap for the purpose of establishing a voice of reason in the community for a game we all love.
I am not writing this and defending Zak for a copy of his book. Awesome though it does look.
I am doing this because of respect for those who are doing amazing and positive things with their lives and for the d&d community, despite the ignorance, jealousy and anger all around.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:37:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

By that metric, basically nothing anyone has to ask for is free. "Buy one get one free" things aren't "free" in this alien version of English you just concocted, nor are "Free if you stop by on Sundays" things, for example.

It's called capitalism. "Buy one get one free" is not free. You don't get the free one without paying for the first one, meaning that what you're actually getting is two items at half-price.
"Free on Sundays" could theoretically be actually free, in the sense that it requires no work FOR you, but if you said "free on Sundays if you join 10 websites and write several posts and then later react to something I wrote" is work.

Just like if someone said "we'll give you this timeshare FOR FREE if you find three other people and get them to sign up", you're not actually getting something for free, they've gotten you to work as a salesman for them in exchange for a timeshare slot instead of cash.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:54:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

This forum has rules which are not being enforced. The trolls are allowed to do it hate crimes here even in breach of the T&C

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Misinformation (along with Dis- and Mal-) is a bullshit leftist term invented by people who couldn't actually defend their actual positions so they just label what they can't actually argue against to try and keep people from seeing it.

You want accountability for what someone else said, then do it your damn self by posting something that contradicts the statements. If you can't defend your own ideas, then your ideas are most likely crap (or you're bad at communicating, but if they are good ideas then someone else will pick up the ball and run with it).

You're just a pack of censorious jerks who can't even defend their own positions so wants someone to use their authority to shut up anyone who points out the holes in your positions.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:56:07 PMThis forum has rules which are not being enforced. The trolls are allowed to do it hate crimes here even in breach of the T&C

Please show us in the forum rules where the bad posts touched you.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:37:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:31:14 PMA FREE book would imply that Zak will give it to anyone, anywhere, without conditions.

By that metric, basically nothing anyone has to ask for is free. "Buy one get one free" things aren't "free" in this alien version of English you just concocted, nor are "Free if you stop by on Sundays" things, for example.

It's called capitalism. "Buy one get one free" is not free. You don't get the free one without paying for the first one, meaning that what you're actually getting is two items at half-price.
"Free on Sundays" could theoretically be actually free, in the sense that it requires no work FOR you, but if you said "free on Sundays if you join 10 websites and write several posts and then later react to something I wrote" is work.

Just like if someone said "we'll give you this timeshare FOR FREE if you find three other people and get them to sign up", you're not actually getting something for free, they've gotten you to work as a salesman for them in exchange for a timeshare slot instead of cash.

Great, then start a thread about how the supermarket is lying to you.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:41:00 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:39:40 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PMAs I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

Yes absolutely this

Which is why there is a need for people to question the misinformation.

To prevent people from acting on misinformation.

We strongly encourage debate here. If you think people are misrepresenting Zak you are welcome to say it. If Zak had 100 fans who wanted to be on theRPGsite and respond to things they thought were false or unfair about Zak there would be no problem with that. I'd hope they'd post on other subjects while they were around but even if they didn't want to, that's still not in violation of the rules, as long as they aren't sockpuppets (literal, as in it's just Zak with 100 accounts, or virtual, as in 'astroturfed' statements written by zak but posted by someone else, WITHOUT being attributed to Zak as his words and not your own). As long as its neither of those things, and its topical to the discussion thread (no showing up out of nowhere on a totally unrelated thread to post about how someone somewhere was mean to Zak), you won't have a problem here.

That's about a million times more fair than places like RPGnet. Its the open town square of debate.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:54:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

It's almost impossible for any moderator to get it right all the time, but on theRPGsite there are pretty clear rules about what you can or can't do. If someone posts pornography they're banned, if they post copyrighted material or links to download copyrighted material they're banned. If they repeatedly intentionally derail threads as a hostile action they're banned. If they reveal private information with hostile intent against another user they're banned. If they repeatedly follow you around to every thread you post on just for the purpose of attacking you, with the result that they derail the topic of the thread, they would probably be sanctioned, and if they violated the terms of that sanction (for example "do not post on this thread again", or "do not post on any thread started by Zak") they would be banned.
If they just insult you, or disagree with you, or interpret something differently than you, they probably won't be banned.

You can even make a post that explicitly states in the title that you only want positive statements, if you're talking about an RPG product. Of course someone else could then open another thread where they could talk about negative statements about the same RPG product.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:56:07 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:54:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:50:44 PMfeel

This word renders all of your assurances about misinformation and harassment irrelevant.

Instead of clear standards and rules you just have "How the moderator feels about it". That always creates a hostile environment in any large forum.

This forum has rules which are not being enforced. The trolls are allowed to do it hate crimes here even in breach of the T&C

If you feel there's a specific rule being breached you can DM me about it. Obviously people stating mere opinions on this thread in particular about the mailing Zak admits to have written would not necessarily constitute a breach of rules, much less a 'hate crime'.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 06:11:19 PMIf they repeatedly intentionally derail threads as a hostile action

Vague.

QuoteIf they repeatedly follow you around to every thread you post on just for the purpose of attacking you, with the result that they derail the topic of the thread, they would probably be sanctioned, and if they violated the terms of that sanction (for example "do not post on this thread again", or "do not post on any thread started by Zak") they would be banned...If they just insult you...probably

Again, vague. The line insulting-therefore-derail and insulting-but-not-derail is not defined. And you have the word "probably".

Basically, this is just another way of stating that there are no clear rules and its a judgment call.

And none of this has to do with misinformation, the biggest problem.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 06:18:50 PMAnd none of this has to do with misinformation, the biggest problem.

The best way to solve this problem is to not be part of it yourself.  So, stop misinforming people as to what my post said.  Which I note you haven't corrected, so you must be comfortable with inaccuracies when they are committed by you...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 15, 2024, 06:38:14 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 06:18:50 PMAnd none of this has to do with misinformation, the biggest problem.

The best way to solve this problem is to not be part of it yourself.  So, stop misinforming people as to what my post said.  Which I note you haven't corrected, so you must be comfortable with inaccuracies when they are committed by you...

We disagree about the content of your post.

Well, this thread is a right mess of a situation.

Zak, I have comments.

First, this is not actually going to help you. Your best move is that you can play the "negative attention is actually good attention" game all day long knowing that the more people turn shrill trying to deplatform you, the more they do the work of putting your content out there for you. Community terraforming like this actually puts you in a worse situation because it stands to delete your negative attention free marketing system.

Second, you made a tactical error on how you go about community terraforming. You pick one subcommunity and you make a protracted effort to change opinions there. And then you move on to a different one. This process takes months per community because you need to nudge rather than push. Putting a bunch of posts or comments on all these different communities spreads your efforts too thin and it becomes a flash in the pan everywhere which people will collectively ignore. You divided your forces too thinly and didn't give it enough time to work, anyways.

Finally, $1000 for one book? Well, at least your book prices are somewhere close to authentically medieval. I can only conclude that this is an attempt to make it a rare and exotic collectible. I don't think that will work, but you're welcome to try.

I repeat again, for emphasis, absolute masterstroke.

As a helpful suggestion, whenever the subject of 'proof' or 'misinformation' comes up, as it is wont to do in these types of threads, it might be fruitful to ask one's fellow participant to explicitly mention what conditions this proof should conform to in order for it to be accepted, and what actions they will take if said proof is then provided. In case of misinformation both parties must agree on a method to determine whether misinformation has occured before before any meaningful communication can occur. This is assuming one is an adherent of the theory that both participants are seeking to further mutual understanding and are open to changing their minds, which is admittedly hard to credit in this case. 

On the subject of the reliability of commentators, it should be noted that on this forum, the only person who can be said to have legally made false claims is Zak himself. I refer you to page 37 and 38 of the relevant court case. (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0) where no less then 11 statements made on Zaks 2019 facebook post were found to be false. But he won the case! is the usual deflection. The one does not preclude the other, as the facebook statements can be found false, yet still not constitute defamation, nor does their accuracy have any bearing on the truth of the accusations levelled against Zak. 

Quote from: Fheredin on December 15, 2024, 07:05:15 PMFirst, this is not actually going to help you.

It has already helped me. Since I have seen what happens when a thread starts with misinformation and I do not intervene and fix it, I know very well that this thread (like all theRPGsite threads about me) features lots of RPGSite regulars complaining but ultimately turns out much better than the equivalent in a place where I do not intervene--in which case the lies simply compound and become increasingly fanciful.

In my experience, RPGSite people mistake the unpleasant sensation of:
-seeing words on a thread they opened be about something they don't care about and filling the thread with posts expressing that-
with
-an outcome counter to the one any given person in the thread intended

QuoteCommunity terraforming like this actually puts you in a worse situation because it stands to delete your negative attention free marketing system.

Yes I know this silly "all attention is good attention" theory and it only works when the goal is money or cultivating a right-wing contrarian audience, neither of which are my goal.

The community that I worked to put together has already produced excellent results ( a crowdsourced dungeon for instance)

QuoteFinally, $1000 for one book? Well, at least your book prices are somewhere close to authentically medieval. I can only conclude that this is an attempt to make it a rare and exotic collectible. I don't think that will work, but you're welcome to try.

Again, this has already worked: nine people have already paid this price.

---

In general, when seized with the urge to give someone else advice, the best policy is to ask questions first, not assume every condition invisible to you is the one necessary to make your advice accurate. (This advice I just gave assumes you want your advice to be useful, which, I know, is a big assumption. Sorry if you didn't want it to be,)

re:
Eirikrautha's post below--
As I already said, we disagree about what their post on pg 1 means.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 07:01:45 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 15, 2024, 06:38:14 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 06:18:50 PMAnd none of this has to do with misinformation, the biggest problem.

The best way to solve this problem is to not be part of it yourself.  So, stop misinforming people as to what my post said.  Which I note you haven't corrected, so you must be comfortable with inaccuracies when they are committed by you...

We disagree about the content of your post.

No, you are misrepresenting the content of my post, because you made an error (and are apparently incapable of admitting so).  You were not mentioned in my post.  This is not an "interpretation;" it is a fact.  This dissembling on your part invalidates your entire stated purpose here of "correcting misinformation," since you are unwilling to admit when you have been the purveyor of it.

Physician, heal thyself.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 15, 2024, 07:10:11 PMI repeat again, for emphasis, absolute masterstroke.

Yawn.
You keep quoting a case that Zak won, and insist that it somehow proves that he is a harasser. That's not how it works. There's the court decision that Viv couldn't bear the burden of proof or whatever it's worded legally, so she loses the case. Also there are videos of Viv herself admitting that she lied in those claims that you keep waving around.
Poor unfortunate troll.

I am just waiting for a new discussion thread titled

"The best place to talk about Zak"

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 04:49:19 PM..and one factor contributing to Macris shrugging off giving up on our deal at the time that you know nothing about is that Macris knew he had broken previous agreements and guarantees repeatedly before that by, among other things, refusing to pay on time more than once.

Alex and I negotiated a deal through which I got paid. I don't know whether the entity paying was technically Alex or technically Defy or what the exact financial connection was between them--only that Alex appeared to be entirely responsible for all the decisions resulting in me getting paid by whatever entity was paying and all other ultimate decisions when I worked with that company.

When I was getting paid late, I called Alex and Alex was the only contact I had about getting paid late. Alex was also the only entity I had contact with about leaving.

Pundit, you had the good fortune to work with me after I was SVP of Defy Media and had a large well-funded division under my control. Everyjoe.com was always in the black, so you never saw the nightmarish near-insolvency of The Escapist.

Zak developed I Hit It With My Axe for The Escapist prior to our sale of the company to Defy Media. At that time, The Escapist was majority owned by an investment fund called EFP. I had at one time held a controlling share but in the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2008 I had raised funds under bad terms and no longer had full control, though I remained in charge of day-to-day operations. As such I was Zak's go-to for business affairs.

During that period -- the last years of our independent existence -- our financial situation degenerated as game journalism entered the death spiral that led to Gamergate. EPF refused to recapitalize us again; instead it would just make short-term loans to us whenever I managed to plead with sufficient desperation. Even when I did successfully make the case, EPF didn't necessarily see funding us as their top priority, and it would be delayed for days and sometimes weeks. On several occasions my CFO and I were forced to pay for critical functions out of our own pockets. And so The Escapist began paying all of its vendors late. All of them got paid... but always late. Eventually we just suspended many of our shows, I Hit It With My Axe among them. (The difficult we were facing as an independent media outlet during an era of consolidation is essentially what drove the sale of The Escapist to Defy Media.)

Zak is therefore being both honest and accurate when he asserts that he was being paid late during that time period. Of course, it wasn't personal to him; the opposite is true. When I could, I expedited payment to him in preference to corporate vendors because I had sympathy for the situation he found himself in as a full-time caregiver to his wife. (After some early friction Zak and I eventually developed a positive working relationship because we were both caring for chronically ill women with similar health conditions.)

The incident that led to Zak and I severing our business relationship occurred much later, after Defy Media had acquired The Escapist and injected it with new cash. As soon as we had funds, I immediately reached out to my favorite creators to "put the band back together;" one of those was Zak, to do another season of I Hit It With My Axe. He agreed but requested to be paid in advance for the season because of how bad things had gotten the last time. That seemed reasonable to me, so that's what we did. Our working relationship collapsed a few months after that. He'd already been paid but we hadn't yet launched the show. (Before anyone asks, no, I don't think that this was timed by him as part of some nefarious scheme to screw me over.)
 

As someone who asked Zak for a copy of the instructions (and received them) I never took any of it as a directive to shill for him anywhere, aside from the request to retweet some of his images, and even that I wouldn't really consider 'shilling' in the traditional sense. I get how someone could think it's implied though. Even then, in several of those places, you can't discuss Zak's work or those from several other creators at all, so shilling for him would be pretty difficult to do. To add to that, Zak iirc, posted some clarification around the time he started this in the LotFP facebook group about his intent, which was indeed to push collaboration and interaction in the community.

I don't have the time in my life right now (and I don't have $1000) to do what Zak has requested, so I'm going to miss out on the book, which to be fair, looks pretty great. I've always found Zak's work to be highly interesting, so that sucks for me, I guess. Having said that, I get why people don't always get along with him on a personal level. He and I probably would disagree on a lot of things and it's unlikely we'd get along in real life, but I find him to be an interesting person (I like interesting people) and his work is a net positive to the community.

I guess this is a bunch of words, but my overall point here is that I didn't see anything nefarious on Zak's part in doing this. YMMV.

I have a question for Zak.
Why did so many people try to destroy you in the wake of the Mandy claims?

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMEvery time there's a conspiracy theory

I mean it's a bunch of almost-socks you want to incentivize, and you're not just targeting some big corporations, but also some normal sites like this one.

Quoteparticipate in building RPG community that isn't all psychotic trash people.

Why are you always so wacky?  You know you could just build a forum or a subreddit or a discord and people would come and hang out.  Why this scheme?

QuoteIf you actually read the instructions there's nothing suggesting anyone say anything nice about me or praise the work

"The instructions were to create the infovirus, but I didn't say when and where to release it.... yet..."

QuoteYou guys made that up because I guess you're complete morons.

I mean come on, it's reasonable to be concerned that it would be the next step, right?


Look I get that there's a list of Banned People on /r/ttrpg, /r/osr, and many related subreddits, all with the same tool moderators.  I think everyone understands that, and plenty of people don't like it.  In fact, for like four years, you were the ONLY Banned Person.  It was literally the Zak S rule.  But you HAVE to know that these shenanigans are at least a little bit eyeroll, I'm sure.

Whatever, Zak S content is always top tier.  This thread is pretty fun, so was the thread where you made that guy apologize to you and Pundit pinned it.  I guess from a plebeian perspective, I have no complaints, as I am, in fact, entertained.

First, he lives a perverted promiscuous lifestyle.

Next, he writes shitty rpgs.

Then, he goes on to sue people when they hurt his feelings.

And most recently, he brigades out across discussion forums.

Dear Lord, will the lameness never cease? It's just fucking embarrassing. He should just go clean public toilets, make an honest living doing necessary work, take his pay and use it to settle down with a good woman and build a frugal but decent life together, and stop embarrassing himself.

He must not have been beaten enough as a child. 

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 15, 2024, 10:43:16 PMI have a question for Zak.
Why did so many people try to destroy you in the wake of the Mandy claims?

Ask Neil Gaiman, Kehinde Wiley and Ed Piskor.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 16, 2024, 01:06:30 AMHe must not have been beaten enough as a child. 

Maybe not, but as an adult, by all appearances, he is losing teeth at an alarming rate.  Scurvy?  Maybe he's like a GW ork -- or is it orruk these days -- and thinks to use teeth as money.  Do attorneys in America accept teeth as payment for services rendered?

This plan of his seems like an inefficient way to bring about any sort of change in the usual content on the social media platforms mentioned. 

Quote from: Venka on December 15, 2024, 11:45:08 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 14, 2024, 07:13:51 AMEvery time there's a conspiracy theory

I mean it's a bunch of almost-socks you want to incentivize, and you're not just targeting some big corporations, but also some normal sites like this one.

"Targeting?"

Participating.

QuoteWhy are you always so wacky?  You know you could just build a forum or a subreddit or a discord and people would come and hang out.  Why this scheme?

Because the RPG community is one continuous fabric, whether it wants to admit that or not--an attempt to improve the community that is only in isolated zone cannot protect itself from attacks from outside or make a meaningful impact--it has to be integrated (and share information with) adjacent communities.

Quote"The instructions were to create the infovirus, but I didn't say when and where to release it.... yet..."

None of the instructions --or the deal they create--stipulate someone must wait for further instructions. The obligation of the participant is laid out in full.

QuoteI mean come on, it's reasonable to be concerned that it would be the next step, right?

No. No "next step" is stipulated. The deal is laid out in full.

That is like saying if someone buys a pineapple it's reasonable to be concerned what the "next step" will be. There is no next step stipulated.

QuoteBut you HAVE to know that these shenanigans are at least a little bit eyeroll, I'm sure.

"eyeroll"? The RPG communtiy created a problem. If it gets fixed it it will be the first time this has ever happened and will require a novel solution. so, by definition, it will "look weird" to people who just do whatever is normal.

QuoteThis thread is pretty fun, so was the thread where you made that guy apologize to you and Pundit pinned it.

Which one? There was two.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 16, 2024, 01:06:30 AMFirst, he lives a perverted promiscuous lifestyle.

This invalidates anything you could ever say.

Quote from: Franky on December 16, 2024, 02:54:27 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 16, 2024, 01:06:30 AMHe must not have been beaten enough as a child. 

Maybe not, but as an adult, by all appearances, he is losing teeth at an alarming rate.

Dr Pepper and the financial consequences of cancellation when I needed dental care---as is extensively documented.

QuoteThis plan of his seems like an inefficient way to bring about any sort of change in the usual content on the social media platforms mentioned.

As I already stated: I got what I wanted in record time. Plus 9000 unexpected dollars.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 15, 2024, 08:12:01 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 15, 2024, 07:10:11 PMI repeat again, for emphasis, absolute masterstroke.

Yawn.
You keep quoting a case that Zak won, and insist that it somehow proves that he is a harasser. That's not how it works. There's the court decision that Viv couldn't bear the burden of proof or whatever it's worded legally, so she loses the case. Also there are videos of Viv herself admitting that she lied in those claims that you keep waving around.
Poor unfortunate troll.

I see the reading comprehension of Zaks cultists has not improved (but then again, how could it when you have been paid to push a narrative here). Where did I insist he is a harasser? You made that up.

The court decision pertains to Vivka grey's statements about Zak. The segment mentioned pertains to the statements made by Zak about Vivka. The decision is that they (Zaks statements) are false, but not libellous. So legally speaking, and I repeat myself, he is the only person in this thread who has made false claims.

Even if these videos were 'floating around', they are irrelevant to that point. In this instance the truth of Zaks statements (11 false claims) has no bearing on the truth of Grey's statements (1 false claim out of 8 ). By his own admission, Zak consorted with countless liars before they decided to kick him to the curb. It should come as no surprise that a situation can exist where both parties are dishonest. For example, you yourself are dishonest and are here under false pretence. That does not preclude the possibility that I too might be dishonest.

As a person who is easily manipulated, you should realize that your attempts to do so with normal people come across as clumsy and ineffectual.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 16, 2024, 04:19:27 AMSo legally speaking, and I repeat myself, he is the only person in this thread who has made false claims.

You are so 100% incorrect about that. Stating things in an uptight way while everyone else is swearing doesn't suddenly mean they're true.

As I said the last time: if you think I did a single thing wrong, sign an affidavit saying so.

editing

Blast the timing of these brigading allegations - I was about to offer a promotion wherein I offer the entire Buddyscott Entertainment Group corpus for free (normal retail value 0.00$)  and all you had to do was go on various social media platforms and say that you pity Mr S and hope his twisted soul is one day healed.
Well that's not gonna fly now but I'm still in the jolly old Christmas spirit of giving so I'll continue to offer these products for free with no added strings.

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 04:25:08 AM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 16, 2024, 04:19:27 AMSo legally speaking, and I repeat myself, he is the only person in this thread who has made false claims.

You are so 100% incorrect about that. Stating things in an uptight way while everyone else is swearing doesn't suddenly mean they're true.

As I said the last time: if you think I did a single thing wrong, sign an affidavit saying so.

I like it that you edited your statement from 'polite' to 'uptight' to squeeze an additional erg of contempt from your sentence. So fussy.

Stalling. I have stated my conclusion and the evidence I used to reach it. You should of course be given a chance to defend yourself. Either discuss the evidence, discuss the conclusion, provide counter-evidence or refuse to do so and let us draw the neccessary conclusion ourselves. If needed I can post screenshots of the relevant sections of the lawsuit although I have already indicated them.

While you are at it, since it is highly probable we will find out anyway, can you confirm Chtonic Goblin is the Lotfp author Becami Cussack? I infer this from the unmistakable writing style and general histrionics, reminiscent of a mentally ill infant, but it is always possible you have acquired an additional, even more disabled, gimp.

Pundit, has this thread gone on long enough? It just seems to be going quite poorly?

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on December 16, 2024, 11:50:22 AMPundit, has this thread gone on long enough? It just seems to be going quite poorly?

Agreed. We've given this narcissist enough attention.

You are free to ignore the thread, there are many other threads to read and comment on.
Let the thread go as long as it needs to go.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 15, 2024, 04:07:37 PMI don't care if he's a hoboe, people give away free stuff all the time and you have to "like this post and leave a comment" or "recommend it to your friends". Thank Xiombarg people don't go crazy about it, well maybe they will now, I don't know anymore. My point is it's not a spooky conspiracy or even something new.
And people pay thousands of dollars for craziest stuff all the time, at least this is not an NFT or whatever it's called, it's a paper book and you can actually hold it.

I have zero issues with someone asking for likes and comments to get stuff; that's pretty much how Youtube sustains its creators. The only "issue" I have here is that it is ALWAYS something with this clown and he insists on shitposting here because he literally cannot deal with the fact that a lot of people here think he's an absolute moron. He is pathological with his need for validation, not to mention with the incessant sophistry that would make an ambulance chasing lawyer blush. Dare to disagree with faggotboy? Welp, have fun with a million words explaining how 2+2 does not in fact equal 4 because we cannot agree on any values of 2.

I see a human being who has done more good for the rpg industry by creating amazing products for it, winning awards for that, being absolutely shat on by a huge number of people who are apparently motivated by jealousy and by their appeasement to a toxic echo-chamber. Sock-puppets who are repeating the same stale claims which have long ago been debunked with evidence. Those same people ignoring the evidence and continue to shit on him.

He is responsible for his behaviour, you are responsible for yours. The toxicity is self-evident.

Meanwhile, it is Zaks books which are selling for $1000 each and not yours. That is how much value and respect people outside of the toxic hate mob have for him. Earlier on this thread you had people effectively funding the RPG industry at media and promotions level come in here to defend him by explaining that despite the allegations, what Zak was saying is actually true.

The sock puppets continue repeating the same debunked hatred regardless of that. It's not worth repeating the same cycle of the same words if trolls are simply ignoring it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 02:47:57 AM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 15, 2024, 10:43:16 PMI have a question for Zak.
Why did so many people try to destroy you in the wake of the Mandy claims?

Ask Neil Gaiman, Kehinde Wiley and Ed Piskor.

There situations seem different. In those cases people are claiming sexual inpropriaties against the folks you named, either because its true or as part of a shakedown. In your case the people created sock-puppets (according to your link) hoping to destroy you with no expectation of gain. You have no theories on why?

edit: mistaken post

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 02:55:53 AMBecause the RPG community is one continuous fabric, whether it wants to admit that or not--an attempt to improve the community that is only in isolated zone cannot protect itself from attacks from outside or make a meaningful impact--it has to be integrated (and share information with) adjacent communities.

Of the people I game with (and have ever gamed with), only two of them have ever dipped their toes into internet discussion of TTRPGs, and only one still does (not counting myself).  So while I don't dispute your "continuous fabric", I will point out that only a few spots on said fabric are perceptible to one trying to observe this fabric.  Are we to assume that they are distributed evenly, and thus the fabric is understandable from observation, or is it more likely that we are only seeing people who have strong opinions, or need help, or like to chat?  I think it's more likely to be the second.  I think that, for instance, forums during the D&D 3.X era, where players suddenly started assuming that all zillion splat books should be assumed to be the main essence of the game, twisted how the game was perceived by the developers, leading in main part to 4ed's much stricter and well defined rules and settings.  These were professionals, and by observing the section of TTRPG players who made themselves visible and heard (and bullied out all those who disagreed with them), they ended up making the wrong game.  It was their job to get this right, and they got it wrong.

I think almost all large places of discussion (reddit, rpg.net, and some of the bigger discords) are controlled by mods who want control of discussion and want to set up a type of informational toll booth.  To them, the users exist to grant their top-down whims legitimacy.  Have they ever had your thought of a continuous fabric of gamers, of actually having communications?  I doubt it.  I can post on reddit's bigger subreddits, but if I post in any thread about something controversial, I'll be silenced within minutes.  Tools invented to silence spammers and trolls are used with abandon on legitimate users.

Good luck changing that.  Your core position is correct, of course, but I don't think putting people with good taste into /r/rpg is going to meaningfully change the discourse.

One place you did mention in your Loyal Members Of The Rebellion post was /r/theosr.  This is run by Evil Dungeonmaster, and he seems to moderate only loosely- no forbidden topics or positions there (that I've seen).  With just normal amounts of participation it would easily be a great alternative to /r/osr, which is entirely lost to wicked mods.  If the goal was just to have a good subreddit that is worth looking at more than once a week (it moves real slow), then just more users there would be a wonder and make it more of a check-every-day sort of place.  By contrast, inserting good users in some of the large places you listed (main subreddits, huge forums, twitter) would be perfume in a sewer.

Anyway, good luck.

Quote from: Venka on December 17, 2024, 12:05:50 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 02:55:53 AMBecause the RPG community is one continuous fabric, whether it wants to admit that or not--an attempt to improve the community that is only in isolated zone cannot protect itself from attacks from outside or make a meaningful impact--it has to be integrated (and share information with) adjacent communities.

Of the people I game with (and have ever gamed with), only two of them have ever dipped their toes into internet discussion of TTRPGs, and only one still does (not counting myself).  So while I don't dispute your "continuous fabric", I will point out that only a few spots on said fabric are perceptible to one trying to observe this fabric.  Are we to assume that they are distributed evenly, and thus the fabric is understandable from observation, or is it more likely that we are only seeing people who have strong opinions, or need help, or like to chat?  I think it's more likely to be the second.  I think that, for instance, forums during the D&D 3.X era, where players suddenly started assuming that all zillion splat books should be assumed to be the main essence of the game, twisted how the game was perceived by the developers, leading in main part to 4ed's much stricter and well defined rules and settings.  These were professionals, and by observing the section of TTRPG players who made themselves visible and heard (and bullied out all those who disagreed with them), they ended up making the wrong game.  It was their job to get this right, and they got it wrong.

I think almost all large places of discussion (reddit, rpg.net, and some of the bigger discords) are controlled by mods who want control of discussion and want to set up a type of informational toll booth.  To them, the users exist to grant their top-down whims legitimacy.  Have they ever had your thought of a continuous fabric of gamers, of actually having communications?  I doubt it.  I can post on reddit's bigger subreddits, but if I post in any thread about something controversial, I'll be silenced within minutes.  Tools invented to silence spammers and trolls are used with abandon on legitimate users.

Good luck changing that.  Your core position is correct, of course, but I don't think putting people with good taste into /r/rpg is going to meaningfully change the discourse.

One place you did mention in your Loyal Members Of The Rebellion post was /r/theosr.  This is run by Evil Dungeonmaster, and he seems to moderate only loosely- no forbidden topics or positions there (that I've seen).  With just normal amounts of participation it would easily be a great alternative to /r/osr, which is entirely lost to wicked mods.  If the goal was just to have a good subreddit that is worth looking at more than once a week (it moves real slow), then just more users there would be a wonder and make it more of a check-every-day sort of place.  By contrast, inserting good users in some of the large places you listed (main subreddits, huge forums, twitter) would be perfume in a sewer.

Anyway, good luck.

Zak just proves that EVERYBODY that uses the term "Community" is searching to get power and control of the hobby.

This is true regardless of the hobby.

There's no "RPG Communiteh", period.

Lumping together theRPGsite and the Evil DM's Reddit, which are relatively free speech sites, alongside rpgnet and the other brutally repressive censorship sites where the mods silence anyone whose views they don't like, means that whatever Zak may say this is, it's not that Zak doesn't want brutal repressive censorship.
On the contrary, it seems that what's longed for is sites that engage in absolute and brutal censorship in his favor. If rpgnet was pro-Zak, and would ban, delete and block any posts critical of himself, I assume that would not be a "hostile" site.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 17, 2024, 04:50:20 PMLumping together theRPGsite and the Evil DM's Reddit, which are relatively free speech sites, alongside rpgnet and the other brutally repressive censorship sites where the mods silence anyone whose views they don't like, means that whatever Zak may say this is, it's not that Zak doesn't want brutal repressive censorship.
On the contrary, it seems that what's longed for is sites that engage in absolute and brutal censorship in his favor. If rpgnet was pro-Zak, and would ban, delete and block any posts critical of himself, I assume that would not be a "hostile" site.

You always make this mistake because its tied up with advertising yourself and your site.

What I want is a site which has the same legal and moral obligations of a person or a news source rather than the dodge designed by Zuck and other internet platforms.

A newspaper knows it needs to get its facts right or it hasn't done its job--if there's a mistake, there is a retraction. A _platform_ gets the out of saying "Hey this is a bar, if someone is lying over by the dart board that's not on us."

That's not about moderation in favor of me, that's the same ideal that is requested in best-case-scenario academia, in best-case-scenario journalism, in best-case-scenario court, etc--i.e. anywhere that the truth is supposed to matter and be high stakes.

Further, the idea is that when you can't judge the truth you can still judge truth-seeking behavior:

"What's your source?"
"Fuck off"

Is not truth-seeking behavior.

"What's your source?"
(Gives a source, then the conversation continues about the validity of the source)

Is truth-seeking behavior.

There are lots of perfectly nice places to hang out that don't follow these rules--a comedy club, for instance. Unfortunately we live in a world where ideas passed around on RPG forums have become in many cases the only places where many  pieces of information about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things are passed around all the time. Until that changes, A forum where people talk with rules more like the ones for defending your dissertation than the ones for telling jokes on stage is preferable.

This has been explained to you personally, Pundit, about 100 times. And you ignore it because it doesn't help you advertise your site.

Also, it requires more work on the part of the mod staff and most mods are volunteers and (like most kings) like things to be judgment calls instead of follow clear rules because then they have more power.

(Why isn't makin my own site the obvious solution?  Because that doesn't make the problem of people smearing people on other sites go away.)

As Upton Sinclair said "'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'"

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 16, 2024, 04:02:50 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 02:47:57 AM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 15, 2024, 10:43:16 PMI have a question for Zak.
Why did so many people try to destroy you in the wake of the Mandy claims?

Ask Neil Gaiman, Kehinde Wiley and Ed Piskor.

There situations seem different. In those cases people are claiming sexual inpropriaties against the folks you named, either because its true or as part of a shakedown. In your case the people created sock-puppets (according to your link) hoping to destroy you with no expectation of gain. You have no theories on why?

No in each case:

1. People are claiming sexual impropriaties against the folks you named, either because its true or as part of a shakedown, or the accuser is insane.

2. The internet aggressively repeats the accusation before any investigation.

3. People repeating it benefit by getting the same attention-economy benefits they get repeating any other claim that their audience wants to hear about any other controversial topic.

This is pretty much how this always works now. To the degree the motive of the people repeating it in my case might be different, that is very well explored in Dr Weisman's article, where people describe their own motives: https://archive.is/0Nv3c ( audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJAJNbF2Tg ).

re: Kyla Aaron below

Obviously the reference to "sexual perversions" in this and previous remarks from KA means he's got nothing useful to say on any subject.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 15, 2024, 05:04:10 PMCan you please for the love of fuck go be retarded somewhere else?

Like many people with sexual perversions, he's someone who thrives on conflict. If you want him to go away, you have to not engage with him. Abuse simply encourages him.

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMWhat I want is a site which has the same legal and moral obligations of a person or a news source rather than the dodge designed by Zuck and other internet platforms.

WHAT...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMThat's not about moderation in favor of me, that's the same ideal that is requested in best-case-scenario academia, in best-case-scenario journalism, in best-case-scenario court, etc--i.e. anywhere that the truth is supposed to matter and be high stakes.

THE...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMUnfortunately we live in a world where ideas passed around on RPG forums have become in many cases the only places where many  pieces of information about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things is passed around all the time. Until that changes, A forum where people talk with rules more like the ones for defending your dissertation than the ones for telling jokes on stage is preferable.

FUCK?

I firmly believe that nobody else here wants this place to be a regimented circus following your ideals. Hell. this is a place run by "The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords." That doesn't sound like the kind of place where a rational person has heavy discussion "about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things." No, you dumbass, it's a place to talk about GAMES and have fun.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2024, 01:52:36 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMWhat I want is a site which has the same legal and moral obligations of a person or a news source rather than the dodge designed by Zuck and other internet platforms.

WHAT...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMThat's not about moderation in favor of me, that's the same ideal that is requested in best-case-scenario academia, in best-case-scenario journalism, in best-case-scenario court, etc--i.e. anywhere that the truth is supposed to matter and be high stakes.

THE...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMUnfortunately we live in a world where ideas passed around on RPG forums have become in many cases the only places where many  pieces of information about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things is passed around all the time. Until that changes, A forum where people talk with rules more like the ones for defending your dissertation than the ones for telling jokes on stage is preferable.

FUCK?

I firmly believe that nobody else here wants this place to be a regimented circus following your ideals. Hell. this is a place run by "The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords." That doesn't sound like the kind of place where a rational person has heavy discussion "about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things." No, you dumbass, it's a place to talk about GAMES and have fun.

And if you agreed to never discuss anything important or you all wore a magical talisman guaranteeing nobody here ever believed what was written here that would be no problem.

Unfortunately experience has taught us a really fucked up thing:

No matter how overtly shitlordy a game site, people will believe and act on the things written there.

This is why we can't have shitty things.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:56:35 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2024, 01:52:36 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMWhat I want is a site which has the same legal and moral obligations of a person or a news source rather than the dodge designed by Zuck and other internet platforms.

WHAT...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMThat's not about moderation in favor of me, that's the same ideal that is requested in best-case-scenario academia, in best-case-scenario journalism, in best-case-scenario court, etc--i.e. anywhere that the truth is supposed to matter and be high stakes.

THE...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMUnfortunately we live in a world where ideas passed around on RPG forums have become in many cases the only places where many  pieces of information about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things is passed around all the time. Until that changes, A forum where people talk with rules more like the ones for defending your dissertation than the ones for telling jokes on stage is preferable.

FUCK?

I firmly believe that nobody else here wants this place to be a regimented circus following your ideals. Hell. this is a place run by "The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords." That doesn't sound like the kind of place where a rational person has heavy discussion "about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things." No, you dumbass, it's a place to talk about GAMES and have fun.

And if you agreed to never discuss anything important or you all wore a magical talisman guaranteeing nobody here ever believed what was written here that would be no problem.

Unfortunately experience has taught us a really fucked up thing:

No matter how overtly shitlordy a game site, people will believe and act on the things written there.

This is why we can't have shitty things.

Perhaps you can't, but many of us are doing just fine.

I'll let you in on a secret: This forum is not where I discuss my business in the game industry (primarily in proofreading, but I've dabbled with some writing). I have official (non-public) work sites for such conversations, and they do have much stricter rules, which everyone on them follows because we are being paid to do so.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2024, 02:01:08 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:56:35 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2024, 01:52:36 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMWhat I want is a site which has the same legal and moral obligations of a person or a news source rather than the dodge designed by Zuck and other internet platforms.

WHAT...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMThat's not about moderation in favor of me, that's the same ideal that is requested in best-case-scenario academia, in best-case-scenario journalism, in best-case-scenario court, etc--i.e. anywhere that the truth is supposed to matter and be high stakes.

THE...

Quote from: Zak S on December 17, 2024, 05:18:49 PMUnfortunately we live in a world where ideas passed around on RPG forums have become in many cases the only places where many  pieces of information about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things is passed around all the time. Until that changes, A forum where people talk with rules more like the ones for defending your dissertation than the ones for telling jokes on stage is preferable.

FUCK?

I firmly believe that nobody else here wants this place to be a regimented circus following your ideals. Hell. this is a place run by "The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords." That doesn't sound like the kind of place where a rational person has heavy discussion "about extremely high-stakes life-affecting things." No, you dumbass, it's a place to talk about GAMES and have fun.

And if you agreed to never discuss anything important or you all wore a magical talisman guaranteeing nobody here ever believed what was written here that would be no problem.

Unfortunately experience has taught us a really fucked up thing:

No matter how overtly shitlordy a game site, people will believe and act on the things written there.

This is why we can't have shitty things.

Perhaps you can't, but many of us are doing just fine.

I'll let you in on a secret: This forum is not where I discuss my business in the game industry (primarily in proofreading, but I've dabbled with some writing). I have official (non-public) work sites for such conversations, and they do have much stricter rules, which everyone on them follows because we are being paid to do so.

And if you were the only possible human being in history that anyone got it in their head to talk about then this would make sense.

But you're not.

People have literally proposed "But I just wrote it in this shitty place?" as a legal defense against defamation and it didn't fly. Because even the law knows that lies on a shitpost site still get believed, even if they aren't lies about you, Happy Daze the proofreader, specifically.

I will add that I am not suggesting that this change will be made or that you'll ever agree--I am just correcting the Pundit's silly proposal above. Instead of the silly thing he said I believe I am laying out the thing I actually believe.

I have no delusions that most people here or the Pundit will think it's a good idea--but it is better to be hated for the things you said than things Pundit made up.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 17, 2024, 12:32:39 PMZak just proves that EVERYBODY that uses the term "Community" is searching to get power and control of the hobby.

This is true regardless of the hobby.

There's no "RPG Communiteh", period.

For me, it's a massive red flag when someone comes into a hobby space or subculture talking about the community.  In pretty much every case, there is no such thing as the, singular community.  There are many smaller communities with some contact between them.  People who talk about the community want to create the appearance of a single community composed of everyone in the hobby or subculture.  Referring to it as the community also removes ownership from it.  It's not your community.  It's the community.  They create this imaginary community so that they can then try to assert power over it.  The community does not tolerate blah blah blah.  The dead giveaway is that, if they manage to get any power, they will quickly stop talking about the community and start talking about our community and then their community.  Then the people who built the community are out on their ass wondering how this happened.   

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 05:02:57 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 17, 2024, 12:32:39 PMZak just proves that EVERYBODY that uses the term "Community" is searching to get power and control of the hobby.

This is true regardless of the hobby.

There's no "RPG Communiteh", period.

For me, it's a massive red flag when someone comes into a hobby space or subculture talking about the community.  In pretty much every case, there is no such thing as the, singular community.  There are many smaller communities with some contact between them.  People who talk about the community want to create the appearance of a single community composed of everyone in the hobby or subculture.  Referring to it as the community also removes ownership from it.  It's not your community.  It's the community.  They create this imaginary community so that they can then try to assert power over it.  The community does not tolerate blah blah blah.  The dead giveaway is that, if they manage to get any power, they will quickly stop talking about the community and start talking about our community and then their community.  Then the people who built the community are out on their ass wondering how this happened.   

"Red flag"-based conversations are the opposite of fact-based conversations.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 13, 2024, 05:29:52 PMSomeone privately sent me this:

Quotehttps://pastebin.com/QJNhcN3F?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3xT-k7XV4ms-4BrkLiTabuZBkw5Qpsv5k0Kgh1UdwjG9fQsm6Xqzx1nxo_aem_BhHYBVGVqwguMHufRMxJ3w

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Alright, the Compendium is free, and the work I did for my D&D game-including the Cube World pdfs-will no longer be available any other way. It will ship anywhere in the world, free.
 
Again, all this goes away Jan 1. It will not be available any more nor will any of this stuff. This is a limited edition collectors' item.
 
Here's the deal: there are a lot of you. You send messages of support, you ask for game stuff I make, you are lovely and-frankly-it's really hard to find you or talk to you.
 
So, in order to help do this, anyone who wants this Compendium should perform the following social media tasks. If this seems absolutely impossible and horrible, remember you can send me 1000$ instead and I will rush-ship the Compendium to you immediately (VenMo ZakZSmith ).
 
Otherwise-to get the book, do this stuff. If there is some specific task that is technically impossible for some reason, get in touch and we'll find something else you can do to replace that task.
 
If you're thinking "But I'm not on social media" well that's the problem: you aren't. But now you will be.
 
(Please note also that if anyone spots a mistake in the Compendium I may change it at this point, so the precise page order of the Compendium you see in the ads might be different than what you get, but all the material you've seen in the posts/ads will be there.)
 
Please follow the instructions carefully, they matter. Keep in mind the difference between a "post" and a "comment".
 
1. A lot of platforms are named below-within a week of receiving this email send me your screen names on those platforms along an email with the subject line, all-caps ******************. In the email you don't have to send anything else but your screen-names in that email. The screennames can be whatever works for you-some people like to be anonymous, some do not care. Put some kind of picture in your avatar on platforms that have avatars so people can remember you. Post what you like on these platforms but do not get thrown off.
 
[snip]

Wow.  Seriously?  This sounds more like a cult than a business.

Quote from: Mishihari on December 18, 2024, 05:15:00 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 13, 2024, 05:29:52 PMSomeone privately sent me this:

Quotehttps://pastebin.com/QJNhcN3F?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3xT-k7XV4ms-4BrkLiTabuZBkw5Qpsv5k0Kgh1UdwjG9fQsm6Xqzx1nxo_aem_BhHYBVGVqwguMHufRMxJ3w

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Alright, the Compendium is free, and the work I did for my D&D game-including the Cube World pdfs-will no longer be available any other way. It will ship anywhere in the world, free.
 
Again, all this goes away Jan 1. It will not be available any more nor will any of this stuff. This is a limited edition collectors' item.
 
Here's the deal: there are a lot of you. You send messages of support, you ask for game stuff I make, you are lovely and-frankly-it's really hard to find you or talk to you.
 
So, in order to help do this, anyone who wants this Compendium should perform the following social media tasks. If this seems absolutely impossible and horrible, remember you can send me 1000$ instead and I will rush-ship the Compendium to you immediately (VenMo ZakZSmith ).
 
Otherwise-to get the book, do this stuff. If there is some specific task that is technically impossible for some reason, get in touch and we'll find something else you can do to replace that task.
 
If you're thinking "But I'm not on social media" well that's the problem: you aren't. But now you will be.
 
(Please note also that if anyone spots a mistake in the Compendium I may change it at this point, so the precise page order of the Compendium you see in the ads might be different than what you get, but all the material you've seen in the posts/ads will be there.)
 
Please follow the instructions carefully, they matter. Keep in mind the difference between a "post" and a "comment".
 
1. A lot of platforms are named below-within a week of receiving this email send me your screen names on those platforms along an email with the subject line, all-caps ******************. In the email you don't have to send anything else but your screen-names in that email. The screennames can be whatever works for you-some people like to be anonymous, some do not care. Put some kind of picture in your avatar on platforms that have avatars so people can remember you. Post what you like on these platforms but do not get thrown off.
 
[snip]

Wow.  Seriously?  This sounds more like a cult than a business.

"Like and subscribe"

"Buy one get one free"

"Free miles with purchase"

These things are not cults. You do something---> you get something.

It also isn't really business, if you read. The people who pay 1000$ for it aren't finding out through any kind of promotion the other fans are doing.

It's just community-building. More people, more interconnected, more active, more to talk about.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:06:47 AM"Red flag"-based conversations are the opposite of fact-based conversations.

Actually, it's simple pattern recognition.  For example, this kind of pompous, self-important word salad is a good indicator that you are talking to someone who is trying very hard to appear more clever than they actually are.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:18:58 AMIt's just community-building. More people, more interconnected, more active, more to talk about.

I have seen nothing from you or the people who are presumably here at your behest in this thread that even remotely resembles any attempt at community-building.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 05:21:30 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:06:47 AM"Red flag"-based conversations are the opposite of fact-based conversations.


Actually, it's simple pattern recognition. 

"Pattern recognition" in this context just means "I have no evidence I am paranoid."

And if you think any of this is "word salad"--point to the phrase that you failed to understand and I will translate it just for you personally so you can follow the conversation.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:18:58 AMIt's just community-building. More people, more interconnected, more active, more to talk about.

I have seen nothing from you or the people who are presumably here at your behest in this thread that even remotely resembles any attempt at community-building.

If you're looking for community building in the smear thread, that is not a rational place to look.

You'd want to look at conversations the folks who are into the book are having with each other, not with a bunch of people who made some shit up and now I gotta fact-check them.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/c03da3cdbc2b0094134c2413a09fead1/0e81aac65b6260a6-69/s1280x1920/693b68037130aacb1d38c014659de1734f245750.png)

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:28:26 AMIf you're looking for community building in the smear thread, that is not a rational place to look.

You'd want to look at conversations the folks who are into the book are having with each other, not with a bunch of people who made some shit up and now I gotta fact-check them.

That's a very convenient and self-serving way to characterize it.  That seems to be the way you characterize everything.  For example, characterizing pompous word salad and disingenuous whataboutery as fact-checking.  You say you are here to make the community better.  How, exactly, do you plan on doing that?  Is this it?

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 05:34:36 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:28:26 AMIf you're looking for community building in the smear thread, that is not a rational place to look.

You'd want to look at conversations the folks who are into the book are having with each other, not with a bunch of people who made some shit up and now I gotta fact-check them.

That's a very convenient and self-serving way to characterize it.  That seems to be the way you characterize everything.  For example, characterizing pompous word salad and disingenuous whataboutery as fact-checking.  You say you are here to make the community better.  How, exactly, do you plan on doing that?  Is this it?

Again:

If you think any of this is "word salad" point to the phrase that you failed to understand and I will explain it to you so you can follow the conversation.

That, for example, is a community service. Because you didn't understand the words, I will rephrase them so you can understand the words.

You're having trouble understanding. This can be fixed.

re: Brad below

Trolling as usual.

I thought it was difficult to reason with my 6 year old, but he seems like Mr. Spock compared to Zak...

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:37:40 AMIf you think any of this is "word salad" point to the phrase that you failed to understand and I will explain it to you so you can follow the conversation.

The explanation would just be more of the same.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 05:18:58 AMIt's just community-building. More people, more interconnected, more active, more to talk about.

That, for example, is a community service. Because you didn't understand the words, I will rephrase them so you can understand the words.

You're having trouble understanding. This can be fixed.

re: Brad below

Trolling as usual.

How does being a pompous ass and calling me a troll serve the community in any way?  How does it serve anyone but you?  An increase in activity only builds a community if it's signal rather than noise.  An increase in noise has an opposite effect.  So far, everything I have seen you post in this thread has been noise.  Actually, everything I have seen you post on this forum in general has been noise.  I see no sign that you have any interest in community building at all.  The only thing you seem to actually care about is doing spin on some internet drama that, as far as I can, has precious little to do with this forum in the first place.  I don't see how going on about it uplifts anyone but you.   

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 06:04:22 AMThe explanation would just be more of the same.

Since you:

1. clearly understood the offer
and
2. rejected it

..then it must be true that you can actually understand my explanations and they aren't "word salad".

QuoteHow does being a pompous ass

You'd have to find one and ask.

 

Quoteand calling me a troll serve the community in any way?

If someone is a troll, identifying them as a bad source of information helps anyone tempted to believe them.

It's bad to act on unreliable information.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:07:04 AM..then it must be true that you can actually understand my explanations and they aren't "word salad".

I have seen your pompous posturing and non-answers.  I have seen that sort of thing before many times.  I don't need more of it.  I know this line of bullshit because I used to do it.  Then I realized that it was a stupid waste of my time. 

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:07:04 AMYou'd have to find one and ask.

I'm talking to one now.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:07:04 AMIf someone is a troll, identifying them as a bad source of information helps anyone tempted to believe them.

It's bad to act on unreliable information.

Do you even know what a troll is?  I'll give you a hint.  It doesn't mean source of information.

I see you have done some post editing.  Pattern recognition is just what it says.  It's recognition of a pattern such as certain words and phrases frequently being used by people who act in bad faith.  Another example is that people who are trying to control a narrative often refer to themselves as fact-checkers.  They are also very fond of talking about misinformation.  Personally, I don't give a shit about whatever internet drama you keep bringing up.  You are trying to control a conversation that no one was even having before you brought it up.  No one would even be talking about this irrelevant internet drama if you didn't insist on bringing it up.     

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 06:22:25 AMI have seen your pompous posturing and non-answers.

You say something is word salad.
I offer to explain it.

How is that a "non-answer"? That is a direct answer.

QuotePersonally, I don't give a shit about whatever internet drama you keep bringing up.   

Then you can stop posting in this thread and do other things.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:25:43 AMHow is that a "non-answer"? That is a direct answer.

Another bowl of word salad is not actually an answer.  I don't remember seeing you give an actual answer to anything.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:25:43 AMThen you can stop posting in this thread and do other things.

So you admit that this thread is entirely about that?

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 06:35:14 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:25:43 AMHow is that a "non-answer"? That is a direct answer.

Another bowl of word salad is not actually an answer.  I don't remember seeing you give an actual answer to anything.

Please cut and paste the question you want an answer to that I didn't answer.

Last I knew, you asked how pointing out trolls helped the community and I gave a clear answer.

If I did not answer other questions, I apologize and will answer them now.

QuoteSo you admit that this thread is entirely about that?

This thread was started with a fake claim--that I was "brigading" something. It's in the title. Of course the thread is entirely about that.

I am here to fact-check.

Once people (like you) stop posting about how much they hate (whatever) then it goes away and you won't see it anymore.

If you hate talking to me so much you can just. Stop. Posting.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:41:15 AMIf I did not answer other questions, I apologize and will answer them now.

I tell you what.  I'll do that after I see you actually answer a question.  Any question from anyone.

QuoteSo you admit that this thread is entirely about that?

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:41:15 AMThis thread was started with a fake claim--that I was "brigading" something. It's in the title. Of course the thread is entirely about that.

I am here to fact-check.

You mean the one with "brigading" in quotes?  You know what that means right?  Fact-check?  You can tell yourself that all you want buy I don't buy it even a little bit.  This is spin control.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:41:15 AMOnce people (like you) stop posting about how much they hate (whatever) then it goes away and you won't see it anymore.

If you hate talking to me so much you can just. Stop. Posting.

It doesn't though.  You keep coming back.

That kind of misrepresentation of what people actually said is another sign that you are not here to discuss anything in good faith, build community or do anything but self-serving spin control bullshit.

You can stop posting too.  You kicked off this whole bullshit thing.  This is all you.  I can buy that some of the people who are here at your behest have some interest in actual discussion and maybe even community-building.  I have never seen you contribute positively to anything here.  All you ever post is the same kind of self-important, condescending bullshit you are posting in this thread.  The only effect you have on this community is negative.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 07:07:26 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:41:15 AMIf I did not answer other questions, I apologize and will answer them now.

I tell you what.  I'll do that after I see you actually answer a question.  Any question from anyone.

QuoteSo you admit that this thread is entirely about that?

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 06:41:15 AMThis thread was started with a fake claim--that I was "brigading" something. It's in the title. Of course the thread is entirely about that.

I am here to fact-check.

There it is. There is me answering a question.

QuoteYou mean the one with "brigading" in quotes?

Yes.

There's me answering a question again.

QuoteYou know what that means right?

Yes.

There's me answering a question again.

QuoteFact-check?

Is that a question?

QuoteYou can tell yourself that all you want buy I don't buy it even a little bit.  This is spin control.

You have no evidence so while you are of course free to believe that, believing it means you are not rational.

QuoteIt doesn't though.  You keep coming back.

Actually no: literally the only time I post on this site is when someone makes a thread about me and lies in it.

QuoteYou can stop posting too.

I wasn't complaining about having to talk to you.

I am happy to address your concerns all day long.

It's important to help those who are slow in understanding.

 

QuoteYou kicked off this whole bullshit thing.

Actually, no, I didn't start this thread on TheRPGSite. Someone else did.

QuoteI have never seen you contribute positively to anything here.

Again:
The only reason I come here is when someone else starts a thread about me and people lie in it.

So if you're looking for some non-fact-checking contribution to RPGs, you'd have to look elsewhere.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMThere it is. There is me answering a question.

I mean an actual answer not a self-serving vague evasion.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMI wasn't complaining about having to talk to you.

Actually no one at all was doing that.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMI am happy to address your concerns all day long.

You have yet to even try.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMIt's important to help those who are slow in understanding.

Self-important posturing

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMActually, no,

Actually, yes.  The letter came before this thread.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMSo if you're looking for some non-fact-checking contribution to RPGs, you'd have to look elsewhere.

Repeating that self-serving characterization of what you are doing here doesn't make it any more credible.  You are trying to control the narrative like most people who appoint themselves as fact-checkers and talk about misinformation.  I'm not buying it.  No one here is buying it.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 07:29:41 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMThere it is. There is me answering a question.

I mean an actual answer not a self-serving vague evasion.

An answer you don't like is still an answer.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMI wasn't complaining about having to talk to you.

Actually no one at all was doing that.

So are you no longer claiming you don't like to talk to me?

Because that's why I keep pointing out you can stop posting.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMI am happy to address your concerns all day long.

You have yet to even try.

You lack the tools to judge that.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMIt's important to help those who are slow in understanding.

Self-important posturing

No, charity and patience.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMActually, no,

Actually, yes.  The letter came before this thread.

You are not obliged to talk about it, so no--I didn't start it.

Quote

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:15:18 AMSo if you're looking for some non-fact-checking contribution to RPGs, you'd have to look elsewhere.

Repeating that self-serving characterization of what you are doing here doesn't make it any more credible. 

I can only give the correct answer, not force you to accept it.

QuoteYou are trying to control the narrative

So you're:

-Telling a story about me
-And you want people to accept it

And I'm trying to control a narrative?

What is the difference, to you, between "describing your beliefs" and "controlling a narrative"?

Quotelike most people who appoint themselves as fact-checkers and talk about misinformation.  I'm not buying it.

You've done a survey? Many people have this job. You know all of them? Or most?

QuoteNo one here is buying it.

So if one person agrees with me then you are wrong.

And a few people have popped up in the thread to say they do, so you are proven wrong.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:37:57 AMSo if one person agrees with me then you are wrong.

And a few people have popped up in the thread to say they do, so you are proven wrong.

You mean the ones you're paying off?

This conversation is hilarious when you've got Zak on ignore. Anyone approaching this as if Zak is arguing in good faith is just giving the troll what he wants; attention.

The sooner people stop giving him attention, the sooner he'll move his narcissistic act on to someplace else.

Quote from: Brad on December 18, 2024, 08:46:11 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:37:57 AMSo if one person agrees with me then you are wrong.

And a few people have popped up in the thread to say they do, so you are proven wrong.

You mean the ones you're paying off?

They get a book if they do a bunch of stuff.N one of those things is "agree that this is a community-building thing and not brigading".

So: no.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 18, 2024, 09:01:43 AMThis conversation is hilarious when you've got Zak on ignore. Anyone approaching this as if Zak is arguing in good faith is just giving the troll what he wants; attention.

The sooner people stop giving him attention, the sooner he'll move his narcissistic act on to someplace else.

"Narcissistic" is how nerds say "You're not doing what I, the nerd, wants".

It is true however that--again--the only reason I'm here is to fact-check y'all.

So if you stop talking, I leave.

This is a difficult point in these threads because all the trolls realize they've spent several pages going "I hate you I don't want to talk to you why don't you go away"

And I go "I will, just stop talking, then I go"

But really, they don't like that idea, because they're mostly saying that to do an Internet Tough Guy thing. It's off-brand to leave just because I propose they do it, it makes them feel weak.

So the next phase of the thread is:

Everyone claims they really like being here because it's Oh So Entertaining. And the thread drags on.

So if you're watching at home, expect that.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 09:02:03 AM

Quote from: Brad on December 18, 2024, 08:46:11 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:37:57 AMSo if one person agrees with me then you are wrong.

And a few people have popped up in the thread to say they do, so you are proven wrong.

You mean the ones you're paying off?

They get a book if they do a bunch of stuff.N one of those things is "agree that this is a community-building thing and not brigading".

So: no.

At least you finally admit you're literally paying people off to post here.

Quote from: Brad on December 18, 2024, 09:18:56 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 09:02:03 AM

Quote from: Brad on December 18, 2024, 08:46:11 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 07:37:57 AMSo if one person agrees with me then you are wrong.

And a few people have popped up in the thread to say they do, so you are proven wrong.

You mean the ones you're paying off?

They get a book if they do a bunch of stuff.N one of those things is "agree that this is a community-building thing and not brigading".

So: no.

At least you finally admit you're literally paying people off to post here.

The document that begins this thread says explicitly that they have to post on this site ten times (on any subject).

I never denied that and suggesting I did is dishonest. But we all know you don't care about that.

You also aren't going to admit or go into the fact that "post on theRPGsite on any subject" is not an especially damning or sinister instruction. You're just going to not bring it up.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/1bGXIlSNIgEJYXIH8M/giphy.webp)

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 09:32:11 AMThe document that begins this thread says explicitly that they have to post on this site ten times (on any subject).

I never denied that and suggesting I did is dishonest. But we all know you don't care about that.

You also aren't going to admit or go into the fact that "post on theRPGsite on any subject" is not an especially damning or sinister instruction. You're just going to not bring it up.

Nahh, you deflected multiple times about "muh community," obliquely insinuating that it just wasn't about getting free stuff. The whole point of contention in this thread is that TheRPGSite is "hostile" or something, NOT that you're paying people off. Which you are, fine, IDGAF, but given your track record it's pretty obvious you want to establish a base of board posters that will support you in some fashion, hence the free stuff.

You can claim otherwise, and you might honestly believe you're being benevolent, but alas, your stripes never fade.

Quote from: Brad on December 18, 2024, 09:49:39 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 09:32:11 AMThe document that begins this thread says explicitly that they have to post on this site ten times (on any subject).

I never denied that and suggesting I did is dishonest. But we all know you don't care about that.

You also aren't going to admit or go into the fact that "post on theRPGsite on any subject" is not an especially damning or sinister instruction. You're just going to not bring it up.

Nahh, you deflected multiple times about "muh community," obliquely insinuating that it just wasn't about getting free stuff.

No:

They get free stuff.

I  get community  (as does everyone else who wants it)

That's how transactions work: more than one thing is acquired. X is traded for Y.

Do you think when you buy a twinkie, you and the merchant get a twinkie?

You can't possibly be this stupid.

Imagine if instead of hiring the goon squad to say hollow niceties, Zak actually just went out and acted like a decent human being for once

Quote from: BuddyscottEntertainment on December 18, 2024, 10:21:13 AMImagine if instead of hiring the goon squad to say hollow niceties, Zak actually just went out and acted like a decent human being for once

One of the most decent things a person on the internet can do is point out when someone's lying.

The liar doesn't agree with this, but everybody else does.

I think the issue is that people for some reason distrust you.

Maybe they don't know you well enough.

For my part, I hope you get a hundred people to join theRPGsite and make 1000 content-laden posts here. And I'm certainly willing to believe that, on account of your convoluted mind, you may perfectly well have intended not to do anything nefarious as such, and only wanted to build up a presence of people you consider good people and positive influences on RPGs (apparently based on the primary qualification that they like you and your products) to make a presence on multiple RPG social media, and that you just went about doing it in a way that seemed secretive and odd. And even that its possible that it wasn't going to turn into any kind of stealth marketing at all.

Never mind that on theRPGsite people are welcome to promote their material (or other people's material), for free, anytime, as long as they do so in the correct methods: either by making content-filled threads about books they like on the main forum (or if you were the author even doing something like an 'ask me anything' thread about your book), or making a free blatant advertisement or notice on the News & Adverts forum. You could do that yourself at any time, as could any of the people you sent here. So long as its done correctly, you can do it on a regular basis if you wanted to.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 18, 2024, 10:46:14 AMI think the issue is that people for some reason distrust you.

Of course they do. Nerds distrust anything novel.

It's been like this since Day One---you have a blog called D&D With Porn Stars and the first thing you hear is they aren't actually porn stars. You embarrass someone about that, they begin to nurse a grudge, then the next one comes at you ...it goes on and on.

It has only snowballed from there because distrust breeds distrust,

QuoteNever mind that on theRPGsite people are welcome to promote their material (or other people's material), for free, anytime,

Yeah, promoting material was obviously not the point (I suspect the only people actually paying for the book are long time collectors who are reached via email, not some random mention online), but most people assume a lot of things that don't happen to be true:

-Most people think if a creator is posting it's mainly because they want someone to buy their RPG material

-Most people think that the RPG material is their source of income--or that they want it to be.

-Most people think that making the RPG material is the creative job they want to have.*

None of these things happen to be true in my case. The RPG material is for home use and making a book out of it was a means to an end. Even I'm surprised more than like one person splashed out 1000$ for it (not that I'm complaining). I'll take money (as my signature says) but I know from over a decade's experience that selling it has nothing to do with posting here on TheRPGsite--I see when orders come in and when they don't

The RPG stuff just lures people out into the open to do stuff in the RPG community that is more interesting than buying and selling stuff. I'm a painter and I like that job.

I also know that while a handful of people reading may grasp these things here now as I write them, the next time someone starts a thread on here they will all be forgotten.

-----
*EDIT:
After post 359 I made some clarifications to this post.

Instead of "most people" in these statements I should've written "In my experience, most people in the online RPG community that I'm aware of..."

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 18, 2024, 10:46:14 AMI think the issue is that people for some reason distrust you.

Maybe they don't know you well enough.

For my part, I hope you get a hundred people to join theRPGsite and make 1000 content-laden posts here. And I'm certainly willing to believe that, on account of your convoluted mind, you may perfectly well have intended not to do anything nefarious as such, and only wanted to build up a presence of people you consider good people and positive influences on RPGs (apparently based on the primary qualification that they like you and your products) to make a presence on multiple RPG social media, and that you just went about doing it in a way that seemed secretive and odd. And even that its possible that it wasn't going to turn into any kind of stealth marketing at all.

Never mind that on theRPGsite people are welcome to promote their material (or other people's material), for free, anytime, as long as they do so in the correct methods: either by making content-filled threads about books they like on the main forum (or if you were the author even doing something like an 'ask me anything' thread about your book), or making a free blatant advertisement or notice on the News & Adverts forum. You could do that yourself at any time, as could any of the people you sent here. So long as its done correctly, you can do it on a regular basis if you wanted to.

well this is refreshing to read.
imo it's important to clarify a specific thing: natural discourse doesn't rely on logic. Much of it is implicit. That's why some neurodivergent people struggle communicating, they can't grasp what's implicit, the non-said. they just see the logical relations.
to try and follow cold hard logic in action and communication especially is a good guideline for minimizing communication errors and lowering the recipient's workload, but it can't be done always nor is it auspicable, as we would be speaking in code then.
i believe that some of the arguments in the thread and the thread itself stems from such an error. by reading zak instructions and only the information that is logically derived by them, they are nothing out of the ordinary. no brigade, no cult, no nothing.

but humans don't think like that. we can argue if they should (i gave my lil piece on that above) but they don't. Pundit thought the instr. might appear sketchy. I thought the same, i interrogated myself as to why Zak would do such a thing, in this way. i also knew i couldn't know for sure of any of the previous things (hidden motive etc), i didn't assume what i thought in any way or another to be true or likely by default. i just accepted what i saw at face value. was i right? dunno. but i'll tell you all this:

i am new here, came here following Zak's instructions and did so externally motivated, book nice. i didn't want to, if i did i would have been here already as well as on all the other platforms. but in the following weeks i found that some of those i like, i will stay there. for how long i can't say and neither if active or not, i tend to lurk by inclination. but i want to engage more than before, now. i also got something back, e.g. i am reading lankhmar: city of adventure for propping up my game and would NEVER have i somebody didn't suggest me to in the process of following zak's instructions. and that's one thing among many, i benefited from this thing and maybe somebody else also has by the contributions i have made. i spent so much time just reading blogs and DIYing rpg stuff i might have something to give back. i didn't think that before. i do now.
i am no sock, no bot, no cultist, no nothing. Just a Guy, and i'm here specifically thanks to Zak's push.
what's his (real) motive i don't know. nobody else does. maybe not even Zak himself. what's sure to me is what he wrote, and the effect it had on me. idk about the others, they might all be a vicious troll army, who knows? i don't. you don't.
so let's kindly stop making stuff up, we do that enough for playing rpgs.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 16, 2024, 03:25:42 PMI see a human being who has done more good for the rpg industry by creating amazing products for it, winning awards for that, being absolutely shat on by a huge number of people who are apparently motivated by jealousy and by their appeasement to a toxic echo-chamber. Sock-puppets who are repeating the same stale claims which have long ago been debunked with evidence. Those same people ignoring the evidence and continue to shit on him.

He is responsible for his behaviour, you are responsible for yours. The toxicity is self-evident.

Meanwhile, it is Zaks books which are selling for $1000 each and not yours. That is how much value and respect people outside of the toxic hate mob have for him. Earlier on this thread you had people effectively funding the RPG industry at media and promotions level come in here to defend him by explaining that despite the allegations, what Zak was saying is actually true.

The sock puppets continue repeating the same debunked hatred regardless of that. It's not worth repeating the same cycle of the same words if trolls are simply ignoring it.

What debunked hatred is being repeated and where has it been debunked? You are just spouting whatever programming has been hastily poured into your tiny plastic mind before you are sent out to function as a human spam bot, and you have been told to repeat that everything has been debunked already in lieu of dealing with it. Your price for this wretched servitude is an rpg book.

I repeat, page 37 to 38, 11 of Zaks statements were found to be false.

Quote"The Court's Finding that Smith's February 13 facebook post contains False Statements, as identified above, does not end the inquiry. To qualify as libel, the statement must "expose [] [the plaintiff] [] to hatred, contempt, ridicule ,obliquy, or...cause [] [plaintiff] to be shunned or avoided, or...ha[ve] a tendency to injure plaintiff in his occupation."   

By the standards of the Superior Court of California, Zak has made false claims and the rest of these thread dwellers have not. Now there might be reasons for those false claims, but conveniently, these can be ignored, as Zak himself has stated repeatedly that spreading misinformation is the same as lying and liars should not be believed.

If you abide by Zaks moral code, you have to act according to it and hold him and yourselves accountable. If not it is fake nonsense, rules for thee but not for me, and we should treat you as an invasive species.   

Here is the lawsuit again, just so that it is crystal clear what I am quoting, and what I am saying. The lawsuit concerns defamation, it is clear that in one instance out of 8, Vivka Grey did indeed commit defamation. But something is not automatically true because it is not defamation, as the paragraph indicates.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PMalotta gibberish

Look, if whatever you think you found when your uninformed ass cherry-picked out of that case that I won, nobody who had any skin in the game found anything because here's the next result:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)

Quote from: adrianthebard on December 18, 2024, 12:12:13 PMi am new here, came here following Zak's instructions and did so externally motivated, book nice. i didn't want to, if i did i would have been here already as well as on all the other platforms. but in the following weeks i found that some of those i like, i will stay there. for how long i can't say and neither if active or not, i tend to lurk by inclination. but i want to engage more than before, now. i also got something back, e.g. i am reading lankhmar: city of adventure for propping up my game and would NEVER have i somebody didn't suggest me to in the process of following zak's instructions. and that's one thing among many, i benefited from this thing and maybe somebody else also has by the contributions i have made. i spent so much time just reading blogs and DIYing rpg stuff i might have something to give back. i didn't think that before. i do now.
i am no sock, no bot, no cultist, no nothing. Just a Guy, and i'm here specifically thanks to Zak's push.
what's his (real) motive i don't know. nobody else does. maybe not even Zak himself. what's sure to me is what he wrote, and the effect it had on me. idk about the others, they might all be a vicious troll army, who knows? i don't. you don't.
so let's kindly stop making stuff up, we do that enough for playing rpgs.

This is a convincingly human statement but Zak should have spent more time programming you with basic language formatting rules like capitolization and use of paragraphs.

Explanation. The reason you are correctly triggering the community immuno-response is that A) all these accounts are totally obsessed with Great Leader and consider him to be the greatest thing in the universe and B) anyone who does not think so is either woefully ignorant or a bad-faith actor that must be driven from the hobby and C) you are intending to energetically promulgate that belief, which is extremely rare outside of your creepy community. Even if you were utterly correct in your assumptions (and I hope I have illustrated the problem with a simple example above), you would still be disruptive and difficult to deal with. The question whether creative contribution can mitigate for this sort of behavior is best answered by regarding Zaks toothless pariah-caste status.   

As an aside, I will note in passing that the hated OSR discord has begun purging sock puppets and other places have followed suit. This is looking to be another wash, a battle of the bulge. If you had infiltrated over a longer period and operated more faithfully, you would have had long-standing members in place in various communities, ready to enact a night of long knives, deplatforming problematic bad faith actors, a raising of the scarlet Z. Instead we get another amusing garbage fire. 

What sock puppets?

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:18:21 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PMalotta gibberish

Look, if whatever you think you found when your uninformed ass cherry-picked out of that case that I won, nobody who had any skin in the game found anything because here's the next result:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)

Still not seeing any engagement with the actual content there. Maybe you can bring up you won the lawsuit next time? Maybe that will fool the audience just a tad longer?

This is very 2019 facebook post false claims making behavior.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:26:53 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:18:21 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PMalotta gibberish

Look, if whatever you think you found when your uninformed ass cherry-picked out of that case that I won, nobody who had any skin in the game found anything because here's the next result:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)

Still not seeing any engagement with the actual content there. Maybe you can bring up you won the lawsuit next time? Maybe that will fool the audience just a tad longer?

This is very 2019 facebook post false claims making behavior.

Actual content?
There is no actual content. You (well, Skerples) cherry-picked something you claim is true that I did that was bad buried in the decision in the case that I won. It is not true--it is spin. If it were true I would be in jail or at least charged with something--even just perjury.

Anybody need clarity on whether it was real? There is clarity, because there was another case afterward, and the result was:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)
So that bats cleanup on however important you thought your bullshit was.

Quote from: BuddyscottEntertainment on December 18, 2024, 10:21:13 AMImagine if instead of hiring the goon squad to say hollow niceties, Zak actually just went out and acted like a decent human being for once

He does. I'm one of the many people he has acted like a decent human being with.

A lot of the people on this thread are not. People being personally offensive but attempting to persuade others that the people being nice and talking sense are the ones who are offensive.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 05:02:57 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 17, 2024, 12:32:39 PMZak just proves that EVERYBODY that uses the term "Community" is searching to get power and control of the hobby.

This is true regardless of the hobby.

There's no "RPG Communiteh", period.

For me, it's a massive red flag when someone comes into a hobby space or subculture talking about the community.  In pretty much every case, there is no such thing as the, singular community.  There are many smaller communities with some contact between them.  People who talk about the community want to create the appearance of a single community composed of everyone in the hobby or subculture.  Referring to it as the community also removes ownership from it.  It's not your community.  It's the community.  They create this imaginary community so that they can then try to assert power over it.  The community does not tolerate blah blah blah.  The dead giveaway is that, if they manage to get any power, they will quickly stop talking about the community and start talking about our community and then their community.  Then the people who built the community are out on their ass wondering how this happened.   

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages

noun

1.
a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common.
"Montreal's Italian community"

2.
the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common.
"the sense of community that organized religion can provide"


Of course, it is a maxim of law that the correct interpretation of any word is that which the original speaker intended.


Use of the word 'community' in this sense is suggested by the dictionary to mean;

1 users of this forum
2 people who play and buy d&d/rpg games in general

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 16, 2024, 03:25:42 PMI see a human being who has done more good for the rpg industry by creating amazing products for it, winning awards for that, being absolutely shat on by a huge number of people who are apparently motivated by jealousy and by their appeasement to a toxic echo-chamber. Sock-puppets who are repeating the same stale claims which have long ago been debunked with evidence. Those same people ignoring the evidence and continue to shit on him.

He is responsible for his behaviour, you are responsible for yours. The toxicity is self-evident.

Meanwhile, it is Zaks books which are selling for $1000 each and not yours. That is how much value and respect people outside of the toxic hate mob have for him. Earlier on this thread you had people effectively funding the RPG industry at media and promotions level come in here to defend him by explaining that despite the allegations, what Zak was saying is actually true.

The sock puppets continue repeating the same debunked hatred regardless of that. It's not worth repeating the same cycle of the same words if trolls are simply ignoring it.

What debunked hatred is being repeated and where has it been debunked? You are just spouting whatever programming has been hastily poured into your tiny plastic mind before you are sent out to function as a human spam bot, and you have been told to repeat that everything has been debunked already in lieu of dealing with it. Your price for this wretched servitude is an rpg book.

I repeat, page 37 to 38, 11 of Zaks statements were found to be false.

Quote"The Court's Finding that Smith's February 13 facebook post contains False Statements, as identified above, does not end the inquiry. To qualify as libel, the statement must "expose [] [the plaintiff] [] to hatred, contempt, ridicule ,obliquy, or...cause [] [plaintiff] to be shunned or avoided, or...ha[ve] a tendency to injure plaintiff in his occupation."   

By the standards of the Superior Court of California, Zak has made false claims and the rest of these thread dwellers have not. Now there might be reasons for those false claims, but conveniently, these can be ignored, as Zak himself has stated repeatedly that spreading misinformation is the same as lying and liars should not be believed.

If you abide by Zaks moral code, you have to act according to it and hold him and yourselves accountable. If not it is fake nonsense, rules for thee but not for me, and we should treat you as an invasive species.   

Here is the lawsuit again, just so that it is crystal clear what I am quoting, and what I am saying. The lawsuit concerns defamation, it is clear that in one instance out of 8, Vivka Grey did indeed commit defamation. But something is not automatically true because it is not defamation, as the paragraph indicates.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0

Many people don't understand how legal language and court processes work, and that can cause confusion. In legal terms, the phrase "false claim" doesn't mean someone is lying. Instead, it means the court has decided that a specific point isn't relevant to the case and won't be considered. The terms "true" and "false" in this context are just tools to decide which facts the court will focus on, not a judgment about whether something is honest or truthful.

Courts don't deal with absolute truth—they operate based on rules and procedures to make decisions. It's frustrating to see people misunderstand these terms and use that misunderstanding to fuel personal agendas. When a court says something is "false," it only means the judge has ruled it doesn't belong in the case. It has nothing to do with whether it's honest or true in the broader sense outside of the courtroom.

The points you cherry-picked are taken out of context and show a misunderstanding of due process. The judge's decision to consider her statements "true" for inclusion in due process was based on the sheer number of such statements she made, not their accuracy in reflecting real events. Fewer statements might have led to a different decision. This reflects how the court system operates. Notably, the same document also acknowledges instances where she was found to be lying. Despite manipulation of the proceedings, Zak still prevailed (see conclusion).

A thoughtful and fair-minded individual would consider all these facts before forming judgments or cherry-picking things out of context.

The actions of those directly involved in the case are their responsibility. However, third parties who engage in harassment or defamation campaigns bear responsibility for their own actions—a separate matter entirely.

Still not seeing any engagement with the actual content there. Maybe you can bring up you won the lawsuit next time? Maybe that will fool the audience just a tad longer?

This is very 2019 facebook post false claims making behavior.
[/quote]

@BlueWave, U are repeatedly highlighting a finding which was non-persuasive upon the final judgment of a civil court (which Zak was the plaintiff btw) and trying to illogically bootstrap that finding up into some sort of criminal culpability or wrong doing. It's an absurd proposition which is probably why you continue to get correctly lambasted every time you bring it up.  There are a reasons it is termed a final judgment... One of them being so the parties don't continue to re-hash the hundreds of nested, sub-issues ad nauseam for eternity, which for some reason you seem to want to do, despite not being party to the trial, nor privy to any of the evidence or witness testimony.

The book does look interesting and I have no doubt I'd find something useful in it. I've found something useful in the two prior Zach books I bought (ages ago).

HOWEVER, it does not look $1000 interesting, nor do I have the time to post what looked like roughly 172 posts or comments on that many platforms in 7 days, unless they were essentially garbage posts and duplicate posts, which does nothing good for anyone.

Eh, that's how books are anyways, some people want it badly enough to pay hundreds and thousands. I remember a rare book that was... I don't know, tens of thousands USD on ebay? We're talking really rare, mind, there was no scan online, no nothing.
Again, I'm not counting other people's money, what they buy for their 1000 bucks is their business.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:26:06 PMWhat sock puppets?

You do realize, of course, that your minions flooding in provide excellent screening for you to engage in sock puppetting, right? Not just here, but on all of the sites you've targeted.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 18, 2024, 03:41:45 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:26:06 PMWhat sock puppets?

You do realize, of course, that your minions flooding in provide excellent screening for you to engage in sock puppetting, right? Not just here, but on all of the sites you've targeted.

What would I sock puppet to say, genius? What super-special piece of banshee oratory of which only I am capable do you think I must deliver under the cloak of the crowd?

The killing joke?

Power Word, Stun?

Like I can just say shit--and people who've flown across the country to stand up for me in court under oath or who paid 1000$ for a book can say what they want to say and I trust it'll be fine

This is like that onetime on the RPG Pub someone noticed I edited a comment and I was like "Ok, supersleuth--what possible thing could I have changed in my comment that would make this any different in any way?"

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 04:00:36 PMThis is like that onetime on the RPG Pub someone noticed I edited a comment and I was like "Ok, supersleuth--what possible thing could I have changed in my comment that would make this any different in any way?"

Sometimes people just want the negative attention because it is at least some attention. They don't know any other way to get it than to try to provoke people. All the trolls behave the same way. It's so predictable and so boring

Quote from: Franky on December 16, 2024, 02:54:27 AMMaybe not, but as an adult, by all appearances, he is losing teeth at an alarming rate.  Scurvy?

I've not watched a video or kept up with his blog so I'll have to take your word for it.

In this city I visited there was a basement game store, and a woman running it, chubby redheaded. We gamed a few times and I'd noticed she had kind of thinning hair but some people it's just not thick and lustrous, you know? so I didn't think much of it. And she was always sick, but young women in their 20s are like that. "My back hurts." But another gamer said, "I've never seen her eat anything but chips and chocolate. I think she has scurvy."

So it's possible!

Could be methamphetimines, too. Excessive stimulant use sometimes leads to erratic behaviour - manic, with bursts of productivity (sitting up all night writing), grandiosity (I'm so awesome, I'm gonna go places!), promiscuity and deviant sexual behaviour, and of course hypersensitivy to slights, and generalised aggression. Also, bad teeth.

But also just being broke wrecks your teeth. I remember hearing that when they're doing an autopsy on a John Doe, they can guess the deceased's income level from the teeth - lots of crowns? Rich. Heaps missing and rotted? Poor.

Maybe each $1,000 book he buys is a new tooth for him. Perhaps he's gradually filling his mouth with that old AD&D artifact, the Teeth of Dahlver-Nor. Will he get magic powers? Aside from being able to eat proper food instead of soft over-sauced American stuff, I mean.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 18, 2024, 05:50:51 PMpromiscuity and deviant sexual behaviour

This is a real kind of person and they keep making them. Fascinating.

Well it's understandable why a guy who can't get laid is so hating on someone who does get laid, with women, hot, more than once.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 05:57:33 PMmore than once.

lets not be hasty, i never said all that

My bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMSex is good!

Sssh. Don't tell.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMMy bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

sex is complicated

Quote from: Becami on December 18, 2024, 06:09:03 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMMy bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

sex is complicated

Ssh don't tell them.

Zak S is Starfish Hitler, casting his book shill brigade against theRPGsite as played by Kamen Rider.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 18, 2024, 06:16:31 PM

Zak S is Starfish Hitler, casting his book shill brigade against theRPGsite as played by Kamen Rider.

shills are paid to say nice things--we've been over this

these are just what people who aren't here all day are like

Ah I waited for Hitler reference.
Wot else is there eh?

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMMy bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

I really wish I could hear Jeff Bridges read this out as The Dude.
It has serious dude energy.

I only saw him in RIPD. Very underrated film. Should be a cult classic.

Quote from: Becami on December 18, 2024, 06:28:32 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMMy bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

I really wish I could hear Jeff Bridges read this out as The Dude.
It has serious dude energy.

You mean--coitus?

Could you please not bring in those French terms?

Quote from: Zak S on December 16, 2024, 02:47:57 AM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 15, 2024, 10:43:16 PMI have a question for Zak.
Why did so many people try to destroy you in the wake of the Mandy claims?

Ask Neil Gaiman, Kehinde Wiley and Ed Piskor.

He got eaten by his own leftist ideologues.
Being a white male whoremonger is the absolute bottom of the oppression pyramid.

And many of us on the right just laugh...

Did this thread just devolve into saying "LOL Zak has had sex you losers!" to a bunch of old, married guys?

Wtf..

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 18, 2024, 02:14:11 PMUse of the word 'community'

The community

At first, I thought you were just being disingenuous to justify Being Outraged and going on the offensive.  I have since realized that you are just really stupid and have very poor reading comprehension.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 18, 2024, 05:21:30 AMI have seen nothing from you or the people who are presumably here at your behest in this thread that even remotely resembles any attempt at community-building.

I am of being new to the online RPG communities and am having found many great conversations over the last few weeks of which I was not having previously.  I am only been living in the United States for fifteen months, and was speaking of D&D only to friends and people of my local cafe.  Now I am participating in community map building, having conversations of hardships of which I have been having in my life, and am meeting new people.  How is this not being of community-building?

All this talk of "building the community" by essentially paying people to post (to "pay" is to give something of value to someone in exchange for an action or service, so this whole book-for-posting thing is 100% a payment) just shows how delusional Zak and his goblins are.  You build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value.  This has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent.  Look at the content spammed across multiple threads by folks with under 20 post counts.

Anyone who has worked for a large corporation or organization will be familiar with HR-induced "professional development workshops " or the like.  Usually it involves watching or reading some corporate propaganda, and then posting on the company messag boards some kind of feedback (with specific criteria, like "You must.ask two questions about the topic of the workshop, and answer three questions your colleagues have asked").  If you read the responses that get posted from these workshops, they are the most generic, banal, and pointless comments, only done so that the employees can keep their jobs.

Congratulations, Zak, you've brought corporate HR bullshit to RPG message boards.  For every post that might have an iota of signal, there have been a dozen that are two-sentence generic comments that are nothing but noise.  Read them yourself.  Outside of emotion-laden testimonials extolling your 'virtues," the vast majority of the new posters since your letter have been perfunctory and generic.  Some community.

I understand why Pundit doesn't mind; the more eyes here mean more eyes on his products.  But the delusion that simply by paying people to post something to these message boards will inculcate some kind of community is laughable at best.  Quality beats quantity.  If you were capable of self-reflection, you'd be embarrassed at how sophomoric your idea was.  But luckily, you appear incapable of that...

QuoteYou build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value

And people do that. But they didn't all go "LETS MAIL IT TO THAT TROLL NAMED ELKMOTHER OR WHATEVER!!!"

QuoteThis has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent

What: in the thread where you personally lying is addressed? You find no value in your lie being called out ?

I am sure it comes as no surprise to anyone that-- to the liar being caught lying doesn't seem cool and good.

Again: if you think the main benefit of "community" appears ONLY where people are cleaning up after your mess you are not thinking straight. There are lots of things that constitute community activity that you not only don't know about--you didn't even think to ASK before making that judgment.

This has already been said in the thread, which means you can't read--or, worse, you can but chose to say some shit without reading.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 11:56:26 PM

QuoteYou build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value

And people do that. But they didn't all go "LETS MAIL IT TO THAT TROLL NAMED ELKMOTHER OR WHATEVER!!!"

QuoteThis has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent

What: in the thread where you personally lying is addressed? You find no value in your lie being called out ?

I am sure it comes as no surprise to anyone that-- to the liar being caught lying doesn't seem cool and good.

Again: if you think the main benefit of "community" appears ONLY where people are cleaning up after your mess you are not thinking straight. There are lots of things that constitute community activity that you not only don't know about--you didn't even think to ASK before making that judgment.

This has already been said in the thread, which means you can't read--or, worse, you can but chose to say some shit without reading.

STARFISH HITLER HAS GRACED US WITH HIS WISDOM!!

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 11:56:26 PM

QuoteYou build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value

And people do that. But they didn't all go "LETS MAIL IT TO THAT TROLL NAMED ELKMOTHER OR WHATEVER!!!"

QuoteThis has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent

What: in the thread where you personally lying is addressed? You find no value in your lie being called out ?

I am sure it comes as no surprise to anyone that-- to the liar being caught lying doesn't seem cool and good.

Again: if you think the main benefit of "community" appears ONLY where people are cleaning up after your mess you are not thinking straight. There are lots of things that constitute community activity that you not only don't know about--you didn't even think to ASK before making that judgment.

This has already been said in the thread, which means you can't read--or, worse, you can but chose to say some shit without reading.

Except I didn't lie, as I never mentioned you in the post you quoted.  You assumed it was an accusation, rather than a statement.   You spread misinformation about that post, and have refused to correct your misinformation.  If your stated goal is to reduce misinformation, you have already failed, as you've added to the amount of it here, rather than reduced it.  So you've failed at everything you have stated as your rationale for this stunt.  So what is the real motivation, or are you just this inept?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 19, 2024, 06:44:27 AMExcept I didn't lie,

Again (and I've said this before):

We disagree on the meaning of your comment on the first page of this thread.

We don't have to explain it here by typing, because literally anyone who can read this and cares can go back to the first page of the thread and decide for themselves whether they agree with me (you mischaracterized what I said as asking people to "say nice things") or you (you didn't do that and weren't referring to me or my text at all).

Your claim is that your take and actions are based on the premise that your interpretation of your comment on page 1 is correct.
My take and actions are based on the premise that my interpretation of your comment on page1 is correct.

We will not persuade one another and all the information we can provide on the subject to any reader is provided already. You do not have to keep typing.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 19, 2024, 06:44:27 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 11:56:26 PM

QuoteYou build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value

And people do that. But they didn't all go "LETS MAIL IT TO THAT TROLL NAMED ELKMOTHER OR WHATEVER!!!"

QuoteThis has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent

What: in the thread where you personally lying is addressed? You find no value in your lie being called out ?

I am sure it comes as no surprise to anyone that-- to the liar being caught lying doesn't seem cool and good.

Again: if you think the main benefit of "community" appears ONLY where people are cleaning up after your mess you are not thinking straight. There are lots of things that constitute community activity that you not only don't know about--you didn't even think to ASK before making that judgment.

This has already been said in the thread, which means you can't read--or, worse, you can but chose to say some shit without reading.

Except I didn't lie, as I never mentioned you in the post you quoted.  You assumed it was an accusation, rather than a statement.   You spread misinformation about that post, and have refused to correct your misinformation.  If your stated goal is to reduce misinformation, you have already failed, as you've added to the amount of it here, rather than reduced it.  So you've failed at everything you have stated as your rationale for this stunt.  So what is the real motivation, or are you just this inept?

His interpretation/opinion is proven fact in his addled mind

Yours is missinformation if it paints him on a bad light.

He's a leftard, his real motivation is power and control, to be able to censor and ban those he deems terribad scum.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 19, 2024, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 19, 2024, 06:44:27 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 11:56:26 PM

QuoteYou build a community with like-minded people sharing information of value

And people do that. But they didn't all go "LETS MAIL IT TO THAT TROLL NAMED ELKMOTHER OR WHATEVER!!!"

QuoteThis has been going on for a few days now, and the lack of value is apparent

What: in the thread where you personally lying is addressed? You find no value in your lie being called out ?

I am sure it comes as no surprise to anyone that-- to the liar being caught lying doesn't seem cool and good.

Again: if you think the main benefit of "community" appears ONLY where people are cleaning up after your mess you are not thinking straight. There are lots of things that constitute community activity that you not only don't know about--you didn't even think to ASK before making that judgment.

This has already been said in the thread, which means you can't read--or, worse, you can but chose to say some shit without reading.

Except I didn't lie, as I never mentioned you in the post you quoted.  You assumed it was an accusation, rather than a statement.   You spread misinformation about that post, and have refused to correct your misinformation.  If your stated goal is to reduce misinformation, you have already failed, as you've added to the amount of it here, rather than reduced it.  So you've failed at everything you have stated as your rationale for this stunt.  So what is the real motivation, or are you just this inept?

His interpretation/opinion is proven fact in his addled mind

Yours is missinformation if it paints him on a bad light.

He's a leftard, his real motivation is power and control, to be able to censor and ban those he deems terribad scum.

Incorrect.

The fact that comment is a claim about the content is accurate, regardless of whether it makes me look good or bad.

Eiracheface denying that doesn't open up a second, equally valid possibilty: that it is just a comment wholly unrelated.

However, nothing anyone could say here could make it plainer.

It's like if he said that its raining when its not: since anyone who can read this can walk outside so there is no point in arguing it.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 18, 2024, 02:16:30 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 16, 2024, 03:25:42 PMI see a human being who has done more good for the rpg industry by creating amazing products for it, winning awards for that, being absolutely shat on by a huge number of people who are apparently motivated by jealousy and by their appeasement to a toxic echo-chamber. Sock-puppets who are repeating the same stale claims which have long ago been debunked with evidence. Those same people ignoring the evidence and continue to shit on him.

He is responsible for his behaviour, you are responsible for yours. The toxicity is self-evident.

Meanwhile, it is Zaks books which are selling for $1000 each and not yours. That is how much value and respect people outside of the toxic hate mob have for him. Earlier on this thread you had people effectively funding the RPG industry at media and promotions level come in here to defend him by explaining that despite the allegations, what Zak was saying is actually true.

The sock puppets continue repeating the same debunked hatred regardless of that. It's not worth repeating the same cycle of the same words if trolls are simply ignoring it.

What debunked hatred is being repeated and where has it been debunked? You are just spouting whatever programming has been hastily poured into your tiny plastic mind before you are sent out to function as a human spam bot, and you have been told to repeat that everything has been debunked already in lieu of dealing with it. Your price for this wretched servitude is an rpg book.

I repeat, page 37 to 38, 11 of Zaks statements were found to be false.

Quote"The Court's Finding that Smith's February 13 facebook post contains False Statements, as identified above, does not end the inquiry. To qualify as libel, the statement must "expose [] [the plaintiff] [] to hatred, contempt, ridicule ,obliquy, or...cause [] [plaintiff] to be shunned or avoided, or...ha[ve] a tendency to injure plaintiff in his occupation." 

By the standards of the Superior Court of California, Zak has made false claims and the rest of these thread dwellers have not. Now there might be reasons for those false claims, but conveniently, these can be ignored, as Zak himself has stated repeatedly that spreading misinformation is the same as lying and liars should not be believed.

If you abide by Zaks moral code, you have to act according to it and hold him and yourselves accountable. If not it is fake nonsense, rules for thee but not for me, and we should treat you as an invasive species. 

Here is the lawsuit again, just so that it is crystal clear what I am quoting, and what I am saying. The lawsuit concerns defamation, it is clear that in one instance out of 8, Vivka Grey did indeed commit defamation. But something is not automatically true because it is not defamation, as the paragraph indicates.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0

Many people don't understand how legal language and court processes work, and that can cause confusion. In legal terms, the phrase "false claim" doesn't mean someone is lying. Instead, it means the court has decided that a specific point isn't relevant to the case and won't be considered. The terms "true" and "false" in this context are just tools to decide which facts the court will focus on, not a judgment about whether something is honest or truthful.

Courts don't deal with absolute truth—they operate based on rules and procedures to make decisions. It's frustrating to see people misunderstand these terms and use that misunderstanding to fuel personal agendas. When a court says something is "false," it only means the judge has ruled it doesn't belong in the case. It has nothing to do with whether it's honest or true in the broader sense outside of the courtroom.

Ah, a coherent response. Good job.

So, you will find that I have not accused Zak of lying. I only stated the following: That by legal defenition (here I separate it from absolute truth explicitly), he was the only person in this entire thread to have made 11 false claims, based on the judgement of the Superior Court of California on his 2019 facebook post (p. 37 and p.38). Zak responded that this was '100% false' after which he responded that he did not understand what I thought I was saying, which is all the more confusing and bizarrely evasive. It seems that you agree with me that I was correct.

I of course brought up the legal document, which may be found here (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0), and pointed at the relevant sections (p. 37 and p.38). You will also find a definition of what constitutes 'Falsity' on page 15. which does not seem to fully align with your own. He made several claims that were verifiably false, not merely inaccurate, by the standards of the court.

The first responses were bizarrely evasive, pointing to the verdict of the defamation court case (the distinction between falsehood and defamation is made on page 38), bringing up the settlement of Cam Banks (which is irrelevant) and referring to having 'skin in the game.' 

So my first statement: 'By legal standards, Zak is the only person in this thread that can be said to have made false claims' seems to be true. Falsehood does not mean lies. Of course Zak, as an ardent opponent of misinformation of all kinds, and who has often made the claim that not fact-checking is tantamount to lying, is now in the unfortunate position where he seems to be the only person that can legally be said to have not fact-checked and to have made false claims. 

So legally speaking, Zak is the only person in this thread to have made 11 false claims, as deemed by the Superior Court in California in his 2019 Facebook post.

 

Cam

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:37:55 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:26:53 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:18:21 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PMalotta gibberish

Look, if whatever you think you found when your uninformed ass cherry-picked out of that case that I won, nobody who had any skin in the game found anything because here's the next result:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)

Still not seeing any engagement with the actual content there. Maybe you can bring up you won the lawsuit next time? Maybe that will fool the audience just a tad longer?

This is very 2019 facebook post false claims making behavior.

Actual content?
There is no actual content. You (well, Skerples) cherry-picked something you claim is true that I did that was bad buried in the decision in the case that I won. It is not true--it is spin. If it were true I would be in jail or at least charged with something--even just perjury.

Anybody need clarity on whether it was real? There is clarity, because there was another case afterward, and the result was:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)
So that bats cleanup on however important you thought your bullshit was.

You seem to be confusing the statements of Cam Banks (Vivka Grey) with those you yourself made about Vivka Grey in the lawsuit, which may be viewed here. (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0) Whether or not Cam Banks has said anything false is irrelevant to whether or not, by legal standards, you can be said to have legally made false statements, which you did no less then 11 times in your 2019 facebook post, based on the evaluation of the Superior Court of California.

Do you concur that, by legal standards, you are the only person in this thread that can be said to have made false claims? And if so, if by legal standards you can be said to have spread misinformation, which you deem very serious, what do you think your punishment should be?

 

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 05:57:33 PMWell it's understandable why a guy who can't get laid is so hating on someone who does get laid, with women, hot, more than once.

What percentage of these "Hot women" would you say has earned a living by drinking piss?

Quote from: Becami on December 18, 2024, 06:09:03 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 06:00:22 PMMy bad, man. There's nothing wrong with having sex just once. Or more than once, either. Sex is good!

sex is complicated

I must concur. Given your repulsive trollish countenance, it is not unthinkable any such operation will involve tarp, tranquilizer darts, rubber tubing and is likely to be non-consensual for at least one of the participants.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 19, 2024, 01:08:39 PMSo legally speaking, Zak is the only person in this thread to have made 11 false claims, as deemed by the Superior Court in California in his 2019 Facebook post.

You went to all this trouble to try to sound official and didn't even realize I never made any Facebook post discussed in that court and the suit wasn't about a Facebook post by me.

You are just pulling all this out of your ass and have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 19, 2024, 01:13:44 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 18, 2024, 05:57:33 PMWell it's understandable why a guy who can't get laid is so hating on someone who does get laid, with women, hot, more than once.

What percentage of these "Hot women" would you say has earned a living by drinking piss?

None.

You are probably watching different porn than the rest of us, though.

Silly baboon, it's not women in porn, it's medieval doctors. See Horrible Histories for that.
God, the amount of piss and scat in that show...

Lol. I feel like there is a whole untapped market there though.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 19, 2024, 01:43:40 PMSilly baboon, it's not women in porn, it's medieval doctors. See Horrible Histories for that.
God, the amount of piss and scat in that show...

On a scale of 1-10, how sheltered would one be if they've never seen "Horrible Histories?" Asking for a friend.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 19, 2024, 01:43:40 PMSilly baboon, it's not women in porn, it's medieval doctors. See Horrible Histories for that.

Little known fact, the first porn actor was a knight in the court of Henry II, Sir Cum Stances, and the second was a Jewish knight name Sir Cum Cision.

Quote from: katiefol on December 19, 2024, 01:48:28 PMOn a scale of 1-10, how sheltered would one be if they've never seen "Horrible Histories?" Asking for a friend.

Depends on geography. In UK, I'd saaaay... 8 to 10. Worldwide, maybe a 2.

I had a joke about "answer cum sized" but I forgot how it came in the end.

Quote from: Zak S on December 19, 2024, 01:49:37 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 19, 2024, 01:43:40 PMSilly baboon, it's not women in porn, it's medieval doctors. See Horrible Histories for that.

Little known fact, the first porn actor was a knight in the court of Henry II, Sir Cum Stances, and the second was a Jewish knight name Sir Cum Cision.

#dirtydadjokes.

come on guys,...
or girls

Like there are other kinds

all other kinds are welcome.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 02:30:35 PM

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:21:31 PMI'm not feeling engaged by your marketing strategy of calling people stupid.

Intelligent people know we are intelligent. We feel no threat of being called stupid because we know it's not true. Someone who cannot recognise intelligence probably isn't.

This is like the conspiracy theorists talking about sheeple and how it's all obvious but I'm just not bright enough to grock how all their threads on the whiteboard work. I'm fascinated by this type of shite.

So speaking of shite and British TV shows...

i bought a world map and gave a dart to my partner and said -- throw this dart and where it lands that's where we're going. Turns out we're spending three weeks behind the fridge.

Isn't there a whole genre of porn about being stuck behind things?

If there isn't there bloody well should be one!

No, like I really think there is. cough, not that i would know.

There is one of being stuck in a hole, like: a girl bends over to get into a washing machine and then her ass is sticking out.

Quote from: katiefol on December 19, 2024, 02:08:07 PMi bought a world map and gave a dart to my partner and said -- throw this dart and where it lands that's where we're going. Turns out we're spending three weeks behind the fridge.

Isn't there a whole genre of porn about being stuck behind things?

Definitely 100% a trope, but more usually it's stuck inside or under things. Stuck under beds, in washing machines, etc.

Kind of interesting to think about the tropes in porn compared to tropes in movies or faerie tales and draw comparisons.

Oh yeah, getting stuck in things is very popular in faerie tales, not that I would know hm hm

So getting stuck in things is shared by porn and fairy tales. Can we just say that porn is contemporary erotic fairy tales? Same genre -- just a different lens? Which means that most of them should have a wizard with a giant wand.

Quote from: katiefol on December 19, 2024, 02:22:31 PMSo getting stuck in things is shared by porn and fairy tales. Can we just say that porn is contemporary erotic fairy tales? Same genre -- just a different lens? Which means that most of them should have a wizard with a giant wand.

Well fairy tales are often disguised cautionary tales for children about messing with the capricious upper-class-coded folk who secretly rule the world, so I think that's less like porn than it is like the urban legends and stupid documentaries people pass around about porn--like this whole "most women in porn make their living drinking piss" thing.

I knew there would be a way the Illuminati were called out.

And all this discussion of porn relates to the topic of RPG's how?

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 19, 2024, 03:14:10 PMAnd all this discussion of porn relates to the topic of RPG's how?

Welcome to the stupidity of "muh free speech:" if you insist on letting degenerates speak their mind, things will rapidly become a cesspool.

Zaks vision of a true RPG community has at last been attained. I for one am impressed.

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 19, 2024, 03:27:01 PMWelcome to the stupidity of "muh free speech:" if you insist on letting degenerates speak their mind, things will rapidly become a cesspool.

Make the thread so that nobody wants to go back anymore. It's a way of ending the thread without saying you want to end the thread.

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 19, 2024, 04:13:14 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 19, 2024, 03:27:01 PMWelcome to the stupidity of "muh free speech:" if you insist on letting degenerates speak their mind, things will rapidly become a cesspool.

Make the thread so that nobody wants to go back anymore. It's a way of ending the thread without saying you want to end the thread.

I thought his new cadre of followers were supposed to do something more interesting than provide porn related flack when he got pushed.

His followers share his interests and deviances.

Make the thread so that nobody wants to go back anymore. It's a way of ending the thread without saying you want to end the thread.
[/quote]

This reminds me of back when Red and her mean girls clique on TBP would talk about anal sex in any thread they didn't approve of to get it shut down.  This must be the community-building we have been hearing so much about.   

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 19, 2024, 03:14:10 PMAnd all this discussion of porn relates to the topic of RPG's how?

It doesn't at this point, and further short posts about porn with no content actually relevant to the topic will be considered attempted derailment. People who post that sort of thing will be banned from the thread.

I mean baby posters in a thread with someone who attracts a ton of attention and sometimes hate?  This thread should have an account age minimum or something, at least make them farm the accounts ahead of time.

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 19, 2024, 04:13:14 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 19, 2024, 03:27:01 PMWelcome to the stupidity of "muh free speech:" if you insist on letting degenerates speak their mind, things will rapidly become a cesspool.

Make the thread so that nobody wants to go back anymore. It's a way of ending the thread without saying you want to end the thread.

right. the thread is pretty much done anyway though, don't you think so? everybody got to make their case, to point a finger, to spew some bs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 19, 2024, 08:43:53 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 19, 2024, 03:14:10 PMAnd all this discussion of porn relates to the topic of RPG's how?

It doesn't at this point.

just close it, man. this horse is dead.

Ban them from the thread for derailing.  If they do it again in another thread, just ban them period.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 20, 2024, 01:50:18 AMBan them from the thread for derailing.  If they do it again in another thread, just ban them period.

That is theRPGsite policy. If I'm aware that a thread has gone wildly off-topic, particularly if it seems that some posters are trying to make it go off-topic on purpose, I issue a general warning as I just did. Anyone who breaks that rule is banned from further posting on the thread. If they post again, they get banned. If they engage in threadcrapping in some other thread, they get banned.

Generically talking about porn is obviously not the subject of this thread. Talking about Zak having done porn in relation to how that affects him in the RPG hobby could theoretically be topical.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 19, 2024, 06:41:54 PMHis followers share his interests and deviances.

Makes for a great "community," doesn't it?  Look at all the value added by this discussion.

Even if you took him at his word, this entire concept is so junevile and naive that a self-aware person would look back and cringe that they had thought of it.  But I guess it gives him more opportunities to spread misinformation...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 20, 2024, 06:40:34 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on December 19, 2024, 06:41:54 PMHis followers share his interests and deviances.

Makes for a great "community," doesn't it?  Look at all the value added by this discussion.

Even if you took him at his word, this entire concept is so junevile and naive that a self-aware person would look back and cringe that they had thought of it.  But I guess it gives him more opportunities to spread misinformation...

Since I've never done that, this makes no sense

But we have been over this before:

Quote from: Zak S on December 19, 2024, 07:11:18 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 19, 2024, 06:44:27 AMExcept I didn't lie,

Again (and I've said this before):

We disagree on the meaning of your comment on the first page of this thread.

We don't have to explain it here by typing, because literally anyone who can read this and cares can go back to the first page of the thread and decide for themselves whether they agree with me (you mischaracterized what I said as asking people to "say nice things") or you (you didn't do that and weren't referring to me or my text at all).

Your claim is that your take and actions are based on the premise that your interpretation of your comment on page 1 is correct.
My take and actions are based on the premise that my interpretation of your comment on page1 is correct.

We will not persuade one another and all the information we can provide on the subject to any reader is provided already. You do not have to keep typing.

Quote from: Zak S on December 20, 2024, 09:11:20 AMBut we have been over this before:

So, I will explain it to you, Mathesar, like I would a child.

You claimed that people were spreading misinformation about your letter, and you used my post as an example.  You said:

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Your defense of yourself was that you never actually said that, and that it was misinformation to draw that conclusion.  You asserted the words you stated were the totality of your meaning:

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:48:36 PMThe text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

Well, this is the totality of my statement

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 13, 2024, 09:04:09 PMImagine needing to bribe people to say nice things about you...

Nowhere are you mentioned.

So, if your defense of your letter is that it does not say anything not expressly written there, you cannot logically criticize my statement for anything it does not expressly say.  Appealing to the context of my post as demonstrative invalidates your objection to others examining the context of your letter.  You are demanding a different standard when reading your writing than that when you read others.  This is not "disagreeing" with what my post meant.  It is you demanding that only your exact words count, while asserting the privilege of assuming what everyone else's words mean.  It is logically flawed, and shows that your evaluations cannot be trusted.  You are, by your own actions, unqualified to judge "misinformation," as you are incapable from articulating a consistent definition that doesn't depend on your arbitrary judgements (the same thing you accused Pundit of with the rules of this place).

Your mouth has written cheques your intellect can't cash.  Articulate the objective standard that applies to both your words and mine, or admit you are subjectively defining "misinformation."  At which point, as per that admission, we can treat your evaluations of such as derisively as is obviously warranted...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 20, 2024, 04:02:23 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 20, 2024, 09:11:20 AMBut we have been over this before:

So, I will explain it to you, Mathesar, like I would a child.

You claimed that people were spreading misinformation about your letter, and you used my post as an example.  You said:

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMAgain, this started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Your defense of yourself was that you never actually said that, and that it was misinformation to draw that conclusion.  You asserted the words you stated were the totality of your meaning:

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:48:36 PMThe text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

Well, this is the totality of my statement

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 13, 2024, 09:04:09 PMImagine needing to bribe people to say nice things about you...

Nowhere are you mentioned.

So, if your defense of your letter is that it does not say anything not expressly written there, you cannot logically criticize my statement for anything it does not expressly say.  Appealing to the context of my post as demonstrative invalidates your objection to others examining the context of your letter.  You are demanding a different standard when reading your writing than that when you read others.  This is not "disagreeing" with what my post meant.  It is you demanding that only your exact words count, while asserting the privilege of assuming what everyone else's words mean.  It is logically flawed, and shows that your evaluations cannot be trusted.  You are, by your own actions, unqualified to judge "misinformation," as you are incapable from articulating a consistent definition that doesn't depend on your arbitrary judgements (the same thing you accused Pundit of with the rules of this place).

Your mouth has written cheques your intellect can't cash.  Articulate the objective standard that applies to both your words and mine, or admit you are subjectively defining "misinformation."  At which point, as per that admission, we can treat your evaluations of such as derisively as is obviously warranted...

You missed an obvious thing:

My text is a complete business proposal "Hi people: if you do x, I do y" like a contract, it lays out terms.

Your text is one comment in a longer conversation initiated by pundit about my agreement.

If, for example, you say "Uh, that one" in a conversation, it doesn't follow that you are referring to nobody and nothing. The rest of the conversation is necessary for context.

And, again:

Anyone reading this can go back to your comment and decide for themselves.

We don't need to repeat, over and over, the fact that you claim your comment isn't about my text and I do.

We will never convince each other and anyone who needs to decide who is right (which I suspect is almost nobody) can go read page 1 themself.

You can stop typing.

Quote from: Zak S on December 20, 2024, 04:20:56 PMYou can stop typing.

You first.

Serious question: if we were to create a stat in a hypothetical RPG called "Phaggotry" and quantify it on a scale of 1-10, would Zak get an 11?

Quote from: Brad on December 20, 2024, 05:07:53 PMSerious question: if we were to create a stat in a hypothetical RPG called "Phaggotry" and quantify it on a scale of 1-10, would Zak get an 11?

You did see what I posted on this very page, right?

Don't post on this thread again.

Quote from: Zak S on December 19, 2024, 01:19:02 PMZak noises

Since Zak is refusing to engage with anything that is being said I will address my statements to the general public.

~Misinformation
Many interactions with Zak are based around discussions of what is and is not true, fact-checking, misinformation etc. Zak claims that his only purpose here is to fact-check, and we are supposed to believe that his passion for truth is so great that he considers even incorrect statements lying because the person should have 'fact-checked' them. If this were true then we can expect him to aplly this standard to himself and his cult.
Instead we see that any attempts to hold Zak or his goons accountable face misdirection, evasion, dismissive responses, equivocation and similar manipulative tactics. Indeed, his cronies seem almost entirely unable to engage with anything that is being said at a dialectic level, simply providing rote responses.
Any objective evaluation of the facts as they are will conclude that Zak is vastly less credible then anyone on this forum, because he is the only person to have been caught making false claims by the California Superior Court of law (p 37. and p. 38 here (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0)).
We might make arguments that others have spread misinformation, but these are not fortified by a rigorous process of discovery. I repeat, of anyone here, we are MOST certain Zak has spread misinformation in his 2019 blog post (oopsie Zak, thats right, you didn't post it on facebook, you posted it on a blog, silly me! guess that 'debunks' the 'argument').

So what is the motive if its not truth?

~Sexual deviancy.
Zak exhibits a host of narcissitic personality traits, ranging from total inability to admit wrong, a sense of grandiosity, entitlement,  manipulativeness, and a lack of empathy. Narcissists suffer from an underdeveloped amygdala, and as a have a constant craving for attention and validation as a result (ref. narcissistic supply).
On the one hand, his host of brain-washed sycophants provides him with plenty of hyperbolic praise and an ability to feel superior. But there is an alternative source of narcissitic supply: If another person can be caught in an inaccuracy, or even convinced that an inaccuracy exists even if it does not, this allows Zak to engage in a semi-erotic scenario where he is perceived as righteous and can then rain condemnation down upon the unfortunate.
This has nothing to do with who is right or wrong, it is simply a pervert, trying to get his fix by clever but rudimentary language manipulation. It is important that anyone engaging in this thread understands the essential falseness of any such interaction. You are not really talking with a human being.  This is just a junkie trying to score, using the medium of language. This also explains the bizarre word games when the pervert is confronted with an inadequacy. Any admission of weakness, no matter how minor, ruins the grandiose fantasy, and causes massive stress.   


~Cam Banks
I, nor anyone else knows what Cam Banks has to do with the fact Zak made 11 false statements as determined by the California Superior Court on his 2019 blogpost. Perhaps this single victory over Cam Banks is of especial importance to him. Perhaps for Zak, when confronted with peers of his agegroup, most of whom have children, lovely mentally-stable wives that have not accused them of abuse, flourishing careers, houses that they own, a retirement plan and mouths full of even, pearly white teeth, the thought of defeating Cam Banks is a source of great pride.
We must imagine that he gazes at them from his crack den, stinking of rotting food, piss, cigarettes and other people's cum, looking at the worn-out, battered slag lying comatose on a stained matress in the middle of the room, surrounded by empty bottles of painkillers and sleeping pills, her breath reeking of cheap red wine and Jamal's buttcrack, and then at last to the signed affidavits framed on the wall. Is the defeat of Cam Banks and Ettin the last thing he will think of before he passes away, alone in some gutter or trash heap?

~Lawsuits
Whenever the lawsuits are mentioned the zak cultists claim any charge has been 'debunked' and any potentially embarassing fact (and there are many) has been 'nitpicked.' But they only use the words, they never show what has been debunked, what claim has been made, what has been nitpicked and what context is needed to get a clearer picture. 
Skerples, who has made the only collection of Zak lawsuits on the internet (https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2022/03/on-zak-sabbath-smith-lawsuits.html), is an obvious target for ire. While he has a clear anti-Zak bias, the pieces he links to do seem to be up to date and genuine, and any more recent documentation that would create a different narrative could simply be displayed by Zak himself, instantly discrediting the attempt at collation.
This does not happen. Instead we are told the information has been 'nitpicked' and 'debunked' because 'Zak Won' when the issue of Zak winning or not is not the only issue under discussion. This type of argumentation is simple propaganda. It is not desired that people look into it.

Yet the contrast between the collated documentation and the narrative being put out by the Zak cult is irreconcilable and requires closer investigation. So far, only one side is attempting to provide a complete receipt.

~Pornography
The consumption of Pornography can at best be viewed as similar to an opioid, with a host of undesirable effects on the brain, libido, social life, sense of beauty and relationships of the consoomer. The stimula of porn is a pale imitation of that gained by the sex act and is thus inherently for consumption by losers who do not have access to the real thing.
Porn performers are disproportionally victims or perpetrators of sex crimes and suffer from increased rates of mental illness, suicide, drug-abuse, diseases, injuries resulting from their unhealthy lifestyle, and generally have trouble forming normal relationships. Many regret their career choice. Philosophically, what is perhaps the greatest expression of intimacy between two individuals is now turned into a transactional act for vulgar entertainment. The stigma against this business and its perpetrators is not only correct, it should be stronger.

~Conclusion
I think it would be helpful to remind Zak that if he deems to judge others, he should abide by the standards he seeks to impose. For this reason I have created a light-hearted meme so he may be occasionally reminded.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/76/LNovQk.jpg)

The moral of this thread, and many others like this (beyond Kyle's sensible points (https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/is-this-brigade-instruction-real-zak/msg1296963/#msg1296963)), is that it was a terrible mistake letting theatre kids control anything in the hobby, and once the consequences of letting them do so became clear in the 1990s, it was an even worse mistake letting them back in once old-school gaming took off. Learn your lessons: theatre kids bring drama, mental illness, and terrible ideologies. Keep them out of your hobbies.

Quote from: BlueWave on December 21, 2024, 05:31:23 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 19, 2024, 01:19:02 PMZak noises

Since Zak is refusing to engage with anything that is being said I will address my statements to the general public.

I've engaged with everything and people keep acting irritated that I do, so that's a lie.

Quotehe is the only person to have been caught making false claims

A claim by a person that something's false is not evidence it is false.

A taped confession is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJAJNbF2Tg

QuoteZak exhibits a host of narcissitic personality traits,

A non-shrink who can't even spell narcissistic is disagreeing with actual shrinks.

QuoteI, nor anyone else knows what Cam Banks has to do with the fact Zak made 11 false statements as determined by the California Superior Court on his 2019 blogpost.

If you do not know then I will repeat again:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYuy35SO9gn0aZEt2oPhniu3iRTs34p983IjvYvjCDrjlDby-rgygf2vvEDFrjQpaPXGKV0uI9EJ7bnmhemWi1bwJ1CTmGS4JZ6zPW7v5qcwQUP37EFOotc1koHHjZoNI5Iu8i4NYUqkFLuTnd0XX9LNI8W32sbjek2p6SbCQIIRLeszu358CwMGbt7Q/s978/cam_banks_apology_screenshot.png)

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/1832ba95d1fe19c0aa54e03027a01da2/273f75cf5ab2562a-11/s1280x1920/b0e7a80489c453f66135ed23f3ea13d5c95dbfd3.png)

So, whatever you think is "evidence"--isn't.

Quote~Pornography
The consumption of Pornography can at best be viewed as similar to an opioid, with a host of undesirable effects on the brain, libido, social life, sense of beauty and relationships of the consoomer...The stigma against this business and its perpetrators is not only correct, it should be stronger.

Bringing this in as if it meant something completely invalidates anything you could say. Also "consumer" has a "u".

It's a hobby, people come to it because it's what it is, a niche where you don't have to be strictly educated or qualified for it. Which maybe is not a good thing, but that's how it is.

Quote from: Melan on December 22, 2024, 05:11:32 AMthat it was a terrible mistake letting theatre kids control anything in the hobby, and once the consequences of letting them do so became clear in the 1990s, it was an even worse mistake letting them back in once old-school gaming took off. Learn your lessons: theatre kids bring drama, mental illness, and terrible ideologies. Keep them out of your hobbies.

Theatre kids like who? Somehow I never made the connection between 90s hobby and theatre.

Quote from: Melan on December 22, 2024, 05:11:32 AMtheatre kids

This is a guy who definitely has no idea who he's talking about.

I'm still interested. Maybe not in the ideologies part, but the theatre bit I'd like to know.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMThis started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:48:36 PMThe text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

The title of this thread asks a question, specifically to Zak.
In this quote, Zak answers that question.
Nothing more is relevant here.
The thread can die.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 22, 2024, 06:14:07 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 12:29:33 PMThis started because the front page has people falsely claiming people who want the book have to "say nice things about me" or the work.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:48:36 PMThe text doesn't say anyone's supposed to make any specific comments. The entire "contract" with people who want the book is laid out in what you posted and that is clear in the post. There isn't any clause saying "you will receive further instructions on what to say"

The title of this thread asks a question, specifically to Zak.
In this quote, Zak answers that question.
Nothing more is relevant here.
The thread can die.

Woah!  A newb with <60 posts who apparently joined just to verbally fellate Zak has now declared the thread to be over.  Funny, I thought Pundit ran this message board.  When he's bored with the commentary, I'm sure he'll close it (or just let it fade).  As long as the thread continues to spawn on-topic posts, he'll probably leave it open (and whether or not Zak is believable in his assertions or qualified to judge misinformation both seem to be relevant to the original topic).  It's his site.

So, opinion noted (and discarded)...

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about porn because it was "off topic."

Anyway, I am all for someone building a community of people that are open minded and make the scene better---rather having it filled with misinformation. Zak's work has won awards. That's a fact. He has a new book that people are paying $1000 for. That's a fact. He seems to be engaging in discussion here and answering questions. That's a fact. He's prevailed in his court cases. That's fact. The new book looks great!

 

I still didn't find a theatre connection while waiting for a reply to my question - all I found was that Gary, apparently, was the coproducer on the D&D cartoon... which is cool, I guess... but too far of a connection - Frank Welker was in that one, and he hangs out with some actors who play D&D these days, really seems far from "letting them control the hobby".

When people claim Zak Smith argues in bad faith, this is exactly what they're talking about. So let's avoid the personal insults and accusations and focus on his rhetoric.

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:53:25 AM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 11:41:17 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 15, 2024, 11:25:02 AMYou took money for work and then refused to deliver.  You confirmed that you did this here in another thread.  Just because the victim in this issue chose not to pursue you over your breach of contract, you are not absolved of it. 

He (Alex Macris) did a bad thing, I chose to stop working with him. On moral and ethical grounds--he platformed a transphobic guy and I told him I didn't want to work with him any more.

You had the moral and ethical responsibility to return money you were paid if you chose to withdraw from the contract.

Apparently it's acceptable to breach a contract if the other party does something you consider immoral or takes no action opposing it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 01:53:05 PM

Quote from: Garry G on December 15, 2024, 01:47:41 PMI'm clearly not going to buy it as the person trying to sell it to me has just called me stupid.

It's not for sale, dude.

Like: you can't buy it (unless you drop 1000$ which I didn't think you would)

Apparently offering a book in exchange for $1000 is not selling it.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks on December 15, 2024, 05:04:10 PMPundit didn't fucking claim that you said people had to say nice things about whatever work you shit out, you fucking buffoon. He was pointing out that by engaging in this kind of idiocy, people are going to assume that whenever someone says something positive about your shit they're doing it because they're sucking up to you and want free shit.

As the text contains no transaction re: the exchange of "saying nice things" for "free shit" that is inaccurate and Pundit was negligent at best.

Apparently he doesn't consider trading goods and services to be transactional.

Quote from: Zak S on December 20, 2024, 04:20:56 PMMy text is a complete business proposal "Hi people: if you do x, I do y" like a contract, it lays out terms.

Apparently he considers it like a contract, which is transactional.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:09:10 PMPlus that's clearly how people construed what he said.

Apparently he now speaks for everyone and their interpretation is what determines the truth of a statement.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:09:10 PMPlus he used the word "brigading" which is inaccurate. Joining a website (whether you are urged to or not) and posting whatever you want on whatever topic is not brigading.

Apparently he forgot the part about encouraging people to take specific actions on forums he's banned on, literally for exactly these kinds of actions.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:18:38 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:14:05 PMI did not say that "people who want the book have to say nice things about you or the work".

What I said was that people who now say nice things will be under a shadow of doubt by others as to whether they are doing it under compulsion of some offer.

If this is what you are claiming your post meant then this is what you are claiming your post meant.

My claim about what your post meant is different.

Apparently personal interpretation triumphs the writer's intent even after clarification.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 06:18:50 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 06:11:19 PMIf they repeatedly intentionally derail threads as a hostile action

Vague.

Apparently he's confused by the lack of definitions.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 15, 2024, 07:25:52 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 07:01:45 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 15, 2024, 06:38:14 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 06:18:50 PMAnd none of this has to do with misinformation, the biggest problem.

The best way to solve this problem is to not be part of it yourself.  So, stop misinforming people as to what my post said.  Which I note you haven't corrected, so you must be comfortable with inaccuracies when they are committed by you...

We disagree about the content of your post.

No, you are misrepresenting the content of my post, because you made an error (and are apparently incapable of admitting so).  You were not mentioned in my post.  This is not an "interpretation;" it is a fact.  This dissembling on your part invalidates your entire stated purpose here of "correcting misinformation," since you are unwilling to admit when you have been the purveyor of it.

Apparently it's not misrepresentation as long as you disagree with the content of a post.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 01:18:21 PM

Quote from: BlueWave on December 18, 2024, 01:11:30 PMI repeat, page 37 to 38, 11 of Zaks statements were found to be false.

Quote"The Court's Finding that Smith's February 13 facebook post contains False Statements, as identified above, does not end the inquiry. To qualify as libel, the statement must "expose [] [the plaintiff] [] to hatred, contempt, ridicule ,obliquy, or...cause [] [plaintiff] to be shunned or avoided, or...ha[ve] a tendency to injure plaintiff in his occupation."

By the standards of the Superior Court of California, Zak has made false claims and the rest of these thread dwellers have not. Now there might be reasons for those false claims, but conveniently, these can be ignored, as Zak himself has stated repeatedly that spreading misinformation is the same as lying and liars should not be believed.

If you abide by Zaks moral code, you have to act according to it and hold him and yourselves accountable. If not it is fake nonsense, rules for thee but not for me, and we should treat you as an invasive species. 

Here is the lawsuit again, just so that it is crystal clear what I am quoting, and what I am saying. The lawsuit concerns defamation, it is clear that in one instance out of 8, Vivka Grey did indeed commit defamation. But something is not automatically true because it is not defamation, as the paragraph indicates.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnjjavkgiyken3wfu8vui/1936638092-1-43.pdf?rlkey=em24q9sa0tnhvhuuh2o2qyfgp&e=1&dl=0

Look, if whatever you think you found when your uninformed ass cherry-picked out of that case that I won, nobody who had any skin in the game found anything

Apparently it's OK to make false claims as long as you win and nobody cares.

In conclusion, his 'arguments' consist entirely of moving goalposts, vague definitions, lies by omission, and personal opinions. As for his goblins...

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 18, 2024, 02:16:30 PMMany people don't understand how legal language and court processes work, and that can cause confusion. In legal terms, the phrase "false claim" doesn't mean someone is lying. Instead, it means the court has decided that a specific point isn't relevant to the case and won't be considered. The terms "true" and "false" in this context are just tools to decide which facts the court will focus on, not a judgment about whether something is honest or truthful.

As someone familiar with legal language I can conclusively say you're full of shit. Also who said making false claims was tantamount to lying?

Oh riiight.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 16, 2024, 03:25:42 PMMeanwhile, it is Zaks books which are selling for $1000 each and not yours.

Uh oh. I wonder how long it will take Zak to correct this misinformation.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 18, 2024, 05:23:52 PMSometimes people just want the negative attention because it is at least some attention. They don't know any other way to get it than to try to provoke people. All the trolls behave the same way. It's so predictable and so boring

The irony burns with the light of a thousand suns.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 22, 2024, 08:49:29 PMWhen people claim Zak Smith argues in bad faith, this is exactly what they're talking about. So let's avoid the personal insults and accusations and focus on his rhetoric.

You just personally insulted me.

QuoteApparently it's acceptable to breach a contract if the other party does something you consider immoral or takes no action opposing it.

Depends on the action and the contract but, most importantly, Macrs did NOT respond "Do not break our contract, this causes x problem, lets' try to resolve this in another way"

He responded "Oh well"

It's fine to break a contract if the person agrees to.

QuoteApparently offering a book in exchange for $1000 is not selling it.

Again: the people who'd be exposed by my fans talking about it would not be the people who'd pay 1000$. Those ppl are from the initial mailing list.

QuoteApparently he doesn't consider trading goods and services to be transactional.

There was nothing about "saying nice things"--anything else is beside the point.

QuoteApparently he now speaks for everyone and their interpretation is what determines the truth of a statement.

I said "people" not all people.

If you go people have been to Disneyland the implication is not "all people".

QuoteApparently he forgot the part about encouraging people to take specific actions on forums he's banned on, literally for exactly these kinds of actions.

"specific actions" does not = brigading.

People ask others to take "specific actions" constantly.

QuoteApparently personal interpretation triumphs the writer's intent even after clarification.

You're falsely assuming the writer is being honest about their intent.

QuoteApparently he's confused by the lack of definitions.

Pointing out a bad actor's intentional failure of clarity does not equal confusion.

QuoteApparently it's not misrepresentation as long as you disagree with the content of a post.

Again for the 5th time:

Anyone reading who needs to know (almost no-one) can turn to page 1 and read the comment.

QuoteApparently it's OK to make false claims as long as you win and nobody cares.

I made no false claims, the fact someone said they were false isn't relevant.

Yawn.
No, really, it's all very interesting. Especially that bit where you explain how reading between the lines of a court case is somehow relevant to "join the jolly RPGsite community, get a big RPG book" situation that we're looking at.
(If you haven't gotten to that bit yet, then we're all looking forward to finally hearing it)
Also I think Zak accidentally invented videogame microtransactions, only it's not that micro. If you know what I'm trying to say.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 22, 2024, 08:49:29 PMApparently it's acceptable to breach a contract if the other party does something you consider immoral or takes no action opposing it.

I might buy this as a principled stance if he had refused to do the work and returned the money he was paid.  That he refused to do the work and kept the money makes me skeptical.  This gives me the impression that his moral outrage was a pretense to not do the work he had been paid for while still keeping the payment.  I certainly wouldn't enter into any sort of business arrangement with him after that.   

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 23, 2024, 05:15:58 AM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on December 22, 2024, 08:49:29 PMApparently it's acceptable to breach a contract if the other party does something you consider immoral or takes no action opposing it.

I might buy this as a principled stance if he had refused to do the work and returned the money he was paid.  That he refused to do the work and kept the money makes me skeptical.  This gives me the impression that his moral outrage was a pretense to not do the work he had been paid for while still keeping the payment.  I certainly wouldn't enter into any sort of business arrangement with him after that.   

My game group included a trans person at that time (and still does)-one of my best friends, it would have been absolutely impossible to be like "Oh yeah, I am continuing to work with this company after what they did".

As for the money: I already talked about how Alex had not played fair in previous discussions over money however, him saying "Oh well" in response to me quitting meant it's a non-issue.

But, yeah: if your company abruptly adopts hate-group politics in the middle of our association then I will get out of that association and if you volunteer to let me do that without paying you I will take that deal.

I have said all of these things several times though on this site so raising issues that are this easily addressed that way is redundant.

If you gave money to someone you know and you want the money back, it's easy to make noise about it. If you don't want to put on your big boy pants and make noise, eh, it's your dollar and you decide how badly you want it. It's a dog-eat-dog economy but it works.

Quote from: Zak S on December 18, 2024, 10:53:38 AMOf course they do. Nerds distrust anything novel.

...

-Most people think if a creator is posting it's mainly because they want someone to buy their RPG material

-Most people think that the RPG material is their source of income--or that they want it to be.

-Most people think that making the RPG material is the creative job they want to have.

As someone whose stated purpose is to "fact check" and stop the spread of misinformation, certainly you can provide the evidence to justify these sweeping generalized statements. There's no way you'd just make up assumptions without the justifiable due diligence. I'm sure the studies done to reach these conclusions would be of great interest.

Reading through this thread, which does it really need to keep going?

Here's my take:

1. People not directly involved in discussions over RPG contracted work have little to add to this convo and any info they add is likely misinformation based on assumptions. So many people on here are making gross assumptions, having opinions about it -- and then spreading that opinion. Opinion isn't fact.

Zak seems to be pointing this out and getting slack for it---- which is strange --- that strangers are fighting over facts of conversations/or decisions/or game groups -- or anything else that they weren't involved in or privy to.

Zak's quote above about "nerds distrusting anything novel" -- is being proven in. real. time. on. this. thread.

I don't know about everyone buuut I'm a nerd and I have a hard time trusting novel stuff, so yeah

lol. me too.

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 12:54:49 PMZak's quote above about "nerds distrusting anything novel" -- is being proven in. real. time. on. this. thread.

No, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Quote, certainly you can provide the evidence to justify these sweeping generalized statements

Ok, here are the incidents that made me come this this conclusion:

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 11:19:05 AMOf course they do. Nerds distrust anything novel.

I began my blog in 2009. Literally any time I announced a project or idea at odds with the usual practice, the nerds reacted with distrust. When a thing turned out to work, later, they didn't then go "Well I'll be darned, so sorry" they just pretended they never said anything of the sort.

D&D with Pornstars blog: "Oh that can't be real", "They'll hate it", "Girls can't play D&D"

Show where people watch people playing D&D: "Why would anyone watch other people play D&D?"

Working with James: "Oh James is publishing the D&D w/pornstars guy and Geoffrey from Carcosa, he has doomed his publishing empire, he's just courting controversy"

RPG book based on Lewis Carroll "Gygax already did this, it won't work, no-one will like it"

Playing RPGs over Zoom "No-one will enjoy that"

James having a pencil and dice in his Grindhouse Box Set "What the fuck is there a pencil for?"

Ideas I proposed on my blog to WOTC: "Oh WOTC will never listen to you"

Paying a percentage of sales instead of a flat rate: "There's not enough money in RPGs to make that viable"

My proposal for this book "Nobody's going to do all that stuff to get that book" "Nobody would pay 1000$ for that book"

5th Edition D&D itself "It'll never work"

OSR products being nominated for awards and that resulting in those products making money and the creators going pro "Oh awards don't matter"

See also: BadApple below ascribing ideas at odds with their own to "substance abuse".

In fact, there are several RPG word trolls whose entire schtick is to take any news of anything that sticks out or looks like a tall poppy and shit on it and then pretend they didn't after it's successful

Quote-Most people think if a creator is posting it's mainly because they want someone to buy their RPG material

Every time someone would lie on the internet and  someone would correct it, one common response was "Oh they must have a book coming out" rather than the Occam's Razor position that a bunch of people who talk on the internet all the time would quite naturally note when their idea was at variance with someone else's.

When Mark Diaz Truman asked his fellow storygamers to stop acting like paranoid psychopaths toward people outside their game scene, there were those that reacted that he must have a project coming out.

One of the original inciting incendents for all this online hate falls into this category: a pair of pearl-clutchy gamers attacked the women in my group for being in Maxim, I said they had no proof this caused any problem at all, they then claimed later I simply said this to (somehow?) drive traffic to my RPG business.

Literally any time I have seen any game designer in any way came to anyone's attention who isn't in their normal online circle for any reason, some nerd would claim it was "self-promotion" rather than just talking liek we all do all the time.

Quote-Most people think that the RPG material is their source of income--or that they want it to be.

Quote-Most people think that making the RPG material is the creative job they want to have.

Since all this began I have seen dozens of comments to the effect that anything I do is about angling for some money-making position in RPGs despite the fact it's never been a secret that I'm a painter or what the prices of my paintings are.

Incidental details of my work or lawsuits are explained in terms of trying to court this or that RPG audience.

This essay, where I am critical of the entire online RPG discourse, including Dennis Dettwiller (who I do not like and who does not like me)
 https://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2021/05/gamers-punching-themselves-in-face.html was explained by one gamer as me trying to get a job with Dennis Detwiller.

Truly there are many nerds who simply cannot conceive of the idea of someone doing something they themselves would not simply because it seems like a good idea at the time or the right thing to do.

Most nerds? No idea: that would require research I cannot do.

Is there always and fairly reliably a nerd on the spot to offer some preposterous interpretation of anything that is unusual that catched their attention? Especially if it catches their attention unwillingly? In my experience: yes. This happens basically every time.

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about. 

Like any of you noobs would know what this forum is like from this thread or the week that you've been here.  Any push back that Zak gets here is far more restrained than other platforms and generally on things that he brings up here or has done in public. 

He's been here for years and has had more than one ongoing disagreement.  He's not a hypothetical non person being talked about but a forum member that gets into verbal sparring matches.  No one is calling for bad things to happen to him or for him to be silenced.  There are people he's developed a bit of a contentious relationship with though so that will come out.

A lot of what is taken as misunderstandings are in fact how people have taken Zak's own words over time here.  He's his own worst enemy sometimes.  He's said a few things in this thread that make me think he's making judgements on how things work and how things are valued through a haze of substance abuse.

As far as his stuff, I've seen some of it over the years and the guy does have talent.  IMO, He shines best when he has a collaborator that tempers him a bit; The Blue Medusa is a good example.  His solo works seem to me to be less stellar than they could be.

If you are a fan of his and his works, then by all means you are welcome here.  But the same freedom to laud him that you're give is also given to his critics.

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

The post in the OP looks a lot like brigading instructions that have leaked in the past from incidents that have been verified.  It is fully legitimate to examine things and call things into question.  Earned or not, Zak doesn't have the strongest reputation so it shouldn't be surprising that there would be skeptical opinions expressed.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 01:40:31 PM

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

The post in the OP looks a lot like brigading instructions that have leaked in the past from incidents that have been verified.  It is fully legitimate to examine things and call things into question.  Earned or not, Zak doesn't have the strongest reputation so it shouldn't be surprising that there would be skeptical opinions expressed.

Is/ought fallacy.

It is normal and expected on the internet to accuse without proof. It doesn't make it right.

I'm saying the behavior is shitty, not unexpected.

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

So it would be irony for Zak to be doing the same thing. Spreading misinformation by making uninformed generalizations about a population. Since Zak is very strongly opposed to such things, obviously he has access to some comprehensive studies that inform those statements, otherwise they'd just be an example of, well, ignorant prejudice. I look forward to seeing his proof.

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 01:45:05 PM

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

So it would be irony for Zak to be doing the same thing. Spreading misinformation by making uninformed generalizations about a population. Since Zak is very strongly opposed to such things, obviously he has access to some comprehensive studies that inform those statements, otherwise they'd just be an example of, well, ignorant prejudice. I look forward to seeing his proof.

You'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

There's probably some article or other about Hasbro or some other big game bro estimating how thrilled people are to get their new stuff. If reddit is any indication, people are usually hating on new game stuff.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:24:12 PMOk, here are the incidents that made me come this this conclusion:

A scattered handful of incidents interacting with less than .0000000000000000000000001% of the population that could be justifiably be considered "nerds", let alone the statements about "most people" which opens it up to the entire population of the planet is the basis for your conclusions?

That is not logical or factual reasoning. That's the anti-intellectual approach that informs biases, prejudices, sexism, misogyny and racism.

A person's personal experiences are too severely limited in scope to base any assumptions about millions (let alone billions) of people.

Lol yeah dude, that's totally racist approach. 1000%

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 01:51:35 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:24:12 PMOk, here are the incidents that made me come this this conclusion:

A scattered handful of incidents interacting with less than .0000000000000000000000001% of the population that could be justifiably be considered "nerds", let alone the statements about "most people" which opens it up to the entire population of the planet is the basis for your conclusions?

Repeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:42:22 PM

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 01:40:31 PM

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:28:21 PM

QuoteNo, the population of this forum,let alone the only dozen or so people participating in this thread, does not constitute a significant enough fraction of a percentage point to make an informed assumption let alone anything resembling what could be called proof.

Exactly. People here who spread un-informed assumptions (that Zak is brigading, which is false), without proof ---- seems to be exactly what the *main* argument in this thread is about.

The post in the OP looks a lot like brigading instructions that have leaked in the past from incidents that have been verified.  It is fully legitimate to examine things and call things into question.  Earned or not, Zak doesn't have the strongest reputation so it shouldn't be surprising that there would be skeptical opinions expressed.

Is/ought fallacy.

It is normal and expected on the internet to accuse without proof. It doesn't make it right.

I'm saying the behavior is shitty, not unexpected.

Read the OP with a critical eye.  If it helps, imagine if RPGPundit had written it to some of his fans in regard to your blog and comments section. 

If I start handing out small baggies with powdered sugar to kids in the park then I fully expect there will be a lot of questions about it.  A lot of them will be hostile.

It's also worth pointing out that brigading here isn't just a hypothetical.  There have been attempts. 

I don't see eye to eye with you but I have always tried to be fair.  I don't have much of a dog in this but having looked closely at this thread, you did set yourself up for stepping in the cow pie.  Hells bells, dude, I want to see you doing better.  A little more diplomacy on your part could have helped immensely.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 01:36:44 PMNo one is calling for bad things to happen to him or for him to be silenced.  There are people he's developed a bit of a contentious relationship with though so that will come out.

I think that's disingenuous. Yes, I'm a noobie. But, just because people don't explicitly say "i want bad things to happen to Zak and I want him silenced" does not mean that they are not DOING exactly that by causing the actual damage of spreading misinformation.

QuoteIf you are a fan of his and his works, then by all means you are welcome here.  But the same freedom to laud him that you're give is also given to his critics.

It turns out, yes, I am a fan of his work. I have no problem with critics. Critics should discuss what they like and don't like about the games Zak makes. But, as soon as it turns into personal critique and opinion and misinformation based on THAT -- it becomes judgement. And that should be halted.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 01:55:19 PMRead the OP with a critical eye.  If it helps, imagine if RPGPundit had written it to some of his fans in regard to your blog and comments section. 

I always read with a critical eye so there was no need for you to do give this lil 101-level advice or assume I hadn't.

If Pundit had said that then--because I have a simple moderation policy and not a vague one designed to give me power--I would simply not care how many people were commenting or why as long as people were following the rules because the rules prevent shitty behavior.

QuoteIf I start handing out small baggies with powdered sugar to kids in the park then I fully expect there will be a lot of questions about it.  A lot of them will be hostile.

Again:

Is/ought fallacy.

The fact that shitty behavior is common and normal does not mean it's not shitty.

QuoteA little more diplomacy on your part could have helped immensely.

You're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying that pointing out bad things members of that forum do isn't a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem.  A lot of nerds seem to think I am trying to be their friend and failing rather than doing a thing that is in no-way-impeded by their pushback. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

As long as it's productive. I don't know about other places but Lotfp facebook looked pretty dead for months, now Jim sayid he's surprised how active it got. Sounds like a good change-inducing kick in the butt

Productive discussion is always good!

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:04:43 PMYou're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying pointing out bad things members of that forum do isnt' a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

Is your purpose to clearly communicate your thoughts or is it to throw thoughts out there so that you get a negative response? 

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:54:42 PMRepeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity.  That is literally what it means to say that.

Feel free to retract your statements if you are admitting that you were inaccurately using language and thus (inadvertently presumably) spreading misinformation.

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 02:20:16 PM"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity. 

not necessarily, depends on how "people" are being grouped.

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:04:43 PMYou're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying pointing out bad things members of that forum do isnt' a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

Is your purpose to clearly communicate your thoughts or is it to throw thoughts out there so that you get a negative response?

Leading question with unnecessarily limited options.

The purpose of my original message that the Pundit reprinted was to clearly lay out a contract with fans--which was clearly laid out to that audience.

The purpose of my conversation here afterward is to:

1-Correct misinformation for the benefit of third parties reading the thread
and
2-Clearly identify for third parties reading which members of the forum speaking are responsible for spreading misinformation or otherwise untrustworthy.

It looks as though you've made the naïve mistake of assuming that just because someone's messages are responses to you in a public place that the primary audience is you.

If you raise a concern, I'll address it--but not primarily for your benefit (I assume most people here will never ever admit to being persuaded of anything that doesn't fit their schtick). I am addressing it for the benefit of people who are reading the exchange but not participating.

Alternately, maybe you didn't make that mistake but--giving in to a common nerd tendency to try to exhibit superiority--your reaction to seeing your takeaway was wrong wasn't to go "Sorry I got that wrong" but instead to turn it around and go "You are bad at communication, that must be why I got it wrong". This is a common tactic.

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 02:20:16 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:54:42 PMRepeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity.  That is literally what it means to say that.

Feel free to retract your statements if you are admitting that you were inaccurately using language and thus (inadvertently presumably) spreading misinformation.

If you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

The evaluation of most nerds.
Somehow it sounds... so good in my head?

Anyway, I'm happy to read through Zak's clarifications.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:25:02 PMIf you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

The exact post I quoted originally, #223. But you know that. At this point the logical conclusion is that you are being disingenuous. As is your wont, it simply is a contradiction of your stated purpose.

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 02:46:32 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:25:02 PMIf you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

The exact post I quoted originally, #223. But you know that.

That's a lie, I don't memorize RPGsite post numbers and I don't believe you think I do.

QuoteAt this point the logical conclusion is that you are being disingenuous

It's never logical to assume wrongdoing without proof.

Anyway scrolling back to that post I say "Most people x" "Most people y"

And that was indeed imprecise.

I apologize if anyone took that information, assumed it was true, and made any bad decisions based on it.

What I should have wrote instead of "Most people" was "In my experience, most people in the online RPG community that I'm aware of..."

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify, I'll leave a note back at post #223 referencing this.

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 02:22:29 PMnot necessarily, depends on how "people" are being grouped.

If someone were grouping humanity in any way that categorized a large enough portion of the population as "not people" I would consider that a sociopathic thought process.

Assuming that's not what you meant, such a specific frame of reference would need to be indicated at least. That is not what happened in this context.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:52:13 PMThat's a lie, I don't memorize RPGsite post numbers.

Never claimed you did.

QuoteIt's never logical to assume wrongdoing without proof.

I agree, that's why I did not assume without proof, I posited a logical conclusion based on your responses. 

QuoteAnyway scrolling back to that post I say "Most people x" "Most people y"

And that was indeed imprecise.

I apologize if anyone took that information, assumed it was true, and made any bad decisions based on it.

What I should have wrote instead of "Most people" was "In my experience, most people in the online RPG community that I'm aware of..."

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify, I'll leave a note back at post #223 referencing this.

Fair enough.

QuoteNever claimed you did.

Then we disagree over the interpretation of your statement.

Since your statement is on this same page, anyone who needs to decide which of us is right (which I suspect is no-one) can look here and decide for themselves.

Quote

QuoteIt's never logical to assume wrongdoing without proof.

I agree, that's why I did not assume without proof, I posited a logical conclusion based on your responses.

State the proof that you used to come to this false conclusion.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 03:03:51 PMThen we disagree over the interpretation of your statement.

No, I literally never said anything of the sort. If you have to add words of your own invention to another person's statement to create the meaning of your interpretation, then your interpretation is false.

QuoteState the proof that you used to come to this false conclusion.

I'm not convinced that my conclusion was false yet, it was very clear how I came to it based on the exchange thus far. If you had simply replied with the apology and clarification you offered in your previous post, that would not have cast any doubts.

Not that it matters. I don't particularly care if you are being forthright and honest or not. I'm an infrequent poster here at best, and have no investment or interest in your reputation here, or the hobby at large, and I'm certainly not the target audience for any of your products. I simply fact-checked your statements, and it's good that you admitted to them being misleading. As far as I'm concerned that's the end of it.

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 04:11:54 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 03:03:51 PMThen we disagree over the interpretation of your statement.

No, I literally never said anything of the sort. If you have to add words of your own invention to another person's statement to create the meaning of your interpretation, then your interpretation is false.

There's no reason to keep typing. You'll never convince me, I will never convince you.

All the information necessary to evaluate your statement is on this same page. People can read your claim about what I know and decide for themselves if your veracity is something they care about (which I suspect they do not).

Quote

QuoteState the proof that you used to come to this false conclusion.

I'm not convinced that my conclusion was false yet, it was very clear...

You didn't post proof.

Case closed.

Yeah! I guess there's a lesson somewhere in here. I'm not sure what it is - probably something along the line of "be as clear as possible when talking to people because people can and will decide that you meant something else".
Story of my life.

The case does seem closed.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 23, 2024, 04:41:40 PMYeah! I guess there's a lesson somewhere in here. I'm not sure what it is - probably something along the line of "be as clear as possible when talking to people because people can and will decide that you meant something else".
Story of my life.

Nah.

If you are casual and assume a level of intelligence on the reader's part some people will misunderstand or use the inch to take a mile and pretend to misunderstand.

If you are artificially super-clear and assume nothing then some people will say you're autistic and/or have some sort of fetish for rigid speech (which is, in itself, a misinterpretation of intent).

Misinterpretation is inevitable, period. The best you can do is be as clear as possible and know that anyone of good will would directly locate you and ask for clarification if they think anything fishy is going on.

Damn if you do, damn if you dodn't.

Hi all.

My biggest take from Zak's original message is this one:

" There are a lot of you. You send messages of support, you ask for game stuff I make, you are lovely and-frankly-it's really hard to find you or talk to you."

It's not a marketing scheme, it's not a gimmick to place "wicked sleeper agents" to do his "underhanded bidding" nor is it to sabotage these communities. Far from it, his request is to simply ask people to engage and contribute to each of these websites which is what we, as gamers, do anyway. Does he want to have more non-overly judgmental people in these communities? Sure, who doesn't? I don't see what the issue is other than the skepticism around this thread.

Yeah, having nice people in the communities does help.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 23, 2024, 05:06:19 PMYeah, having nice people in the communities does help.

Oh, you must be new here.

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:58:41 PMBut, as soon as it turns into personal critique and opinion and misinformation based on THAT -- it becomes judgement. And that should be halted.

First... what?  Judgment is a vital part of human cognition.  Judgment is how our ancient ancestors decided whether to scurry up the tree when the grass started waving or whether it was just the wind.  Someone without the capacity for judgment would be completely incapable from telling truth from falsehood, believable from unbelievable.  So, I don't know what you are expecting here, but no one with any sense is going to stop judging everyone and everything.

Second, it is my sincerest hope that half of these new accounts are sock puppets (I have no proof of this, but I certainly hope they are).  Because, if you are actual people, you are the saddest, most pathetic group of followers I've ever experienced.  Seriously, there is no one, and I mean no one, in my 50+ years of life who I would simp for to the level that some of you have for Zack.  It's actually creepy, like cult-deprogramming-worthy creepy.  If you are what "non-judgmental" looks like... well, it's a good thing that most people are very judgmental...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 23, 2024, 09:29:10 PM

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:58:41 PMBut, as soon as it turns into personal critique and opinion and misinformation based on THAT -- it becomes judgement. And that should be halted.

First... what?  Judgment is a vital part of human cognition.  Judgment is how our ancient ancestors decided whether to scurry up the tree when the grass started waving or whether it was just the wind.  Someone without the capacity for judgment would be completely incapable from telling truth from falsehood, believable from unbelievable.  So, I don't know what you are expecting here, but no one with any sense is going to stop judging everyone and everything.

Second, it is my sincerest hope that half of these new accounts are sock puppets (I have no proof of this, but I certainly hope they are).  Because, if you are actual people, you are the saddest, most pathetic group of followers I've ever experienced.  Seriously, there is no one, and I mean no one, in my 50+ years of life who I would simp for to the level that some of you have for Zack.  It's actually creepy, like cult-deprogramming-worthy creepy.  If you are what "non-judgmental" looks like... well, it's a good thing that most people are very judgmental...

Greetings!

Hey there Eirikrautha! You know, something else I have noticed about some people. They conduct their social interactions and conversations like everyone involved is on trial in a court. That kind of legalistic approach to conversation and socializing to be eye-rollingly annoying, and kind of sad. Such an approach to socializing and conversation demonstrates a huge chip on their shoulder and likely long-standing social problems.

All of the yammering about "Misinformation" and calls to "Prove It!" or "You need to show evidence!" Blah Blah. No, people don't. The people yammering on like that can pound sound. Fucking conversations between people face to face or even here, especially online, are not college debates or episodes of fucking court trials. You know? It's like, Geesus, man. Get a life, and go outside and touch grass. *Laughing*

For myself, personally, whenever we are engaged in friendly conversations for example about History, or politics, political events, and the like, I don't mind posting some references and such in order to persuade or to make a solid argument. The yapping demands for "Proof" and "Evidence!" Geesh. That is so often just shreaking histrionics and a two-pronged attempt at one-upping themselves in the conversation, and otherwise seeking to manipulate and pollute the conversation into some legalistic debate. So tiresome. *Laughing*

And yeah, some of the new arrivals seem to be weird sycophantic cultists. *Laughing* My FRIENDS don't even simp like that--and they would actually suffer to help me.

All the crying about "You are so judgmental!" Yeah, that's right. People need to be judgmental. Our society is full of corrupted, narcissistic, entitled degenerates that don't believe they can be judged for anything, by anyone.

As you know, they are wrong. People judge others all the time for all kinds of things, and will continue to do so. Such is life.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:24:08 PM

Quote from: BadApple on December 23, 2024, 02:18:46 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:04:43 PMYou're weirdly assuming my goal is to be on good terms with bad actors. It's not.

The theme of "forum members saying pointing out bad things members of that forum do isnt' a good way to be friends with the forum members" is a repetitive and silly problem. The idea that someone might be typing not to make friends with you but rather to communicate a message of their own which they know you won't like but is important to communicate to others seems to fly over your head.

Is your purpose to clearly communicate your thoughts or is it to throw thoughts out there so that you get a negative response?

Leading question with unnecessarily limited options.

The purpose of my original message that the Pundit reprinted was to clearly lay out a contract with fans--which was clearly laid out to that audience.

The purpose of my conversation here afterward is to:

1-Correct misinformation for the benefit of third parties reading the thread
and
2-Clearly identify for third parties reading which members of the forum speaking are responsible for spreading misinformation or otherwise untrustworthy.

It looks as though you've made the naïve mistake of assuming that just because someone's messages are responses to you in a public place that the primary audience is you.

If you raise a concern, I'll address it--but not primarily for your benefit (I assume most people here will never ever admit to being persuaded of anything that doesn't fit their schtick). I am addressing it for the benefit of people who are reading the exchange but not participating.

Alternately, maybe you didn't make that mistake but--giving in to a common nerd tendency to try to exhibit superiority--your reaction to seeing your takeaway was wrong wasn't to go "Sorry I got that wrong" but instead to turn it around and go "You are bad at communication, that must be why I got it wrong". This is a common tactic.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 02:25:02 PM

Quote from: strollofturtle on December 23, 2024, 02:20:16 PM

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 01:54:42 PMRepeat:

QuoteYou'd have a point if I said "All nerds" rather than "nerds".

Again, saying "people go to Disneyland" does not imply all people do.

"Most people" does indeed imply more than half the population of humanity.  That is literally what it means to say that.

Feel free to retract your statements if you are admitting that you were inaccurately using language and thus (inadvertently presumably) spreading misinformation.

If you feel I made an inaccurate "most nerds" statement, you can quote it and I will evaluate it and see if I was imprecise.

AHAHAHAHAH!

This is too funny.  I wake up, have my morning cup of tea, and get the funniest unintentional comedy.

Quote from: SHARK on December 24, 2024, 12:39:42 AMHey there Eirikrautha! You know, something else I have noticed about some people. They conduct their social interactions and conversations like everyone involved is on trial in a court. That kind of legalistic approach to conversation and socializing to be eye-rollingly annoying, and kind of sad. Such an approach to socializing and conversation demonstrates a huge chip on their shoulder and likely long-standing social problems.

All of the yammering about "Misinformation" and calls to "Prove It!" or "You need to show evidence!" Blah Blah. No, people don't. The people yammering on like that can pound sound. Fucking conversations between people face to face or even here, especially online, are not college debates or episodes of fucking court trials. You know? It's like, Geesus, man. Get a life, and go outside and touch grass. *Laughing*

Hey Shark, I understand where you're coming from, but there's an important point to consider in this context. This isn't about abstract debates or theoretical constructs—it's about real consequences on someone's life. In this case, Zak's reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

There's proof that these claims were unfounded, yet some people still perpetuate the lies without acknowledging the truth that's come to light over time. Setting the record straight isn't about being overly legalistic—it's about correcting falsehoods and restoring fairness, even when it's a hard pill for some to swallow.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 23, 2024, 09:29:10 PM

Quote from: katiefol on December 23, 2024, 01:58:41 PMBut, as soon as it turns into personal critique and opinion and misinformation based on THAT -- it becomes judgement. And that should be halted.

First... what?  Judgment is a vital part of human cognition.  Judgment is how our ancient ancestors decided whether to scurry up the tree when the grass started waving or whether it was just the wind.  Someone without the capacity for judgment would be completely incapable from telling truth from falsehood, believable from unbelievable.  So, I don't know what you are expecting here, but no one with any sense is going to stop judging everyone and everything.

Second, it is my sincerest hope that half of these new accounts are sock puppets (I have no proof of this, but I certainly hope they are).  Because, if you are actual people, you are the saddest, most pathetic group of followers I've ever experienced.  Seriously, there is no one, and I mean no one, in my 50+ years of life who I would simp for to the level that some of you have for Zack.  It's actually creepy, like cult-deprogramming-worthy creepy.  If you are what "non-judgmental" looks like... well, it's a good thing that most people are very judgmental...

If you read my post, I mentioned "overly judgmental". That means not devoid of judgement completely but judging without proof or reasoning. Further, the level of militant labeling is off the charts. Guys, you have nothing to fear. 😄

- General Sock Puppet.

Quote from: Zak S on December 23, 2024, 04:19:36 PMThere's no reason to keep typing. You'll never convince me, I will never convince you.

Facts don't require convincing, but feel free to deny them if you like.

QuoteYou didn't post proof.

Of course not, you did. I simply judged what you posted.

Quote from: dvar on December 24, 2024, 05:07:30 AMHey Shark, I understand where you're coming from, but there's an important point to consider in this context. This isn't about abstract debates or theoretical constructs—it's about real consequences on someone's life. In this case, Zak's reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

No, Zak's own online behaviour, in the past and currently in this thread, on his own blog and in others, does enough to drag his name through the mud without any of the court-case-related drama or the references to his lifestyle.

After nearly 400 posts on this thread, my conclusion from early this year remains unshaken:

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 02, 2024, 11:42:42 AMAt this point, I think the only thing to do with Zak is to commend him to the Divine Mercy.

I do not understand the relationship between this thread and the topic of the forum (Pen and paper RPG discussion?)... never mind...

Quote from: dvar on December 24, 2024, 05:07:30 AMIn this case, [shitmuffin]'s reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

Shitmuffin is a shit designer and a degenerate, arrogant asshole. That's not "misinformation," that's the fucking truth.

If you believe otherwise, I'm going to assume you're either shitmuffin himself, a sock puppet, or a sycophantic jackass whose opinion isn't worth the time it takes to read -- so don't bother replying.

One thing Zak seemed to imply that I think he's wrong about is the suggestion that most gamers think he's doing something "for the money".

I often get accused of that (which is at most a distortion of the truth: I do make game products hoping to make money from them, but I've never made a product I didn't myself like for money), but Zak? I'll assume some people have made that claim, but personally I've heard far more people claim that Zak is some kind of "trust fund baby" than that Zak is in RPGs for cash.

But I think that most people I've run into who've heard of Zak think he's very much in it for his reputation, for his self-image, a belief that is reflected even by some posts in this thread. I've heard far more people saying that Zak is desperate to be seen as some kind of avant-garde great innovative thinker & artist, and to be admired by the kind of people who tend to admire that archetype. That he may or may not need money, but what he's really longing to achieve is respectabilite from exactly the demographic that instead fall for some of the very lefty-progressive "game designers" that have attacked and cancelled him over and over again through the years, and who lump him in with the "yr right wing bs" based people he so obviously looks down upon.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 12:07:39 AMOne thing Zak seemed to imply that I think he's wrong about is the suggestion that most gamers think he's doing something "for the money".

I often get accused of that (which is at most a distortion of the truth: I do make game products hoping to make money from them, but I've never made a product I didn't myself like for money), but Zak? I'll assume some people have made that claim, but personally I've heard far more people claim that Zak is some kind of "trust fund baby" than that Zak is in RPGs for cash.

But I think that most people I've run into who've heard of Zak think he's very much in it for his reputation, for his self-image, a belief that is reflected even by some posts in this thread. I've heard far more people saying that Zak is desperate to be seen as some kind of avant-garde great innovative thinker & artist, and to be admired by the kind of people who tend to admire that archetype. That he may or may not need money, but what he's really longing to achieve is respectabilite from exactly the demographic that instead fall for some of the very lefty-progressive "game designers" that have attacked and cancelled him over and over again through the years, and who lump him in with the "yr right wing bs" based people he so obviously looks down upon.

These theories are as ignorant as the theory i want money. And based on the same childish idea that somebody else's life has a lot to do with -you- the RPG people and some perception they want out of -you- rather than stuff that makes sense in their own life in a fairly ordinary way.

Anyone paying attention would realize i just want people the RPG community to stop smearing me and making up conspiracy theories about me (like the trust fund one, for example).

Now if you'll excuse me its Christmas Eve and i gotta watch Nosferatu.

Quote from: Zak S on December 25, 2024, 12:23:10 AMAnyone paying attention would realize i just want people the RPG community to stop smearing me and making up conspiracy theories about me (like the trust fund one, for example).

Zak S one day found a genie lamp and rubbed it.  Out came the genie and offered him wishes.

"For my first wish I would like a highway to Mars," requested Zak.  "I always wanted to visit and becoming an astronaut seems like too much of an ordeal so I would just like to drive there."

The genie was thoughtfully silent for a moment before responding.

"This would require I rewrite the laws of physics and cause untold side effects with dire consequences.  In fact, it may well be beyond my ability.  Do you have another wish?"

Zak immediately responded with "I just want people in the RPG community to stop smearing me and making up conspiracy theories about me."

The genie gave a heavy sigh.

"This highway, do you want two lanes or four?"

Quote from: dvar on December 24, 2024, 05:07:30 AMZak's reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

In defamation law, there's a finding called "contextual truth." That is, one or more of the imputations may in fact be defamatory, but they're found to be of no effect in law since the other stuff we know to be true is so awful anyway. For example, there was a soldier Ben Roberts-Smith who, newspapers alleged, had abused his mistress and committed war crimes. The court found that it was proven on the balance of probabilities that he had committed at least some of the alleged war crimes, but that it was not proven that he'd abused his mistress. However, no damages was awarded for the unproven allegation, since the other allegations being proven simply dwarfed it. Once it was proven he'd kicked a bound man off a cliff and then followed him down and shot him, then souvenired his prosthetic leg for a drinking vessel, the story that he'd slapped around a mistress couldn't make him look any worse.

I've no interest in the details of the particular case of this guy under discussion in this thread. I haven't read it, and I don't care if he actually did any of the awful things he was accused of. But what I can say is that the reason I have no interest is that my opinion of the guy was already so low, it couldn't get any lower. That's why I didn't bother looking into it.

Whereas if, say, Pundit had been accused of some awful things I'd be curious. I think generally well of him, and if he were accused of some awful crime, I'd be interested to know whether it looked like he'd actually done it.

There was a time when saying someone was a promiscuous pornographer who uses illicit drugs would have been defamatory. It would be thought to make them look bad. But this is behaviour the guy under discussion readily admits to, and is indeed proud of. I already thought he was scum. My opinion didn't get any worse when I heard the allegations.

This is the problem with living a morally defunct lifestyle. This is why the defamatory imputations were dangerous to him - because they were believable. I think it's better to live a life where people don't think you're scum, and where if something awful is said about you, people say, "Him? Surely not!" rather than, snort and say, "Figures."

Quote from: dvar on December 24, 2024, 05:07:30 AMThere's an important point to consider in this context. This isn't about abstract debates or theoretical constructs—it's about real consequences on someone's life. In this case, Zak's reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

There's proof that these claims were unfounded, yet some people still perpetuate the lies without acknowledging the truth that's come to light over time. Setting the record straight isn't about being overly legalistic—it's about correcting falsehoods and restoring fairness, even when it's a hard pill for some to swallow.

This is my understanding of the situation too, dvar.
I read all the paperwork. It's quite conclusive.

It's also very obvious that Zak is being targeted for harassment, as are anyone who supports him, by people who bring nothing else whatsoever to the online rpg community apart from intentional malice.

Zak has been on the defensive arguing for peace, truth, justice. He deserves respect for that.

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 25, 2024, 06:48:52 AMZak has been on the defensive arguing for peace, truth, justice. He deserves respect for that.

Bullshit

He's no more tormented than any other but he has married being an insufferable prick to a persecution complex in a cocktail of unpleasantness that other's despise him for.

So he got hit in the "me too" movement.  So did lots of other guys.  There was no real evidence against him other than accusations, the same as every other high profile case like his.  (Weinstein case not withstanding, most of the high profile cases have been proven to be fraud.)  He was a big time supporter of the cancel culture and "believe all women" movement he got bit in the balls by.  He's a victim of the shit he was trying to do to others.  No one on this site cares.

I don't see him taking any responsibility for his actions.  I don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.  I don't see him trying to get along with those that didn't try to cancel him.  I don't see him trying to be a decent human to those I see him interact with.

Here, those that don't like him do so not because he got accused of something but because he insults and condescends everyone that doesn't figuratively felate him.  His own behavior in this thread is all the evidence of this I will need. 

Quote from: Zak S on December 25, 2024, 12:23:10 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 12:07:39 AMOne thing Zak seemed to imply that I think he's wrong about is the suggestion that most gamers think he's doing something "for the money".

I often get accused of that (which is at most a distortion of the truth: I do make game products hoping to make money from them, but I've never made a product I didn't myself like for money), but Zak? I'll assume some people have made that claim, but personally I've heard far more people claim that Zak is some kind of "trust fund baby" than that Zak is in RPGs for cash.

But I think that most people I've run into who've heard of Zak think he's very much in it for his reputation, for his self-image, a belief that is reflected even by some posts in this thread. I've heard far more people saying that Zak is desperate to be seen as some kind of avant-garde great innovative thinker & artist, and to be admired by the kind of people who tend to admire that archetype. That he may or may not need money, but what he's really longing to achieve is respectabilite from exactly the demographic that instead fall for some of the very lefty-progressive "game designers" that have attacked and cancelled him over and over again through the years, and who lump him in with the "yr right wing bs" based people he so obviously looks down upon.

These theories are as ignorant as the theory i want money. And based on the same childish idea that somebody else's life has a lot to do with -you- the RPG people and some perception they want out of -you- rather than stuff that makes sense in their own life in a fairly ordinary way.

Anyone paying attention would realize i just want people the RPG community to stop smearing me and making up conspiracy theories about me (like the trust fund one, for example).

Now if you'll excuse me its Christmas Eve and i gotta watch Nosferatu.

No, sorry, one thing I've never been the slightest bit concerned with is having the trendy lefty pretentious twats giving a damn about me, right from the very start when I called them all Swine. Your argument is absurd. If I was you, I'd probably call it a lie. But somewhere along my educational path I learned the difference between opinion (however self-serving and misguided) and lies. I figure you probably desperately want to believe what you said, as part of your ongoing self-image triage, and you aren't actually saying something you consciously know to be untrue.

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.  I don't see him trying to get along with those that didn't try to cancel him. 

This.

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

Quote from: PsyClops on December 25, 2024, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXi7yDHyWo&pp=ygUfYnJpdHRhbnkgc3BlYXJzIGxlYXZlIGhlciBhbG9uZQ%3D%3D

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 10:06:43 AMNo, sorry, one thing I've never been the slightest bit concerned with is having the trendy lefty pretentious twats giving a damn about me, right from the very start when I called them all Swine.

Oink oink!

But more on point.

QuoteI'll assume some people have made that claim, but personally I've heard far more people claim that Zak is some kind of "trust fund baby" than that Zak is in RPGs for cash.

One could argue those are not even mutually exclusive but that doesn't really matter. People are idiots. Believing in two mutually exclusive things is what they do all the time, I won't go into political examples though they're the ones that can be clearly seen. But without politics, just looking at Zak's case again - people proclaim "I believe women!" until a woman says "you're wrong, I was there and I saw what really happened", then those same people go "lol you're a stupid bitch I don't have to listen to you". Happens all the time. I'm sure you saw it more often than I did.

Quote from: dvar on December 24, 2024, 05:07:30 AM

Quote from: SHARK on December 24, 2024, 12:39:42 AMHey there Eirikrautha! You know, something else I have noticed about some people. They conduct their social interactions and conversations like everyone involved is on trial in a court. That kind of legalistic approach to conversation and socializing to be eye-rollingly annoying, and kind of sad. Such an approach to socializing and conversation demonstrates a huge chip on their shoulder and likely long-standing social problems.

All of the yammering about "Misinformation" and calls to "Prove It!" or "You need to show evidence!" Blah Blah. No, people don't. The people yammering on like that can pound sound. Fucking conversations between people face to face or even here, especially online, are not college debates or episodes of fucking court trials. You know? It's like, Geesus, man. Get a life, and go outside and touch grass. *Laughing*

Hey Shark, I understand where you're coming from, but there's an important point to consider in this context. This isn't about abstract debates or theoretical constructs—it's about real consequences on someone's life. In this case, Zak's reputation was unjustly dragged through the mud based on misinformation spread by bad actors, and it's had a tangible, damaging impact.

There's proof that these claims were unfounded, yet some people still perpetuate the lies without acknowledging the truth that's come to light over time. Setting the record straight isn't about being overly legalistic—it's about correcting falsehoods and restoring fairness, even when it's a hard pill for some to swallow.

Greetings!

Hello, Dvar!

Yes, well, if someone is talking *specifically* about some court-related issue and legal charges, then what you are saying may be relevant.

The problem here for Zak is, as I have seen in nearly all of the commentary in this thread--is that no one is talking about Zak's BS court drama with his porn star girlfriends. No one here gives a damn about any of that at the end of the day. I suspect that most members here never bought into the BS court nonsense and "allegations". Why? Well, for one thing, everyone here has likely been married, some divorced, and virtually all here are quite familiar with the hazards and ordeals involved when engaging in relationships with women.

Toss porn-star skank women into the mix, and the drugs, mentally-damaged attributes of moron Leftists, and you can dial all that BS drama up to 11.

Personally, as I stated long ago when this BS unfolded, I don't care, it's none of my business. What *exactly* went on between Zak and his porn-star girlfriend is strictly their business and no one else's business, unless the police become involved, and a court of law. Then, everything in Zak's specific relationships also becomes the business of the police and the court.

What has destroyed Zak's reputation for many in the gaming hobby, and particularly members of this site, has everything to do with his fucking moron Leftist politics and ideology, his degenerate, immoral, and disgusting lifestyle, his narcissistic, entitled, and arrogant demeanor, and his condescending and smarmy attitudes and interactions with people in the hobby, online, and here on this site.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quick question, would you rather be in the RPG hobby with people who are arrogant and condescending, or ones who are shy, insecure and forever terrified of hurting anyone's feelings?

Quote from: Xaxus on December 25, 2024, 04:49:54 PMQuick question, would you rather be in the RPG hobby with people who are arrogant and condescending, or ones who are shy, insecure and forever terrified of hurting anyone's feelings?

I'd rather reject your pointless binary hypothetical and get on with playing games.

Quote from: PsyClops on December 25, 2024, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

But the people who organized the cancellation of Zak were of a specific ideology. They were woke leftists, 3rd wave feminists who hate porn, and totalitarian censors.

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: PsyClops on December 25, 2024, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXi7yDHyWo&pp=ygUfYnJpdHRhbnkgc3BlYXJzIGxlYXZlIGhlciBhbG9uZQ%3D%3D

Do NOT put blind links to videos. This is your one warning about that.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 25, 2024, 03:52:36 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 10:06:43 AMI'll assume some people have made that claim, but personally I've heard far more people claim that Zak is some kind of "trust fund baby" than that Zak is in RPGs for cash.

One could argue those are not even mutually exclusive but that doesn't really matter. People are idiots. Believing in two mutually exclusive things is what they do all the time, I won't go into political examples though they're the ones that can be clearly seen. But without politics, just looking at Zak's case again - people proclaim "I believe women!" until a woman says "you're wrong, I was there and I saw what really happened", then those same people go "lol you're a stupid bitch I don't have to listen to you". Happens all the time. I'm sure you saw it more often than I did.

It certainly is the case with me: my haters have the most rabid derangement syndrome in the world, and I've seen the same person claim I live off inherited wealth (not true, I took a page from Ozymandias and refused my family inheritance when I was 18), and that I'm actually hopelessly poor and lying about my success in RPG sales (also not true, I probably couldn't claim RPGs made me 'rich', but they afford me a very comfortable lifestyle and let me buy my own home).

Quote from: Xaxus on December 25, 2024, 04:49:54 PMQuick question, would you rather be in the RPG hobby with people who are arrogant and condescending, or ones who are shy, insecure and forever terrified of hurting anyone's feelings?

I would like to have an RPG hobby with people who don't support censorship. Especially people so retardedly narcissistic that they support censorship after they themselves were censored (and only believe they personally should never be censored).

Sounds good to me. I like it when there's a clear line between editing and censorship, and everyone keeps that line in mind.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 05:49:01 PMBut the people who organized the cancellation of Zak were of a specific ideology. They were woke leftists, 3rd wave feminists who hate porn, and totalitarian censors.

Those are the bad guys. For those same reasons. Bad guys who think they're the good guys.

Humanitarianism does not lie. Humanitarianism does not persecute people. Humanitarianism asks to see evidence before behaving.

Quote from: Zak S on December 15, 2024, 05:35:46 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2024, 05:29:18 PM

Quote from: GnosticGoblin on December 15, 2024, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit...posting to specific internet sites (some of which he declared as "hostile")

Zak has been 100% accurate about that so far

How is he designating hostile? Does he just mean "there are people there who don't like me"?

As I've said probably dozens of times:

It's hostile because people can freely post misinformation here and they are not held accountable for it.

He has a point there: I've seen Zak do that here in his defense of cheating someone out of his money.  And he still is free to post.

Guess I have a different idea about what constitutes cheating someone out of his money. My version involves cheating.

That's true, "stealing" is probably the more accurate word in this instance, given that he was paid to provide work, didn't provide it, and kept the money, with the justification that the person didn't come demanding it from him so that made it okay.  I'm unsure whether the victim in such a scenario is actually required to specifically request that the other party return their money before it becomes theft, but I am not a lawyer so perhaps Zak is correct here and is totally in the clear with the money he never returned.

No idea whatsoever, if it was my money I'd be all over him, saying "dude, can I have my money back?", and probably post all over the internet. I have so many stories. But whatever, not my circus, not my monkeys, there probably were reasons.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 23, 2024, 09:57:52 AMIf you gave money to someone you know and you want the money back, it's easy to make noise about it. If you don't want to put on your big boy pants and make noise, eh, it's your dollar and you decide how badly you want it. It's a dog-eat-dog economy but it works.

He wasn't given money.  He was paid money to do a job.  He refused to do the job and kept the money.  You are trying to blame this on the person who got ripped off because I he didn't make more noise about how he was ripped off or try harder to get his money back.

Quote from: Xaxus on December 25, 2024, 09:12:37 PMGuess I have a different idea about what constitutes cheating someone out of his money. My version involves cheating.

Cheating.  Conning.  Defrauding.  Whatever you want to call it, it's the same thing.  You are really trying to justify someone taking money and then refusing to do the work while keeping the money.  You are an utter assclown. 

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 25, 2024, 05:49:47 PM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: PsyClops on December 25, 2024, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXi7yDHyWo&pp=ygUfYnJpdHRhbnkgc3BlYXJzIGxlYXZlIGhlciBhbG9uZQ%3D%3D

Do NOT put blind links to videos. This is your one warning about that.

I apologize.  My post didn't go as planned.  I wanted it to look like this but something went awry:

Quote from: PsyClops on December 25, 2024, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: BadApple on December 25, 2024, 07:28:41 AMI don't see him disavowing the ideology he was a part of that did this to him.

As soon as someone makes something up regardless of ideology, they have become a part of the hatemob.

1615300740153.png

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 25, 2024, 05:05:30 PM

Quote from: Xaxus on December 25, 2024, 04:49:54 PMQuick question, would you rather be in the RPG hobby with people who are arrogant and condescending, or ones who are shy, insecure and forever terrified of hurting anyone's feelings?

I'd rather reject your pointless binary hypothetical and get on with playing games.

Agreed